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The highly addictive drug tests are very easy to game though, unless you are so addicted you can't stop for 3 days. They don't prevent truckers from doing it in their off time at all. They exist purely to detect hardcore addicts and marijuana users.
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Nov 4, 2013 17:16
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Mr. Nice! posted:When you start to deal with highly addictive drugs, there's good reason to not want someone to do meth or coke in their off time, as they're likely to be doing while driving. Have you got some evidence that amphetamine and cocaine are more addictive than alcohol?
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Nov 4, 2013 17:36
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Jeffrey posted:The highly addictive drug tests are very easy to game though, unless you are so addicted you can't stop for 3 days. They don't prevent truckers from doing it in their off time at all. They exist purely to detect hardcore addicts and marijuana users. The whole point is they don't want people under the influence while driving. If you can't pass a rapid screen, you shouldn't be on the road for professional work. There is a substantial increase in risk from people driving under the influence. KingEup posted:Have you got some evidence that amphetamine and cocaine are more addictive than alcohol? They're all highly addictive substances and you're not allowed to have any in your system. I also said meth, not standard amphetamines. It's disingenuous to change the wording when you posit a question. Nicotine and caffeine are also about the same as meth, alcohol, and coke in addictive properties. However the effects of those are minor compared to the effects of hard stimulants or depressants.
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Nov 4, 2013 17:50
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Mr. Nice! posted:When you start to deal with highly addictive drugs, there's good reason to not want someone to do meth or coke in their off time, as they're likely to be doing while driving. Mr. Nice! posted:They're all highly addictive substances and you're not allowed to have any in your system. I also said meth, not standard amphetamines. It's disingenuous to change the wording when you posit a question. Nicotine and caffeine are also about the same as meth, alcohol, and coke in addictive properties. However the effects of those are minor compared to the effects of hard stimulants or depressants. So you would happily ammend your first statement to include alcohol and maybe read something like this: quote:When you start to deal with highly addictive drugs, there's good reason to not want someone to do alcohol, meth or coke in their off time, as they're likely to be doing while driving. By the way, what makes methamphetamine* a non-standard anphetamine and what is the pharmacological profile of a 'hard' stimulant? *http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm088582.pdf quote:A review of recent research on methamphetamine use suggests that claims the drug causes significant cognitive problems are exaggerated. The study by Carl Hart, PhD, and colleagues at Columbia University and the New York State Psychiatric Institute (NYSPI) was released in this month’s Neuropsychopharmacology. KingEup fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Nov 4, 2013 |
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Nov 4, 2013 17:59
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KingEup posted:So you would happily ammend your first statement to include alcohol and maybe read something like this: I believe that was the point of his "truck drivers aren't allowed to use alcohol within 12 hours of their shift" anecdote.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:03
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Is a truck driver who has driven for 12 hours really safer than the truck driver who has driven for 12 hours but has just taken some meth? How sleep deprived does one really have to be for the meth to have a net benefit.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:10
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Jeffrey posted:Is a truck driver who has driven for 12 hours really safer than the truck driver who has driven for 12 hours but has just taken some meth? How sleep deprived does one really have to be for the meth to have a net benefit. There are also limits on how many hours a driver can drive before stopping. Once you cross state lines, the numbers drop. A driver can only drive 11 hours straight if they have had 10 hours of off time before that happened. There are certain ways that people can drive up to 14 hours, but never past that. Any driver that goes beyond their hours is subject to bigass fines if caught. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's against the rules. Tired driving is just as bad as driving under the influence.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:14
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Of course nobody wants drunk truckers etc plowing about the highways but drug tests are still definitely "kind of bullshit" since they aren't administered to CEOs, congresscritters, stockbrokers, etc.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:27
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Also note that no one should be administered drug tests as a condition of employment. Sure, if you want to test a driver directly before he drives, fine. But administering a drug test to a driver and then declaring him at fault because he may have had some pot within a week of the accident is bullshit that insurance companies do so they don't have to payout.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:35
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The city of Portland, ME just legalized it. http://www.pressherald.com/politics/Portland_could_set_precedent_with_marijuana_vote.html The measure is mostly symbolic for now as law enforcement have said they will follow state law. But it's a good symbol, and gives good proof that a statewide vote would likely be easily successful.
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Nov 6, 2013 04:30
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Colorado approved the pot taxes today. T-minus two months (ish) till we have pot stores. Life in the Centennial State is good. 
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Nov 6, 2013 05:50
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redshirt posted:The city of Portland, ME just legalized it. http://www.pressherald.com/politics/Portland_could_set_precedent_with_marijuana_vote.html quote:Election Administrator Bud Philbrick said voter turnout was higher than expected. “It seems the (marijuana) question on the ballot has generated some interest,” he said. Told you guys putting weed in the ballot can drive up votes a bit.
