|
I dunno, I enjoy having a large amount of action slots so that I can fill them with different macros of the /fart emote. Anything that prevents that is a travesty and an insult to... something rose tinted glasses... unfun stuck in the past design principles... something about the game being THE ONE TRUE WAY.
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 04:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 14:44 |
|
|
Doh004 posted:I dunno, I enjoy having a large amount of action slots so that I can fill them with different macros of the /fart emote. I haven't ever put any emotes up on my hotbars.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 04:54
|
|
|
Yeah I think they're both design choices but there's nothing redundant about the way that WoW does skills. I played a druid for years and years, which is a class with a full set of utility spells, damage spells, and 3-4 different possible transformations with their own unique skillsets as well, and being able to flip and use all of those on the fly was difficult to learn but extremely rewarding once you got it down. If I was limited to 10 skills total, I'm sure I could still have fun with it, but I wouldn't be able to do what I could do with my druid, and I enjoyed playing that class.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 05:12
|
|
|
Direwolf posted:Yeah I think they're both design choices but there's nothing redundant about the way that WoW does skills. I played a druid for years and years, which is a class with a full set of utility spells, damage spells, and 3-4 different possible transformations with their own unique skillsets as well, and being able to flip and use all of those on the fly was difficult to learn but extremely rewarding once you got it down. If I was limited to 10 skills total, I'm sure I could still have fun with it, but I wouldn't be able to do what I could do with my druid, and I enjoyed playing that class. So true I used to love how you could do stuff like instantly change into a bear for extra armor change back into human form to pop a heal then change back into a cat to speed away into the sunset. Druid was a great class not sure what they are like now last thing I remember was they were making bestiality tree better. I missed the steam anyone know how quick they normally put it on youtube? My samsung galaxy tab3 wont play twitch tv videos forsome reason, also was this steam any good?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 05:20
|
|
|
Bashez posted:I haven't ever put any emotes up on my hotbars. You haven't lived until you spam /fart by pressing 1 over and over and it fills the chat area around you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 05:24
|
|
|
Direwolf posted:Yeah I think they're both design choices but there's nothing redundant about the way that WoW does skills. I played a druid for years and years, which is a class with a full set of utility spells, damage spells, and 3-4 different possible transformations with their own unique skillsets as well, and being able to flip and use all of those on the fly was difficult to learn but extremely rewarding once you got it down. If I was limited to 10 skills total, I'm sure I could still have fun with it, but I wouldn't be able to do what I could do with my druid, and I enjoyed playing that class. I feel you, sometimes you had to spam wild growth, and sometimes you had to spam lifebloom and rejuv. Ok ok, that's facetious. How about we agree that the content is more important - if the most important thing is DPS (or HPS), it makes for boring PvE gameplay in which flexiblity/control/utility doesn't much matter, regardless of whether you have lots of abilities (WoW raids) or not many (GW2, auto-attack to win). Speaking of which, I just saw that bosses have CC shields ie. defiant from GW2, which makes control not that enjoyable. Will it work in this game because you have true tanks/healers?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 05:28
|
|
|
Doh004 posted:I dunno, I enjoy having a large amount of action slots so that I can fill them with different macros of the /fart emote. The main thing I noticed about the video is there is still no autoattack so he was spamming the poo poo out of 1 to build kinetic energy. They need to copy GW2 and have an autocast toggle for the basic builder attacks.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 05:46
|
|
|
hampig posted:Speaking of which, I just saw that bosses have CC shields ie. defiant from GW2, which makes control not that enjoyable. Will it work in this game because you have true tanks/healers? I'm pretty sure there's supposed to be some sort of system in wildstar where if enough CC hits a boss within a window, one of them will go through. Is that how gw2 did it, or was defiant CC immunity? Sekret fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 09:33
|
|
|
Well, one way to reduce actionbar bloat without cutting out too many abilities would be setting up a chain of skills like TERA did. It had a skill that'd pop you back up if you got knocked down, and it'd pop up as a prompt when you did fall down. You'd just hit spacebar to use it. It basically lets you take a bunch of less-used abilities and assign them to one button and they just give you a simple prompt to use them when the conditions are met. Hotkey 1 -> 2 -> 3 could be replaced by 1 -> Spacebar -> Spacebar. The current model they've gone with looks fine anyway.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 09:39
|
|
|
I like the limited actions. Honestly, I'd be down for say, 8 class abilities/attacks (that you pick/upgrade out of a pool of let's say 25 per class), and 4-6 item/equipment activated abilities (out of hundreds of items). Basically, World of DotA. ...WoDotA? In a game with telegraphs and emphasis on staying mobile, I don't want to have to juggle 40 drat hotkeys/action bar slots.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 09:59
|
|
|
