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Yeah...1.8 is pretty poo poo.
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Nov 8, 2013 05:23
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Cleretic posted:I've only done one so far, but I think the main issue with scenarios right now is that nothing is really clear or explained. Can't really heal the survivors, and you're wasting your time by trying, but that's never said! It's very AoE focused, but nothing indicates that, either! That's pretty much my take on it trying solo. Also I have 6 green augments (2 each of 3 different types) and I'm still not sure how the hell to use them. EDIT:  80 Oreos for some Pax and a phone call. And my eyes continue to fly around the room. Zhaan fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Nov 8, 2013 |
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Nov 8, 2013 05:25
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Join me on the official forums telling them the scenarios suck so I'm not the only one.
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Nov 8, 2013 06:20
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guppy posted:Join me on the official forums telling them the scenarios suck so I'm not the only one. Except the thing is they don't. Maybe harder ones, sure, but so far I've been having fun. It requires some very different strategies to the rest of the game, but that's not a bad thing. If new content requires you to stretch into those weird esoteric corners of character building to excel, then it hasn't failed on one front; it's succeeded on two.
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Nov 8, 2013 06:27
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Cleretic posted:Except the thing is they don't. Maybe harder ones, sure, but so far I've been having fun. It requires some very different strategies to the rest of the game, but that's not a bad thing. If new content requires you to stretch into those weird esoteric corners of character building to excel, then it hasn't failed on one front; it's succeeded on two. I really don't mind the groups. The solos are irritating me, though.
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Nov 8, 2013 06:30
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Hey, scenarios are at least giving me a reason to finish my glance-tank build..... Sixth-Sense may have a new home.
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Nov 8, 2013 06:34
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So, Elite Solo: Platinum cakewalk. Nightmare Solo: A full DPS build can keep up, but won't, because enemies accumulate while you're ambling between survivor groups. It's a bit of a jump.
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Nov 8, 2013 06:54
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Cheston posted:So, Elite Solo: Platinum cakewalk. Rethink your build.
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Nov 8, 2013 10:07
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Len posted:Rethink your build. Ugh, those forums.
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Nov 8, 2013 10:26
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Cheston posted:Ugh, those forums. So far I can make a total of one verdict about scenarios: gently caress that bear boss in the Mansion scenario. No matter how well you're doing, that guy's gonna shoot your ranking through the loving floor. It's way to early to judge success or failure of the scenarios at this point, though. It's pushing people into using more varied builds which is nice, and there's always a nice bit of variety in the runs which can be pretty cool. But on the other hand it's really hard to judge if they're 'fair' because it's not binary like with dungeons; if you lose no matter what it might be the game at fault, but there's just no way to be sure when success is that nebulous. And we can't really pass notes to find out what 'works' yet, because we're still in the experimental phase where we can't say 'yes, the bear boss needs this specific Blood ability' because even if someone has found that combination, it hasn't propagated and been assimilated into the Great Pubbie Consciousness. I'm sure scenarios need balancing. But at this point even the signal-to-noise ratio isn't to blame, there just aren't definite claims anybody can make about anything. Except that the bear boss is bullshit. gently caress that guy.
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Nov 8, 2013 10:56
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So if I'm kitted out in 10.4/10.5 stuff with purple and blue signets, do I need to do anything scenario-wise other than do the 4 or whatever to get signed off? Because right now it seems like the only way to win is not to play.
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Nov 8, 2013 12:20
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Marx posted:
You have learned my most important lesson, Grasshopper.
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Nov 8, 2013 13:05
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Marx posted:So if I'm kitted out in 10.4/10.5 stuff with purple and blue signets, do I need to do anything scenario-wise other than do the 4 or whatever to get signed off? You could join me in drunknarios. Take a drink when the scenario starts, each wave, and every time you find yourself going "why am I doing this?", "this is loving dumb.", and "goddamnit Funcom"
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Nov 8, 2013 13:16
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Cleretic posted:Except the thing is they don't. Maybe harder ones, sure, but so far I've been having fun. It requires some very different strategies to the rest of the game, but that's not a bad thing. If new content requires you to stretch into those weird esoteric corners of character building to excel, then it hasn't failed on one front; it's succeeded on two. The problem is twofold. 1. Stuff like wave defense is ok, but not for 15 minutes. 2. I don't want to do these a billion times. Bear in mind that I hate everything you think, consistently. You can set your watch by it.
