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Oxford Comma posted:I'm more terrified of rabid unicorns devouring me than the thought of China nuking the US, if for no other reason than the US is too economically important to China. Yep. It seems unlikely that China would engage in military action when their ability to destroy our economy (granted, at a great loss to their own) involves less risk and more possibility of success.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:18
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Sacrilage posted:Yep. It seems unlikely that China would engage in military action when their ability to destroy our economy (granted, at a great loss to their own) involves less risk and more possibility of success. Its part of why the crazy right wingers who say China will call in our debts are hilarious. They wouldn't shoot the goose that lays the golden eggs like that.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:19
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movax posted:It's always Space Navy in science-fiction (except for Stargate I guess and we all saw how that ended up) drat straight, and yes. Aussies are doing quite well; on the up and up, based on my last work with them.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:20
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CommieGIR posted:Its part of why the crazy right wingers who say China will call in our debts are hilarious. They don't have to wait long; at their current rate of growth, they will eventually have little need of the golden egg, and they'll be sitting on 10 years worth of government spending in US bonds alone.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:21
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Sacrilage posted:They don't have to wait long; at their current rate of growth, they will eventually have little need of the golden egg, and they'll be sitting on 10 years worth of government spending in US bonds alone. Still not likely that they'd call in any debts, and considering in reality they only own slightly more than Japan does of US debt, I doubt that they'd have the weight to screw everyone else in the world. Its just not a realistic scenario, and they have their own economic issues to deal with that are only growing worse, especially considering their currency manipulation issues.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:24
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CommieGIR posted:Still not likely that they'd call in any debts, and considering in reality they only own slightly more than Japan does of US debt, I doubt that they'd have the weight to screw everyone else in the world. Reasonable conclusion, to be sure; I worry only that they will one day decide to be unreasonable. Not likely, but neither is a China Red Dawn scenario.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:27
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Sacrilage posted:Reasonable conclusion, to be sure; I worry only that they will one day decide to be unreasonable. Not likely, but neither is a China Red Dawn scenario. Yep. Although now we can't live up to our 1980s invasion snuff films  Oh well, maybe next decade.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:33
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I vote for Canada. It's been 200 years, they're due for a retry.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:43
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Sacrilage posted:I vote for Canada. It's been 200 years, they're due for a retry. They've just been biding their time, no wonder they've been so patient and friendly.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:44
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Sacrilage posted:Yep. It seems unlikely that China would engage in military action when their ability to destroy our economy (granted, at a great loss to their own) involves less risk and more possibility of success. Of course, foreign debt meets gently caress-all in any conflict that results in hurling nukes at each other. If something is worth killing hundreds of millions of people to the leaders involved, do you think trade relations or debt is going to enter the picture? Both economies would be devastated regardless. It does, however, represent a very strong incentive to keep any isolated conflict... isolated.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:59
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Granted, and definitely not arguing; I am, rather, pointing out the complete and utter disparity in military power. Compared to our ability to dominate their own seas, it is more likely that China wins an economic battle than a military battle. E: and yes, I think that China would be more likely to brush an incident under the table than the US would. Very cold-war style.
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Nov 12, 2013 01:18
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Sacrilage posted:Granted, and definitely not arguing; I am, rather, pointing out the complete and utter disparity in military power. Compared to our ability to dominate their own seas, it is more likely that China wins an economic battle than a military battle. Does this mean the US gets to play the rogue nation, all torpedoing destroyers and shelling islands?
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Nov 12, 2013 03:03
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Man Needs Millions to Bring Corpus Christi Submarine to Townquote:CORPUS CHRISTI - A Navy veteran says it would cost $10-$15 million to bring the USS City of Corpus Christi to the coastal bend as a floating museum.
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Nov 12, 2013 03:59
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Once the class is decommed, I give it 50-50. The SS tech is still very classified, though somewhat antiquated.