I played WoW for only a month at release and I've seen some screenshot since that basically have the entire screen filled with UI elements, it looks godawful compared to how I remember it. Cleaner and minimalist is definitely the way to go.Sekret posted:I'm pretty sure there's supposed to be some sort of system in wildstar where if enough CC hits a boss within a window, one of them will go through. Is that how gw2 did it, or was defiant CC immunity? Defiance is a stack of cc immunity (not all cc, just the cool ones) that bosses have, each time the boss gets hit with cc one of the stacks is removed until it has none. Problem is as soon as it gets hit with cc when it has no immunity the stacks go back up, it's a lovely system that makes cc lackluster against bosses and from comments the devs have made it looks like its time is up in the future. So in wildstar an enemy gets hit with a bunch of cc in a small amount of time one might get through? Reclines Obesily fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 10:04
|
|
|
I'm going mostly from this video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt0k5CC27Ww&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL4Yt7jkWoyvmmnQIbaIEOR_AY-smwRt1l The description of 'interrupt armor' sounds exactly like defiance - although it doesn't say whether it goes back up, but obviously you can't have people stunlocking a boss, unless hard CC is so rare you'd use it all up anyway I guess.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 12:20
|
|
|
Deceptive Thinker posted:Isn't any "element of choice" in an MMO always solvable for the most part? Unless you make everything strictly on "utility" abilities, or make the customization so trivial that it doesn't matter, of course Then why leave an option for people to gently caress up and have to pay to rectify it, yes every talent system with actual impact has an optimal setting but why bother making it complex so people can fail? What benefit does it give offering customisation when one option is simply going to be better?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 16:45
|
|
|
Well crap, how is hoverboards what got me interested in this game again? Probably because it's just more reason to believe that I won't feel like I'm locked to a single plodding movement speed. I love how open the zones look, and with this they should be fun to move around too. drat, I guess I'm back on the hype train. Scooch over Arus.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 17:59
|
|
|
Stormgale posted:Then why leave an option for people to gently caress up and have to pay to rectify it, yes every talent system with actual impact has an optimal setting but why bother making it complex so people can fail? What benefit does it give offering customisation when one option is simply going to be better? I think the goal is always to make every option viable - the question is whether or not that actually happens
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 18:06
|
|
|
Deceptive Thinker posted:I think the goal is always to make every option viable - the question is whether or not that actually happens That's always the goal, that basically never happens. For a designer, you could go "well it'll work this time!" but no user will believe that. Ever. It has no solid track record no matter how awesome the developer is. The designers should hopefully realize this and not punish people for locking into what's inevitably going to be a flawed system for a long while. If the respec fee is more "money dump" than "make sure you always make the right choice!" I guess that's okay but it's... offering PvP power. That's pretty odd. We should have multiple specs, most of the game orients towards "you can switch between whatever you want as long as you're out of combat so you can make a sweet build for whatever situation you just gotta unlock the stuff and press a button and bam" but this is the only situation that doesn't seem to follow that same design philosophy which baffles me. So yeah, this design decision is inconsistent with the whole of their philosophy at a glance. Normally I'm pretty "okay I can live with this that's their opinion" with stuff like 40 man raids but this just straight up defies what they've set us up to expect. anime was right fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 18:48
|
|
|
Have they said how their dodge works? Does it make you evade hits like GW2 or is it just a burst of speed for getting out of a telegraph, or some combo of both?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 19:45
|
|
|
Pretty sure I have seen in the movement video the player dodging through fire spewing traps so it probably has some invincibility
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 19:55
|
|
|
Deceptive Thinker posted:I think the goal is always to make every option viable - the question is whether or not that actually happens I think a good target to aim for is to have many builds be viable, fun alternatives, even if they aren't optimal. Allowing players to horse around with silly gimmick builds is a ton of fun. I really liked messing around with builds in GW2, seeing if I could make odd weapon pairs work well together and such.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 20:20
|
|
|
Waterbed posted:That's always the goal, that basically never happens. Making every build viable never happens, but some designs work better than others. Talents tree work much less well than designs that are more like Diablo 3/the latest WoW expansion. Waterbed posted:So yeah, this design decision is inconsistent with the whole of their philosophy at a glance. Normally I'm pretty "okay I can live with this that's their opinion" with stuff like 40 man raids but this just straight up defies what they've set us up to expect. I gotta say yeah, this game looks great, but what's up with them latching onto certain Vanilla WoW design decisions that everyone figured out were terrible ideas 5 years ago? hampig fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 21:34
|
|
|
hampig posted:I gotta say yeah, this game looks great, but what's up with them latching onto certain Vanilla WoW design decisions that everyone figured out were terrible ideas 5 years ago? My guess? the "vocal minority" on the forums
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 21:53
|
|
|
