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Cultural Imperial posted:So knowing all this, why aren't you telling your sister to save her cash? I just might, after seeing that graph of doom.
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Nov 20, 2013 02:11
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eXXon posted:or how sometimes windows fall off and kill people. I remember someone on this very forum accused me of being jealous when I brought that up which is funny since I live in sunny Los Angeles now. I can imagine the mindsets of people that recently own right now is similar to a pyramid scheme cult. I experienced the housing crisis here in California and I find it embarrassing that it's going to happen to a country I assumed knew better.
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Nov 20, 2013 02:15
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My cousin and her fiancé bought a yet to be completed town house on the hill above Burnaby a few years ago. It'll be done mid next year. She's saying it's now valued a whole $25,000 over the purchase price. And they are staying in it for at least five years. I believe purchase price was north of $500k. Please tell me this isn't as bad as I think it might be. I'm pretty sure they can afford it, surprisingly.
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Nov 20, 2013 21:00
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A <5% annual ROI. Golly.
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Nov 20, 2013 21:10
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French Canadian posted:My cousin and her fiancé bought a yet to be completed town house on the hill above Burnaby a few years ago. It'll be done mid next year. She's saying it's now valued a whole $25,000 over the purchase price. And they are staying in it for at least five years. I believe purchase price was north of $500k. I don't think a single property has appreciated in value since 2007. That is, if you bought property in 2007 and sold today, you would have broken even. What do your cousin and fiancee do for a living?
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Nov 21, 2013 01:12
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I'm spending the week in Calgary and holy loving poo poo. If I had to spend 800k to live in a house here, I'd kill myself instead.
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Nov 21, 2013 01:43
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Buying a house in Alberta is basically the same as giving up on life.
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Nov 21, 2013 01:45
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etalian posted:Even more since Canadian household debt number also passed the worst levels of the US bubble. Suddenly being 24 and having zero debt because I opted to ignore the post-secondary degree mill idiocy is so much more appealing than it usually is. This is going to be spectacular when it goes boom. 
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Nov 21, 2013 01:57
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Rime posted:Suddenly being 24 and having zero debt because I opted to ignore the post-secondary degree mill idiocy is so much more appealing than it usually is. This is going to be spectacular when it goes boom. I'm sorry but this argument for not pursuing a post secondary degree in Canada is a load of poo poo. I'll qualify that by saying a degree from a University and not a loving degree mill like KWANTLEN UNIVERISTY LOL is worth the debt. Your argument is valid in the US and for-profit schools like art institute or royal roads.
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Nov 21, 2013 02:12
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Yeah, I'm 25 and dropped out from my degree at the University of Ottawa, but I still fully believe that for a lot of people university is a good option and worth the money to increase their overall earnings later in life.
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Nov 21, 2013 02:17
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I used to sift through CVs into two piles: with university degree, without. In vancouver, the 'with' pile was really loving thin. I knew I had absolutely no hope in hell of finding any applicants with relevant university degrees.
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Nov 21, 2013 02:21
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Rime fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Sep 8, 2022 |
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Nov 21, 2013 02:52
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Rime posted:I'm sure the Masters in Archaeology I had planned to pursue would have been SUCH a payoff compared to the startup I've worked at for five years. As far as i know, people like you working at dope rear end internet startups like hootsuite and silicon sisters make a sweet 60k/year. drat son that is way worth it over, you know, learning something substantial in an MA from a good university. Good luck winning that startup lottery with your 0.01 equity bro. SMASH THE POST-SECONDARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX
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Nov 21, 2013 02:55
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Rime posted:I'm sure the Masters in Archaeology I had planned to pursue would have been SUCH a payoff compared to the startup I've worked at for five years. Encouraging everyone to get a degree has been problematic but letting everyone get a degree seems to have been a thing as well. There's a market glut for some majors because they've been encouraged to have ridiculously large class sizes and low requirements for entry. e: and I don't really think that subjects should be judged on practicality in case it wasn't clear. Any degree is worth it if you're really interested in it, etc. etc. Isentropy fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Nov 21, 2013 |
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Nov 21, 2013 03:10
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Cultural Imperial posted:As far as i know, people like you working at dope rear end internet startups like hootsuite and silicon sisters make a sweet 60k/year. drat son that is way worth it over, you know, learning something substantial in an MA from a good university. Good luck winning that startup lottery with your 0.01 equity bro. SMASH THE POST-SECONDARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX Hootsuite and I have a funny past. I hear they got fined a half million dollars or something.  There's nothing in a masters degree that you can't learn on your own, especially with the growing prevalence of offerings such as Khan and Coursera, you just won't get a Edit: It's been a while, I forgot who I was arguing with. Forget I ever bothered. 
