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Chin Strap posted:What do you do about treats with no calories listed? We are trying to clicker train our new dog, but kibble only works so well. We are using hot dogs for the really high value treat, but we have some dog biscuits as well. The biscuits don't have calories listed, so I don't know how much to alter the kibble for the day in response. What cryingscarf said, and I'll also add that the most common amount for chihuahuas I see at my doggy daycare is 1/4 cup (and most of them don't even finish that)
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Oct 31, 2013 03:31
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Psychobabble! posted:What cryingscarf said, and I'll also add that the most common amount for chihuahuas I see at my doggy daycare is 1/4 cup (and most of them don't even finish that) See I can't rely on volumetric measurements because calories per cup vary so much by brand. I guess if I'm going to measure wrong, I'd rather understimate than overestimate. What are some signs that a dog is actually way too hungry still? I can't rely on "wanting food" as a sign because that is just a sign of being a dog.
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Oct 31, 2013 11:39
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Chin Strap posted:I can't rely on "wanting food" as a sign because that is just a sign of being a dog. Pretty much this. Just monitor their weight and if they seem like they are absolutely starving at their ideal food amount, there are some low calorie foods you can add to make them feel full. We do green beans and the dogs go nuts for them. Another option is to break feedings up into multiple smaller feedings to spread it throughout the day (3 feedings instead of 1 or 2 for example). But that really depends on your schedule.
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Oct 31, 2013 13:09
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Chin Strap posted:See I can't rely on volumetric measurements because calories per cup vary so much by brand. I feed roughly 1/4 cup per meal (twice daily) to my 7 lb Chihuahua who is at her ideal weight. With the food I'm currently feeding, that's 102.5 calories per meal (205 cal daily). Plus extra kibble and treats while out of walks. Maybe use that as your starting point. However, what may work for my dog may not work for your dog. This is why we emphasize keeping close tabs on your dog's body condition and adding/removing food as necessary. Don't gauge food on "is my dog too hungry" because, well, they're dogs, and the answer is always yes. Body condition doesn't lie. If you want, you can post a photo and we can advise you if we think your dog is a fattie or not, but the real test is how the dog feels when you place your hands on it. Ribs should be easily palpable, but not sticking out. Hip points may or may not be visible. The spine should have some padding on it. Muscles should be well developed. If my dogs feel a little skinny, I feed ~1.25-1.5 the usual amount. If they're a little fat I'll feed ~0.8 the usual, or increase exercise.
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Oct 31, 2013 13:28
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a life less posted:I feed roughly 1/4 cup per meal (twice daily) to my 7 lb Chihuahua who is at her ideal weight. With the food I'm currently feeding, that's 102.5 calories per meal (205 cal daily). Plus extra kibble and treats while out of walks. Thanks all. He's going to the vet today so they'll tell us about weight. He isn't pure chihuahua but some sort of chihuahua terrier mutt so not on the extremely toy end of things. But still we'll just watch closely. One more question: we are trying to train him and do NILIF, so we give him kibble one at a time for training. We are currently feeding Fromm, and we like the quality of the company (it is also what we feed our cats), but the dog kibble is just so big for training. It is like 4x the size of what I would normally use for treats for him. It is way to much of a pain to be breaking it up into smaller pieces, so we just use it as is. Does anyone know another high-end brand with smaller kibble sizes? (Incidentally, the Fromm cat food has like the perfect size kibble, but of course it isn't formulated right for dogs so that won't work).
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Oct 31, 2013 13:54
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The ones that come to mind right off the bat: Blue buffalo is a little smaller. 4health (Tractor supply store brand) is a "4 star food" with tiny nuggets and is probably closest to what you are looking for. I believe it is grain free and at a good cost too. I want to say Pinnacle had smaller kibbles but not 100% sure.
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Oct 31, 2013 14:18
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My dog won't eat my wife or I aren't in the same room as his bowl. Additionally, he won't eat over the bowl. He takes a mouthful of kibble, walks away from the bowl, and stands staring at us while he chews and swallows it. He's maintaining weight fine, so it's not currently a problem, but it's weird. Anyone seen a dog behave like this before?