hampig posted:I gotta say yeah, this game looks great, but what's up with them latching onto certain Vanilla WoW design decisions that everyone figured out were terrible ideas 5 years ago? I absolutely loved talent specs in wow and being able to alter my character the way I saw fit. After reading about it basically just being a decision between being bad and being right I really didn't have a good reason to say they should stay. I still like them, and I was able to develop a combat spec that was extremely successful in pvp when everyone was mutilate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 22:30
|
|
|
Remembering some past hilarity from the thread, did the Death and Taxes guy ever get into the game?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 22:31
|
|
|
hampig posted:I gotta say yeah, this game looks great, but what's up with them latching onto certain Vanilla WoW design decisions that everyone figured out were terrible ideas 5 years ago? It's not even talents that really bother me, or whatever variation it is. It's the the respec cost only. Latch onto whatever gold sinks you want as long as they don't go against every other design decision presented up to this point. Everything is swap on the fly, except one thing that can potentially hamstring you in PvP because there's a dedicated tree to PvP. So gosh darned silly. There will be better PvP loadouts too, so just let us segregate our raiding, PvP, and gimmick sets or whatever like with every other feature in the game 
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 22:39
|
|
|
I'm gonna assume the talent system will get some serious work in the next beta. So far, they've been really good with fixing awful design decisions in response to feedback. except for 40 mans 
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 22:43
|
|
|
40 mans are a terrible idea and I'm hoping they'll figure that out early on. I'd say if its anything like most 40 man raids, most players won't see the content or at the least won't complete it. The remainder of the players who are willing to schedule their lives around playing an MMO will have the raid put on farm status in a week. There is no way the developers can possibly put out enough content for these players to be happy and the rest of the players won't even be experiencing it. Its a terrible idea and the only thing that really worries me about this game. On top of most players not seeing the content and having to schedule it, 40 mans are terrible because its really hard to actually get to know people in 40 mans. First of all, thats a lot of people to get to know in a video games guild. Second, nearly everyone has to be quiet otherwise its a clusterfuck. I know there are probably some tight-knit raiding guilds, but for the most part when I was in one I'd simply join, do my scheduled raid, and be done. I kind of felt like any raiding guild I was in was just a stepping stone for someone to join one of the more 'elite' guilds. Basically, 40 mans also don't really encourage you to get to know other players. eonwe fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 23:21
|
|
|
Are 40 people the only way to see or do the content? I'm okay with it if there's scaled down versions for the majority (preferably all) of them since smaller raids with friends are fun and the option would still be there for people that like it, but if it's 40 or bust then I'm not so excited for them. I know there's some people that like the larger sizes, but they just feel like so much of a cluster-gently caress to me. Aside from tanks, individual contributions were lessened to such a degree, even for healers, that it's possible for a handful of people to contribute nothing to the fight and not much would change.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2013 23:29
|
|
|
Stormgale posted:Then why leave an option for people to gently caress up and have to pay to rectify it, yes every talent system with actual impact has an optimal setting but why bother making it complex so people can fail? What benefit does it give offering customisation when one option is simply going to be better? Because one option is not simply going to be better. To take WoW's pre-Cata talent trees as an example, there were variations on the "optimal" PvE mage build (albeit minor ones, I will grant). One variant was optimal for a fight where you could just stand still and hit your buttons without paying attention to anything, but another was better for fights where you were likely to have to move and thus interrupt your rotation. Another was better for fights where you were going to be taking some damage as a matter of course. Likewise, there were variations on the cookie-cutter PvP spec that did some things slightly better and some things slightly worse. Now, although I don't know for sure, I highly doubt there's that much available to mages. Complex systems allow (if done right, at least) fine-tuning of a base setting. Simple systems create one or two obvious optimal settings and that's the end of it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 04:45
|
|
|
what I got out of this is flying mounts that look like surfboards. Not impressed and won't be suckered in. Eonwe posted:Ultimately the payment plan doesn't bother me, because they are getting less money out of me with a sub. If this was a $60 + cash shop thing, I'd probably drop a few hundred on it without trying. I typically don't really buy anything out of the cash shop if I'm already doing a sub though. Last I heard it was sub + cash shop + 60 up front. This changed? Al Borland fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Nov 11, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 07:24
|
|
|
From what I saw it's sub + EvE PLEXes
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 08:24
|
|
|
Al Borland posted:what I got out of this is flying mounts that look like surfboards. A peanut butter and jelly sandwich is just two types of sweet toppings mashed together with bread. The Lion King is just Hamlet that looks like lions. Just because something doesn't bring a new and revolutionary idea to the table doesn't mean it's not awesome!
