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Sundowner posted:Sorry for the lack of an update lately. I haven't forgotten! I've just been a mix of extremely busy with college, with not being able to sleep like a functioning human and a sort of blanket disinterest in playing games. Not to fear, those aren't pangs of potential abandonment. I really love this LP and making these videos. I've just been trying to find the right space of time to work on it because otherwise I'm going to sound like (more of) a monotonous zombie. Sweet! But don't work yourself to death on our account; college and sleep are important, so don't scrimp out. Internet Kraken: I'm sorry you feel that way, but I look forward to discussing your problems with the game in greater detail later. Discussion of the endgame is one of the reasons I'm following this thread, actually!
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Nov 25, 2013 15:15
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resurgam40 posted:college and sleep are important, so don't scrimp out.
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Nov 25, 2013 16:17
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Veyrall posted:We could just go to an alternate dimension where he's already well-rested, grab that update, and bring it back here. Should be simple. Unfortunately, in that universe, this is a Bioshock II let's play.
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Nov 25, 2013 16:19
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Veyrall posted:We could just go to an alternate dimension where he's already well-rested, grab that update, and bring it back here. Should be simple. Only to find out that in the alternate dimension he's doing it blind, with a facecam and in 20 parts per zone. e:f;b
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Nov 25, 2013 16:21
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 After traversing yet another tear, Booker and Elizabeth find themselves midst the pangs of revolution, as they approach the exit to the police building the roar of a great army of revolutionaries grows louder. (I hate this PC port)
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Nov 26, 2013 18:21
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Wait, what? So, we have a girl not in the tower, Slate willing to cooperate, a stronger Vox, DeWitt simultaneously dead and being lauded by the people he died for? Weird. I liked the brief 'DeWitt saying things akin to the previous dead/not dead quantum superposition people' bit, ending at Elizabeth's intervention. Interesting. Wonder why Lin is dead here, and which wife was that?
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Nov 26, 2013 19:34
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I don't know how Booker suddenly got the idea that Fitzroy is just as bad as Comstock, like the social and economic differences he has been encountering previously since the beginning of the game doesn't matter.
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Nov 26, 2013 19:44
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"I dreamed I saw deWitt last night, alive as you and me." I really liked Daisy's speeches in this section. Her delivery is pitch-perfect. <spoilers for update just posted> Thank goodness you hopped on board that zeppelin, killed everyone on it, and then destroyed it. Those things are dangerous. Now, on to finding an airship so you can get away from Columbia. Things are getting crazy, and you need to get out as soon as possible.
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Nov 26, 2013 19:49
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Oraculum Animi posted:I don't know how Booker suddenly got the idea that Fitzroy is just as bad as Comstock, like the social and economic differences he has been encountering previously since the beginning of the game doesn't matter. Drakyn posted:Yeah, especially because what with that last
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Nov 26, 2013 19:58
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Comstock and Fitzroy are as bad as each other, according to DeWitt? That 'dimension-jumping' is evidently messing with his head.
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Nov 26, 2013 20:11
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I can't believe you skyline striked that poor Vox guy near the end of video. He was just cheering you on, and you drop kicked him in the face! Also, revolution step 1: cover every building in red cloth. Branding is important.
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Nov 26, 2013 20:18
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Inferior posted:I can't believe you skyline striked that poor Vox guy near the end of video. He was just cheering you on, and you drop kicked him in the face! Haha, I was hoping no one would notice but then again when a 200lb guy flings himself from a sky rail, bladed-gauntlet first it's a little hard to miss. Oops!
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Nov 26, 2013 20:59
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Oraculum Animi posted:I don't know how Booker suddenly got the idea that Fitzroy is just as bad as Comstock, like the social and economic differences he has been encountering previously since the beginning of the game doesn't matter. Golden mean fallacy. Also privilege. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 21:03
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Fun fact: If you don't manage to get off the zeppelin in time you'll die, and then you'll wake up by Elizabeth dragging you to safety and reviving you. No idea how she manages that. (I may or may not know this based on my inability to escape the airship  )
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Nov 26, 2013 21:08
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Jetrauben posted:Golden means fallacy. Also privilege. I mean, I know it's not Comstock scale villainy but it's no surprise Booker's a little bitter.
