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Does that mean playing in the east is impossible now because there is zero chance you can muster the troops to fight the horde?
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Nov 20, 2013 02:53
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No, because the hordes have fewer troops now too?
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Nov 20, 2013 02:54
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Dallan Invictus posted:No, because the hordes have fewer troops now too? My save game has the Mongols with over 100k troops that I can currently see on my borders. I can raise 175k as an empire that controls the entire Mediterranean. So I have no idea how a small kingdom can survive.
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Nov 20, 2013 02:57
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LordPants posted:Does that mean playing in the east is impossible now because there is zero chance you can muster the troops to fight the horde? No, because the point is to make the troop disparity between big empires and kingdoms smaller. Where an empire taking up half of Europe might be able to muster 150k troops to a kingdom's 20k, maybe now the empire can only muster 80k troops to the kingdom's 16k. So there's still a disparity, but now you're actually in trouble if two of your six vassal kings and some fraction of your mountain of dukes join a faction.
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Nov 20, 2013 03:13
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So my previous plan was to form the 150K empire, and then when the Mongols invade fight them off. So now I will have about half that, but the Mongols have the same, albeit in more numerous smaller stacks?
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Nov 20, 2013 03:14
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Mailer posted:If you want to stay in your de jure borders for 300 years managing affairs of state, then that option is already available to you. If you want to augment that by installing dynasty members into distant independent kingdoms, then you've always had that too. There's no doubt that now the game will be much harder once you've conquered half the map, but why would you bother? Just sit in your little kingdom and enjoy being far more powerful than large empires. Mailer, do you also resent how income tax means that getting a raise makes your salary go down, thanks, Obama? I'm just asking questions. Shimrra Jamaane posted:My save game has the Mongols with over 100k troops that I can currently see on my borders. I can raise 175k as an empire that controls the entire Mediterranean. So I have no idea how a small kingdom can survive. Yeah, this sounds like it may have been an oversight.
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Nov 20, 2013 03:19
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So I've just spent the last 12 hours in my first muslim game, ironman and what not. I had no idea what decadence was untill I got hit with the first war and got my ruler imprisoned 'till he died. My heir was luckily a free man and I soon got control of my Arabian empire again. Still having no clue about how to fix my decadence, I just kept on trucking and all of a sudden I see the message for another crusade against me / Jerusalem (and I used to be on good terms with the pope too), and knowing that I beat the first one "easy", I'm getting my troops ready for it again, when boom! Another decadence clean up and then this doomstack hits me and wipes me out pretty god drat fast. Then my current ruler died in prison - yet again, and my heir just ended up rolling with the new caliph who is a warmonger from another dimension who's crazy for conquests. First he took everything I once had, then he took northern Africa and when I quit the game after 12 hours of nonstop playing, he was taking on the Byzantine Empire and eating up all of Turkey. Crazy, and god damned fun. Can't wait to get home from work, I'm going to pick a fight with him to get my empire back!
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Nov 20, 2013 03:23
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Started a game in the OG start as a ruler designer'd Jewish Duke of Crete with very high Learning so I could rush boats. Then I just sat around for like eighty years waiting for a weak moment in one of the three huge empires all around me. Eventually I got annoyed and stabbed rulers until all three had hated guys on the throne... and then all three of them decided to completely fracture at the same time. I think I broke it. I've just been continuously annexing entire duchies over and over with the same mercenary/retinue army and occasional help from levies, declaring multiple Holy Wars every time a new faction tries to break loose, for like fifteen years. I went from two provinces to controlling all of Syria, Egypt, the Kingdom of Jerusalem and southern Anatolia, without ever having more than about 10k troops at any one time. I'm at double my demesne limit but almost every count in the entire kingdom still has the "granted me a title" bonus and the only duke titles in the entire realm are me and a single merchant republic, so everybody's still well into the green relations. The only serious threat in the entire region is the religious rebels. I can't wait until she dies and everybody turns on each other.
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Nov 20, 2013 03:28
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Datasmurf posted:So I've just spent the last 12 hours in my first muslim game, ironman and what not. I had no idea what decadence was untill I got hit with the first war and got my ruler imprisoned 'till he died. My heir was luckily a free man and I soon got control of my Arabian empire again. Still having no clue about how to fix my decadence, I just kept on trucking and all of a sudden I see the message for another crusade against me / Jerusalem (and I used to be on good terms with the pope too), and knowing that I beat the first one "easy", I'm getting my troops ready for it again, when boom! Another decadence clean up and then this doomstack hits me and wipes me out pretty god drat fast. Wouldn't attrition penalties kill that doomstack in a matter of months?