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Oct 31, 2013 14:50
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Nature's Variety has very small pieces of kibble around the size of Zuke's treats or smaller. I've never seen it in store, but you can buy it on Amazon. Actually buy all your pet food on Amazon (in bulk) because it's way cheaper.
cheese eats mouse fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 14:52
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:My dog won't eat my wife or I aren't in the same room as his bowl. Additionally, he won't eat over the bowl. He takes a mouthful of kibble, walks away from the bowl, and stands staring at us while he chews and swallows it. He's maintaining weight fine, so it's not currently a problem, but it's weird. Anyone seen a dog behave like this before? I have seen it many times with dogs while boarding at work. Also our neighbor's dog does it all the time. She will take a mouthful of food and eat it behind a couch where she feels comfortable. She is a timid dog overall though. How is your dog outside of food time?
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Oct 31, 2013 14:55
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:My dog won't eat my wife or I aren't in the same room as his bowl. Additionally, he won't eat over the bowl. He takes a mouthful of kibble, walks away from the bowl, and stands staring at us while he chews and swallows it. He's maintaining weight fine, so it's not currently a problem, but it's weird. Anyone seen a dog behave like this before? My mother-in-law's Chihuahua does this - grabs a kibble, runs to the carpet by the front door, drops it, eats it and goes back for another. The dog is overly timid on a good day. Just call it a fun (annoying) personality quirk.
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Oct 31, 2013 15:07
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Chin Strap posted:Thanks all. He's going to the vet today so they'll tell us about weight. He isn't pure chihuahua but some sort of chihuahua terrier mutt so not on the extremely toy end of things. But still we'll just watch closely. Are you using the regular Fromm? Because the Fromm grain free kibbles are ridiculously tiny. I always buy a small bag of salmon tunalinni for training when I pick up a bag of fromm gold for my dog's regular meals because its teeny and fishy and works well for training.
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Oct 31, 2013 15:11
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Chin Strap posted:What are some signs that a dog is actually way too hungry still? I can't rely on "wanting food" as a sign because that is just a sign of being a dog. I'm with a life less on only judging the calorie intake of my dogs on their body condition. If I can see ribs, they're too skinny (they have thick coats), but I want to feel the ribs easily when I touch their sides.
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Oct 31, 2013 15:29
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Instant Jellyfish posted:Are you using the regular Fromm? Because the Fromm grain free kibbles are ridiculously tiny. I always buy a small bag of salmon tunalinni for training when I pick up a bag of fromm gold for my dog's regular meals because its teeny and fishy and works well for training. Well cats get grainfree, but I'm not really clear on that part of nutrition for dogs. I know that they aren't obligate carnivores like cats, so to me grain free didn't seem to make sense. Would it be beneficial to move to the grain free stuff health wise?
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Oct 31, 2013 15:34
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Chin Strap posted:Well cats get grainfree, but I'm not really clear on that part of nutrition for dogs. I know that they aren't obligate carnivores like cats, so to me grain free didn't seem to make sense. Would it be beneficial to move to the grain free stuff health wise? Some people swear on grain free, others aren't convinced it is best. Really depends on who you ask. I just choose grain free cause why not. In this case it might be a good move because then your dog would be on a similar food that has smaller kibbles like you want. It just happens to be grain free.
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Oct 31, 2013 16:39
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Thanks! One more unrelated question (sorry, first dog, want to make sure we are doing it right): how small is too small of a crate? I bought the crate online and it was marked as X-small, which I am now thinking really means like toy tiny small, which he isn't. He can get in and turn around, but his ears touch the top grid, and there isn't really much excess space. I know you don't want to give them room to be able to pee in it and lay on the other side, but I want to make sure I'm not cramping him. I'll try to get a picture when I'm home.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:40
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Sounds like it is edging on small for him. Can he lay down comfortably in it? IMO if the dog is already housebroken then there's no such thing as a crate that's too big. It is more of a requirement with young dogs. Dexter (~19 lb terrier) has a crate in my room that is the "correct" size where it is just big enough for him to go in, stand up, turn around and lay down comfortably. Then he has a second crate downstairs that is meant for probably a large lab. We use that one to actually crate him and the small one is just a bed to him. Go ahead and post a picture later so we can better judge. If you do decide to go for a larger crate, make sure to check craigslist. I have seen people practically giving them away.