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Nov 8, 2013 13:48
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Marx posted:So if I'm kitted out in 10.4/10.5 stuff with purple and blue signets, do I need to do anything scenario-wise other than do the 4 or whatever to get signed off? The current form of scenarios are trash grinding and horrible in a way pubbies, and some confused goons, seem to love. Funcomfortable has another style that could play out like a scooby doo caper, which could be fun if it plays out like a generic investigation mission with random Clue like qualities to keep them unique. What we will most likely get is a hallway with npcs telling us to keep going forward until we get to a boss room.
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Nov 8, 2013 13:56
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HughGRect posted:The current form of scenarios are trash grinding and horrible in a way pubbies, and some confused goons, seem to love. Funcomfortable has another style that could play out like a scooby doo caper, which could be fun if it plays out like a generic investigation mission with random Clue like qualities to keep them unique. What we will most likely get is a hallway with npcs telling us to keep going forward until we get to a boss room. We are such optimistic people.
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Nov 8, 2013 13:58
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Len posted:We are such optimistic people. The glass is always full until Funcommon empties it by gloriously throwing it in our faces, which we attempt to refill by causing pubbies to cry on forums and in game. PoundSignFreeEvilBillMurray.
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Nov 8, 2013 14:15
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Eh, even at the system's worst, it's still better than NM dungeons.
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Nov 8, 2013 14:17
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The main are I see in need of balance is Ghouls in Egypt. They hit really hard, and the Filthy Ghoul Boss (not the shaman one) will just straight up hit you for 4k+, not a special attack either.
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Nov 8, 2013 14:35
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HughGRect posted:The glass is always full until Funcommon empties it by gloriously throwing it in our faces, which we attempt to refill by causing pubbies to cry on forums and in game. PoundSignFreeEvilBillMurray. You didn't hear? Its not freeEvilBillMurray anymore. Now its freeDEvilBillMurray. They repealed the ban so I'm free to shitpost again. Orcane and I will usher in a new era.
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Nov 8, 2013 15:41
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I'm finding them kind of fun until I realize I have to run them ... I... I don't even know how many times to get all the drops to make all the augments and loot all the augments and grind all the tokens and get all the AP and fill the skill wheel and ... seriously what the gently caress? Why would you design it like this? If I have to grind for a million drat hours at least don't give it an 18 hour lockout. For whomever was asking how an augment works. Step 0: do the Story Quest up to the part where you click on the machine and get a Simulator Dungeon quest and it unlocks the augment wheel (you get the SQ when you zone into Agartha, not 100% sure it's required, but you do have to get the sim dungeon quest to unlock the wheel) Step 1: spend 30 SP on the appropriate augment type skill (damage/support/healing/survivability) - if you got lucky and got a blue/purple augment, well, you got unlucky for starting, 'cause that's a component for later. If you got a yellow augment, tell me how, cause I don't know where the hell those come from) Step 2: have 115 AP banked Step 3: right click the augment in your inventory and wave bye-bye Step 4: click the augment wheel and equip the augment to one of your abilities. Be prepared for it to randomly stop working (my health one does this all the time, so I assume my other ones do too but aren't as obvious) Advanced Augmenting Level 2+ augments to craft an augment at QL2-5, you need 2 identical augments, or 3, or 4, or 5. and a kit. and more AP and the appropriate level of the skill. Blue or Purple Augments to craft a blue or purple augment, you need the blue or purple component, plus some base components (for example, Precise Augment Resonator (+50 hit rating with that ability for level 1) takes the blue component, plus 2 greens, 24 pure wheel runes, 36 pure fires, and an attuning kit. Yellow Augments ??? Level 2+ blue or purple augments Here's where you go insane. Put them together! So if you want a level 5 Purple Asskicking Augment, you need to put together 1 level 1, learn it, then get 2 level 1s, assemble and learn that, then 3 level 1s, assemble and learn it, 4 level 1s, assemble and learn it, and finally 5 level 1s, assemble and learn it. So not only is that 15 purple drops that will be insanely competed for, that's also X greens per drop (which are somewhat uncommon, probably won't be too bad after the market stabilizes but there will still be demand because you will need 15 of those to learn that one up to level 5 and they will always be base components and aren't super common) plus a gazillion pure materials plus all the kits for all those that cost all the tokens. And that's just for ONE line maxed out. Plus the AP of course (EDIT: 115 is just the first hit, it starts costing more). Makes me just want to cancel, but I've got a lifetime anyway.
