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Halloween Jack posted:Okay, I have a candidate, which may or may not be controversial. Damion Scott's entire run on Batgirl as a penciler. The entire appeal of Cassandra Cain is that she is a Kung Fu Batgirl. Her book was drawn by a guy who seems like he has never seen a fight or a martial arts movie in his life. Damion Scott is an absolutely awesome artist, but he was severely restrained on Batgirl with typical mid-00s boring colors and the watering down of his trademark graffiti-inspired style. I wish someone would let him do a GN or mini with the level of craft that he put into his Solo issue.
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Nov 8, 2013 19:34
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Jerusalem posted:Goddammit I hate this type of thing, like when they retconned Hal Jordan going crazy into being infected by an alien fear monster since apparently good people never do bad things/have a bad day.
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Nov 8, 2013 19:39
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In Kirkman's case IIRC it's because he had no idea when his run was ending. It was supposed to be a filler run until Bryan Singer's run started but Singer's run never happened so it just kept on going with no real plan.
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Nov 8, 2013 19:53
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Suben posted:In Kirkman's case IIRC it's because he had no idea when his run was ending. It was supposed to be a filler run until Bryan Singer's run started but Singer's run never happened so it just kept on going with no real plan. Counterpoint - He created the Magician. He also did the awful Apocolypse/Sinister storyline after Vaughn already did it.
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Nov 8, 2013 19:56
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Halloween Jack posted:Y'know, if Alan Moore rewrote The Killing Joke today, I'd expect an alien fear monster. But Moore already used an alien fear monster in a different book that DC can't handle properly.
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Nov 8, 2013 20:26
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mind the walrus posted:You know a comic series has been plagued by awful runs when it's Mark loving Millar you look to as the benchmark of quality. Early Mark Millar when he was stealing stories from Grant Morrison was pretty good. Both his Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men laid the groundwork for that line. Would you say USM is bad because Bendis writes it and his later Avengers stuff was poo poo?
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Nov 8, 2013 20:32
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Here's some really early Mark Millar for you: (Had the picture because I wanted to make this post about STC in the underrated runs thread, but I've already posted in it and don't want to double-post)
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Nov 8, 2013 20:43
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Metal Loaf posted:Here's some really early Mark Millar for you: It's almost hard to believe it's Millar, nobody's getting raped, acting like a misogynist or sexist or racist or anything. Are we sure Grant Morrison didn't write it?
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Nov 8, 2013 20:47
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El Gallinero Gros posted:It's almost hard to believe it's Millar, nobody's getting raped, acting like a misogynist or sexist or racist or anything. What was the first thing Millar actually wrote all by himself? Ultimates 2?
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Nov 8, 2013 20:49
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El Gallinero Gros posted:It's almost hard to believe it's Millar, nobody's getting raped, acting like a misogynist or sexist or racist or anything. I've made a mistake; Alan McKenzie scripted that story. Not really sure how I missed that. This story, on the other hand (from Sonic the Comic #2), was written by Millar:        Fairly pedestrian stuff, I guess. Millar's run on STC probably deserves to be mentioned in this thread, anyway, because it was pretty poor. You can turn out decent and entertaining stories even if you're writing a kids' comic and the source material is Sonic the Hedgehog (as Nigel Kitching would demonstrate when he became the main writer) but Millar's admitted that he was half-assing his stories and only wrote them because he needed the money to pay for his wedding. He also wrote a Streets of Rage adaptation, which probably prefigured his more recognisable style. I'll see if I can find any scans of that. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Nov 8, 2013 |
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Nov 8, 2013 22:51
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Jeez. Add some modern movie references and a lot of swears and blood and that's pretty much anything he's ever written in the past decade.
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Nov 8, 2013 22:55
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I was told that Millar's Superman Adventures run (based on the tv show) was pretty solid stuff. It seems Millar does better when he is working with other's property as it reigns in his tendencies to go for overthetop shock and disgust.
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Nov 8, 2013 23:18
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Madkal posted:I was told that Millar's Superman Adventures run (based on the tv show) was pretty solid stuff. It seems Millar does better when he is working with other's property as it reigns in his tendencies to go for overthetop shock and disgust. I'll probably get flak for this, but Millar is not a bad writer. The man can and does create some amazingly huge and ambitious ideas (his Ultimate/ Ultimate X-Men/ Ultimate Fantastic Four run, Wolverine, Red Son etc..) He is capable of doing stories that move beyond puerile to approach a deeper meaning (1982, which was a metaphor for how a father and son can bond over a shared love of comics, Superior) What kills him when he doesn't have an editor to hit him with a stick and say "No! Bad Mark!" when he talks about introducing exploding wombs. Millar is a writer who could be better if he was controlled.
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Nov 9, 2013 20:15
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Millar is so hit and miss it's crazy. Any stuff he has full reign on is usually total garbage, Wanted is one of the worst things I've ever read.