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Nov 26, 2013 21:13
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Inferior posted:Also that time she stuck a gun in his face, stole his airship, and had him thrown from a great height onto Finkton docks. Oh come now. In FPS-verse those are practically just saying "hello." :P Fair point, but I think Elizabeth's reactions are also supposed to indicate now that the Vox are armed and capable of violent change of a corrupt and racist system, they have Gone Too Far. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 21:15
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It seems such a shame that this game's concept is setup to show different sides of corrupt and conflicting social systems but then only allows the player to interact via gunplay rather than direct involvement through personal decision making. What are the odds our "heroes" will enter a tear at some point into a dimension where Booker is on the side of Comstock? And I'm hoping we'll see some actual time-hopping, rather than just having the historical anachronisms as window dressing. Charge seems a cool ability. Along with the sky-rails it looks like it adds a nice kinetic feel to the game that often seems missing in modern tank-on-legs FPSes. Edit: And for someone who's led a life of near total seclusion, Elizabeth sure seems blasé about wandering through the front-lines of a full-on revolutionary war. (Before getting freaked out by a couple of corpses of folks she met for just the briefest of moments.) ynohtna fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 21:52
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Yeah the moment I got charge I just used it exclusively with a shotgun and a Rocket Launcher for a sidearm for the rest of the game.
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Nov 26, 2013 22:42
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Oraculum Animi posted:I don't know how Booker suddenly got the idea that Fitzroy is just as bad as Comstock, like the social and economic differences he has been encountering previously since the beginning of the game doesn't matter. The games have always been really proud of their moral choice system and grey areas but they're really terrible at creating them, so they just make a good path and an evil path and just pretend they're "two sides of the same coin".
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Nov 26, 2013 23:35
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Charge was just the best thing. By the time I got it I also had Gear that gave me Salt back for killing dudes and melees that set people on fire and god it was just the greatest thing. Why isn't charge available sooner? It makes fights fun. It kinda reminds me of playing Mass Effect 3 as a Manguard.
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Nov 26, 2013 23:36
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With Charge, we get my favourite combo of the game: Bronco Charge. That's not the official name, it's my bastardization of Bucking Bronco and Charge. You lead with Charge and follow up with Bucking Bronco. So fun.
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Nov 26, 2013 23:39
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Dr. Buttass posted:The games have always been really proud of their moral choice system and grey areas but they're really terrible at creating them, so they just make a good path and an evil path and just pretend they're "two sides of the same coin". Yes, because violent armed revolutions never leave tons of corpses along the way, many of them usually being guilty of just going along with the flow. Nah, that's crazy talk, they are justified, and as such, always the good path.
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Nov 27, 2013 00:13
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Part the Fourteenth:
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Nov 27, 2013 00:14
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Iceclaw posted:Yes, because violent armed revolutions never leave tons of corpses along the way, many of them usually being guilty of just going along with the flow. Nah, that's crazy talk, they are justified, and as such, always the good path. Well they're sure as hell not "the bad path", given everything we've seen. All that's being said is that Booker's yet to be confronted with evidence that Fitzroy is anywhere near as bad as Comstock. If the authors decide to shoehorn her in dropping puppies into an incinerator later, that's one thing, but "Revolutions are bad M'kay" is not a good reason for it. Was the Warsaw Uprising an issue of "two sides of the same coin"?
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Nov 27, 2013 00:17
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GenHavoc posted:Well they're sure as hell not "the bad path", given everything we've seen. All that's being said is that Booker's yet to be confronted with evidence that Fitzroy is anywhere near as bad as Comstock. If the authors decide to shoehorn her in dropping puppies into an incinerator later, that's one thing, but "Revolutions are bad M'kay" is not a good reason for it. Was the Warsaw Uprising an issue of "two sides of the same coin"? Booker's phrasing aside, it does not take a genius to figure the Vox Populi you see won't be exactly polite if they happen to luck upon some civilian. And there is kind of a point when you start slaughtering unarmed people where your cause kind of stop to matters. And any atrocity wrought upon by Fitzroy or the Vox wouldn't be shoehorned precisely becaus that's what happen in violent uprisings. See also: The Terror and French Revolution, Red October, the Khmer Rouge, the Chinese Revolution. Don't get me wrong, here: They usually uproot some really evil people, but that doesn't mean a lof of innocents aren't going to die. Iceclaw fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 00:29
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BOOKER. YOU NEED A ZEPPLIN. YOU ARE INSIDE A ZEPPLIN. WHY DID YOU BLOW UP THAT ZEPPLIN, AFTER YOU DEFEATED EVERYONE INSIDE!?
