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Boogaleeboo posted:Listen I'mma make this quick checklist for someone being a bad guy or not: How do you know Carol wouldn't have tortured people if she had a speculum? It's all relative, dude.
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Nov 20, 2013 16:39
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No you guys are dumb and think the gov is just bad because of body count. What's torture?
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Nov 20, 2013 16:41
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The gov is bad because he used the generators to make ice during the town celebration day. Sure, they all had cool drinks, but at what price?
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Nov 20, 2013 16:43
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rypakal posted:Who did Carl murder? He shot a guy who refused to put down his weapon.  I am kind of glad Carol is gone if I'm honest. Her character change came out of nowhere and wasn't very interesting when it arrived. Now we can at least have a disagreement about something that happened this season.
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Nov 20, 2013 16:50
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Redundant posted:Oh nooooo I liked the direction they were taking her, but it definitely happened way the hell too fast. It could have been a season long transformation, and Daryl could have been trying to reel her back in the whole time etc... Would have been a lot more interesting if it caused a split in their budding relationship and Daryl was the one who had to give her the boot for her own safety.
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Nov 20, 2013 16:59
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Redundant posted:Oh nooooo Yeah, she didn't tend towards cold practicality in season 2. Nor did she tend towards cold practicality in season 3 when she told Andrea to stab a sleeping man in the face. Yes, this new Carol is totally out of left field and not at all a sensible and gradual progression.
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Nov 20, 2013 17:08
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rypakal posted:Yeah, she didn't tend towards cold practicality in season 2. Nor did she tend towards cold practicality in season 3 when she told Andrea to stab a sleeping man in the face. Yes, this new Carol is totally out of left field and not at all a sensible and gradual progression. There was also when she told them to get a female zombie so she could practice c sections.
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Nov 20, 2013 17:10
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OK I've come around on the "Governor is evil" issue:
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Nov 20, 2013 17:13
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rypakal posted:Yeah, she didn't tend towards cold practicality in season 2. Nor did she tend towards cold practicality in season 3 when she told Andrea to stab a sleeping man in the face. Yes, this new Carol is totally out of left field and not at all a sensible and gradual progression. The idea of dragging it out over a season would have made more sense, it could have even been brought about by the little girl dying due to group inaction because of "The Council" but coming back to Carol being stone cold? It felt rushed.
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Nov 20, 2013 17:35
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Ok so now we're pro dragging stuff out?
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Nov 20, 2013 17:36
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zoux posted:Ok so now we're pro dragging stuff out?
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Nov 20, 2013 17:42
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zoux posted:OK I've come around on the "Governor is evil" issue: That girl had spent months or even years playing backgammon - you too would accept playing chess against a total jerk if it meant the end of your seemingly eternal torment.
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Nov 20, 2013 18:08
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bobkatt013 posted:There was also when she told them to get a female zombie so she could practice c sections. Yep, that was the moment that let the audience know that Carol was stepping up and becoming a strong member of their group. It is also the moment I fell in love with the character. You could tell she hated the idea of it, but knew it was necessary.
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Nov 20, 2013 18:44
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Ingram posted:Did anyone else feel this weeks episode was like a real take on the video game? It felt Gov was the PC with such little dialogue and you could almost feel the multiple choice questions pop up with the time bar running out whenever he had to say something. Nope. The live-posting in this thread during the show had, like, non-stop rpg jokes. In fact, I think someone mentioned the dialogue bar as well. And I finally got around to downloading the first episode of the game on my ipad. It won't work. Crashes before I get to the menu. Motherfucking iOS 7.Boogaleeboo posted:Listen I'mma make this quick checklist for someone being a bad guy or not: Hahaha! I kept harping on that during the show. I kept thinking about the comment last season of, "I don't believe that man is a practicing gynocologist." I can't remember which goon posted that, but I'm still laughing about it. Just found out Steven Yeun (Glenn) played the voice for the first avatar on "The Legend of Korra". I've been kind of bored of the show this season, but decided to watch the two episodes about the first avatar on demand, and I was like, "I know that voice...I know it's attached to an actor I like. Who the gently caress is it?" Had to look it up. Bored fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Nov 20, 2013 |
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Nov 20, 2013 18:44
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rypakal posted:The Governor is the ultimate end of that "survival for myself" line of thinking. Not even that, really. The way he was portrayed in season 3, he wasn't concerned with survival as much as he was with power and satisfying his own ego, with an extra serving of "hosed up" on the side. That was kind of bad, though, because the writers clearly wanted him to be some sort of dark reflection of Rick, but the way he was written I don't think anyone bought it.
