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Basically, because all of them are poo poo except VS, and god help me if I ever have to develop for Windows.
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Nov 18, 2013 16:00
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evensevenone posted:Basically, because all of them are poo poo except VS, and god help me if I ever have to develop for Windows. KDevelop 4 is loving beautiful for C and C++.
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Nov 18, 2013 16:07
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evensevenone posted:Basically, because all of them are poo poo except VS, and god help me if I ever have to develop for Windows. PyCharm is pretty drat good.
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Nov 18, 2013 16:18
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Pollyanna posted:Lol @ u if you're using an IDE, clearly you're a subpar coder and also a nooblet. Seriously, what's wrong with IDEs? They're incredibly helpful and make organizing a project a lot easier. There's nothing wrong with IDEs, but a lot of people (myself included) just prefer to code in a text editor. At my job I do cross platform dev for windows and various *NIXes, and while I can use VS I have a much faster workflow with just using tmux + vim in an SSH session.
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Nov 18, 2013 16:27
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Personally I find IDEs very distracting and invasive to my workflow, and for small projects the benefits in navigation and refactoring don't remotely outweigh this negative. In larger projects- especially when I'm working with a codebase someone else wrote- I spend more of my time reading and navigating than writing new code, so an IDE starts to become worthwhile.
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Nov 18, 2013 16:30
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Are you just faster at vi(m)/emacs motions and auto complete or are you actually distracted somehow? I've used Eclipse/IDEA and VS, and also done a little stuff in sublime (javascript stuff so my linter can, well, lint) and haven't found too much of a difference. The only debugging I've ever done was all in an IDE, never gdb or the like. I just don't see how IDEs are distracting.
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Nov 18, 2013 17:28
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2banks1swap.avi posted:Are you just faster at vi(m)/emacs motions and auto complete or are you actually distracted somehow? Yeah and if it's the text editing stuff that you prefer for vim/emacs/whatever then there are plugins that add those to IDEs. The VsVim plugin for visual studio is quite good.
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Nov 18, 2013 17:45
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The big reason I like vim over IDEs is that I'm a web developer with lots of clients/projects and I spend all day bouncing around to different machines where I can't afford time to set up a proper development environment every time. It's nice that I can pull my customized vim on to almost any linux machine with just git.
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Nov 18, 2013 17:47
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As a .net developer (my day job), I can understand the confusion over why anyone would choose not to use a "fat" IDE. Visual studio has fantastic integration, and for the most part stays out of your way. I think it would be a pain in the rear end writing .net code without it (though it does have some truly infuriating behaviour at times - for example, in 2012 or later quick search in a SQL file defaults to global search, unlike most other file types, and I can't find a way to disable it). Once you step out of that world though, things can be very different. In my free time, my programming projects use all sorts of different languages, and several environments simply don't have a good IDE. Vim works well for literally every language I have learned so far, on every platform and loads in a fraction of a second. It has a horrible learning curve, but once you're over that hump you'll forever curse other editors for their lack of various features, plugins or shortcuts. Or just for making you reach for the mouse every few minutes. I'm sure the same can be said of emacs, etc. Also, the time I tried using Eclipse for Java (probably 5 or so years ago now) it was a huge, slow, bloated piece of poo poo with a terrible UI and missing a lot of the functionality I was used to from VS. At the time a number of people had told me it was the best option, so that soured me toward non-MS IDEs.
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Nov 18, 2013 18:16
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I use vim for editing text just about everywhere, but if you're doing your actual development in a remote shell there's a good chance you're doing it wrong. Code should live in a VCS and be edited and tested locally before going out to a remote.
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Nov 18, 2013 18:22
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I haven't done any Java work in a couple years, but in the middle of using Eclipse I went from a platter drive to an SSD, and all of a sudden it didn't make any difference if it was bloated. I mean, it was still poo poo, but being slow and bloated wasn't a contributing factor to its state of being poo poo.
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Nov 18, 2013 18:22
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IDEA has always been pleasant to work with. If Eclipse isn't your bag, give it a shot.
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Nov 18, 2013 18:26
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Houston Rockets posted:I use vim for editing text just about everywhere, but if you're doing your actual development in a remote shell there's a good chance you're doing it wrong. Code should live in a VCS and be edited and tested locally before going out to a remote. I have access to our version control on all of my remote *nix hosts. And I can't exactly edit and test a solaris specific fix on a local windows machine.
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Nov 18, 2013 18:31
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astr0man posted:I have access to our version control on all of my remote *nix hosts. And I can't exactly edit and test a solaris specific fix on a local windows machine. Virtual machines?
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Nov 18, 2013 18:45
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Eleeleth posted:Virtual machines? Well technically all of my remote hosts are virtual machines. They just live on an esx server.
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Nov 18, 2013 18:47
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I use IDEs and text editors. They're good tools that each have strengths and weaknesses in certain areas. Use whichever one works best for your needs at whatever time.
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Nov 18, 2013 18:52
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Pollyanna posted:I use IDEs and text editors. They're good tools that each have strengths and weaknesses in certain areas. Use whichever one works best for your needs at whatever time. Didn't you just start programming?
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Nov 18, 2013 18:59
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Doesn't stop him from being right 
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Nov 18, 2013 19:01
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Thermopyle posted:Didn't you just start programming? They grow up so fast... 
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Nov 18, 2013 19:04
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Yeah, I use VS2012 for all of my .net source (and MonoDebug when I have to deal with that bullshit) and then I use sublime for all of my configs, project files, xmls, sql files, etc etc etc
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Nov 18, 2013 19:43
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Spatial posted:Haha. Buy an SSD already. I've had it happen with regularity on a Core i7 machine with an SSD. Parsing C++ really is just that terrible.