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Nov 8, 2013 15:48
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Len posted:You didn't hear? Its not freeEvilBillMurray anymore. Now its freeDEvilBillMurray. They repealed the ban so I'm free to shitpost again. Orcane and I will usher in a new era. Joel must really have missed you, but how long before you're banned again?
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Nov 8, 2013 15:51
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HughGRect posted:Joel must really have missed you, but how long before you're banned again? I give it a week or so.
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Nov 8, 2013 16:24
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How did you get unbanned, anyway?
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Nov 8, 2013 17:48
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You guys concerned about the required grind, it's okay. According to Joel only the people who really love them have to do scenarios and everyone else can just buy kits and attuners off the AH. Really it's just a slightly more elaborate signet system in which the Thwoompas farm signets, Cheston's friends corner the market and everyone else gets to buy them for a billion pax. There's nothing that can go wrong.Cleretic posted:Eh, even at the system's worst, it's still better than NM dungeons. HughGRect posted:Joel must really have missed you, but how long before you're banned again? orcane fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Nov 8, 2013 |
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Nov 8, 2013 17:53
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Kaethela posted:How did you get unbanned, anyway? I sent the community manager a message saying I overreacted to the Issue 6 bug and that I've calmed down some but since being a dick is my gimmick I was still going to be loud, angry, and rude. I'm genuinely surprised she unbanned me. orcane posted:You guys concerned about the required grind, it's okay. According to Joel only the people who really love them have to do scenarios and everyone else can just buy kits and attuners off the AH. Really it's just a slightly more elaborate signet system. Since it's new content there's no cookie cutter build yet so all the special snowflakes have time to shine.
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Nov 8, 2013 17:59
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I ran a dungeon last night and wanted to share a story of pugliness. Sometimes you get bored in MMORPGs. The interminable grinding in late-stage gameplay for a rainbow whatsit is designed to keep you playing midst the dying embers of interest and well, fun. Sometimes you just want to wreck things. Having about 45 minutes to kill I signed up for a Normal dungeon and got invited to an Ankh group as a DPS. The first three bosses went fine, no deaths as far as I can recall. Then, we got to the bridge where you fight the giant. I was busy typing "Has anyone not done this fight yet?" when the cutscene kicked in. After the cutscene ended, I turned around & started fighting mobs & doors back along the span of the bridge the way you're supposed to- but most of the rest of the group didn't seem to know what was going on. The tank seemed to know what they were doing and was fighting mobs, but the rest of the group seemed confused. "Why aren't we attacking the boss?" one asked, then charged the boss and died quickly. We got to the Dead Ops guy on the bridge and I got to him first. Admittedly, I pulled aggro, then slowed my attacks to drop it and the tank picked it up again after a few moments. We get through the second gate and the tank dies, leaving me, a healer and one DPS. They died in succession to Overkills, but I managed to take Melothat down from about 40k hp to 0. I was surprised at that (I guess it was the Block I'd put on?), and a little pleased. The tank wasn't. He/she began complaining that we had two tanks, and that I needed to remove health gear for the tank to keep playing. The group leader was saying we ought to just go on, then the tank dropped group without another complaint. The rest of the group was quiet & frustrated. They hadn't played the Ankh before and wanted to know if we could continue on with four. I said it's worth a try. We downed the Spider boss, and I told them what to expect in the final fight. We wiped on our first attempt, but it gave them an opportunity to see how the fight worked and what to avoid. We beat Melothat and Klein on our second attempt with only three of us.
