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TheFallenEvincar posted:Finally caught up to Kingdom, loving it, though I find Renpa to be pretty overrated (probably the second lamest enemy next to Mr. "I belong in another more over the top, far less subtle action series with very poorly written characters" Houken). He got talked out of a battle. He's one of the rare characters in Kingdom to get defeated by Naruto-style friendship no jutsu. Usually Kingdom is too cutthroat and realistic and merciless for that sort of silly business. The Zhao guy was a part of Riboku/Li Mu's army during the battle in Zhao, he got murdered by somebody, but I can't remember who. Regardless, I thought it was pretty suitable for Renpa to bow his head out, especially after that whole "Fading away" speech from Haku Gou. It's a tacit acceptance of the circumstances, if Renpa comes back, it will be far in the future and he'll be totally outclassed because of anime time and power level progression. Also, he gave his reasons and they made sense to me. The battle had already been lost, he wasn't really argued into retreating so much that his only options were down to that or dying pointlessly.
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Nov 1, 2013 09:57
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Also, he gave his reasons and they made sense to me. The battle had already been lost, he wasn't really argued into retreating so much that his only options were down to that or dying pointlessly. The ceasefire that he had the Qin army agree too stopped the Wei army from being wiped out by Ouken and Kanki's forces as well. Renpa didn't want to waste the lives of the soldiers entrusted to him just so he could die in a blaze of glory.
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Nov 1, 2013 18:03
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logger posted:The ceasefire that he had the Qin army agree too stopped the Wei army from being wiped out by Ouken and Kanki's forces as well. Renpa didn't want to waste the lives of the soldiers entrusted to him just so he could die in a blaze of glory. This. Renpa *could* wipe out everyone on that hill but that would also mean all of their soldiers would get wiped out by Kanki and also Ousen's fresh and unscathed army. Their entire army was practically surrounded with no way out since Kanki held their HQ's side while Ousen is holding the back side of Qin's HQ. Forcing the ceasefire enabled him to bring back a good portion of the army home and defend their capital, instead of losing everyone right there and then. It was a tactical retreat. Slim Jim Pickens posted:The Zhao guy was a part of Riboku/Li Mu's army during the battle in Zhao, he got murdered by somebody, but I can't remember who. I forgot his name but it was Ouki's right hand man, the dude with the weird staring eyes and funky 'stance. He is hilarious though and I hope we'd see him again.
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Nov 1, 2013 19:02
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wid posted:I forgot his name but it was Ouki's right hand man, the dude with the weird staring eyes and funky 'stance. He is hilarious though and I hope we'd see him again.
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Nov 2, 2013 12:24
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I'm having a ton of trouble trying to figure out the historical figures that these characters correspond to. I figure the translators did too, because they gave up at around chapter 10 and settled for all the Japanese versions.
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Nov 2, 2013 18:27
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I'm having a ton of trouble trying to figure out the historical figures that these characters correspond to. I figure the translators did too, because they gave up at around chapter 10 and settled for all the Japanese versions. There is a huge thread in the mangafox discussion with all the history facts in one place. However since the manga is still far beyond what is currently scanlated you might run into spoilers.
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Nov 2, 2013 22:08
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wid posted:This. Isn't this manga supposed to be accurate about the battle results? If the actual battle ended like that then the author at least had do make it more interesting by adding the talk-no-jutsu. In reality it must have been a "welp, we're hosed, less call for a ceasefire, I hope they don't kill us all"
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Nov 3, 2013 01:46
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trucutru posted:Isn't this manga supposed to be accurate about the battle results? If the actual battle ended like that then the author at least had do make it more interesting by adding the talk-no-jutsu. In reality it must have been a "welp, we're hosed, less call for a ceasefire, I hope they don't kill us all" Well, yeah. In reality, Li Xin (Shin) was not a commoner and Wang Ji (Ouki) was an old dude who didn't lead troops in the front lines. Generals were better known for their strategy and logistics than "gonna chop a dozen dudes up with one swing of my mighty halberd". Characters, locations, big battles are mostly based on historical figures, as well as big events, but the details are highly dramatized. But at the same time, it's not like it's more fictional than something like Romance of The Three Kingdoms. It might not be the same for everybody but I thought that battle result was logical from a shonen power-level perspective. Renpa is the god-level character, on par with Ouki. To see him getting beaten and forced to retreat is like saying the current crop of Qin generals can defeat someone of Ouki level. This way they established Renpa's power level as unblemished but still managed to give Qin forces the win.
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Nov 3, 2013 10:40
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I'm having a ton of trouble trying to figure out the historical figures that these characters correspond to. I figure the translators did too, because they gave up at around chapter 10 and settled for all the Japanese versions. Wait so they just use the Japanese names? That's... actually a dealbreaker as petty as that sounds. Whatever, I'll just go back to reading Sangokushi.