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Nov 6, 2013 12:09
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All three city-level legalization passed in Michigan yesterday. No word yet on whether the respective police departments will continue to arrest under state or federal law. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/michigan-marijuana-law-legalization_n_4221350.html Between this, conservative lawmakers in the state floating the notion of "pot for potholes" as a reason to tax and decriminalize, and (hopefully) shining examples of success in Colorado and Washington in the coming year, I hope we'll get legalization on the ballot by 2016.
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Nov 6, 2013 13:24
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The 25% tax on marijuana in Colorado should bring in a hell of a lot of money considering half the people in this town seem to be perpetually stoned 24/7 and spend at least $200 a month on weed. I wonder what it's like to receive a pizza delivery from a sober person?
Pryor on Fire fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Nov 6, 2013 |
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Nov 6, 2013 21:11
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Pryor on Fire posted:I wonder what it's like to receive a pizza delivery from a sober person? Nobody in the history of pizza knows what that is like.
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Nov 6, 2013 21:17
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Pryor on Fire posted:The 25% tax on marijuana in Colorado should bring in a hell of a lot of money considering half the people in this town seem to be perpetually stoned 24/7 and spend at least $200 a month on weed. I wonder what it's like to receive a pizza delivery from a sober person? http://www.9news.com/news/article/222842/188/Pizza-guy-calls-cops-on-customer-who-smoked-marijuana-
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Nov 6, 2013 21:22
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Pryor on Fire posted:The 25% tax on marijuana in Colorado should bring in a hell of a lot of money considering half the people in this town seem to be perpetually stoned 24/7 and spend at least $200 a month on weed. I wonder what it's like to receive a pizza delivery from a sober person? How much is an 8th a week gonna cost in CO now that it is legalized? Is it still gonna come out to $200?
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Nov 6, 2013 22:34
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ReverendCode posted:Nobody in the history of pizza knows what that is like. Horribly boring and entirely too business like.
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Nov 6, 2013 22:40
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Miltank posted:How much is an 8th a week gonna cost in CO now that it is legalized? Is it still gonna come out to $200? According to this it's expected that you could grow and process marijuana for ~$3/ounce.
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Nov 6, 2013 22:44
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computer parts posted:According to this it's expected that you could grow and process marijuana for ~$3/ounce.  $3.00? so why is medical stuff still close to black market price? overhead can't be that much!
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Nov 6, 2013 22:52
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TenementFunster posted:
He's probably exaggerating a little and there is some inherent risk for medical growers since they can't put their money in the bank, but there is a reason why medical growers were opposing legalization.
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Nov 6, 2013 22:56
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computer parts posted:According to this it's expected that you could grow and process marijuana for ~$3/ounce. Oh sweet Jesus. Man need not ever be sober again 
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Nov 6, 2013 23:01
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TenementFunster posted:
Medical growers and dispensaries haven't gotten to operate at full scale as of yet, that's why. Plus a lot of them do simply charge more because the amount of suppliers is rather restricted compared to open season weed.
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Nov 7, 2013 00:26
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Plus, yknow, weed's a weed. Given proper industrial methods and open access, you could grow mountains of the stuff.
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Nov 7, 2013 00:31
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TenementFunster posted:
Pure profit baby. Weed shops = 
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Nov 7, 2013 01:36
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Daeren posted:Plus, yknow, weed's a weed. Given proper industrial methods and open access, you could grow mountains of the stuff. It's called Kentucky. I am relieved that the tax passed. Colorado was facing a likely suit from the feds if they could not set up their regulatory board to the DoJ's standards and their regulatory board was essentially an unfunded mandate until this tax fixed it. I understand why the tax was not part of the main ballot measure a year ago, but it was a risky move.
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Nov 7, 2013 01:48
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A few encouraging steps forward today. Every time I see more than a few replies in this thread, I always get a bad feeling, but so far none of it's really amounted to much other than either good news or people arguing in a giant circle.
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Nov 7, 2013 03:17
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Pryor on Fire posted:I wonder what it's like to receive a pizza delivery from a sober person? ReverendCode posted:Nobody in the history of pizza knows what that is like. Once again, The Onion is 15-years ahead of the curve: http://www.theonion.com/articles/everyone-involved-in-pizzas-preparation-delivery-p,504/ "Sadly, for millions of pizzas, interaction with non-stoned humans is simply not an option" PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 04:43
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When the US Government outlawed marijuana (the devil's weed) they actually had to have a massive campaign to kill off the wild growing plants with FLAMETHROWERS. It can be grown in massive outdoor crops that if tended can be nearly as potent as hydroponic. If there was no legal barrier to outdoor crops a comparable price would be rolling tobacco. Even with indoor only it is a solid product with a simple business plan there is no reason you could not get a loan to rent warehouse and grow 2000 pounds. Even if you want to get super crazy look at the price per ounce of super exotic plants like saffron. Look at the 5 most expensive coffee beans even those prices are WAY below the current black market. http://www.walltowatch.com/view/2778/Top+5+most+expensive+coffee+beans quote:1. Kopi Luwak: varying from $115,- to $590,- per 500 grams
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Nov 8, 2013 22:04
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Kopi Luwak is coffee made from beans harvested from the poo poo of Asian wild cats FYI. Even that stuff is 50 times cheaper than weed.