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Nov 9, 2013 22:49
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fatherboxx posted:Damion Scott is an absolutely awesome artist, but he was severely restrained on Batgirl with typical mid-00s boring colors and the watering down of his trademark graffiti-inspired style. I wish someone would let him do a GN or mini with the level of craft that he put into his Solo issue.
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Nov 9, 2013 23:22
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Holy poo poo, this has an Eldorado reference. I'm pretty sure I had some early issues of that comic as a kid.
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Nov 10, 2013 03:11
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Suben posted:So there is/was a large thread on 4chan's comic board about how awful Byrne is with a lot of creepy-rear end poo poo he's written. Anyway going by something someone mentioned in that thread... John Byrne did an OMAC miniseries where OMAC went around saving human villages in exchange for being able to have sex with their underage teenage girls?  
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Nov 10, 2013 19:38
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I kinda liked the first half of those panels, until the teenage girl came along.
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Nov 10, 2013 20:46
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I don't know the context but gosh if that isn't some embarrassingly bad "white man saves savages" fantasizing.
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Nov 10, 2013 20:53
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Chinaman7000 posted:I don't know the context but gosh if that isn't some embarrassingly bad "white man saves savages" fantasizing. But OMAC is blue!
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Nov 10, 2013 21:38
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Plutonis posted:But OMAC is blue! Blue man savages underage girl, then.
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Nov 11, 2013 04:58
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Exit Strategy posted:Blue man savages underage girl, then. Racist!
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Nov 11, 2013 14:14
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I was going to say that I think Byrne's okay when he evidently cares about the characters he's working with (the X-Men, the Fantstic Four, Superman, to some extent Alpha Flight) and he's terrible when he cares more about proving how he has the best ideas (pretty much everything else, but especially West Coast Avengers and maybe Iron Man), but after those pages... erm, I'm not so sure if I particularly want to...
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Nov 11, 2013 14:43
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I'm not trying to insinuate poo poo about John Byrne, but:
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Nov 11, 2013 21:10
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Was that something Byrne added to the history of the FF? I'd thought that pre-dated his run. Still a bit  though.
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Nov 11, 2013 21:12
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If that squicks you out then I strongly suggest you stay away from Next Men. Now I really liked Next Men. I thought it was a great take on the "What if there were people with Super Powers in the Real World!" idea, and some of the stuff had fantastic ideas. (The way the Time Travel plot ended was one of the best, neatest reveals I had ever seen in a long while.) But man there's a lot of sex in it. And it does get pretty 
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Nov 11, 2013 21:26
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Is there something grosser than Sue liking Reed when she was in middle school that I'm not getting from that panel? Just crushing on a dude six years older than you isn't that weird.  Edit: Missed the OMAC stuff. In that context of it being the same dude...
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Nov 11, 2013 21:36
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Pretty sure it's been retconned to Sue being ~18 (summer between HS & College) while Reed's on a getaway from academia to work on his dissertation. Still an age gap, of course, but not nearly as
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Nov 11, 2013 21:56
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404GoonNotFound posted:Pretty sure it's been retconned to Sue being ~18 (summer between HS & College) while Reed's on a getaway from academia to work on his dissertation. Still an age gap, of course, but not nearly as Wasn't there an article with a letters page asking why this had been retconned, and the Marvel editors said 'this is disgusting, so we retconned it?' I can't remember where I saw it, but it was one of those times I agreed wholeheartedly.
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Nov 11, 2013 22:51
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:Wasn't there an article with a letters page asking why this had been retconned, and the Marvel editors said 'this is disgusting, so we retconned it?' I can't remember where I saw it, but it was one of those times I agreed wholeheartedly. Yeah, that was in the letter pages of a recent FF or F4 comic, and Fraction was like "Yo, gently caress this creepy poo poo".
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Nov 11, 2013 23:20
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Look at Reed's loving face in that picture. HE'S INTO IT.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:44
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DressCodeBlue posted:Is there something grosser than Sue liking Reed when she was in middle school that I'm not getting from that panel? When its between adults 6 years isn't a big deal. When its a 12 year old and an 18 year old that's just gross.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:57
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I don't think a twelve year old crushing on an 18 year old is innately creepy but that panel is just creepy by itself. Remove the text from it and just look at the weird image. For one, she doesn't look quite twelve anyway (and Reed looks like a creepy thirty year old door to door salesman) and for two the expression of the adult Sue framing the image is bizarre. And third, it not feeling creepy rotates around it being unrequited affection and it's hard to feel like it's that way given the rest of the shot.
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Nov 12, 2013 01:08
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/\ Yeah, I see your point. She looks more like seven. /\ You legit don't think 12 year old girls crush on older teens/young adults/actual adults? If they actually did anything, then it's hella gross. As is, it's only gross when you know Byrne's creepy-rear end track record.
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Nov 12, 2013 01:09
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DressCodeBlue posted:As is, it's only gross when you know Byrne's creepy-rear end track record. And when you look at adult Sue's expression. It looks like the next panel's narration should read "That's what he promised me, as he took me into the bad-touch room."