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Oct 31, 2013 19:00
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Chin Strap posted:Well cats get grainfree, but I'm not really clear on that part of nutrition for dogs. I know that they aren't obligate carnivores like cats, so to me grain free didn't seem to make sense. Would it be beneficial to move to the grain free stuff health wise? I'm of the "it doesn't matter unless it matters" camp, which means that if they have an allergy to grains or to storage mites then take them off. Otherwise, grains are just fine. To add to that many of the "grain free" use a different starch source and in some cases have a lower protein content than "grain havers" and are really just jumping on the marketing bandwagon there.
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Oct 31, 2013 21:09
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cryingscarf posted:Sounds like it is edging on small for him. Can he lay down comfortably in it? IMO if the dog is already housebroken then there's no such thing as a crate that's too big. It is more of a requirement with young dogs. Dexter (~19 lb terrier) has a crate in my room that is the "correct" size where it is just big enough for him to go in, stand up, turn around and lay down comfortably. Then he has a second crate downstairs that is meant for probably a large lab. We use that one to actually crate him and the small one is just a bed to him. Crappy pictures because I was training him in crate at the same time, but should give you an idea. He's able to lay down just fine and turn around, just wouldn't be doing much playing in it.  
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Oct 31, 2013 21:40
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Yeah that crate seems fine. 
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Oct 31, 2013 23:12
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Sunny Side Up fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Dec 14, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2013 11:55
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Sunny Side Up posted:Does anyone have suggestions for metal non-choke non-"control" collars? We've had no success in stores or via google/amazon/ebay. I am not sure something like that exists. Are you just looking for a collar that is super tough? Or is there some other reason for a metal collar?
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Nov 4, 2013 14:38
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On the topic of choke/prong collars, can anyone provide a good reason/source to show any adverse effects of using a choke/prong collar? I just posted recently about our troubles with our pup pulling on the leash and being a terror in general and my girlfriend is getting really impatient trying to teach our pup how to walk well. She just wants to get a prong collar (thanks to the suggestion of some neighbors/people at the dog park) so our pup stops pulling and I keep telling her that I think this is a bad idea and I'm worried it will cause some adverse long term effects for our pup's demeanor. Are my worries correct?
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Nov 4, 2013 15:18
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I posted about a week ago about my crate problems, mostly constant whining, digging, and barking if we weren't in the vicinity of the crate. 10 week old Roscoe has been getting better at understanding we aren't going to be with him 100% of the time. He's cool with visitors, he's cool with the cat. He will bark a few times and then whine himself to sleep or start chewing on his toys most of the time and we're OK with that! All in all, I think the transition wasn't so bad. Moving on to the current problem; house training. During the day, we take him outside on a tight schedule. We started with every hour, then every hour and a half, and now every 2 hours or so. It works like a charm. He goes potty right away and we reward heavily. The problem is at night. I understand that puppies have small bladders so we put an alarm 4-5 hours into our night and one of us takes the dog outside and we all go back to bed. However, he will often wake up before our alarm goes off, bark once or twice, and by the time we reach the crate he will have peed. I dislike showing up right after barking because I don't want to promote barking so I don't really know what to do with this. When he wakes me up I usually hurry up to the crate in order to get there before it's too late but it hasn't worked many times so far. Should I wake up every 3 hours instead and take him outside? Should I let him bark and let him sit in his pee for a while? When should he be getting his last meal of the day in regards to when he goes to bed? We work evenings and go to bed around 1 or 2 and wake up around 8-9. Thanks.
