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Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks that Phoenix is being overexposed right now.
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Nov 23, 2013 22:51
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TheEggsBenedict posted:You could replace him with John Madden I want this to happen and for it never to be addressed.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:09
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As someone who's never played a PW game I'm fine with him being used like this. I also agree with replacing him with John Madden.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:10
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I think VGCW still needs more heels. We've got a handful at best (Air Man, Dan, Phoenix Wright, Ganondorf if you squint hard enough) and I think we could use some new bad blood. Crossing my fingers that Gabe's security team turns out to be The Turks so we can get some corporate stooges to rough the place up.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:13
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I think Phoenix is just a stepping stone to whoever it is that is talking to him. When he(or they) shows up, Wright will probably be thrown by the wayside and forgotten. Kind of like how Devil Woody was but a preview of what Dracula was capable of. I wonder who the voice is, we already have a lot of big name villains in VGCW, so I'm having a hard time figuring out who this new force could be.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:24
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Snake's the heel here anyway. Nick was just trying to help, and look what he got. 
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Nov 23, 2013 23:25
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SoggyBobcat posted:Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks that Phoenix is being overexposed right now. Overexposed = appearing in plot at all? I'm just glad we're finally getting the payoff for the mysterious voice. I fact, I'm way more interested in this plot than anything we had going on last season, except maybe the return of badman.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:31
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Amppelix posted:Overexposed = appearing in plot at all? I'm just glad we're finally getting the payoff for the mysterious voice. I fact, I'm way more interested in this plot than anything we had going on last season, except maybe the return of badman. Excluding End Game 5, Phoenix appeared in six straight Nights: in the Casual Contenders match on September 17, agaisnt Scorpion on October 8, against Haggar and Dan on October 15, against Pyro on October 22, against Flint on October 29, and lastly against Gray Fox on November 12. This is in addition to being one of the most heavily relied on wrestlers for plot in VGCW's history.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:51
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No wrestler will ever be as overexposed and boring as Luigi. It's the year of Luigi though so I guess I have to deal with it.
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Nov 23, 2013 23:53
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flatluigi posted:Hasn't Bazza still never played a Phoenix Wright game? I think he played the first case or two of the very first one, and then stopped. He has weird tastes in games.
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Nov 24, 2013 01:38
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Justin_Brett posted:I think he played the first case or two of the very first one, and then stopped. He has weird tastes in games. He didn't like Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden either
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Nov 24, 2013 01:41
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Remember at one point Bazza swore Octodad would never make it into VGCW either
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Nov 24, 2013 01:42
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Go RV! posted:He didn't like Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden either He has good tastes then
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Nov 24, 2013 02:14
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I wouldn't say he has bad tastes, just... very plain. 
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Nov 24, 2013 02:17
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Tengames posted:He has good tastes then
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Nov 24, 2013 02:31
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Speaking as someone who beat the first Phoenix game and loved nearly every minute of it, I'm actually sort of happy with the direction Bazza has taken him in. Six months of sitting in isolation knowing that one wrong move on your part could tie the entire universe in a knot would drive anyone insane, even a saint like Nick. ...Saint Nick. Heh.
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Nov 24, 2013 02:33
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Policenaut posted:I think VGCW still needs more heels. We've got a handful at best (Air Man, Dan, Phoenix Wright, Ganondorf if you squint hard enough) and I think we could use some new bad blood. Crossing my fingers that Gabe's security team turns out to be The Turks so we can get some corporate stooges to rough the place up. This comes up every now and then, but what can you do? Who can you turn? Ganon tried to turn heel and it didn't amount to much. It didn't help that the target of his ire was a wrestler who'd come to be regarded as a fraud and a dead weight, but when Ganon attacked him unprovoked, I think the reaction most of us had was "about time". Then the promos happened and I'm still not convinced those weren't intentionally comedic. Even someone like Ezio, who never had any sort of positive or endearing characterization, didn't have any nostalgia backing him up and rode boos to the ring throughout his entire career, had all of the heel sucked out of him overnight thanks to a good CAW and appropriate entrance. It looks like Haggar's making a heel turn of sorts, I guess, he's certainly not someone who I'd have pegged as the next big bad but the guy's been acting like a massive dick lately. I'm not quite sure how I feel about that, but if you want to look at the future of heeldom in VGCW, look at his backstage altercation with Mac and his title promo. There might be something there. Still, acting bad is absolutely no guarantee that you'll get booed in VGCW. You need that magic spark. That said, there are two wrestlers who had bona fide heel credentials, who had The Spark, and who were wasted. The first was Little Mac. It's a little unfortunate that his heel turn happened in Season 1, as he made for perfect face turn material and it was the simplest and most effective storyline for him to follow at a time when plot was still very much in the protozoic stage. Then there was Raph. Strong, believable, got boos up to the rafters... and got torpedoed to the bottom of the tag division the first chance Bazza got. Hopefully, next someone has The Spark, we can milk it for all it's worth.