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Nov 20, 2013 19:09
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verybad posted:Not even that, really. The way he was portrayed in season 3, he wasn't concerned with survival as much as he was with power and satisfying his own ego, with an extra serving of "hosed up" on the side. That was kind of bad, though, because the writers clearly wanted him to be some sort of dark reflection of Rick, but the way he was written I don't think anyone bought it. I think the only time they got close was when they showed his diary and it started out with talking about how to help the town. However, it then went to crazy town with the lists and tally marks.
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Nov 20, 2013 19:20
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euphronius posted:The contrast between him and Rick though is/was a cool commentary on American politics though. Go on...
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Nov 20, 2013 19:43
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I thought Woodbury was a pretty obvious model of American with its surface niceties, militarized borders, co-opted scientists, and hidden torture rooms ruled by sadistic fascists. This contrasts with Rick who is more of the reified version of what Americans aspire to be, brave Sheriffs saving families and being fair to each other. Modern (more sensitive) John Waynes.
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Nov 20, 2013 20:11
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euphronius posted:I thought Woodbury was a pretty obvious model of American with its surface niceties, militarized borders, co-opted scientists, and hidden torture rooms ruled by sadistic fascists. This contrasts with Rick who is more of the reified version of what Americans aspire to be, brave Sheriffs saving families and being fair to each other. Modern (more sensitive) John Waynes. Part of me wants to think this is an awesome analysis, and then I remember we're talking about Glen Mazzara.
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Nov 20, 2013 20:36
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zoux posted:Access to means, I think it's important to consider whether intent or outcome is a bigger indicator of "monsterhood". Like when people in this thread are literally cheering the murder of that one dude by Carl or going bonkers in favor of all the anti-social murderous behavior that we see week to week are monsters or not.
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Nov 20, 2013 21:17
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I'm almost afraid to ask this because I'll get vilified for NOT WATCHING THE SHOW CLOSELY ENOUGH etc, but...is it clear where are we timeline-wise vs the prison? Isn't this all quite some time before someone  started stuffing rats through the fence? Does this theorized redemption arc of the Governor point to someone else behind that poo poo?
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Nov 20, 2013 22:20
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rivetz posted:I'm almost afraid to ask this because I'll get vilified for NOT WATCHING THE SHOW CLOSELY ENOUGH etc, but...is it clear where are we timeline-wise vs the prison? Isn't this all quite some time before someone The morning his dudes abandon him is the morning that Rick brings everyone from Woodbury in the bus. Then he enough time to grow his wild beard, so that's probably a couple months. Then he was with the ladies in their apartment for an unknown amount of time. It's never winter, so that could either have happened while he was a mountain man (again, how do you walk for two months and not get far the gently caress away from the area) or it hasn't happened yet. The time in the house was interesting because it's the first time the show hasn't been clear with the passage of time within an episode. It could have been three days or three months.
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Nov 20, 2013 22:24
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His beard was gone by the time he made his ominous glare at the end of the last prison episode right? -- so it's unclear how far back they went to show him meeting the women in the house. It's possible he already rape-killed them and continued on with his plan to destroy the prison.
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Nov 20, 2013 23:38
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His beard was gone before he even left the apartment building with the women. There's really not much way to determine the time of the Governor's story. He's obviously abandoned by Martinez and burns Woodbury within days of the end of S3 and it presumably has to be a month or two for his beard to grow out (I think he mentioned something vague like "its been months" when explaining what happened to him). Obviously we're still before his appearance at the end of the last episode but I guess technically we could be caught up to the start of the season. But I assume we're farther back in the "between seasons" time. But I don't think there was any clear indication of it.
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Nov 21, 2013 00:35
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I cannot seem to dredge up enough interest in what might happen on tommorrow's episode if it is still gov-centric. Will I watch? Probably. However it will be as meaningless as watching big bang theory or 2 broke girls. Just...   edit: At least it's not a reality show. 
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Nov 21, 2013 01:12
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Fog Tripper posted:I cannot seem to dredge up enough interest in what might happen on tommorrow's episode if it is still gov-centric. Good thing you're not really pumped about it because it airs on Sunday.
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Nov 21, 2013 01:46
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Dirk Squarejaw posted:Good thing you're not really pumped about it because it airs on Sunday. No one watches the show so no one knows when it's on.