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Nov 12, 2013 04:15
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I'm curious to hear from some submarine veterans on why they chose submarine duty, and would they still have chosen subs if they knew then what they know now?movax posted:It's always Space Navy in science-fiction (except for Stargate I guess and we all saw how that ended up) Former astronaut Mike Mullane related an anecdote in his book about the time he (as an Air Force officer) and his Navy aviator fellow astronaut went to the Pentagon to be awarded medals for a completed Shuttle mission. The Navy made a big happy production of it with lots of brass and rah-rah speeches about taking the high ground... and the Air Force ceremony consisted of a surly one-star general bitching about how space dollars should be going to transport planes instead. If there's ever an expeditionary space force, it's going to be the Navy, because the Air Force won't be bothered to have anything to do with it. almighty posted:Bombers are quite useless in our age IMHO, except for gimmicks such as B-2. My understanding is that in an all-out nuclear attack, most bomber-carried weapons wouldn't be gravity bombs, they'd be nuclear-tipped cruise missiles that can be launched from over a thousand miles away. Defending against a swarm of several hundred cruise missiles would be rather difficult. edit: although yeah bombers would be the first leg of the triad I would cut
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Nov 12, 2013 05:07
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I'm curious to hear from some submarine veterans on why they chose submarine duty, and would they still have chosen subs if they knew then what they know now? Didn't really choose it; got volun-told. But all in all, yes, I would do submarines again. It's been rough, but like a lot of things that are hard, I value the work and personal progress it required to see it through. I learned a great deal about myself and my leadership style that have become invaluable to my character. I think the experiences will serve me well for a long time. Not to mention the great relationships with a crew of really awesome and dedicated people. I can say that now, happy and at home and only now beginning the pain of dealing with the VA for the sub-related problems that I've developed, so maybe ask me again in 5 years.
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Nov 12, 2013 05:19
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I wanted to have experiences and stories that no one else I knew would ever have, that no amount of money could buy. It turned out that most of those stories sucked and I can't tell any of them at least for a decade or more anyway. Some of the poo poo was pretty cool, though. Being a submarine nuke did pull me out of kind of a life-holding-pattern into where I'm extremely employable in even this poo poo economy, and I have the GI Bill if I want to explore other options, so it definitely has its perks.
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Nov 12, 2013 05:24
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All i know is the stuff was spinning and I wrote the numbers down and then we told racist/homophobic jokes to each other :usa:
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Nov 12, 2013 05:24
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Also my racist / homophobic jokes were honed to a razor keen, yes
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Nov 12, 2013 05:26
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We had a COB that turned out to be extremely homophobic, and it came out during the Christmas party. The next workday, everyone, and I do mean everyone, was walking around holding hands, rubbing shoulders, laughing fabulously, etc. I thought the dude was going to have a fit and die on the spot. Pure comedic excellence, that.
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Nov 12, 2013 05:45
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How can you be homophobic in the submarine service without being a self-hating trainwreck?
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Nov 12, 2013 05:48
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Mortabis posted:How can you be homophobic in the submarine service without being a self-hating trainwreck? Submarine life involves submerging through several thermocline layers of irony
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Nov 12, 2013 05:53
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Snowdens Secret posted:Having warheads other countries can aim at reliably is to some degree a net positive for deterrence. How long deterrence matters is a different question. Since 9/11 boats have had to have more in-port watches 24/7, add on top of that the extra watch rotations for keeping an eye on the nukes would be loving horrible for the crew. So ya do it. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I'm curious to hear from some submarine veterans on why they chose submarine duty, and would they still have chosen subs if they knew then what they know now? The year was 1993. Clinton was in office and my family had zero money for me to go to college due to my dad spending it all, and my job prospect was to work some bullshit retail/fastfood job that I would have had to commute to 30+ minutes each way due to living on top of a mountain in any attempt to pay for school myself. So I looked at the army and the navy. I wanted a 'computer' job or to fly helicoptors as a warrant in the army. Army offered me 'Signals intelligence ~airborne~'. I said gently caress you. The navy offered me 'data processor' (which the job description read as data entry and switching TAPES on machines ~think reel-to-reel really old poo poo~) and 'sonar technician submarines'. So as a sonar tech I did end up working with computers, in a way. The mainframes for the sonar system was a pair of 8086 RISC towers 7 foot tall, the computer for doing the sonar seach plans was slightly better than an apple //e that took 3-4 hours to do a plan on and was later upgraded to a 486 RISC system that only took about 30 minutes. Would I have still done it? Most likely yes. The prospects were really poo poo for me any way I looked at it. Oh and to be fully honest the only time I did my real job as a sonar tech was when we went on westpac, and it was actually really drat fun to do.
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Nov 12, 2013 05:57
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Sacrilage posted:We had a COB that turned out to be extremely homophobic, and it came out during the Christmas party. The next workday, everyone, and I do mean everyone, was walking around holding hands, rubbing shoulders, laughing fabulously, etc. I thought the dude was going to have a fit and die on the spot. Pure comedic excellence, that. He would have loved the a-gang on my boat. AoW turnover in control was normally done with a french kiss and an rear end grab.
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Nov 12, 2013 05:58
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Mortabis posted:How can you be homophobic in the submarine service without being a self-hating trainwreck? Snowdens Secret posted:Submarine life involves submerging through several thermocline layers of irony Yep. Lots and lots of ironic denial.