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Nov 8, 2013 22:20
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Are there any sources for those prices?
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Nov 9, 2013 23:11
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Xelkelvos posted:Are there any sources for those prices? That's a bit of an odd question since the source would just be a retailer price points. I picked the St. Helena coffee on a whim and looked it up. This importer is asking for $90 per lb or $90 for 432 grams, which isn't far off from what the article quotes. Looking at that crazy civet poo poo coffee, Amazon has something at $75 per 200 grams, which again fits in the articles range.
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Nov 9, 2013 23:42
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We already had this discussion of prices for existing products derived from rare and difficult to grow plants. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3511253&pagenumber=90&perpage=40#post419377880 twodot posted:Wasabi is hard to grow, it basically only grows near certain rivers in Japan. It's so expensive that 99% of things marketed as wasabi are not wasabi at all and just horseradish. You can buy it in America for ~$60 per pound. 800-2000 per pound is right around the price range for black truffles. Black truffles are so hard to grow that humans didn't succeeded in cultivating it until the 1800s. Even now, we literally have to harvest it by hand using either pigs or specially trained dogs, again so expensive that 99% of "truffle" products are actually just using synthesized compounds that were found to be some of the major flavor components of truffles.
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Nov 10, 2013 01:55
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Cannabis flowers can be produced for pennies on the pound using modern industrial agriculture. I know that you can spend an arbitrary amount of effort on growing any plant but people who think that cannabis would cost more than a single dollar per pound for a corporation to grow are being grossly ignorant of the technology that drives modern agriculture. There is a good video with Alan St. Pierre talking about this exact issue on youtube.
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Nov 10, 2013 03:49
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And that's why "high" tax rates wouldn't really be an appreciable burden on the weed-buying public. It's also why most normal crops have to have artificially raised prices by government supports in order to be worthwhile to grow.
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Nov 10, 2013 04:11
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Install Windows posted:And that's why "high" tax rates wouldn't really be an appreciable burden on the weed-buying public. It's also why most normal crops have to have artificially raised prices by government supports in order to be worthwhile to grow. Obviously there is an amount of tax that would sustain a black market. Regardless, like I said earlier, our first priority should be to stop the arrests taxes be damned.
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Nov 10, 2013 05:49
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But no one has been arrested for simple possession in Colorado for years. And why exactly would prices go down that far? All you'd need is the dozen or so guys that will control all of the retail pot shops in CO to agree on a price floor. It's a market with a high barrier to entry now, so don't expect to see rock bottom prices, at least right away.
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Nov 10, 2013 14:32
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Also too, until marijuana laws are consistent at the Federal level, there will still be a black market and black market pressures on prices for MJ, even in states that its legal. Its naive to think no one in CO or WA will not be exporting to other states, via the black market.
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Nov 10, 2013 14:40
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Radbot posted:But no one has been arrested for simple possession in Colorado for years. But that's kinda the point. When the current price equates to thousands of dollars for a whole pound of the stuff, and the "real" price for a pound of it using normal farming techniques and benefits is a dollar or less, prices still have a long way they can fall while the sellers can still have themselves ridiculous margins. If, for example, they decide that their floor is going to be $300 for a pound of it, that's radically cheaper than any of the illegal operations having to take steps of secrecy can match, it's radically cheaper then the status quo for "medical" weed, but it's also got a built in huge margin of profit for them.
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Nov 10, 2013 18:28
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redshirt posted:Also too, until marijuana laws are consistent at the Federal level, there will still be a black market and black market pressures on prices for MJ, even in states that its legal. Its naive to think no one in CO or WA will not be exporting to other states, via the black market. I think a lot of us are counting on it being exported to other states! Flooding places like Idaho and Nebraska with tons of weed from next door is slowly having an effect on perceptions of how benign legal weed actually is and the inevitable futility of trying to suppress it in the first place. And just wait until Colorado and Washington are sitting on mountains of surplus weed cash. Expect the floodgates to burst open in several states on election night 2016.  "The perfect is the enemy of the good." I think a lot of these worries about taxes, black market competition, etc are needless circle jerks of over-analysis that only serve to muddy the issues instead of clarifying them. let's generate some revenue for the state, disabuse our fellow citizens of their desire for a police state, and get our friends out of jail! Also, I look forward to these windfall profits giving weed merchants the political capital to push for new open markets in other states. The future looks nice & hazy for free market weed! Brave New World fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Nov 11, 2013 |
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Nov 10, 2013 20:47
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