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Nov 4, 2013 15:44
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Lazerwolf: I have prongs for my German shepherds. The prongs did not stop them pulling, it makes the female slightly more manageable in that she has some awareness now when she pulls unless there is an exciting dog nearby. She will still pull with all her strength. A no-pull harness may be better for you.
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Nov 4, 2013 16:25
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lazerwolf posted:On the topic of choke/prong collars, can anyone provide a good reason/source to show any adverse effects of using a choke/prong collar? Your worries are correct. Prong collars are a quick "fix" with the potential for a lot of nasty side-effects (physical and behavioral). It's especially a bad idea to put a prong on puppies; they are still growing and developing, pulling on a prong collar could more easily damage them physically than a fully developed adult dog. Second, dogs aren't really that good at connecting the pain of the prong collar with the act of pulling. They connect that pain with whatever they're focused on (another dog, a child, a stranger, etc.). This can potentially cause them to develop an unpleasant association with these things and result in some nasty leash-reactivity (which is a bitch to fix). Here are some quick and dirty articles. I wish I had some more scientific stuff, but these are pretty good for the most part. http://www.suzanneclothier.com/the-articles/training-prong-collar http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/which-types-of-collars-and-harnesses-are-safe-for-your-dog http://barksfromtheguild.wordpress....rand=4fa5d0696e Edit: And like adventure in the sandbox said, prong collars often don't even work for pulling. I've known many dogs who still pull on choke or prong collars because all they've learned is that pulling (even if it's painful) is what gets them to go where they want. They need to be taught instead that they only get to go where they want by NOT pulling - teach them what you WANT them to do instead. It's much clearer for them. I would really recommend a no-pull harness. My favorite is the Freedom harness. SENSE-ation/SENSE-ible harnesses are great as well. Easy Walks are okay but not the best from what I've seen. Leashes are REALLY unnatural to dogs. They don't understand why they have to be tethered when out and about, they just want to run around and sniff things. It's like going to Disneyland but being told you have to stay by your parents. So it's best to teach them that staying with you is fun and awesome. Here's a good article with some tips on teaching loose-leash walking: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_10/features/Training-Loose-Leash-Walking_20624-1.html Skizzles fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Nov 4, 2013 |
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Nov 4, 2013 16:34
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internet inc posted:Should I wake up every 3 hours instead and take him outside? Should I let him bark and let him sit in his pee for a while? When should he be getting his last meal of the day in regards to when he goes to bed? We work evenings and go to bed around 1 or 2 and wake up around 8-9. I would wake up every 3 hours. Clearly 4-5 is too long for him, and letting him sit in his pee is both cruel and can backfire horribly if he gets used to it and no longer endeavors to hols his bladder in his crate. Showing up when he barks is probably less harmful than letting him sit in a soiled crate.
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Nov 4, 2013 16:57
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a life less posted:I would wake up every 3 hours. Clearly 4-5 is too long for him, and letting him sit in his pee is both cruel and can backfire horribly if he gets used to it and no longer endeavors to hols his bladder in his crate. Showing up when he barks is probably less harmful than letting him sit in a soiled crate. I found the trick to this is set your alarm so that you are waking the dog up to pee. Don't talk to them, don't praise them. Let them know it's all business. When I was training Nyx I started at 2 hours intervals. When I noticed that I would get up and get to her crate and she was still sleeping I could bump the time up 30 minutes. I would then take her outside without saying anything to her and then immediately put her back in the crate. This would prevent any sort of wind up like it's time to play, while getting across the point that we're just here to do her business. By 3 months she could sleep the entire night without going outside.
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Nov 4, 2013 17:54
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a life less posted:I would wake up every 3 hours. Clearly 4-5 is too long for him, and letting him sit in his pee is both cruel and can backfire horribly if he gets used to it and no longer endeavors to holds his bladder in his crate. Showing up when he barks is probably less harmful than letting him sit in a soiled crate. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't do it out of laziness or as a punishment. I read that crates should have a solid floor so that puppies don't tend to pee in the crate without realizing that they're soiling their little homes. My puppy logic isn't all that good yet, it seems.  Thanks. 
