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It's clear that the best way to submit your resume for a developer job is to write a program that procedurally generates the text. The output would be a LaTeX file that they can run through the interpreter, then convert that to PDF. I mean really, do you expect them to take you seriously if you send them a Word document? That's a MiKKKro$oft program! [edit] Also, it should be a quine
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Nov 9, 2013 00:55
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I don't get why you suddenly have to act like a retard. Do you expect this to alter the nature of reality with respect to how representing yourself as the sort of person that uses LaTeX affects the resume reader's perception of you? Do you just dislike the way reality operates and want to pretend things aren't the way they are?
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Nov 9, 2013 00:58
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How many points does being an insufferable sperg lose/win you?
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Nov 9, 2013 01:04
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Trick question depends if you're applying at Google or not
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Nov 9, 2013 01:05
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shrughes posted:I don't get why you suddenly have to act like a retard. Do you expect this to alter the nature of reality with respect to how representing yourself as the sort of person that uses LaTeX affects the resume reader's perception of you? Do you just dislike the way reality operates and want to pretend things aren't the way they are? 99% of people reading resumes either don't know about or give a gently caress about latex, hope that helps
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Nov 9, 2013 01:06
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Crazy Mike posted:I knew what a RAID was but wasn't able to talk about the difference between RAID 1 and RAID 0. That's a lovely question to ask a programmer. It's easy, but it has no bearing on anything to do with writing code. Unless you're writing code for RAID controllers, I guess. Crazy Mike posted:what is the framework that is most critical in .NET? That's a lovely, subjective question.
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Nov 9, 2013 01:06
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gucci void main posted:99% of people reading resumes either don't know about or give a gently caress about latex, hope that helps I think I would like to work for that remaining 1%
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Nov 9, 2013 01:06
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I did my resume in latex, you may have heard of it.
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Nov 9, 2013 01:07
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What font should I use for my resume, guys? Is there one that tells interviewers that I'm a better developer? Seriously, this is a ridiculous tangent.
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Nov 9, 2013 01:09
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Well, you shouldn't mix two different sans serif or two different serif fonts on the same resume.
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Nov 9, 2013 01:11
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Font size is important. How big? Web scale, that's how big.
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Nov 9, 2013 01:11
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I'm just going to throw it out there that everyone I know that is extremely successful in the industry did it without using Latex. To be fair, I sometimes wonder if shrughes is from the moon, because I know a lot of extremely successful tech people in various parts of the country and none of them care about half the things he does. So I might just be coming from a different perspective. I'm also not a tech person myself.
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Nov 9, 2013 01:34
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unixbeard posted:How many points does being an insufferable sperg lose/win you? shrughes posted:The main thing employers want to know is: CAN YOU loving CODE? (and not be a spergacious buttlord). It seems pretty important, since it's one of the two criteria employers care about.
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Nov 9, 2013 01:45
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Rurutia posted:I'm just going to throw it out there that everyone I know that is extremely successful in the industry did it without using Latex. Personally I get the impression it's a relatively well-delivered (and good natured) troll act. God help whoever has to work with him if it's not.
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Nov 9, 2013 01:45
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Sorry, I was out for a bit. Apparently, I missed some discussion... Also, Sorry I'm not an elite goon and didn't use LaTeX  . Anyway, here it isIthaqua posted:I just export my resume to PDF before I send it HondaCivet posted:Yeah I export to PDF before handing it out to recruiters or applications.
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Nov 9, 2013 02:17
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Hyperman1992 posted:Sorry, I was out for a bit. Apparently, I missed some discussion... Also, Sorry I'm not an elite goon and didn't use LaTeX Remove Objective, Put work experience first. Get rid of Activities and Interests That Personal Highlights thing, most of it seems to be skillset. Do not write sentences for it because people will just gloss over it. You need to separate this out into projects and skills. None of your work experience bullet points are that great. Generally you want to use past tense for your action verbs, but more importantly I don't even know what tools/languages you used per job. From what I can infer it seems like you used C#, but I have no clue. Nothing from the bullet points sound technical. Your content should be only one page. Not because it's some hard rule, but it doesn't really seem like you have that much experience that requires you to have more than one page.
