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Evil Mastermind posted:I like how everyone is bringing up lame JLA characters but nobody mentions or remembers Faith. This is crazy. I picked up Obsidian Age way back when randomly and enjoyed it enough, but remember Faith as being a weird idea even then. I'm shocked to hear anything was done with her after.
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Nov 5, 2013 20:59
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d00gZ posted:The first bunch of those were all while Jurgens was on JLA, dude.
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Nov 5, 2013 21:07
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Evil Mastermind posted:I like how everyone is bringing up lame JLA characters but nobody mentions or remembers Faith. Oh god I remember this crap why did you have to remind me?
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Nov 5, 2013 21:11
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Evil Mastermind posted:
Story checks out. The JLA is always tough to handle because the number of big guns on the team is directly proportional to the amount of significant, status-quo-altering nonsense that's going on in those characters' solo titles. I'm lending a friend of mine JLA one volume at a time, and I'm constantly having to fill in little bits of background as to why Superman is electric now or why Wonder Woman's been mysteriously replaced by her mother between issues. And that's only even an issue because the book actually bothers to do it the hard way and respect those changes, almost as and when they happen.
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Nov 5, 2013 23:30
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Bobulus posted:I forget, have we talked about Animal Man, yet? The first two were from Peter Milligan's four issue mini run and it was actually really good. He came pretty close to Morrison in his weirdness quotient. The others were stupid. though, and they couldn't get buddy's relatively simple voice right. I think I've heard that end of pre-new-52 animal man comics Buddy's lost hus body, become a tiger lobster eagle man and has a cult worshipping as an animal god. Whatever happened, it wad ignored when he reappeared in 52, I don't think they want anyone to talk about it.
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Nov 6, 2013 00:23
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How do you talk about Kelly's run and not mention MANITOU? Also asked to be a member of the team for no reason (after having killed the Justice League the first time)
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Nov 6, 2013 00:23
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E the Shaggy posted:How do you talk about Kelly's run and not mention MANITOU? Don't get me wrong, I liked the arc and would love a "historical Bronze Age superteam" comic, but again, there was no reason for him (and his wife) to come to to the future or join the team apart from Kelley apparently wanting to jam in new characters in prep for Justice League XXXTREEEEMEEE.
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Nov 6, 2013 00:27
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Sorry, Obsidian Age was the greatest long form Superfriends joke ever written. Manitou Raven was okay.
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Nov 6, 2013 00:29
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I had forgotten how many times they killed off Aquaman during that time. 3?
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Nov 6, 2013 00:29
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Also Justice League Elite was cool because from the beginning you could see how 90'S XTREME black ops League could never work but all the characters involved try and make it work 100 percent. You can do a hell of a lot worse with comics than Kelley's JLA.
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Nov 6, 2013 00:34
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Mr. Maltose posted:Sorry, Obsidian Age was the greatest long form Superfriends joke ever written. Manitou Raven was okay. I think Manitou Raven was originally going to be Super-Chief. Honestly, I don't really mind Kelly's JLA. It's not as good as the Morrison or Waid, but there's been worse takes on the team.
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Nov 6, 2013 00:58
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Mr. Maltose posted:You can do a hell of a lot worse with comics than Kelley's JLA. e: Metal Loaf posted:I think Manitou Raven was originally going to be Super-Chief.
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Nov 6, 2013 00:59
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What's with all the hate for Joe Kelly's JLA? Honestly, I thought he incredibly capably continued the tradition Morrison and Waid had set up. There were a number of great arcs in that book. Sure, he had pet characters, but he was writing loving JLA, pet characters is sort of a requirement since you can't do too much with Superman in that book (usually, unless you're Geoff Johns and it's the New 52).
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Nov 6, 2013 01:09
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In the Obsidian Age trades, Kelley cops that the entire storyline was thought up so he could make the Inuk-chuk joke.
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Nov 6, 2013 01:10
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Also he wrote Batman and Wonder Woman as adorably awkward teenagers who wanted to make out SO BAD. And his Plastic Man character arc ruled.
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Nov 6, 2013 01:14
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I've also quite enjoy what I've read, which admittedly isn't a huge amount, of Kelly's run on X-Men post-"Operation: Zero Tolerance" (though you might as well call it the Kelly/Seagle run, given how closely intertwined it was with UXM while Seagle was writing it at the same time). It's an overlooked period in the X-Men's history but I think it stands up to some of the post-Heroes Reborn relaunches that were happening concurrently. Same deal with the subsequent Alan Davis run on both of the main X books; overlooked but perhaps underrated.
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Nov 6, 2013 01:33
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I loved all of Kelly's run on JLA. Okay the the arc about Wonder Woman's lasso breaking wasn't great, nor was the issue where Lex Luthor was used as a strawman for the Bush administration and the War on Iraq. But the rest was great, from the Obsidian Age and the replacement JLA (yes, even Faith) to the Fernus Arc to the Justice League Elite arc. (The annual where Flash moves so fast that he is literally in two places at once is an amazing scene of wonder. Also, it's a story arc with the good Batgirl in it. Squeee!), I loved it all. And it features the Batman/Plastic Man story which has, hands down, one of the most inspirational things I've ever seen written in the speech between Batman and Plastic Man. A speech that I have, completely unironically, used twice in real life to my different groups of friends to great effect. That gives me an idea for what I need to post in the inspirational panels thread.