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Nov 4, 2013 18:13
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lazerwolf posted:On the topic of choke/prong collars, can anyone provide a good reason/source to show any adverse effects of using a choke/prong collar? I can't provide articles off the top of my head (although I can provide some general works), but I briefly tried a prong with my heeler puppy and it was disastrous. She was mildly aggressive to other dogs (fear reactivity, really), and the prong collar caused her to become flat-out aggressive. She actually came up the leash at me a couple of times (never injuring me, but clearly trying to scare me). I eventually gave it up because it obviously wasn't working. We switched to a combination of a headcollar for when I needed to exercise her, and loose-leash training in controlled environments (gradually increasing the distraction level). Now she walks on a flat collar and even works off-lead perfectly no matter the situation (I was hiking with her yesterday and literally called her off chasing a herd of elk!). If I'd kept on with the prong collar I suspect I'd still be struggling to take her for a walk around the block. Prong collars work for some dogs but too many people use them as a substitute for training. I think the vast majority of dogs are better served with a no-pull harness or a headcollar in the short term, and being trained to walk on a loose leash with a flat collar in the long term. There aren't many dogs who can't learn to walk on a loose leash given the right training; it's just that the training is slow and boring at first, and not many people want to put the time in.
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Nov 5, 2013 03:40
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I think prongs have their place. I train my dogs to walk at a heel on a loose lead (when on a flat collar, I teach them that they are allowed to, and encouraged to, pull if they are wearing a harness) but if I'm taking them somewhere where I know there will be a lot of other dogs, they wear a prong, because there's a good chance having to be "on" with that many dogs around is going to push them over threshold and the ONLY way to keep them from devolving into reactive messes is with the use of a prong. They can handle being walked through a crowd of other calm dogs that are ignoring them, but after a couple of excited dogs lunge at them, that's it. I try to avoid taking them to places where there are tons of dogs when possible, and I train them to follow as many "backup" commands to leave other dogs alone as possible, but I'd rather my dog wear a prong for an hour than have him lose focus, a leash break, poo poo hit the fan, and welp, some grannie's yorkie gets eaten. For the vast majority of dogs they aren't necessary and get misused, but for very high drive dogs in certain situations, I just don't get all the hate that prongs get. I've used them on several SUPER sensitive pits and none of them had emotional breakdowns or ~trust issues~ over it, and it certainly has never INCREASED reactivity, for me. Moses is the most emotional dog I've ever had and when he sees a prong he's just like "hell yes WE GOIN  "
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Nov 6, 2013 15:56
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Yeah but that's 'cause he knows a prong means "we goin," dogs are kinda too dumb to fully grasp that the prong is what causes the pinchy discomfort. Some dogs are way more sensitive to physical correction, some are like "lol is there something on my neck?" The Freedom harnesses I've used on pits I petsat were enough to give me control. I certainly don't say "YOUR DOG IS GUARANTEED TO BECOME A RUINED REACTIVE MESS IF YOU USE A PRONG!!!!!" because obvs some do fine on it. But anything trained with a prong can (typically) be trained with methods that carry way less potential fallout and I will probs never use them. It's mostly the idiots who get them just because they think the pain will make their dog stop pulling or who merely think "yank hard when dog does any little thing I don't like" who wind up with hosed up dogs. Then there's your bonus dumbass who preaches "it imitates the correction a mother would give its pup!!!!" Because everyone knows a mother dog's mouth is exactly like a row of double metal prongs around most of the neck, and that mother dogs clearly correct their dogs well into adulthood. Yes, that is perfect. I have Feelings about prongs but idgaf what you do, Super. It's mostly the idiots.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:38
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Superconsndar posted:For the vast majority of dogs they aren't necessary and get misused, but for very high drive dogs in certain situations, I just don't get all the hate that prongs get. I've used them on several SUPER sensitive pits and none of them had emotional breakdowns or ~trust issues~ over it, and it certainly has never INCREASED reactivity, for me. Moses is the most emotional dog I've ever had and when he sees a prong he's just like "hell yes WE GOIN It totally depends on the dog (and how it's being used). Psyche is the opposite. I have never used a prong on her, but when she is near threshold, even pressure on a leash attached to a harness/collar is enough to send her over threshold. I've had to desensitize her to me pulling on the leash (if she's far enough gone, it's the only way to move her and she WANTS increased distance, but won't let me move her. God is she dumb). I imagine a prong would have just made things worse, plus risked injury. Head collars, for some reason, work like you are describing though. It raises her threshold and reminds her that I exist so she can keep her brain focused a bit longer. It works even if I have the leash attached to her harness, just something about putting stuff on her nose.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:58