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Nov 9, 2013 02:39
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^^^  Hyperman1992 posted:Sorry, I was out for a bit. Apparently, I missed some discussion... Also, Sorry I'm not an elite goon and didn't use LaTeX - Objective section is bullshit, remove it. - Activities and interests - remove it, no one cares - Personal highlights section is actually pretty impressive, with a few exceptions (noted below) - "Good Knowledge of the Software Development Life Cycle and the Unified Modeling Language" -- capitalization - "Proficient with many programming languages such as C#, WPF, HTML5/CSS, JavaScript, Java, and PHP, as well as various frameworks, such as .NET" -- WPF isn't a programming language. HTML and CSS aren't programming languages. If you say you know C#, you don't need to say you know the .NET framework, it's implicit. Work experience section: - Same comments as I had for HondaCivet's resume... you need to talk more about your accomplishments and what you actually did. Also, the tense is weird. Use past tense. - Example: "Automate various daily reports around the Retail Markets department" How did you do that? What technologies did you use? How did it help the retail markets department? That should read more like "Automated daily reports for the retail markets department. These reports were formerly generated by referencing spreadsheets, and could take up to 3 hours each day to compile. This manual process was replaced by a magical, wonderful reporting system that was built using LaTeX (  ) and some other impressive-sounding technologies, and saves the company hundreds of man-hours per month."Also, are you aware that you can read through your entire "work experience" section and never once see anything even remotely technical? I see that you've been working since 2012, but I have no idea what technologies you've been using or how you've been using them. Basically, if anything is the "personal highlights" section and you've done it for a job, talk about it within the context of the job and dump it from the personal highlights section. If that section loses enough content that it seems extraneous, dump it.
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Nov 9, 2013 02:43
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Strong Sauce posted:Great Points Ithaqua posted:^^^ I removed the Objective and Activities sections. As you've seen, there are a couple of personal highlights that may be worth noting, that weren't actually a job (just as a project, either school, or outside). Do you think I could split them out into a new section? Or should I just leave it as is, with some shortening? Ithaqua posted:- "Good Knowledge of the Software Development Life Cycle and the Unified Modeling Language" -- capitalization The main reason I wrote the html, and c# ones were for HR purposes. Mainly, I figured at companies (well, the bigger one's anyway), the HR person is just going to be checking through and seeing if they have X in the resume. Maybe my assumption is a bit wrong... Either way, I removed WPF, and C#, just leaving .NET, and removed the HTML bit. Ithaqua posted:Basically, if anything is the "personal highlights" section and you've done it for a job, talk about it within the context of the job and dump it from the personal highlights section Strong Sauce posted:Your content should be only one page. Not because it's some hard rule, but it doesn't really seem like you have that much experience that requires you to have more than one page.
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Nov 9, 2013 03:21
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Hyperman1992 posted:The main reason I wrote the html, and c# ones were for HR purposes. Mainly, I figured at companies (well, the bigger one's anyway), the HR person is just going to be checking through and seeing if they have X in the resume. Maybe my assumption is a bit wrong... Either way, I removed WPF, and C#, just leaving .NET, and removed the HTML bit. Put C# on there, along with the most recent .NET framework version you've worked with. It's good for keyword scanners. You should mention WPF, but talk about it in the context of what you did with it. Just don't list it as a programming language, which is what you did in your previous draft.
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Nov 9, 2013 04:17
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I've rewritten the resume, basically using a jobs section and projects section as a way to list what I know (instead of having the highlights section), and I can't seem to get it under 3 pages... Here's the link again, for ease I know these sections are a tad too long, but its one of those situations where I'm just not too sure how to trim it...