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Nov 24, 2013 02:41
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Do custom signs work in story mode on WWE 2K14?
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Nov 24, 2013 02:45
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Raph was such a good heel, too. He was set up to be the perfect corporate champion, with the Elite Four (which was also dismantled before it's time). Could have had such a good face-turn later on by being rebellious, canon self. Such a pity. Duke seems like he'd be in a good place to be a heel. He seems to have gotten a power boost in the conversion, and his gimmick is being a dick. Have him get into a fight with WAAAAAAAH, which sparks a feud with known faces Warioware. Maybe we can make generic face Guile a heel through this, too. Another Person posted:Do custom signs work in story mode on WWE 2K14? Chat was saying they didn't last Night, I thought. Hopefully they'll be able to magic them in.
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Nov 24, 2013 03:01
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Sagat gets a fair amount of boos when he comes out but I doubt Bazza has any plans to turn him or Bison into full blown heeldom. Maybe if Shadaloo becomes the #1 Co-Op Contender and we get Nerd/Sagat Round 3 something might happen.
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Nov 24, 2013 03:10
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:This comes up every now and then, but what can you do? Who can you turn? If it ever got to the point where you can't repackage existing characters into heels then I'd either bring back classic VGCW characters or look for new ones to fill that role as the last resort. I think one of the biggest problems is that we just keep bleeding out heels, both established and potential. Kratos, Sephiroth, Wesker, Donte, Kazuya, Devil Woody, Raphael, and the Game Grumps. All of these characters were pretty hated (excluding the love/hate Game Grumps deal) and we just lost them over time. Remember when Donte beat Dante? You could cut that hatred with a knife. Like you said, there's also the issue of certain heel/heel-like characters getting repackaged like Gaben, Ezio, Little Mac, Vegeta, and Baz McMahon So if we look at our current cast and give "heel" the most generous definition possible, we've got Air Man, Barkley, Dan, Dark Phoenix, there's potentially Dracula and Kefka but that's kind of up in the air right now, and The Practice if you don't think they're frauds yet. But we've only seen a little of season 6 and for all we know Drac and Kefka could have gone corporate. I have to agree with the idea that Sagat would be a likely heel turn. Watching him in plot is like watching Ivy from WVGCW. He's a super-powered no nonsense fighting game character who wants the gold and is going to smash a lot of fan-favorites to get it. Haggar could be an interesting swerve, but he'd need to really be a dick and really do something bad to make people stop respecting the pipe. Ganondorf might finally be turning the corner after attacking Bowser last week, I don't think anyone would side with him if he wants to start Bowser/Dorf again. Call me crazy for this, but I think Knuckles might have some legs as the next Dan. Dumbest character in the roster, most of the chat hates him for what he does and how he treats Sonic, arguably responsible for Protoman's death, and he took out New Ezio last episode but that might not blow up in his face. At this point, I think you could just have any one of these guys beat Arino's face in and it'd happen. And hey, if none of that pans out and there's no prospects? Well, pretty much everyone hates Tidus and there's a really good CAW of him with the VIDYA tag. 
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Nov 24, 2013 04:10
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...You're gonna need to describe 'what makes a heel', because I genuinely don't get it. Most everyone is doing whatever. I never got why Raphael was a 'heel'.
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Nov 24, 2013 04:13
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Bloodly posted:...You're gonna need to describe 'what makes a heel', because I genuinely don't get it. Most everyone is doing whatever. I never got why Raphael was a 'heel'. It's been a long time but didn't a lot of people dislike Raphael for being a corporate champ who broke the Gerudo Curse? His wiki page talks about his rise as a heel.