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Nov 8, 2013 18:12
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Also because I missed this post:Cleretic posted:Except the thing is they don't. Maybe harder ones, sure, but so far I've been having fun. It requires some very different strategies to the rest of the game, but that's not a bad thing. If new content requires you to stretch into those weird esoteric corners of character building to excel, then it hasn't failed on one front; it's succeeded on two. For groups, there's figuring out whether a full group with solo builds works better than splitting into 2-3 groups or eg. running healtank/4 DPS, but the actual builds aren't going to be vastly different from existing builds. A unique snowflake RP build isn't going to be better in scenarios if it sucks everywhere else. The only "new" part of character building the scenarios may profit from is finding exploits to get around the dumb penalties to aggro and healing Funcom put in. You can't pull waves to you with Cold Blooded or healing aggro anymore, but maybe something else works. Healing survivors is really inefficient but perhaps some heals are effected less by whatever system keeps your healing low. orcane fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Nov 8, 2013 |
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Nov 8, 2013 18:34
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orcane posted:You guys concerned about the required grind, it's okay. According to Joel only the people who really love them have to do scenarios and everyone else can just buy kits and attuners off the AH. Really it's just a slightly more elaborate signet system in which the Thwoompas farm signets, Cheston's friends corner the market and everyone else gets to buy them for a billion pax. There's nothing that can go wrong. Hey, I haven't cornered the market in weeks. (There are two or three Damage augments that are going to become incredibly expensive, because Damage augs are the most useful, you can't slot one augment on multiple actives, and you need at least three to cover all of your builders and consumers.) Marx posted:So if I'm kitted out in 10.4/10.5 stuff with purple and blue signets, do I need to do anything scenario-wise other than do the 4 or whatever to get signed off? Not really. The entire Augment system is basically gravy, which for now is why I don't mind the "massive grind" part of it. I really hope that, whatever the Aegis system ends up being ("horizontal progression"), it involves cheap specs and frequent respecs, because that'd be a very palatable counterpart to this.
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Nov 8, 2013 18:45
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The aegis thing is either a pipe dream like Black Ops, beastaiary, subscriptions and player retention or it might be the name of an ingame casino where the currency is signets, charges three of the same type and gives you a random one back.
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Nov 8, 2013 19:22
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What was black ops and the bestiary, were these planned at some point?
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Nov 8, 2013 20:20
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orcane posted:What was black ops and the bestiary, were these planned at some point? The beastiary was going to reward players who hit 10k kills with a new skill. Not sure what Black Ops was, maybe the open world PvP?
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Nov 8, 2013 20:48
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Len posted:The beastiary was going to reward players who hit 10k kills with a new skill. Not sure what Black Ops was, maybe the open world PvP? Black Ops was openish world pvp, a relic would spawn in a zone and anyone near it would be flagged for pvp in a king of the hill type of fight.
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Nov 8, 2013 21:21
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Cheston posted:Hey, I haven't cornered the market in weeks. (There are two or three Damage augments that are going to become incredibly expensive, because Damage augs are the most useful, you can't slot one augment on multiple actives, and you need at least three to cover all of your builders and consumers.) It's not gravy to me, because I'm not interested in it for powergaming or maxing out my spec, or whatever, it's to complete my character, because it's part of my character sheet now and it's yawningly, gapingly, vastly empty and incomplete and that's not good and I'm very mad at Funcom. They made loot part of my skills and that sucks.
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Nov 8, 2013 23:11
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Frankly I'm not sure the augment items will be extremely expensive. I mean potentially, those who want them will far outnumbers those getting the (right) items. On the other hand, unlike signets, you need a finite number of those augment things, and you also need to farm a million AP to get them, which might be the limiting factor for a lot of people.