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 13:08
|
|
|
Al Borland posted:Last I heard it was sub + cash shop + 60 up front. http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/the-game/business-model/ Short version: box + cash shop + sub. However, the sub (month at a time) can be traded as an item and bought on the cash shop. So if you made enough money, depending on the market, you could play without paying a sub fee.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 14:14
|
|
|
I feel like a lot of people are under the impression that they'll be rolling in cash because they're 'good at MMOs' and will never have to fork over cash for a sub. That's all well and good, but I don't see that happening for the vast majority of players. It's certainly possible to make enough isk to PLEX multiple eve accounts without flinching, but that's just not the case for all but a small number of players. I'd go so far as to say that the opposite case is far more common. It will be interesting to see how that affects the typical 'lose 75% of the remaining population every month after release' curve. It might end up being good, since people can just cash out and buy an extra month if they're bored with the game as opposed to un-subbing and never looking back.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 14:26
|
|
|
Yeah it also doesn't take into account the rate of inflation in these sort of games is much higher than in a game like EVE. Unless they have a really good money sink system in place it will just go to the point that only the hardest of market manipulators/poopsockers at cap will be able to afford them. TERA was kinda odd about its sub item thing. It was laughably easy to get the gold required for a month of game time. Mostly because there were a lot of deep pocket people spending hundreds of dollars gambling to get their perfect roll gear.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 14:30
|
|
|
Cao Ni Ma posted:Yeah it also doesn't take into account the rate of inflation in these sort of games is much higher than in a game like EVE. Unless they have a really good money sink system in place it will just go to the point that only the hardest of market manipulators/poopsockers at cap will be able to afford them. Luckily they are putting design and thought into the concept of money sinks for this very reason. They're even trying to account for inflation and resource fonts. Hopefully this means the game won't suffer as badly as some of the others have in the past.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 14:39
|
|
|
xZAOx posted:http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/the-game/business-model/
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 15:34
|
|
|
tjume posted:Hmm can't find anything about a cash shop / micro-transactions on that site. Subscription and a cash shop would be too much for me. Hrm, I took the CX to be a cash shop, but reading again, that may strictly be just the auction house. However, to buy subscription time, it's obvious that'll be something they have on the CX, provided by Wildstar, so it's not a pure player-only auction house. I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that if they're putting a subscription item on the CX, that they'd have other things as well - but maybe they won't. If they have a sub though, my guess is that you won't "need" any micro-transactions to play. I mean, hell, even WoW has a cash shop of sorts (all the mounts, pets, etc you can buy). I'm expecting it to be more like that, but including the subscription item, and you can buy the CX currency (CREDD) with both money or in-game gold.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 15:43
|
|
|
http://www.wildstarfans.net/2013/08/gortok-on-wildstar-commodities-exchange.htmlquote:We have both the Commodities Exchange and an Auction House. The CX is really only for high traffic generic items like crafting materials. Our current implementation of the CX has several metrics to tell you the "going price" for the item you are trying to sell. We would like to add more later.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 15:58
|
|
|
Well perhaps they are using the CX to work without a bidding mechanism, similar to how FFXIV works or GW2 if it is for products that move in volume that would make sense, allowing them to have the proper bidding/auction mechanic for the stuff on the AH?
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 16:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 14:44 |
|
|
Some cool UI elements, etc. from the stream: http://imgur.com/a/EKcCq
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2013 16:06
|
|