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Nov 3, 2013 20:04
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TheFallenEvincar posted:Finally caught up to Kingdom, loving it, though I find Renpa to be pretty overrated (probably the second lamest enemy next to Mr. "I belong in another more over the top, far less subtle action series with very poorly written characters" Houken). He got talked out of a battle. He's one of the rare characters in Kingdom to get defeated by Naruto-style friendship no jutsu. Usually Kingdom is too cutthroat and realistic and merciless for that sort of silly business. He wasn't argued out of a battle. That battle was clearly lost at that point as he went on to detail to his subordinate. Even if they managed to kill the enemy HQ it wouldn't have meant anything, it would have just allowed the enemy Vice-Generals to sweep the field and annihilate the Wei army. Anyways, I too just finished reading Kingdom all at once and loved it, though I'm getting annoyed at Shin's continued Shonen idiocy. He's a Chinese John Bell Hood, and I don't see how he can be promoted further unless he comes to some understanding of tactics himself.
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Nov 4, 2013 06:51
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New Gunka no Balzer
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Nov 4, 2013 08:22
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That's the good stuff. Kind of surprised more characters are being introduced but Nakajima's doing a good job of building up anticipation for seeing how the kids will do in the actual conflict.
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Nov 4, 2013 09:56
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Balzer makes even army logistics an exciting thing. Hah!
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Nov 5, 2013 02:52
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I'm having a ton of trouble trying to figure out the historical figures that these characters correspond to. I figure the translators did too, because they gave up at around chapter 10 and settled for all the Japanese versions. They have a spreadsheet linked on their site that lists Chinese name/Japanese name/Historical person they're based on
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Nov 5, 2013 16:46
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Those names are usually official Japanese variants that are also used by Historians. Just like you have Canute instead of Knut in English.
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Nov 5, 2013 18:10
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 New Stratocracy of Altair
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Nov 10, 2013 05:59
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Did someone say Kingdom? New batch just landed. Only about 100 chapters behind the raw now... Kingdom 261 Kingdom 262  Kingdom 263: Unimaginable  When you combine how entertaining the series is with the fact that we get at least three chapters per week, this is my favorite read right now. I've been thinking about writing something to pitch it to the thread, since it didn't look like anyone was reading it. People are talking about it now, though, so… 
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Nov 10, 2013 20:59
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We got nine chapters this week. It was a good week.
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Nov 11, 2013 01:12
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Kingdom definitely deserves it's own thread, so much epic action. I'll be very sad when they finally catch up to the raws, these constant releases have spoiled me.
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Nov 11, 2013 01:27
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I love this series so much. Pretty uneventful chapter, but it was important to let everyone revel in awe of what happened in #41. 
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Nov 11, 2013 04:29
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Kingdom is indeed very good, and those shots of heads flying that the author uses when switching back to a battle always crack me up.
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Nov 11, 2013 05:01
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Flying heads and eyelashes, now that Tou is back in the story.
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Nov 11, 2013 20:30
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Things are definitely getting exciting. Sorta feels like everyone in Qin has forgotten about the mountain queen lady and the united mountain tribes. They should hopefully be surging in and tearing poo poo up soon, weren't they supposed to be super ferocious and dangerous warriors and last time we checked the mountain queen lady had pretty much consolidated all of them under her banner?
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Nov 18, 2013 04:12
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It's sorta surprising that Kingdom turns out to be as good as it is, because i get the feeling that the author isn't too proficient in what he does. Some of the great philosophic monologues of pathos he grants the characters, especially early on, just completely fall flat and made me think "oh shut up, you don't know what you're talking about". One of the earlier moments with General Lips in the first big battle is exactly that. And i think that character is one of the best in the story, but he was still spouting vague pseudo-deep bullshit. Then there's the whole unsettling warmongering and people-dying aspect that gets completely neglected and almost denied in favor of SHOUNEN POWERS! None of the wounds the MC suffers ever matter, until after the fight is done, even if he's in critical state only halfway through the fight. Sometimes not even after that. And he keeps losing a couple hundred men in bad clashes, then marches forward and in the battle around the next corner he somehow miraculously has a full 1000 men again - at least it is implied, because none of his troop's deaths are ever acknowledged aside from "LET'S PARTY to honor them". Then there's the fact the author is hilariously bad with twists. The ACTUALLY A GIRL plot wasn't very surprising the first time. ( "What the... why are they referring to Diao as a boy? Did the translators mess up?" ) But then he pulls it again. And again. And AGAIN. And every time, the paneling, the layout, the build up, the reactions, all set it up as this surprise. I'm hoping that as the characters leave that age it will finally stop. His warfare strategy isn't too fleshed out either. I know it's impossible to write characters smarter than you are, but this is semi-historical stuff. Read up on it. You tell us that this general prepared a battlefield fort beforehand and laid it out with traps, but give us an overview of it so we can marvel at the 40-years-in-the-making strategy instead of telling us how awesome it is. Spend half a page to show us what goes into the preparations of making a fort like that. Tell us how they prepared to hide an entire battlefield behind a smoke screen. Show us what BanditLeader's main army did without their leader in the woods to get away from McUnstoppable. We've seen enough brute-force charges to know they will work. I almost get the impression as if the author can't handle more than one plot thread at once. When Owl enrolled in the enemies' strategist school, i thought "Hell yes! Character development, overcoming inferiority complex, finding strength and political intrigue! Can't wait to see what happens in the court war with that new player! Maybe pretend to join their side and support the King with inside info?" ... And then none of it happened. The character got some lip service as a passive bystander, doesn't even get to make some comments on what happens to show their prowess, and then just straight up vanishes for like 50 chapters. Gotta concentrate on drawing Xin hitting an enemy even harder than before with his sword! No time for other plot threads! Instead i will pick them up afterwards and in turn abandon all others that cropped up for a couple dozen chapters. The art might be a point of contention, seems to draw exactly one face for many of the characters, mostly those with the more fantastical or exaggerated features. One face, and it almost never changes. Very obvious with General Lips and his French crusader lieutenant. I think i can count the times when they spoke and opened their mouth on half a hand. I don't know, i think their distinct and over-the-top style is almost a point in their favor, as it was more of a charming imperfection. I did notice, though, that the artist got better about that in the last 50 or so chapters. In flashbacks, Ouki's magnificient lips have considerably shrunken in size and Mougou (i think was his name?) has stopped channeling Lu Bu through his face. I almost didn't recognize him. Not sure how i feel about that. And despite all that, it's still entertaining and captivating enough that i more or less binged through more than 250 chapters. I loved that in this world, people pass out with a nosebleed after a night of INTENSE tabletop strategizing! HenryEx fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 16:27
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Didn't realize a new chapter of Cesare came out a few weeks ago.