Rime fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Nov 21, 2013 |
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Nov 21, 2013 03:55
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Rime posted:Hootsuite and I have a funny past. I hear they got fined a half million dollars or something. I really don't think you should be citing a Telegraph article about the plight of british undergrads as evidence of the worthlessness of university. You simply cannot fathom how dumb your average british undergrad with a degree from say, thames valley university is. Tell me more about this hootsuite fine. I think it's courageous of you to minimize the value of a master's degree without actually succeeding in obtaining one. Full disclosure, I have one in Comp Sci and I don't think the education I received in and of itself was really valuable. On the other hand, the effort required to grind one out with respectable marks taught me a thing or two about value of labour. Evidently, my employers also think the same. I think the value of an open education from Khan, Coursera or Open University etc etc. should be diminished. I've used Khan and I think it's excellent. On the other hand, if you really are the unique snowflake of start up talent and work ethic you claim to be, then I would suggest to you that you're an outlier and pet that Malcolm Gladwell would be proud of. The vast majority of the population doesn't have the capacity for self discipline required of such scholarship. This is why the tech industry in Vancouver is a joke.
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Nov 21, 2013 04:23
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Sorry, what's the reason the tech industry in Vancouver is a joke? I mean, it is, but I've read your response three times now and can't begin to parse the logic.
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Nov 21, 2013 05:17
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Lexicon posted:Sorry, what's the reason the tech industry in Vancouver is a joke? I mean, it is, but I've read your response three times now and can't begin to parse the logic. Vancouver's tech industry is a joke because the talent pool is extremely shallow.
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Nov 21, 2013 05:25
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Lexicon posted:Sorry, what's the reason the tech industry in Vancouver is a joke? I mean, it is, but I've read your response three times now and can't begin to parse the logic. Brain drain. Tech industry in Canada is being bled dry because the US has the money and resources to draw the top tier talent.
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Nov 21, 2013 05:28
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Cultural Imperial posted:Vancouver's tech industry is a joke because the talent pool is extremely shallow. To be fair - it's chicken and egg. Who's going to hang around writing third rate enterprise shitware for $50k when far better opportunities exist outside Vancouver? Also: I think the general lack of risk aversion in Canadians (so little VC) and lack of industry in general in Vancouver are far better explanatory factors. Not to mention the stupid levels of expense generally - it makes it a far worse place to come as viewed from outside.
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Nov 21, 2013 05:32
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Lexicon posted:To be fair - it's chicken and egg. Who's going to hang around writing third rate enterprise shitware for $50k when far better opportunities exist outside Vancouver? I really think the Canadian Government hasn't put enough money into developing a tech industry. I have a lot of respect for UBC and SFU STEM grads but the reduction of funding for post secondary education in the past decade was just wrong. Silicon Valley developed out of cold war levels of funding for research and development, combined with just the right amount of patriotic zeal to defend the homeland from the commies, which we'll never see in Canada in our lifetime. We're talking several orders of magnitudes more money here. The mayor of Kanata almost succeeded but was thwarted by Externalities (lol). Despite the expense of living here, there are a couple extremely well funded startups establishing themselves in Vancouver. They originate from the bay area and are using Canada as a substitute for Bangalore. A conflation of, shall we say, cultural similarities and timezone make Vancouver an attractive place to set up a development sweatshop over India. On the other hand, the number of cities in North America trying to establish 'hackspaces' for iphone app developers makes me laugh. Vancouver's tech industry is just another antelope in this herd of failure.
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Nov 21, 2013 05:51
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I completely missed this: http://globalnews.ca/news/980864/poloz-says-housing-market-not-a-bubble/ quote:Canada’s housing market is not in a bubble and not likely to suffer a sudden and sharp correction in prices unless there is another major global shock to the economy, Bank of Canada governor Stephen Poloz said Wednesday. whaaat? http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/11/20/poloz-says-canadian-housing-market-not-a-bubble-predicts-soft-landing/ quote:Canada’s housing market is not in a bubble and not likely to suffer a sudden and sharp correction in prices unless there is another major global shock to the economy, Bank of Canada governor Stephen Poloz said Wednesday. namaste friends fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Nov 21, 2013 |
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Nov 21, 2013 05:57
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"Soft landing" was the term that everyone was using in Estonia in 2007. You know, about a year before a total loving horrific real estate crash, which left many bankrupt or to their necks in debt and devalued almost all real estate by a third, some up to by 50%.
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Nov 21, 2013 11:37
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Ah, yes, the incredibly stable and high-performing global economy. Truly we rest on a bedrock of granite. Unlike your standard Toronto condo, which is lucky if it's even at rest.
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Nov 21, 2013 16:22
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Bleu posted:Ah, yes, the incredibly stable and high-performing global economy. Truly we rest on a bedrock of granite. Unlike your standard Toronto condo, which is lucky if it's even at rest. There is a condo down by River and King East that was apparently built too close to the King Street bridge and the bridge has shifted.
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Nov 21, 2013 16:37
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Cultural Imperial posted:I don't think a single property has appreciated in value since 2007. That is, if you bought property in 2007 and sold today, you would have broken even. They both work at Bank of Canada or whatever bank has the hugest building in downtown Vancouver doing non-bank-teller things.
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Nov 21, 2013 18:30
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French Canadian posted:They both work at Bank of Canada or whatever bank has the hugest building in downtown Vancouver doing non-bank-teller things. The last five years of observing the global economy has taught us that anyone who is not a teller is actively destroying the economy.