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Nov 20, 2013 03:32
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Wouldn't attrition penalties kill that doomstack in a matter of months? Yep, though they have claimed to have made the AI more aware of attrition. Crusades used to be a litany of Muslim and Catholic nations losing half their armies in 11k max provinces.
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Nov 20, 2013 03:49
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Wouldn't attrition penalties kill that doomstack in a matter of months?
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Nov 20, 2013 03:50
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Mailer posted:If you want to stay in your de jure borders for 300 years managing affairs of state, then that option is already available to you. If you want to augment that by installing dynasty members into distant independent kingdoms, then you've always had that too. There's no doubt that now the game will be much harder once you've conquered half the map, but why would you bother? Just sit in your little kingdom and enjoy being far more powerful than large empires. Are you literally too stupid to understand diminishing returns?
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Nov 20, 2013 03:51
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How do the new game dynamics work? I'm mostly curious what the differences between the various heresies are and how they implemented Judaism.
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Nov 20, 2013 04:00
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PleasingFungus posted:
To be fair there is a possibility that those stacks were already spawned in my save, which was made prior to the patch, so it could be just a compatibility issue. This is supported by how if I load the save I can levy 500k troops if I do it before I unpause the game. So basically my save is hosed. Whoops
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Nov 20, 2013 05:53
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Uh, they're the Mongols. Small kingdoms aren't meant to resist them!
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Nov 20, 2013 06:10
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So I had a religious revolt, only instead of spawning rebels, it spawned two stacks of 42,000 event troops under my control that don't cost maintenance or suffer attrition. And apparently it did it for several of my vassals and/or neighbors too, as there's now giant stacks of troops all over Arabia wandering around that are each 4x the size of anyone's levies. What the hell? e: holy crap it's each and every single one of my vassals and their vassals. over a million troops spawned overnight. duralict fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Nov 20, 2013 |
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Nov 20, 2013 06:43
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Apparently there's an event chain straight out of loving Omen in Sons of Abraham.
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Nov 20, 2013 07:15
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NihilVerumNisiMors posted:Apparently there's an event chain straight out of loving Omen in Sons of Abraham. I just wanna get the one that spawns a 33 martial Joan of Arc. Seriously, that's like Caesar Augustus plus William the Conqueror.
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Nov 20, 2013 07:18
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Excelzior posted:I don't really consider it a nerf, because all kingdoms are affected equally based on size The painful hit isn't to big realms, it's to realms outside of de jure borders. When Torrannor mentioned this it explained why all my levies suddenly vanished in both games. You can be a huge superpower realm still (like early-blobbing France) as long as you stay within the glowing lines. I guess it's great at keeping blobs from gobbling up realms piecemeal and the extra hit makes rulers better targets for disgruntled small vassals. It's entirely possible that the only way I want to play (single province->expand forever) isn't how the majority plays, since people seem to like the changes.
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Nov 20, 2013 07:40
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How is it practical to form the Roman Empire with non-dejure vassals nerfed so hard?
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Nov 20, 2013 08:00
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:How is it practical to form the Roman Empire with non-dejure vassals nerfed so hard? About as practical as it would have been historically? 
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Nov 20, 2013 08:10
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Well Paradox did release an expansion pretty much revolving around it.
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Nov 20, 2013 08:14
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Mailer posted:The painful hit isn't to big realms, it's to realms outside of de jure borders. When Torrannor mentioned this it explained why all my levies suddenly vanished in both games. You can be a huge superpower realm still (like early-blobbing France) as long as you stay within the glowing lines. I guess it's great at keeping blobs from gobbling up realms piecemeal and the extra hit makes rulers better targets for disgruntled small vassals. The problem with single province -> expand forever is that after a certain point, you're one of the most powerful rulers in Europe and can easily go one-on-one with the hordes and win, your realm's super-stable because none of your vassals pose even the slightest threat to you even with factions, dukes and even kings can be overwhelmed and defeated by your retinues alone, and Europe consists entirely of the HRE, one or two other blobby empires, and a bunch of duchies and kingdoms that you're going to effortlessly steamroll the instant you manage to get a CB on them. I might go back to my vanilla save, which I stopped bothering with because I'm pretty sure I was the strongest ruler on the map, none of my king vassals had more than 10% or so of my levies so they were no threat, and even the "tough" fights like the HRE and the Ilkhanate were mostly just a matter of spending ten minutes gathering my levies from all over my realm and doomstacking them up at the destination. There just didn't seem to be enough fun left in the conquest to justify the time and effort of mobilizing and dismissing my levies a few dozen times in order to pick apart the enemy empires one province at a time.