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Depending on what head collar it is, it may (allegedly) hit calming pressure points behind the ears. I totally forget about head collars. The New Trix is by far my favorite head collar. I could walk my friend's leash-reactive GSD with only a pinky on that thing. Surprising amount of control. I just always default to harnesses because there's little to no fuss with desensitization, as is needed with head collars.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:06
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Skizzles posted:Depending on what head collar it is, it may (allegedly) hit calming pressure points behind the ears. I totally forget about head collars. The New Trix is by far my favorite head collar. I could walk my friend's leash-reactive GSD with only a pinky on that thing. Surprising amount of control. I just always default to harnesses because there's little to no fuss with desensitization, as is needed with head collars. I think the behind the ears thing helps, but it's secondary for her because it works with the several different head collars we've tried + her muzzle, all of which sit on roughly the same place on her nose, but have different behind-the-head attachments. We're using the New Trix right now. I do like it, but if we're going to walk past a dog, I clip the leash onto her harness because it's not so good for dogs who jump around. She can pretty much back right out of it (it also attaches to the collar, so this doesn't result in loose doggie), even though in principle it should tighten and not allow that. Great for pulling though, works like it should on the principle that dogs move into pressure, so if you move the pressure to the back of the head, you get less pulling. Confession: I have never really succeeded in desensitizing Psyche to head collars. I tried. I spent a full two months on the New Trix before I ever took her for a walk with it. They were so necessary for our reactive dog classes in the beginning that I would just have to slap it on her and she associated her original one (not the gentle leader, the other one, I forget the name) with bad things. She likes the New Trix better, but still bulks at putting it on. Don't tell the force free people. 
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Nov 6, 2013 18:34
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I honestly think that is a confession most people (even behavior savvy ones) with head collars have, really.  poo poo takes effort.
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Nov 7, 2013 03:29
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Is there a goto reference for collars, head collars, and no-pull harnesses? Which one is the best in what situation and all that.
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Nov 7, 2013 03:36
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As far as whichever one works best, that depends on your dog. What exactly are looking for? Brands and types, basically?
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Nov 7, 2013 04:22
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Which type is best to walk my puppy around? I want to train him the loose-leash walking technique you posted earlier but until he learns I still have to walk him around. I've been using a simple no-choke collar but we either go wherever he wants or he pulls on the leash which looks like it strangles him. I found this but there isn't much text to back those claims.
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Nov 7, 2013 04:38
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Most people seem to have success with a front-attach harness in a short period of time, in my experience. They seem to give people a good amount of control even over very strong dogs. I've used them on a boxer and a boerboel with great success. Head collars take time to accustom the dog to wearing them, and I find that a lot of dogs still pull on the sporn-type harnesses because the discomfort isn't enough to stop them pulling. You still have to employ the stop-start technique and teach the dog to walk properly with anything that you use. Stop when the leash goes tight, wait for the dog to slacken off even a little, verbally mark that and start walking again.
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Nov 7, 2013 04:56
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6-Ethyl Bearcat posted:You still have to employ the stop-start technique and teach the dog to walk properly with anything that you use. Stop when the leash goes tight, wait for the dog to slacken off even a little, verbally mark that and start walking again. What do you do if you can barely get one step in before the leash goes tight again?
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Nov 7, 2013 15:19
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