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Nov 27, 2013 00:37
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GenHavoc posted:I suppose this was implied before, but it appears that the men dead in one reality and alive in another (as Booker is) are able to remember the events of both realities at once. But the others we encountered seemed to be completely lost between dimensions, unable even to recognize what was going on around them. How is it that Booker is not? I think Elizabeth being there is why Booker hasn't gone insane from the duel memories yet. She's able to talk him through it. It probably also helps that Booker was there to step through the portal, while the (un)dead guards didn't have any clue what was happening to them when their memories suddenly included dying.
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Nov 27, 2013 00:43
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GenHavoc posted:I suppose this was implied before, but it appears that the men dead in one reality and alive in another (as Booker is) are able to remember the events of both realities at once. But the others we encountered seemed to be completely lost between dimensions, unable even to recognize what was going on around them. How is it that Booker is not? I suppose it could be that Booker can contextualise his mind-melt through his experience of the tears. And maybe Elizabeth coaxed him out of it not only with her words but with some more of that magical "wish fulfilment" pixie dust she seems to be hinting at. GenHavoc posted:I'm guessing this will come up eventually. But if Booker's a martyr in this world (and working with Slate, no less), just how did he die? Maybe this world's Booker disappeared into a tear?  GenHavoc posted:And is it just me, or did those two dead kneeling Founders look like they'd been executed? Most definitely looked like it to me! Iceclaw posted:Booker's phrasing aside, it does not take a genius to figure the Vox Populi you see won't be exactly polite if they happen to luck upon some civilian. And there is kind of a point when you start slaughtering unarmed people where your cause kind of stop to matters. Aye, and I guess Booker himself has some prior experience of how difficult it is to justify slaughtering unarmed people (Wounded Knee).
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Nov 27, 2013 00:44
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Captain Bravo posted:BOOKER. That zeppelin was in the way of him getting his airship. The only logical course of action was to blow it up.
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Nov 27, 2013 00:46
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Captain Bravo posted:BOOKER. Basically, Booker doesn't want a Crown Victoria...he wants a Porche 911.
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Nov 27, 2013 00:59
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Who here has played the Terran campaign in the original Starcraft? How'd that turn out for Raynor?ynohtna posted:Aye, and I guess Booker himself has some prior experience of how difficult it is to justify slaughtering unarmed people (Wounded Knee). Also this. Far as I'm aware the Founders are never explicitly said to have done machine gun purges.
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Nov 27, 2013 01:11
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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DeusExMachinima posted:Who here has played the Terran campaign in the original Starcraft? How'd that turn out for Raynor? Oh I'm sure one day there will be a seemingly well-intentioned rebel group that doesn't turn out to be equally as bad if not worse than the people they're rebelling against!
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Nov 27, 2013 01:14
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The problem with the equivocation is both plotting in-narrative and the use of extremely race- and class-charged imagery clashes awkwardly with it in a way that is problematic at best. Notice - and this is important to repeat - that every single Vox Populi soldier we've seen so far belongs to a group that is not only downtrodden in a wretchedly unjust fashion within Columbia but belongs to a group that the contemporary wisdom would have viewed as "non-white". (Irish and Slavs aren't yet considered "white" at the time this game is set.) It's a very abrupt, awkward sudden shift from "hey, this society literally stones interracial couples to death with baseballs and makes a big fete out of it, indulges in every horrific racist practice America ever did, has literally canonized John Wilkes Booth, and forced non-whites into a ghetto where they have to work 12-16 hour days for worthless company scrip" to "pity the victims of the uprising!"
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Nov 27, 2013 01:51
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Feinne posted:Oh I'm sure one day there will be a seemingly well-intentioned rebel group that doesn't turn out to be equally as bad if not worse than the people they're rebelling against! It's sadly what has happened to almost every violent revolutionary force in history no matter how just their cause has been. I know the whole "He who fights monsters yadda yadda yadda." thing is a cliché but it became one for a reason.