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Nov 12, 2013 06:32
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ded posted:He would have loved the a-gang on my boat. AoW turnover in control was normally done with a french kiss and an rear end grab. Heh, I like your boat, that's hilarious. Totally unsat, but hilarious.
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Nov 12, 2013 06:32
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Sacrilage posted:unsat 
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Nov 12, 2013 06:40
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Sacrilage posted:I can say that now, happy and at home and only now beginning the pain of dealing with the VA for the sub-related problems that I've developed, so maybe ask me again in 5 years. What has working on submarines done to you, if you don't mind my asking?
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Nov 12, 2013 17:41
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:What has working on submarines done to you, if you don't mind my asking? it showed me how poo poo life rly was at a tender age
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Nov 12, 2013 17:44
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:What has working on submarines done to you, if you don't mind my asking? genderstomper58 posted:it showed me how poo poo life rly was at a tender age In addition to the above sentiment, I lost a ton of my hearing in the 3000-4000 Hz range (went from -10 to 40 in 4 years); turns out that the lovely earplugs in the Navy APL don't work that well. I also got diagnosed with severe Sleep Apnea pretty recently. I had always scoffed at the notion that submarine service causes sleep apnea, thinking people were creating placebo effect sleeping problems. Fortunately my Doc at my shore duty is a good guy, and kept pulling the string on my high blood pressure (from lots of coffee, from being really tired in the day, from "Uh, I don't know, I'm just tired"). They got me one of of those handy dandy sleep monitors, and it turns out, I stop breathing for ~13 seconds every 2.1 minutes. I learned just recently, when the sleep doc explained it, the chronic high CO2 on the submarine, coupled with the low 02 levels, will cause your body to adapt over multiple deployments and in frequent cases causes sleep apnea as the body adjusts to the new "normal" CO2 levels in your blood. Once you get off the sub, it can make your sleep patterns problematic. It actually makes a lot of sense in retrospect, since the best sleep I ever got was during those rare times when I got kicked on watch and could sleep 6+ hours on the submarine. Felt like a million bucks, much better than 8-10 hours now. Anyhow, it now requires a CPAP machine, which is a massive pain in the rear end, and regular doctor visits to attempt to undo the damage. Not life altering, but definitely a quality of life issue, now that I am sleeping well again.
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Nov 13, 2013 02:08
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Sacrilage posted:
Read that as CRAP machine and it's way funnier.
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Nov 13, 2013 02:38
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My first roommate in college had a CPAP machine, but his sleep apnea was due to morbid obesity.
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Nov 13, 2013 03:15
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I'm curious to hear from some submarine veterans on why they chose submarine duty, and would they still have chosen subs if they knew then what they know now? And after 4 boats, and retirement, I'd still go submarines. The thought of being on some grab rear end surface vessel that's a target for anything from a sub launched cruise missile to some mental patients in a jihad speedboat is just too hosed up to contemplate. Missions in the early 80's and 90's were great, but when we were sent off the coast of some South American country to sit at PD for 30 days and listen for a fishing boat, supposedly smuggling THE DRUGS, just sealed it for me. Time to punch out. And: 688 as a museum? gently caress no. Maybe cut the sail off and plant it in someone's yard, that's about it.
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Nov 13, 2013 03:23
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Mortabis posted:but his sleep apnea was due to morbid obesity. Not out of the question for some submariners.
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Nov 13, 2013 03:28
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Fart Sandwiches posted:Not out of the question for Fixed that. Gotta love that waiver. Like freedom in an ice cream sundae.
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Nov 13, 2013 04:16
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monkeyboy posted:Missions in the early 80's and 90's were great, but when we were sent off the coast of some South American country to sit at PD for 30 days and listen for a fishing boat, supposedly smuggling THE DRUGS, just sealed it for me. Time to punch out. drat, you were in during the salad days. Any Blind Man's Bluff-esque stuff you are able and caring enough to talk/brag about?
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Nov 14, 2013 15:42
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Koesj posted:drat, you were in during the salad days. I too would like to hear about any such stories Submariners might be able to share here without violating anything.
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Nov 15, 2013 00:02
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I don't need classified stuff, I just want Old Navy port call stories
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Nov 15, 2013 00:41
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I want all the classified stuff  I really need to get a clearance and work for the navy and be even gayer than grover.
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Nov 15, 2013 01:30
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almighty posted:I too would like to hear about any such stories Submariners might be able to share here without violating anything. I know what the fathometer of an Oscar II sounds like.
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Nov 15, 2013 02:21
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