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Nov 24, 2013 04:19
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Maybe a small primer on pro wrassle lingo for people who aren't as immersed is warranted for the thread? It could go in the second post of the thread even.
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Nov 24, 2013 04:25
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Superstring posted:Maybe a small primer on pro wrassle lingo for people who aren't as immersed is warranted for the thread? It could go in the second post of the thread even. quote:(Incomplete) Glossary of Wrestling Terms:
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Nov 24, 2013 04:39
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Bloodly posted:...You're gonna need to describe 'what makes a heel', because I genuinely don't get it. Most everyone is doing whatever. I never got why Raphael was a 'heel'. Edit: I should mention that a heel used to just mean "guy who gets booed a lot" way back then. TheEggsBenedict fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Nov 24, 2013 |
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Nov 24, 2013 04:40
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Policenaut posted:I think one of the biggest problems is that we just keep bleeding out heels, both established and potential. Kratos, Sephiroth, Wesker, Donte, Kazuya, Devil Woody, Raphael, and the Game Grumps. All of these characters were pretty hated (excluding the love/hate Game Grumps deal) and we just lost them over time. Remember when Donte beat Dante? You could cut that hatred with a knife. Like you said, there's also the issue of certain heel/heel-like characters getting repackaged like Gaben, Ezio, Little Mac, Vegeta, and Baz McMahon Well, the thing with most of those heels was that a "heel" needs to be someone you love to hate, not just plain hate. People just plain hated and/or didn't wanna see Kratos, Donte, the Grumps, etc. Of course, you could've made them good heels with some storytelling, but... Right now (hashtag), I think we got Dan, Kefka, Ganon, Feenix, Barkley, maybe Gary (under the 3MB heel clause), maybe Drac, maybe Air Man and sorta Gaben (Think Brad Maddox incompetent authority figure heel) as established heels in the men's division. Kinda of a low number, and among those dudes the only intimidating forces are Ganon and Gaben. Everyone else is midcard or complete jobbers. But it kinda comes with the territory: it's hard to get good heat for a character intentionally on the VGCW environment, since if he's fun to watch, people will get behind him and gently caress your plot. If he's not fun, people will just hate him and want him gone.
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Nov 24, 2013 04:45
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Dias posted:But it kinda comes with the territory: it's hard to get good heat for a character intentionally on the VGCW environment, since if he's fun to watch, people will get behind him and gently caress your plot. If he's not fun, people will just hate him and want him gone. This is well said; getting heat on somebody (or even pushing them properly) is really difficult in a medium where the results aren't scripted. It ends up kind of like MMA, where like Dias said, the legitimate competition makes it easy to get behind somebody if they're good in the ring, regardless of what storyline they're in. (e: and then they get squashed by loving Bayonetta and you rage out. Yes, I am still salty) Characters manage to get heat based on story stuff once in a while, though - Dan is the obvious example, but compare the reactions to Airman from before and after he dismantled Protoman. Solomonic fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Nov 24, 2013 |
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Nov 24, 2013 04:53
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One thing to keep in mind is that the unique nature of VGCW might not require traditional heels. I mean, in real fake wrestling, heels serve as the bad guy so the audience will buy tickets to see the good guys beat them. I think there should be some analysis on whether VGCW needs heels for a tangible purpose and not try to have them just to have them.
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Nov 24, 2013 04:55
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Solomonic posted:Dan is the obvious example, but compare the reactions to Airman from before and after he dismantled Protoman. On that note, I always found it kind of weird that Geno got away with murdering Devil Woody. I mean he didn't really do anything wrong.
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Nov 24, 2013 04:56
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Policenaut posted:On that note, I always found it kind of weird that Geno got away with murdering Devil Woody. I mean he didn't really do anything wrong.
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Nov 24, 2013 04:57
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Policenaut posted:On that note, I always found it kind of weird that Geno got away with murdering Devil Woody. I mean he didn't really do anything wrong.
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Nov 24, 2013 05:00
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I forgot to link this a long time ago, but someone on the VGCW forums did a really long thread about ranking all 84 cast members in VGCW Year 1 and it's a really good look at some of the characters.TheEggsBenedict posted:Looking back at it now, Geno killing Woody really hurts since Woody was hilarious and creepy and Geno was just a boring rear end in a top hat who got future endeavored shortly after jobbing to Knuckles. In all honesty, I think Geno was the worst newcomer we got in that season. People tried to make him work in chat so badly but he just wouldn't take.