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Nov 27, 2013 02:12
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Forgall posted:I got a feeling that it's just authors awkwardly putting their own beliefs into characters' mouths. And look, somebody called it pages ago: Feinne posted:Oh I'm sure one day there will be a seemingly well-intentioned rebel group that doesn't turn out to be equally as bad if not worse than the people they're rebelling against! EDIT: and also really awkward to watch, because Jetrauben posted:The problem with the equivocation is both plotting in-narrative and the use of extremely race- and class-charged imagery clashes awkwardly with it in a way that is problematic at best. Notice - and this is important to repeat - that every single Vox Populi soldier we've seen so far belongs to a group that is not only downtrodden in a wretchedly unjust fashion within Columbia but belongs to a group that the contemporary wisdom would have viewed as "non-white". (Irish and Slavs aren't yet considered "white" at the time this game is set.) Drakyn fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 02:19
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Why couldn't we play the not-an-rear end in a top hat Booker? Wonder when/if we'll be able to colour code this universe. Maybe this is the Red one and the previous (Lin is alive) one was just Purple, a stepping stone from Blue to Red?
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Nov 27, 2013 02:30
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Pidmon posted:Why couldn't we play the not-an-rear end in a top hat Booker?
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Nov 27, 2013 02:33
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SirDan3k posted:It's sadly what has happened to almost every violent revolutionary force in history no matter how just their cause has been. I know the whole "He who fights monsters yadda yadda yadda." thing is a cliché but it became one for a reason. Revolution is hard because no matter how you swing it someone's going to die. You don't do it because you want everything to be awesome right afterwards, you're fighting to dismantle a system and replace it with a better one so people in the future will be better off. Remember the whole vision where Columbia flies down and destroys a city? Pretty sure that's a Founder and not a Vox thing.
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Nov 27, 2013 02:53
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So yeah, this is about where I felt like the game was insulting me by assuming I wouldn't think too hard about what was going on. Or at all really. Why are we in this alternate dimension? Why to to finish our deal with Fitzroy of course. Except, Fitzroy doesn't have any deal to complete with us. This a completely different world so there is no guarantee you ever made the deal in the first place. Even if you had, the Vox CLEARLY have their guns already. To top it all off, Booker is a wall known person in this universe and is dead. So not only is there no deal to be completed, but Booker is also supposed to be dead and him just randomly showing up is obviously going to cause problems. Yet our two protagonists blindly follow through with their current plan, despite their being no indication that it will work at all. Then, Booker talks about Fitzroy being just as bad as Comstock. This is obviously so you will think to yourself "Daisy is bad!", and by extension the rest of the Vox. Now if you've been paying attention at all, you know Fitzroy is nothing like Comstock. Comparing them is completely ridiculous. Right now the player has no reason to hate Daisy, but the writers want you too, so they randomly have Booker and Elizabeth muse on how she is just as bad as the egomaniac that oppresses over half his city without remorse. Then they go on trying to complete their idiotic deal with a person they apparently think is on the same level as Sky Hitler. THEN THEY BLOW UP A loving AIRSHIP MY GOD WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT!?!? Other people have mentioned this, but I need to talk about it. I need to because this is where I had to pause for a moment to reflect on how STUPID the developers think you are. This sequence makes 0 sense. Your current goal is to acquire an airship to escape Columbia. So to do this you BLOW UP AN AIRSHIP. You literally jump on, kill everyone inside, take control of it, and then chose to destroy it rather than just fly it off to Paris. No explanation is given. There isn't an ATTEMPT to justify this to the player. The developers just said "hey, lets put in a part where you blow up an airship! That will be cool right? Don't worry about the story, nobody is gonna think about it anyways. EXPLOSIONS!  "On one hand the game doesn't respect the player enough to have a coherent story where the gameplay doesn't create plot holes. On the other hand the developers expect you to really think hard about this setting and its characters. If you want me to take your story seriously, don't have me literally destroy the goal I'm supposed to be working towards.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:41
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I interpreted Booker's comment re: Fitzroy and Comstock as an expression of his cynicism and his attitudes regarding hero figures in general. 
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Nov 27, 2013 04:45
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