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Nov 12, 2013 01:27
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Byrne also has an underage Lana asking an older Superman to kiss her "like a woman" in one of the Generations series. It's funny because every scene like that Byrne does always floats the creepiness first and then goes "it's not creepy! she was wise beyond her years!" or a variation of that.
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Nov 12, 2013 02:11
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Reed Richards is mad into science fiction. He fits the profile.
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Nov 12, 2013 02:47
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McSpanky posted:And when you look at adult Sue's expression. It looks like the next panel's narration should read "That's what he promised me, as he took me into the bad-touch room." Or as Bryne calls it the not-so-bad touch room. 12 yearolds having crushes on older characters is fairly bog standard childhood nostalgia bait writing up until they end up marrying the crush later in life. Also I find the concept ridiculous because having known twelve yearold girls in the real world who are now legal I still just want to strangle them for being such little shits.
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Nov 12, 2013 12:10
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I want to talk about Marvels (USA) Transformers comic. The volume started out as a 4-issue miniseries but was a hit and got extended for what turned about to be a seven-year run. Up till issue #55, Bob Budiansky was the writer. His one is not so much a bad run as one hamstrung by corporate interests. There are some bad stories in there but also some good - e.g. the Autobot civil war following Optimus Prime's death (in only the second year!) However, the Transformers comic was about one thing and one thing only - peddling toys. As such, previous writer Bob Budiansky found that any kind of storytelling had to take a backseat to pushing the season's flavour. If you aren't overly familiar with Transformers, it's worth noting that there were hundreds of different Transformers in the "generation one" toy line - each year saw the release of up to 50 new robots, not counting re-releases of old models. Each issue had to introduce half a dozen characters before the writer could go on with the story, and Budiansky tried to give every character a chance to shine. By the fourth full year of the comic the character glut was so massive they could afford to kill more than 50 characters in the story from issues #48-50. Initially, Budiansky managed to put Predacons, Headmasters, Aerialbots and Pretenders in situations that made sense if you didn't think too much about it (The Decepticons run a tropical resort because...) but his last year is definitely phoned in, and his last issue featured a man wrestling a car. Yeah... He was succeeded by Simon Furman of Transformers UK, who had another approach to new characters - "Look, here's Quickmix's and Landfill's, now sit down 'cause here's a story about the characters you actually care about". Or is it Sputnik fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 14:40
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I mentioned it in my Kyle/Yost New X-Men post but it's at the end and I feel confident enough in saying that Avengers Arena firmly belongs in this thread. Originally this was intended to be simply an arc as part of a broader Braddock Academy ongoing. However Axel Alonso and Tom Brevoort zeroed in on the part where Arcade tries to put them in a death match in Murder World and I guess figured "hey that Hunger Games thing is pretty hot right now, let's make that the whole book". So take a few established characters (Chase/Nico from Runaways, Hazmat/Mettle/Reptil from Avengers Academy, X-23 from the X-Men and AA, and solo heroes Darkhawk and Red Raven), add in some new ones, add Arcade and hype it up as some kind of controversial book and you're good to go. This book loving sucks. From its concept on down to its execution to even its art (Walker's a good artist generally but he definitely deteriorates and things start getting a little wonky as the thing goes on) it's a piece of poo poo. The very first sentence in the book is a A veritable treasure trove of bad writing indicators are in full bloom here. Deaths lack any emotional punch because they tend to happen in retarded, almost throwaway at times ways or to characters you don't care about because they all have about as much personality as cardboard here. Does a character suddenly start getting focus and their backstory expanded after having neither for like the previous 3/4 of the series? They're going to die. The characters entirely serve the plot and there comes a point where you have to think most of the characters are some of the mentally stupidest people to ever grace the medium as contrived, yet easily predictable, plot twists happen to keep things going and a lot of the fighting basically happens with Arcade going "GO ALONG WITH IT" and characters essentially "durr, okay" more or less. And then there's the ridiculously handwavey explanation for how all of this happens. How was Arcade able to capture these kids from the X-Men, Avengers, SWORD, and other places that should theoretically have top of the line security tech? With super-duper-totally-better teleportation tech duh! How does he have godlike powers? Super nanites everywhere. How come someone like Nico doesn't just end things immediately or get them all out of there? Super nanites everywhere thus her magic is hosed. The answer to everything is basically super nanites, super tech, and LMDs or some poo poo all courtesy of Arcade's previously non-existant hyper-competent girl friday sidekick. It also, I think, effectively ruins Arcade. Before he was a fun and goofy villain who trapped people in giant pinball machines and poo poo. He was the comic bookiest villain whose deal was if you win, hey you win because it's all a game to him. Now he's not because he needed to be super-serious and badass and it's the most exposure the character's gotten in a long, long time. It might be a bit of hyperbole but congrats Marvel, you now have your own Doctor Light except replace rape with killing kids I guess. It's an awfully written book with an ultra-cynical, utterly repugnant concept that exists solely to glom onto something popular while completely missing the entire point of that popular thing. Suben fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 06:35
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