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Nov 8, 2013 23:31
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Len posted:Since it's new content there's no cookie cutter build yet so all the special snowflakes have time to shine. The lack of a cookie cutter solution is one of the big appeals here right now. I always thought a big flaw of the game was how when it came to NM dungeons only a small portion of that ability wheel was any good. The rest of it's just a waste of time from a purely practical standpoint, because if you're a DPS that didn't invest in Clean Up, or someone that uses Fist for anything other than healing, or one of several other limitations, you're just sort of hosed. There's a ton of other fun abilities, but you're not going to use them, so what's the point. Part of this is time. But a few things will manage to alleviate the issue a bit when people do smarten up about them. -The multiple difficulties mean that, when the prime builds do come up, you don't have to use them to excel. Don't have that Hammer ability that's now ubiquitous, and/or just don't like Hammer? Just slum it in Normal or Elite for a while and you'll get the same stuff, it just might take longer. -Say one does turn up to deal with a particular boss. Well, there's no guarantee you'll be fighting that boss, so while you might find yourself relying on a bit of luck, it's still perfectly possible to manage without it. -The varying degrees of success also mean it's not necessary. Sure, stepping up to the top for the achievements you'll need them, but it's more negotiable below that. It's not a complete waste of time if you didn't bring that ability, you just didn't succeed as much. -Even if, by the end, it is a different flavor of the problems with NMs, as long as the reasons differ it will have succeeded. say we only need twenty percent of the wheel to own every ability needed to do well in dungeons, and when scenarios gt settled we'll only need a different twenty percent of the wheel. That's still more useful abilities in the wheel, and that should be considered a good thing. Maybe you aren't useful in NMs because you didn't build toward that standard, but now that there's an entirely different standard requiring entirely different abilities, maybe you bumbled into those instead. While I would prefer there not being a shortlist of must-have abilities, a surprisingly acceptable alternative is to make that list longer.
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Nov 9, 2013 02:04
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I have bad news for you: The other 80% of the wheel aren't used in nightmare dungeons because they're bad abilities. Scenario builds will not look like nightmare builds, generally, but they'll make use of the same pool of good abilities. A special snowflake build that's bad in every other area of the game doesn't turn into some sort of secret protip build for scenarios which are built around the same paradigm of "kill things before they kill you(r friends)". Also you may not have noticed but the difficulty of scenarios is all over the place, there are clearly easier and harder combinations of spawns and random events. If the goal is to just beat the scenario, yeah that doesn't matter very much (unless you get a boss you don't have the build for) but just barely scraping by with 1 survivor shouldn't be the goal. And the solo/duo ones are intentionally harder if you do them actually alone or with two. For now the only reason you can get away with bad builds is because you/pubbies you group with (why would you even do that for scenarios...) don't know better. That's not a good reason to say scenarios are good. orcane fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Nov 9, 2013 |
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Nov 9, 2013 02:42
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I'm clearly not understanding these scenarios, I've just failed all 3 on normal mode On all 3 I lost one guy just trying to loving find him Then I pretty much lose everyone else during the third wave when all of the groups of survivors get attacked at the same time This is in mostly 10-10.3 stuff using my standard AoE solo build that I've had no problems at all doing signet missions with
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Nov 9, 2013 03:29
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Use the intro phase (30 or 60 seconds, I can't remember) to learn where everything is - the blue hexagons are where survivors will spawn. If you can't find them, run around and try to listen for the attack sounds. If you just want to get through the scenario, don't try to rescue all 2/3 camps, focus on one and pick up the adds as they spawn (orange [x] marks on the map, you can learn which defensive camp each spawn belongs to) so they can't unleash AoE etc. on your survivors, then clean up the map and kill the boss.
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Nov 9, 2013 03:44
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Deceptive Thinker posted:I'm clearly not understanding these scenarios, I've just failed all 3 on normal mode Yeah, I've got no idea what you're doing wrong. Start by learning a good circuit for the first phase, though, an efficient start will put you in a good position. I've done all of them on Normal and one on Elite, though, and I haven't had all of the camps attacked simultaneously. It sort of happened in the Castle, but that was because I forgot to kill the last enemy in one of the waves.
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Nov 9, 2013 03:54
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