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Nov 6, 2013 02:06
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Oh please do. It's been ages since I've read that and my memory says it's worth remembering.
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Nov 6, 2013 02:08
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Man, I loved Kelly's JLA just for the Obsidian Age issue where the JLA's "death" causes a bunch of little spheres with a Bat-logo on them to recruit new members and Mister Terrific sees them when they recruit a JSA member and someone asks him if he's okay (having just learned that the JLA is dead) and he says "Are you kidding? Batman thought the design of my T-Spheres was good enough to steal. I'm fantastic!" I thought the Obsidian Age was a lot of fun, myself, though the quality of Kelly's run did decline, I grant. The Kelly/Seagle issues of X-Men are a whole different type of Worst Run, because they left the books over editorial interference, meaning all the setup they were doing ended up wasted.
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Nov 6, 2013 02:08
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mind the walrus posted:Oh please do. It's been ages since I've read that and my memory says it's worth remembering. I'll post the pics tomorrow, but off the top of my head the line is something like "Eel, I always thought that you would have made the best parent. Because out of all of us, including Clark, you wouldn't have spent your days telling your children that you loved them. You'd show them!" I'll find the exact quote, since it was way more eloquent then how I'm putting it, but I'm getting the gist of it across.
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Nov 6, 2013 02:46
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Not to mention Kelley not only wrote an arc that asks "So, we've had Superman going over the line and Batman going over the line. What if Martian Manhunter went too far?" but answers it with Plastic Man being both an excellent father and the savior of the world. Kelley did great work with most of the JLA roster, but his Plastic Man is wonderful.
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Nov 6, 2013 03:19
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I've never read Kelly's JLA, but how was it with Major Disaster on the team? I always liked him in the Injustice League during Giffen and DeMatteis' JLI run, as an unlucky working stiff with no grand plans to take over the world or murder people left and right. I was impressed that a writer actually gave a villain actually try to reform and join the big guns, rather than becoming a Suicide Squad member or a morally ambiguous antihero like Catwoman, The Shade, and most of the Secret Six. Did that work out well? I'd have to guess some later writer undid any positive progress the good Major may have made, but I'm not sure.
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Nov 6, 2013 04:17
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IIRC Major Disaster was barely used in JLA proper and was shunted over to JL:E, which I didn't read for various reasons.
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Nov 6, 2013 04:20
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He was pretty cool, and was pretty low key and sincere in wanting to do good. He was in the ill fated Elite team and ended up retiring from super heroics after that all went to hell. Of course he was then killed in Infinite Crisis. It's kind of cool how Kelley's JLA has a sort of "overarch" about how heroes should be heroes that sort of starts in What's Wrong About Truth Justice and The American Way.
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Nov 6, 2013 04:26
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Metal Loaf posted:I've also quite enjoy what I've read, which admittedly isn't a huge amount, of Kelly's run on X-Men post-"Operation: Zero Tolerance" (though you might as well call it the Kelly/Seagle run, given how closely intertwined it was with UXM while Seagle was writing it at the same time). It's an overlooked period in the X-Men's history but I think it stands up to some of the post-Heroes Reborn relaunches that were happening concurrently. Well there is a thread about underrated runs and stories... Like I said over in that thread I really like the road trip arc in X-Force that was happening around the same time. Good, goofy fun with at least two really nice one-off issues: the Burning Man one and the issue with the government cover up town in New Mexico. The latter was a fill-in issue written by Joseph Harris and I remember hearing good things about his Fury of Firestorm run on here after Simone/Van Sciver left. Well until DC decided that the best idea to revitalize the book was move away from the interesting "Firestorm as a metaphor for nuclear proliferation" approach and go with Dan "Blandest Writer In Comics" Jurgens. The Simone/EVS Fury of Firestorm run with its hamfisted liberal vs. conservative set up could probably go in here from everything I've heard/seen about it.
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Nov 6, 2013 04:32
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Evil Mastermind posted:I was going to mention him in my post, actually, but I didn't want to get into the details of Obsidian Age. 2) Kelly's JLE run is even better.
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Nov 6, 2013 05:19
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Suben posted:It really seems like, just by the line up, it would've been better served being called the Global Guardians but there's no way you're going to sell books with that name.
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Nov 7, 2013 00:32
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:There was also a bullshit storyline about Power Girl's mystical pregnancy, back when she was wearing a completely different white, red, and blue costume with a headband.