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Nov 21, 2013 01:49
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Dirk Squarejaw posted:Good thing you're not really pumped about it because it airs on Sunday. I literally have no idea why I wrote tomorrow. Governor is really loving with my mind.
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Nov 21, 2013 03:15
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Would they dare to postpone Darryl's reaction to post mid-season break? Or as the mid-season finale climax? If yes, get out those pitchforks people.
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Nov 21, 2013 09:29
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Evernoob posted:Would they dare to postpone Darryl's reaction to post mid-season break? Or as the mid-season finale climax? I'm not that worried about Darryl kicking off about the least useful (adult, non red shirt) member of the group being kicked out. Even the addendum of "adult" isn't always needed because Carl.
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Nov 21, 2013 12:47
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zoux posted:relative morality vs. survival is a major theme in this show. Ah yes, I can see how survival would bring about slaughtering National Guard troops, killing those that leave and slaughtering your own people for not following your orders. Kidnapping, torture and (implied) rape of another group. Yes, the governor just did that for survival. How silly of us to think that no, he's not comparable to anyone else that hasn't done that poo poo
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Nov 21, 2013 17:31
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So you're saying that morality vs. survival is not a theme in the show?
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Nov 21, 2013 17:34
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Survival at all costs leads to the loss of humanity and monstrous behavior. That is (one of) the themes there with Woodbury and the Gov. And Carol now, in this season. To put it in other America critique themes I think the show captured, the Gov is choosing hegemony, which (ironically) ends up threatening everyone's survival http://www.amazon.com/Hegemony-Survival-Americas-Dominance-American/dp/0805074007 quote:, Chomsky dissects America's quest for global supremacy, tracking the U.S. government's aggressive pursuit of policies intended to achieve "full spectrum dominance" at any cost. He lays out vividly how the various strands of policy-the militarization of space, the ballistic-missile defense program, unilateralism, the dismantling of international agreements, and the response to the Iraqi crisis-cohere in a drive for hegemony that ultimately threatens our survival. In our era, he argues, empire is a recipe for an earthly wasteland. euphronius fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Nov 21, 2013 |
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Nov 21, 2013 17:37
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Carol could have saved a lot of hassle by simply saying she waited by their beds, they turned, she shanked, then burned the corpses to prevent spread. By Carol, I of course mean the little girl.
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Nov 21, 2013 19:22
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Fog Tripper posted:Carol could have saved a lot of hassle by simply saying she waited by their beds, they turned, she shanked, then burned the corpses to prevent spread. She could have saved a lot of hassle by *actually* doing that. Except for the standing by them part. They were already quarantined; there was no advantage for them to die a few hours early.
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Nov 21, 2013 19:48
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euphronius posted:Survival at all costs leads to the loss of humanity and monstrous behavior. That is (one of) the themes there with Woodbury and the Gov. That may have been the story the writers wanted to tell, but it is not the story they told. I don't think a narcissistic, trophy-taking, off-meds serial killer with a rape dungeon is the logical end point of "survival-at-all-costs", yet that's how the Governor was portrayed. Your reading of the Woodbury story as a criticism of American hegemony is correct, I feel, but the writers chose to have this completetely farcical character as the primary focus of that story, and as a result, we're left with some pretty terrible TV. If the governor represents what the writers think about their country's leadership, well, it's no wonder the stories they told weren't all that interesting.
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Nov 21, 2013 19:48
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Fog Tripper posted:By Carol, I of course mean the little girl. I chuckled.
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Nov 21, 2013 20:07
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verybad posted:That may have been the story the writers wanted to tell, but it is not the story they told. I don't think a narcissistic, trophy-taking, off-meds serial killer with a rape dungeon is the logical end point of "survival-at-all-costs" But yet the pictures from Abu Ghraib? I am not going to post any here, but GIS reveals that that happened.
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Nov 21, 2013 20:27
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rypakal posted:She could have saved a lot of hassle by *actually* doing that. Except for the standing by them part. They were already quarantined; there was no advantage for them to die a few hours early. Besides the whole risk of biting people as a zombie of course.
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Nov 21, 2013 20:45
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Fog Tripper posted:Besides the whole risk of biting people as a zombie of course. Ruthless but not murderous Carol would have actually locked them in their cells and told Pussyreese to stay the gently caress away.
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Nov 21, 2013 20:58
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