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Nov 24, 2013 05:06
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Superstring posted:One thing to keep in mind is that the unique nature of VGCW might not require traditional heels. I mean, in real fake wrestling, heels serve as the bad guy so the audience will buy tickets to see the good guys beat them. I think there should be some analysis on whether VGCW needs heels for a tangible purpose and not try to have them just to have them. Well, you need antagonists to make for a compelling story. But I suppose they don't need to be "bad guys" per se in VGCW's case - and even in real fake wrestling, that's not always the case, Japanese pro-wrestling doesn't have a lot of clear cut heels either. Still, it's cool to have more than a couple of well-defined assholes so you don't get too many meaningless matches in a show. Then again, having a bunch of fan favorites killing midcarders also works as compelling booking for filler matches. I guess what I mean is 
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Nov 24, 2013 05:07
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Superstring posted:One thing to keep in mind is that the unique nature of VGCW might not require traditional heels. I mean, in real fake wrestling, heels serve as the bad guy so the audience will buy tickets to see the good guys beat them. I think there should be some analysis on whether VGCW needs heels for a tangible purpose and not try to have them just to have them. Well that's just it - it's not only about cheering for wrestlers you like to win, it's also about cheering for wrestlers you hate to lose.
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Nov 24, 2013 05:13
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SoggyBobcat posted:Well that's just it - it's not only about cheering for wrestlers you like to win, it's also about cheering for wrestlers you hate to lose. To go back to the MMA analogy, an example: lots of people don't like Chael Sonnen because he's a loudmouthed bragging douchebag, and are eager to see him get roundhoused in the mouth. Lots of people (myself included) like him for exactly that reason and enjoy seeing him win and then act even more ridiculous. Even in pro wrestling this is sometimes the case; somebody brought up NJPW earlier and that's a great example, because you would never ever guess that Kazuchika Okada is apparently supposed to be a heel - he wrestles other heels like the Suzuki-gun and the Bullet Club, doesn't really do anything particularly 'bad guy'-ish apart from arrogance (which is pretty justifiable since he's one of the best in the world at the moment), and gets massive Jesus pops every time he shows up. After thinking about this, I don't think VGCW really has faces and heels in the traditional sense - we use the terminology because it's presented to us in a pro wrestling format, but really alignment is a popularity contest. (I don't use that term pejoratively, like it usually is, just to mean that somebody's alignment is much more subjective.)
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Nov 24, 2013 05:56
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Solomonic posted:After thinking about this, I don't think VGCW really has faces and heels in the traditional sense - we use the terminology because it's presented to us in a pro wrestling format, but really alignment is a popularity contest. (I don't use that term pejoratively, like it usually is, just to mean that somebody's alignment is much more subjective.) I would say it definitely has traditional faces and heels, but the medium itself doesn't necessarily require them to be present to stay compelling. VGCW doesn't need a story, people will show up to watch Octodad wrestle Ganondorf without a plot. A story does help to draw people in however. And as an example, Kefka is an out-and-out heel. Even as one of Gabes new lackeys, Adam reinforces to us that Kefka is still a danger. Flint would be the example of a character who fits the position of your traditional face. He is wholesomely Good. Aiding Nappa with reviving Vegeta, without asking anything in return.
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Nov 24, 2013 07:49
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Kazuya flopping so hard was a bitter experience. I thought he had potential to be a great yakuza tough guy character, kind of like an evil Kazuma Kiryu - and then you could see the writing on the wall 4 minutes later when he unceremoniously jobbed in his debut.
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Nov 24, 2013 13:05
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Haven't a lot of people done badly on entry, and had varying results afterwards?
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Nov 24, 2013 13:24
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Kazuya was a character who needed that suit yesterday and some real plot involvement. The dude was pure white hot rage, the leader of a global mega-corp that pretty much ruled the world, and insanely evil. He would have fit right in with The Practice but he never got off the ground because apparently his debut series was against loving HAGGAR. And I actually made a Kazuma Kiryu CAW but I'm still unsure about submitting him. I based him on Yakuza 5 so like all of his moves are punches, elbows, kicks, and headbutts.
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Nov 24, 2013 13:29
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