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Nov 7, 2013 06:17
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NorgLyle posted:For some reason I thought she was in her gold and white turtleneck costume during the pregnancy storyline? I haven't read those issues in years though and I guess all I'm really saying is that Power Girl has had some really terrible costumes over the years. She really did, although I loved Amanda Conner's updated version of her classic costume, and Sami Basri and Warren Louw also drew it well. But at some point after Gerard Jones took over Justice League Europe (post-Giffen/DeMatteis, when I stopped paying attention), she switched from the horrible gold and white outfit to the slightly less horrible but still not great "workout gear" with the headband.
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Nov 7, 2013 06:36
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It's well worn ground, but the worst for me is Jeph Loeb who got me to entirely quit reading the Ultimate line.Mr Wind Up Bird posted:I was going to dig up my copies of Batman 579-581 but apparently they are so bad I've hid them from myself.
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Nov 8, 2013 17:24
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Halloween Jack posted:It's well worn ground, but the worst for me is Jeph Loeb who got me to entirely quit reading the Ultimate line. Are you reading Ultimate Spider-man? That comic has always been amazing. The worst runs in Ultimates other than Loeb is all the X-men runs between Vaughn and Woods. These runs introduced awful stupid characters that no one liked. The plots made no sense and also the characters acted completly out of character. There is also plots that went no where and was just poo poo tossed on the wall and never solved.
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Nov 8, 2013 17:29
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bobkatt013 posted:Are you reading Ultimate Spider-man? That comic has always been amazing. The worst runs in Ultimates other than Loeb is all the X-men runs between Vaughn and Woods. These runs introduced awful stupid characters that no one liked. The plots made no sense and also the characters acted completly out of character. There is also plots that went no where and was just poo poo tossed on the wall and never solved. While Bendis' run on UXM was okay, Finch's art was downright ugly so I am going to throw that in there too. Strangely enough UXM never seemed good to me after Millar left (and reading Millar's old issues makes me feel like it wasn't that good to begin with). When you look at the talent involved in UXM it is really baffling how bad to mediocre it all was.
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Nov 8, 2013 17:45
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Madkal posted:While Bendis' run on UXM was okay, Finch's art was downright ugly so I am going to throw that in there too. Strangely enough UXM never seemed good to me after Millar left (and reading Millar's old issues makes me feel like it wasn't that good to begin with). When you look at the talent involved in UXM it is really baffling how bad to mediocre it all was. The Vaughn run was pretty good other than the Gambit two parter. Who would have thought that Chuck Austen would be one of the few that gets the character? I really did not mind the Bendis run and the Wolverine and the cave issue is one of the best Ultimate X-men issues.
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Nov 8, 2013 17:49
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I can't stand anything Spider-Man related anymore. Okay, I have a candidate, which may or may not be controversial. Damion Scott's entire run on Batgirl as a penciler. The entire appeal of Cassandra Cain is that she is a Kung Fu Batgirl. Her book was drawn by a guy who seems like he has never seen a fight or a martial arts movie in his life. Every single fight scene looks like this:    Every time Batgirl and Shiva fight, they do simultaneous flying kicks, try to stab each other with their fingertips, and do outlandish goofy poo poo like "grab your fingers, bend you over backwards, elbow drop to stomach." It is so terrible. There are a lot of artists who can't draw a fight scene in a genre about fights; would it kill them to take some screencaps of a movie or check out a martial arts book from a public library?
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Nov 8, 2013 17:51
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Halloween Jack posted:I can't stand anything Spider-Man related anymore.
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Nov 8, 2013 17:58
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Is Shiva actually Plastic Man? 
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Nov 8, 2013 18:01
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bobkatt013 posted:Are you reading Ultimate Spider-man? That comic has always been amazing. The worst runs in Ultimates other than Loeb is all the X-men runs between Vaughn and Woods. These runs introduced awful stupid characters that no one liked. The plots made no sense and also the characters acted completly out of character. There is also plots that went no where and was just poo poo tossed on the wall and never solved. I think Robert Kirkman's run was where I checked out. He's the one who decided Ultimate Nightcrawler would be a colossal homophobe sort of out of the blue (heh) and revealed Ultimate Beast was only slightly crushed to death by falling rubble, wasn't he? It wasn't a gradual thing, either, the downturn was like going over a cliff. Then again, I don't think I've re-read it since it was published, which must have been nearly ten years ago, so perhaps I'm misremembering it.
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Nov 8, 2013 18:40
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Metal Loaf posted:I think Robert Kirkman's run was where I checked out. He's the one who decided Ultimate Nightcrawler would be a colossal homophobe sort of out of the blue (heh) and revealed Ultimate Beast was only slightly crushed to death by falling rubble, wasn't he? It wasn't a gradual thing, either, the downturn was like going over a cliff. Yep Kirkman was the one who did all that. His run was bad, but the one that followed was worse. They decided to let one of Loeb's lackies write it and it was horrible.
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Nov 8, 2013 18:42
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You know a comic series has been plagued by awful runs when it's Mark loving Millar you look to as the benchmark of quality.
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Nov 8, 2013 19:09
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mind the walrus posted:You know a comic series has been plagued by awful runs when it's Mark loving Millar you look to as the benchmark of quality. See also The Ultimates.
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Nov 8, 2013 19:10
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