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Nov 9, 2013 04:25
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Hyperman1992 posted:I've rewritten the resume, basically using a jobs section and projects section as a way to list what I know (instead of having the highlights section), and I can't seem to get it under 3 pages... Here's the link again, for ease I know these sections are a tad too long, but its one of those situations where I'm just not too sure how to trim it... It's looking much better now! Here's something really nitpicky, but it's a thing that I'm spergy about : It's not "C# .NET". It's just C#. Less nitpicky: For the projects section, break it down into a series of bullet points. You want it to be easily scannable by someone who is busy as hell and has a giant stack of resumes to look through. You're telling a story right now. The story might be really interesting, but don't tell it on your resume. Break it down into some bullet points, focus on the technology, and tell the story during the interview. You can also be more descriptive. You say you used C# and WPF. Did you use any particular patterns (like MVVM)? Did you unit test the application? How was the application architected? The idea is that you want to emphasize all of the cool stuff you know how to do, and that you can use that cool stuff in such a way that it can make other people more productive/make a company some money. If you want to save some space, you can chop off the "courses of interest" part of the education section, and I'm not sure that the "professional affiliations" section is worth much. It seems like padding, and you have plenty of substance to talk about.
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Nov 9, 2013 04:47
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For instance, "This project was done during the exam period of my second year, first semester, as well as the Christmas break" should not be on a resume. You will have plenty of time to tell a story during the interview process.
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Nov 9, 2013 05:54
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Ithaqua posted:It's looking much better now! I hate this poo poo too but I've seen a lot of job listings write the language as C#/.NET or C# .NET. gently caress automatic screening in the ear, man.
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Nov 9, 2013 06:39
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Rurutia posted:I'm just going to throw it out there that everyone I know that is extremely successful in the industry did it without using Latex.
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Nov 9, 2013 08:53
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Can I write my resume in XML-FO if that's a skill I have listen on my resume? ...Never mind, I would feel like a big sperglord, and perhaps wouldn't give my employer the greatest impression of my problem solving abilities, if I wouldn't instead choose to use a convenient WYSIWYG tool that's designed for the purpose of writing things like resumes.
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Nov 9, 2013 10:11
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Rurutia posted:I'm just going to throw it out there that everyone I know that is extremely successful in the industry did it without using Latex. I don't care about the things I mention either. If I'm reading a resume, my goal is not to nitpick like that. The thing is that people do get a bad first impression when you have typos, mixed tenses, awkward omissions of articles, calling things programming languages that are not, using "C/C++", and all the other things I mentioned. When looking at a resume that you're making, you need to take a maximally antagonistic view towards anything on there and ask how you can make it better. (Using Microsoft Word isn't that important, it's just that the formatting is the first impression you get. If they haven't had the occasion to learn LaTeX, and if they have a copy of MS Office on their machine, they're probably not very well educated, and it shows when they happily spew out their Microsoftian demented parody of typographic design. Imagine being a liberal white person with ingrained racial prejudices. Seeing a Microsoft Word resume is kind of like meeting a black person, you have to smother your initial preconceptions and think "Oh, I'm not going to assume this person's of below average intelligence.") You say that none of the people care about half the things I do, though. I don't get why. The only thing people have complained about me mentioning is it not being in LaTeX, which is just, you know, my first reaction to seeing it. Do the people you know just go and omit commas? And if anybody I knew started talking to me about how awesome object oriented programming is, well, it's not like I'd sperg out on them or anything, I'd just assume they were a bit green. (Maybe I'd flip my poo poo when they begin to claim that OOP provides encapsulation.)