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Nov 21, 2013 20:50
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OhYeah posted:The last five years of observing the global economy has taught us that anyone who is not a teller is actively destroying the economy. Well one of them just does training videos and stuff...training people how to destroy the economy!
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Nov 21, 2013 22:09
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French Canadian posted:Well one of them just does training videos and stuff...training people how to destroy the economy! So some sort of economic-terrorist training camp eh?
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Nov 21, 2013 23:57
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OhYeah posted:"Soft landing" was the term that everyone was using in Estonia in 2007. Doesn't the level sort of prevent a soft landing once people go into panic mode and also start getting nice HELOC letters from their bank?
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Nov 22, 2013 00:46
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etalian posted:Doesn't the level sort of prevent a soft landing once people go into panic mode and also start getting nice HELOC letters from their bank? Well soft landing would be achieved if earnings caught up with housing. However that is almost laughably unlikely, and even if it did happen I think it would just spur additional rounds of house price escalations. If the bank is willing to lend me a million now for grandma's Vancouver special, imagine what they would lend me if there were actual wage increases. I cannot even see how the economy doesn't take a dump if housing just stagnates as I suspect HELOCs are driving a lot of consumer activity.
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Nov 22, 2013 02:04
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ocrumsprug posted:I cannot even see how the economy doesn't take a dump if housing just stagnates as I suspect HELOCs are driving a lot of consumer activity. It's pretty much what drove the fun side of the bubble, it's great for economy for things such as people trying flip home or buying more granite countertops until you reach the sad part of the bubble. Also did anyone watch the CBC condo documentary on the GTA condo boom?
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Nov 22, 2013 02:06
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Incidentally, I was reading about housing in the Soviet Union and after the ideal of communal living was abandoned, they decided to stamp out literally thousands of prefabricated apartment blocks. Nikita Khrushchev was the man in charge at that time, so they ended up being called "Khrushchyovka". The size of the smallest is a meager 325 square feet (30 square meters). 325 square feet is 35 square feet more than you'll get if you buy a micro-apartment in the "Balance" building in Surrey; it's 225 square feet more than the micro-apartments being talked about for Vancouver. I mean, seriously, we're in a situation where totalitarian communism actually does it better?
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Nov 22, 2013 03:15
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http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1354767/vancouver-benefits-influx-mainland-chinese-migrants-says-mayorquote:Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson says a flood of mainland Chinese immigrants, tourists and investors is creating new economic development opportunities in the Canadian port city, not driving up property prices, as some city residents have complained. I'd agree with this entire article if you substituted "vancouver" with "calgary". I've met tons of talented hard working mainlanders who immigrated to Canada and established themselves in Calgary. On the other hand, I don't think any of the hongers who immigrated before '97 are still around and I've never met a mainlander in Vancouver who wasn't either a menial service worker or a parasitic billionaire.
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Nov 22, 2013 04:19
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Cultural Imperial posted:http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1354767/vancouver-benefits-influx-mainland-chinese-migrants-says-mayor They aren't, there's an estimated 300,000 Hong Kong immmigrants who stayed long enough to get citizenship and then returned home at the end of the 1990's when it became clear China wasn't going to gently caress the place. This only really becomes a concern if China DOES ever move on Hong Kong, or when most of them get elderly, because then you have nearly half a million refugees/retirees flooding back on their visas to take advantage of a universal health care system which they haven't been paying taxes into for 20+ years. It's a systemic risk.
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Nov 22, 2013 04:31
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Rime posted:They aren't, there's an estimated 300,000 Hong Kong immmigrants who stayed long enough to get citizenship and then returned home at the end of the 1990's when it became clear China wasn't going to gently caress the place. This only really becomes a concern if China DOES ever move on Hong Kong, or when most of them get elderly, because then you have nearly half a million refugees/retirees flooding back on their visas to take advantage of a universal health care system which they haven't been paying taxes into for 20+ years. ^ I get the systemic risk argument, but do you really think wealthy Hong Kongers who can immigrate back and forth on a whim are keen to avail themselves of Canadian UHC, which, after all, is for the likes of scum like you and me? I'd think they'd be far keener on the plush private services available in the USA or parts of Europe - hell, even Hong Kong itself.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:19
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I guess Alberta isn't such a terrible place when you consider that it pay for the rest of the country's healthcare. 
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Nov 22, 2013 05:25
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Throatwarbler posted:I guess Alberta isn't such a terrible place when you consider that it pay for the rest of the country's healthcare. Nope, still terrible.
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Nov 22, 2013 09:14
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Throatwarbler posted:I guess Alberta isn't such a terrible place when you consider that it pay for the rest of the country's healthcare. In 20 years when nobody wants to buy lovely expensive to use bitumen and you get cancer for so much as stepping in a puddle in Alberta the roles will be reversed again.
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Nov 22, 2013 14:12
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etalian posted:Also did anyone watch the CBC condo documentary on the GTA condo boom? I watched it last night, and got much happier that I don't own a condo in the GTA. Aside from the bubble implications though, the realization of how little influence the city has in its own city planning should terrify everyone.
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Nov 22, 2013 16:08
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