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Nov 18, 2013 19:49
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..btt posted:and several environments simply don't have a good IDE. Real programmers solve this by writing their own IDE.
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Nov 18, 2013 20:54
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Zhentar posted:Real programmers solve this by writing their own IDE. And since there are no good operating systems, real programmers solve that by writing their own. *thread comes full circle back to TempleOS*
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Nov 18, 2013 21:02
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Well, the only code you can trust to be secure is code you wrote yourself.
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Nov 18, 2013 21:24
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qntm posted:Well, the only code you can trust to be secure is code you wrote yourself. Haha no. Have you read this thread at all?
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Nov 18, 2013 21:38
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Working without Go To Definition would slow me down massively and I'd hate it. Nothing else the IDE does is as important as that.
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Nov 18, 2013 21:46
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Rottbott posted:Working without Go To Definition would slow me down massively and I'd hate it. Nothing else the IDE does is as important as that. This isn't an IDE exclusive feature. vim can do it with tag files.
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Nov 18, 2013 21:57
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For static languages like Java, I feel naked not using an IDE. Organize my own imports? What do I look like, a maid? It's just so much more efficient to let the tooling use static analysis to do the grunt work for me. For dynamic languages I use regularly (Python, Ruby, Javascript), I prefer just going with Sublime Text. IDEs get in my way too much there and don't add as much benefit, at least for what I'm doing.
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Nov 18, 2013 22:09
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astr0man posted:This isn't an IDE exclusive feature. vim can do it with tag files. At that point is it really fair to say you're not using an IDE?
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Nov 18, 2013 22:27
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ratbert90 posted:Haha no. Have you read this thread at all? I was being facetious. I can't trust code written by anybody, least of all myself.
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Nov 18, 2013 22:47
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How many of the people claiming to "only" use a text editor have enough plugins loaded up to effectively make them IDEs? Even when I'm using Sublime or Emacs I usually have enough features loaded in (incremental compilation, REPLs, syntax highlighting, goto def, snippets, tags, etc.) that they're effectively mini-IDEs.
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Nov 18, 2013 22:59
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rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:How many of the people claiming to "only" use a text editor have enough plugins loaded up to effectively make them IDEs? Even when I'm using Sublime or Emacs I usually have enough features loaded in (incremental compilation, REPLs, syntax highlighting, goto def, snippets, tags, etc.) that they're effectively mini-IDEs. Back in my days writing perl, I just used a bare-bones vim editor with a gussied up .vimrc that just covered syntax highlighting. The thing of it is, you can't really get any useful IDE features out of a language that relies so heavily on runtime shenanigans for everything, so there's no point. Putty/vim/bash/screen and a handful of scripts to do searches and such, and that was all I used for years. Static languages, though, I use an IDE. Static analysis is pretty great.
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Nov 18, 2013 23:05
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Smalltalk is essentially runtime shenanigans all the way down and it has good IDEs 
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Nov 18, 2013 23:50
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rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:How many of the people claiming to "only" use a text editor have enough plugins loaded up to effectively make them IDEs? Even when I'm using Sublime or Emacs I usually have enough features loaded in (incremental compilation, REPLs, syntax highlighting, goto def, snippets, tags, etc.) that they're effectively mini-IDEs. I use syntax highlight and automatic formatting in emacs and that's pretty much it.
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Nov 19, 2013 00:07
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Thermopyle posted:Didn't you just start programming? Never too young to learn to be an rear end
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Nov 19, 2013 00:32
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I'm open to being talked out of this, but my position is that people who think dynamic language IDE's don't do Feature X from their favorite static language IDE just haven't surveyed the field very well. IDE's for dynamic languages can be 99% as good as ones for static languages. It's just not as easy to create such an IDE and thus a larger portion of the IDEs available for dynamic languages don't do what you want. I was going to say "just look at PyCharm", but I'm not sure I want to go down the rabbit hole of figuring out how exactly to compare whatever abilities you think a static language gives to an IDE for that language to whatever ability you think is the equivalent for a dynamic language.
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Nov 19, 2013 00:40
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bobua posted:At that point is it really fair to say you're not using an IDE? It's a "DE" but not an "IDE" in the sense that it's not an all-in-one tool, but the blurry line between a single program that has modules that do a bunch of stuff and multiple programs working in concert to do the same thing is not an important distinction in the first place.
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Nov 19, 2013 00:52
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No Safe Word posted:It's a "DE" but not an "IDE" in the sense that it's not an all-in-one tool, but the blurry line between a single program that has modules that do a bunch of stuff and multiple programs working in concert to do the same thing is not an important distinction in the first place. My opinion is that if it has an integrated debugger it's an IDE, otherwise it's an editor. Source navigation, autocomplete, refactoring tools etc. are all just components of an editor, for editing code.
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Nov 19, 2013 01:56
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Houston Rockets posted:I use vim for editing text just about everywhere, but if you're doing your actual development in a remote shell there's a good chance you're doing it wrong. Code should live in a VCS and be edited and tested locally before going out to a remote. You'd be amazed what you have to resort to when you are forced to code in a locked room on an airgapped network.
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Nov 19, 2013 03:55
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You haven't tasted fear until you've hacked a disarm code in assembly while a time bomb strapped to your back ticks closer and closer to zero. I have. I have and I did it with duct tape and a piece of string, in the snow, both ways uphill every day
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Nov 19, 2013 04:40
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