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Nov 9, 2013 12:23
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shrughes posted:I don't care about the things I mention either. If I'm reading a resume, my goal is not to nitpick like that. The thing is that people do get a bad first impression when you have typos, mixed tenses, awkward omissions of articles, calling things programming languages that are not, using "C/C++", and all the other things I mentioned. When looking at a resume that you're making, you need to take a maximally antagonistic view towards anything on there and ask how you can make it better. (Using Microsoft Word isn't that important, it's just that the formatting is the first impression you get. If they haven't had the occasion to learn LaTeX, and if they have a copy of MS Office on their machine, they're probably not very well educated, and it shows when they happily spew out their Microsoftian demented parody of typographic design. Imagine being a liberal white person with ingrained racial prejudices. Seeing a Microsoft Word resume is kind of like meeting a black person, you have to smother your initial preconceptions and think "Oh, I'm not going to assume this person's of below average intelligence.") That's fair. Not sure about your analogy, but the rest of it I can get behind. With that said, most good resumes you can't really tell it's from MS Word because no one uses the default formatting. And Word is actually pretty powerful. I'm coming from a field extremely prejudiced against MS Word and pretty much uses Latex exclusively, so I get the love for Latex. I just haven't seen a poorly formatted Word resume that wouldn't also be awful in Latex because the creator clearly doesn't understand proper formatting, nor one that couldn't be fixed in Word easily. quote:You say that none of the people care about half the things I do, though. I don't get why. The only thing people have complained about me mentioning is it not being in LaTeX, which is just, you know, my first reaction to seeing it. Do the people you know just go and omit commas? And if anybody I knew started talking to me about how awesome object oriented programming is, well, it's not like I'd sperg out on them or anything, I'd just assume they were a bit green. (Maybe I'd flip my poo poo when they begin to claim that OOP provides encapsulation.) I think it's more the strength of what you say. I also wasn't referring specifically to your last post. But more than once, I've read what you wrote, showed it to someone or mention it in passing to a friend , and they'd say: "mm.. no...etc". I think usually their objection is, while the general idea isn't wrong, it doesn't effect their final decision.
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Nov 9, 2013 13:37
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I have more hatred for Latex than love. I wouldn't go out of my way to make one in LaTeX just to follow some vague profiling (it's not going to be relevant if you get everything else about the resume up to par -- a latex resume is a sign that maybe they're worth an interview if they're fresh out of undergrad without much to show for themselves on the resume, because their resume-making skills suck or they're actually Satoshi Nakamoto and don't want to put that they made Bitcoin on it). The best resume I've ever seen, design and presentation-wise, for an engineering position, was actually made in Excel!
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Nov 9, 2013 13:57
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Hyperman1992 posted:I've rewritten the resume, basically using a jobs section and projects section as a way to list what I know (instead of having the highlights section), and I can't seem to get it under 3 pages... Here's the link again, for ease I know these sections are a tad too long, but its one of those situations where I'm just not too sure how to trim it... You can make your name, address, phone numbers, and email section much smaller. They don't need your address at all, really, but even if you want to keep it to show you were born on the right side of the tracks, they don't need your address, phone numbers, and email, to be the same size as your name. Putting them together on the same vertical space in some tabular formation, or otherwise not putting them on separate lines, would reduce your resume down to 2 pages. But you really need to get it to 1 page. You're in college, right? How can your resume be more than 1 page? There are a few simple ways to reduce the size. One is to not waste so much vertical space. The second is to make your words more concise. The third is to reduce the font size. You can do all of these. Let's look at the Education section. You've got the word "Courses of Interest" and three courses all on its own line. You could make them one line by writing "Courses of Interest: Object Oriented Programming, Mobile Application Development, Software Quality II". (By the way, did you take any courses in, say, data structures and/or algorithms?) Then you've got Professional Affiliations. First of all, the line "Active Participating Member" is not indented the same as its friends. But first of all, you can certainly remove the NCCP line. Nobody cares that you are licensed to coach. (That's even a thing?) The line "Active Participating Member" is underlined in light blue for some reason. And you could put all this information on one line: Professional Affiliations: OACETT (Associate Member), Canada Technology Triangle .NET User Group. Done. You can save another 4 lines by putting locations of organizations on the same line as the organization. Be sure to indent the location to the same offset! You can also save vertical space by having section headers like "Work Experience" and "Education" and such be separated from the rest of the text with less whitespace. Underline it and de-indent it or something, and remove the whitespace beneath it. Put a half-width line or 1/3-width line underneath. In fact, generally speaking, just use partial-width lines for all the blank lines you want to have. Probably the only ones should be above and below those section headers, although maybe a 1/3-width or 1/4-width blank space would be appropriate between entries. The exact choice depends on how much breathing room you've had when you make modifications to the prose and such. Now there's the question of compressing your prose, but I've got to go play golf so I can't get into that right now.