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Nov 20, 2013 08:16
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Starting an ironman game as Pruthenians I'm finding it extremely hard to raise enough troops to seige any provinces. 800 defenders? I'm raiding for gold to hire mercs but its hard to siege down in time before running out of money. Antinumeric fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Nov 20, 2013 |
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Nov 20, 2013 08:23
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Well Paradox did release an expansion pretty much revolving around it. It's not really "revolving" around it, it's just an added decision if you get to that point. It's supposed to be stupidly difficult.
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Nov 20, 2013 09:41
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Antinumeric posted:Starting an ironman game as Pruthenians I'm finding it extremely hard to raise enough troops to seige any provinces. 800 defenders? I'd say maybe combat isn't the way to go there.
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Nov 20, 2013 09:42
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Playing a Merchant Republic is kinda boring after playing Vikings. I usually play almost day-by-day with Vikings (invade and raid all the time), while in a Merchant Republic I've breezed through the first 20 years just watching my money counter tick up and waiting to get another level in Trading Practices. The only interesting point has been forging a claim in the county of Capua (lost becacause the Duke next door also has a claim on it and decided to attack at the same time than me), and a Byzantine Embargo war which I immediately ended by surrendering because they were going after a rival's trade post. Dynasty shenanigans are hard to pull against a stable Italy, and I don't have the manpower (or money for mercenaries) to go against anyone who is a credible threat. My usual start is: 1) Build Trade post in Venice 2) Ask for loan 3) Upgrade Mansion 4) Invite my sons to court so I can build another Trade post 5) Invade wherever I build the second Trade Post (with mercenaries) 6) Upgrade Mansion again 7) Wait until my research kicks in (I’m still waiting for this). Spy is in Constantinopla (will probably go to Granada next time, angering the Byzantines isn’t worth it). Am I missing something here? Trying to get more retinues before the second Mansion upgrade so I can defend myself better?
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Nov 20, 2013 10:46
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dogstile posted:
I did some silly things starting as the Duchy of Lithuania. I just raided all my non-Romuva neighbors (which is enough people to essentially be walking in a big circle around the lands you start with as Lithuania non-stop) until I had the money to hire mercs, then I used the ambition to be King of Lithuania and fought everyone till I had enough to be king. Then I used my once-a-lifetime conquest on Novgorod (because they own so much land and are right next-door). Speaking of it, has the Become King ambition or once-a-lifetime conquest changed in vanilla since ~2 months ago?
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Nov 20, 2013 10:58
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Mickey McKey posted:Actually it would be. If you can get enough warscore through fighting their army you would not need to siege. Yeah I had my ruler die when his only daughter was 2, sat through a regency raiding, finally hit 16 with 600 in the bank. Conquered two duchies before dying in childbirth. 16 years later conquered all of Lithuania and reformed the faith off the gold I saved. Just took my time a bit more. Now to make the Wendish Empire. edit: Romuva is without a doubt the easiest faith to reform.
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Nov 20, 2013 11:47
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Does anyone else like to put a second or third son in charge of a far away county and then switch to him? I got a bit bored after becoming king of Norway, so I gave a son a province in Ireland and switched to playing him. It was quite fun creating a new kingdom within my same dynasty and the other family branch actually managed to hold Norway together alright. Now I think I'll try the same elsewhere and I think I'll try to go for injecting my dynasty into France through marriage and trying to take it down from the inside.