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Nov 18, 2013 18:52
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HenryEx posted:
What? That style is indeed a point in their favor. The interactions between Ouki/Wang Qi and Tou/Teng are great. The author has fun creating even sillier ways for Tou be a yes-man, and a good deal of the joke is his face. The fact that he's also an incredible intelligent general himself (and not really a yes-man, Ouki wouldn't allow that) is part of the charm. I agree in that the author does have some issues but he's also limited by the nature of the manga. Not focusing on owl during her training is a shame but there is so much poo poo to be done in order to unify China that, unless the author wants to keep drawing this thing for 20 more years, some narrative sacrifices have to be done. Look at the Harem side story, it is extremely important for historical reasons so the author has managed to give it enough screen-time.
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Nov 18, 2013 18:58
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Kingdom is a very entertaining manga, but the historical research of the author is worse than a middle schooler's term paper. Anybody here can probably spend 30 minutes reading on Qin and Qin Shi Huang in Wikipedia and be better versed than the author. The English translation of a Japanese translation of a Chinese name is pretty frustrating to read, especially when you want to figure out which famous historical figure the author is trying to bastardize next. If the author ever decided to draw about the American Civil War, we would learn that Alahamu Limcom-Sama is a transvestite sage and that Lobou Yi Li-Kun was actually a beautiful jungle queen masquerading as a young man. Also, lots of battles are decided by Shounen punches.
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Nov 21, 2013 06:15
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I'd read it.
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Nov 21, 2013 06:47
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isme posted:
Eh, there's not any wackier than Abe Lincoln, Vampire Hunter.
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Nov 21, 2013 06:53
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I would kill for a japanese take on the civil war, though not a 'japanese' take. Intricately penciled beards... goddamnit why hasn't this happened.
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Nov 22, 2013 04:29
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Kingdom is more historically-influenced drama than a chronicling of real events. I can see how it'd be frustrating to read if you're familiar with Chinese history, but for someone like me who knows nothing, it's entertaining and has actually inspired me to start researching the real history.
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Nov 22, 2013 09:36
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The new Vinland Saga is out and about. I couldn't stop laughing at Thorfinn's face this chapter, he's pretty adorable.
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Nov 22, 2013 16:13
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jonjonaug posted:The new Vinland Saga is out and about. I couldn't stop laughing at Thorfinn's face this chapter, he's pretty adorable. Is the series slated to end soon? The latest chapter had that vibe
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Nov 22, 2013 17:06
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But they aren't even at Vinland yet! There's a real chance they finally set sail for it and we get a big "END OF PART 1," considering we got "END OF THE PROLOGUE" after the first arc, which ran for nearly 5 years. Sindai fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Nov 22, 2013 |
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Nov 22, 2013 17:25
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Law Cheetah posted:Is the series slated to end soon? The latest chapter had that vibe
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Nov 22, 2013 17:25
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They're going to get to Iceland to find everyone dead, I just know it  This was a pretty cool chapter though. Eiba posted:Nah. I mean, I haven't heard anything, but it's barely beginning if the name "Vinland Saga" is to be believed. This is probably the end of Canute's story though. Very much wrapping up the last arc before moving on.
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Nov 22, 2013 17:30
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Rodyle posted:They're going to get to Iceland to find everyone dead, I just know it 
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Nov 22, 2013 18:07
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Rodyle posted:They're going to get to Iceland to find everyone dead, I just know it
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Nov 22, 2013 21:45
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The last issue will feature Thorfinn goes on one last murderous rampage, for old times' sake. The last page is a double-page spread of Thorfinn and Thorkell punching horses together 
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Nov 22, 2013 21:57
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Chapter's up - http://www.mangareader.net/vinland-saga/99
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Nov 23, 2013 02:33
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