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Nov 9, 2013 14:49
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shrughes posted:I have more hatred for Latex than love. I wouldn't go out of my way to make one in LaTeX just to follow some vague profiling (it's not going to be relevant if you get everything else about the resume up to par -- a latex resume is a sign that maybe they're worth an interview if they're fresh out of undergrad without much to show for themselves on the resume, because their resume-making skills suck or they're actually Satoshi Nakamoto and don't want to put that they made Bitcoin on it). The best resume I've ever seen, design and presentation-wise, for an engineering position, was actually made in Excel! I disagree, unless the position is for Principal Engineer or Architect, I'd delete any resume that came in E-Mail as a .tex file as someone missing the point of working with others. The average hiring manager is not going to have something capable of opening a tex doc associated with the file extension on their machine and a new grad sending out a resume as such just shows a lack of understanding as to how the world works. Now, a printed resume, I couldn't care less how it was generated but for Christ sake if you're e-mailing something it ideally should be pdf to hit the local maxima of control over formatting and chance the person reading it can open it.
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Nov 9, 2013 15:33
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Rurutia posted:With that said, most good resumes you can't really tell it's from MS Word because no one uses the default formatting.
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Nov 9, 2013 17:02
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Plorkyeran posted:People who know much of anything about print typesetting can spot Word's derpiness regardless of how much you customize it; it's simply not very good at laying out text. For a developer position this is unlikely to actually matter, but I suppose most designers would argue that good typography helps even if it's not actively noticed. Yes sorry, within the context of this thread.
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Nov 9, 2013 17:09
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Hughlander posted:I disagree, unless the position is for Principal Engineer or Architect, I'd delete any resume that came in E-Mail as a .tex file as someone missing the point of working with others. The average hiring manager is not going to have something capable of opening a tex doc associated with the file extension on their machine and a new grad sending out a resume as such just shows a lack of understanding as to how the world works. Not once have I seen anyone in this thread recommend sending a resume as a .tex file.
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Nov 9, 2013 17:40
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I cannot believe some people are seriously saying they cannot tell the difference between a PDF exported form Word and one exported from LaTeX - surely you are trolling, or have never ever used LaTeX?
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Nov 9, 2013 19:01
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Goddamn this tangent is insufferable.
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Nov 9, 2013 19:10
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return0 posted:I cannot believe some people are seriously saying they cannot tell the difference between a PDF exported form Word and one exported from LaTeX - surely you are trolling, or have never ever used LaTeX? I'm saying that it doesn't matter and no one cares and we should stop talking about it because the method of typesetting that you used for your resume is roughly as important as what you ate for breakfast when determining whether you get called back or not.
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Nov 9, 2013 19:24
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Can the next tangent be suitchat again? How about interviews in bars or cafes. I had one of those. It was kind of nice.
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Nov 9, 2013 19:48
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What about the meta-cognitive ramifications of the stanley parable upon the now nameless framework used to sift through jobseekers? eight
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Nov 9, 2013 19:49
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Tabs or spaces?
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Nov 9, 2013 19:50
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The writing style here makes me think this could've been distilled from this very thread, but it seems pretty spot on. http://www.stefankendall.com/2013/11/10-questions-to-ask-your-potential.html
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Nov 9, 2013 19:59
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