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Nov 20, 2013 11:51
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Fat Samurai posted:Playing a Merchant Republic is kinda boring after playing Vikings. I usually play almost day-by-day with Vikings (invade and raid all the time), while in a Merchant Republic I've breezed through the first 20 years just watching my money counter tick up and waiting to get another level in Trading Practices. I was working on a start for the tutorial thread, but here's my tip for a noob (if you have the new DLC). Choose Pisa. The starting Doge has 10 trade post slots, borrow money from the Jews and ask the Pope for some money. Fill up your trade post slots in suitable areas. Win. This works without the DLC only money might be tight due to all the family hogging your ducats though. edit: Money = mercs. Abuse the hell out of this.
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Nov 20, 2013 12:12
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I seem to only be able to find 1 Jewish ruler in all of history. I tried playing as one of his vassals, but he almost immediately lost 80% of his land to the Pechenegs. So, I took the 1 Jewish province in the entirety of Europe and made it my capital, and then I just kept conquering everything around there. The nice thing about being an infidel to literally everyone is you can just keep declaring holy wars. Who cars if they call on allies since everyone's armies have been made tiny thanks to the patch when I'm running around with 6 merc groups and 17k men. I'm sure I don't have to mention it, but I did become independent, and when I tried to marry Jewish daughter to that dude's Jewish son he wouldn't do it because of "political concerns". Which is stupid as hell, since we're the only Jewish rulers in all of history. That was his only problem, seriously. He had a bunch of green pluses on all sorts of things, but, nope, politics!  Suffice it to say, that game got boring fast. Not sure what would be a good place to start in 800 as a Jew. Any ideas (I use the ruler designer so whatever)? I considered Jerusalem, just 'cause, but I knew I wouldn't really be able to do anything from there.
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Nov 20, 2013 12:49
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Demiurge4 posted:Does anyone else like to put a second or third son in charge of a far away county and then switch to him? I got a bit bored after becoming king of Norway, so I gave a son a province in Ireland and switched to playing him. It was quite fun creating a new kingdom within my same dynasty and the other family branch actually managed to hold Norway together alright. Now I think I'll try the same elsewhere and I think I'll try to go for injecting my dynasty into France through marriage and trying to take it down from the inside. It went to poo poo after that on my side, but the AI managed to hold ground.
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Nov 20, 2013 12:59
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Did they change the way antipopes work? I wanted to get rid of mine because he can't call crusades, and the only way I know of to do that is to press his claim on the Papacy itself. I did that and won, and he moved into Rome, but then his old bishopric just generated a new antipope under my control to fill his old slot. It also won't let me grant him independence or revoke the bishopric. Is there now no way to end antipapacies?
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Nov 20, 2013 13:50
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This guy must have some interesting internal debates. Probably would have been better if Jesus gave more general advice and Satan took care of the military, but still pretty good.
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Nov 20, 2013 14:20
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Nightblade posted:This guy must have some interesting internal debates. He literally has the little cartoon devil on one shoulder and cartoon angel on the other!
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Nov 20, 2013 14:31
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PureRok posted:I seem to only be able to find 1 Jewish ruler in all of history. I tried playing as one of his vassals, but he almost immediately lost 80% of his land to the Pechenegs. So, I took the 1 Jewish province in the entirety of Europe and made it my capital, and then I just kept conquering everything around there. The nice thing about being an infidel to literally everyone is you can just keep declaring holy wars. Who cars if they call on allies since everyone's armies have been made tiny thanks to the patch when I'm running around with 6 merc groups and 17k men. So you are saying the vassal levy nerf made the game easier?
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Nov 20, 2013 14:40
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NihilCredo posted:No, Dauntasa explained it correctly, it's the ultimatum thing. There is however a glitch where some characters will get stuck with that flag for the rest of their lives; I've had it happen in my game too. Do you happen to know the name of this flag? I found one of the guys in my save file and his entry is really long.
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Nov 20, 2013 14:53
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DrSunshine posted:They're taking out the accidental incest??! But that's the best part! It is a fix for a very, very rare event. No worries, you can still have a good tumble with a close relative.
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Nov 20, 2013 15:10
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So how do I call a Crusade if I am friendly with the Pope? Or does the Pope have to be a cardinal from my nation? I'm not sure I understand the point of the college of cardinals. Playing Venice from 867. Now 1085 or do and all the cardinals are mine, I am sitting on 20k+ gold and still making profit even though I've hired all the mercs available. Waging three holy wars simultaneously. Republics are pretty strong, even after nerfs. (This is my first time doing a full game as a republic; next is a Norse game -- are they even stronger?)
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Nov 20, 2013 15:20
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