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Nilbop posted:Do people seriously not get tired of Noel Fielding's shtick after like, 1 scene? He was a pleasant enough addition to IT Crowd but good lord, having him anchor a show would be horrible.  But yeah you'd have to see if Fielding can actually do anything other than "flighty" or "Monty Python style looney".As long as we're going through all the British double acts let's all imagine Mayall/Edmondson for a minute.
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Nov 23, 2013 12:08
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thespaceinvader posted:I'd actually wonder about Mitchell and Webb, but I don't think Robert Webb has the suave to pull off Crowley - David Mitchell is a good fit for Aziraphale though. Paddy Considine as Aziraphale, Simon Pegg as Crowley. I'd love to see John Henshaw as Shadwell, too.
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Nov 23, 2013 12:40
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Jedit posted:Kristanna Loken as War is practically a gimme, though. Are you Uwe Boll or something? The most noteworthy thing about Kristanna Loken is that her surname means playing field (from the old norse leikr which means playing and vin which means field). I don't really have any ideas about who should be in an adaption of Good Omens, but having someone who could actually act would be nice.
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Nov 23, 2013 13:45
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Unless the script is significantly expanded, I don't think there are that many roles in there that require great acting. The role of War, as far as I can see, require effective posing more than anything. /shrug Oh, and if Stephen Fry is out, I nominate Colin Firth.
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Nov 23, 2013 15:08
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bondetamp posted:The role of War, as far as I can see, require effective posing more than anything. /shrug
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Nov 23, 2013 17:11
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bondetamp posted:Oh, and if Stephen Fry is out, I nominate Colin Firth. He's been out for years, but what's that got to do with his acting?
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Nov 24, 2013 00:11
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Finished Raising Steam, was better than the beginning suggested, though things like the emphasis on the Low King being female at all, which she basically declared back in Fifth Elephant rather than being openly a female ruler as Queen, how every single conversation between Moist and the Patrician included a blatant death threat from Vetinari - and I mean both REALLY blatant and I can't think of any dialogue between them that didn't have a hangsman mention, all the way to the end - and the phenomenonally anticlimatic ending dragged it down. Still better than Snuff and worse than UA, anyway.
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Nov 25, 2013 01:18
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How have you read the whole thing and are still weird about the Patrician/Moist dialogue? The "patrician" is not Vetinari for most of the book
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Nov 25, 2013 05:58
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... Most of the book? Not really, the Patrician becomes a stoker for the last journey, for which Moist spends the entire time on the train. I'm pretty sure Moist never talks to the impersonator. Unless I missed something.
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Nov 25, 2013 22:02
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AlphaDog posted:How have you read the whole thing and are still weird about the Patrician/Moist dialogue? ...cause I've been reading it on and off while going to and from work, 20 mins at a time and 12 hours apart, aaaaaaaaah still thought the definitely Vetinari parts were off, but he would have been playing the stoker long enough to become renowned so it could probably have been Charlie for enough of the book to count, so I can dig it
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Nov 26, 2013 03:44
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Illuyankas posted:...cause I've been reading it on and off while going to and from work, 20 mins at a time and 12 hours apart, aaaaaaaaah still thought the definitely Vetinari parts were off, but he would have been playing the stoker long enough to become renowned so it could probably have been Charlie for enough of the book to count, so I can dig it Raising Steam ending spoilers, continuing discussion: It also explains why Drumknott, who is so famously unflappable, turning into a complete railhead - he was busy getting instructions from Vetinari for Charlie when both of them were alone in the engine room. Though I think Iron Girdle would've been in on the secret, if she ever speaks about it.
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Nov 26, 2013 05:05
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^^^^^ That toothespaceinvader posted:... Most of the book? Not really, the Patrician becomes a stoker for the last journey, for which Moist spends the entire time on the train. I'm pretty sure Moist never talks to the impersonator. To be a famous stoker known by everyone, with a fierce reputation for shovel fighting, Vetinari would have to have been living the life pretty well since stokers started to be a thing. He'd have to go on shift enough that it wouldn't look weird, he'd have to attend shovel-fight-club, he'd have to socialise, etc. Unless he killed/disappeared the real Stoker, but I didn't pick up anything that even implied that. As for Drumknott, he always seems to develop an interest in anything he can sperg out about, so trains isn't a stretch for him even if you disregard the whole Stoker thing. There's even a subtle multi-book joke there with Vetinari (now a "Stoker") previously being implied to be involved with Lady M, the vampire. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 05:45
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AlphaDog posted:
It's not actually a multi-book joke. Dracula begins with Jonathan Harker having made a rail journey to Transylvania to discuss business with the Count.
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Nov 26, 2013 10:39
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Jedit posted:It's not actually a multi-book joke. Dracula begins with Jonathan Harker having made a rail journey to Transylvania to discuss business with the Count. Oh, I assumed it was the ongoing Vetinari / Margolotta kind-of-implied thing. I assumed from the start of the book that the reason Vetinari wanted the railway to uberwald so badly is so he could see more of her.
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Nov 26, 2013 12:18
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I got the impression that he wanted everyone to think that, but he was really anticipating the dwarf coup, or something similar where fast travel would be required for diplomatic reasons.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:15
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AlphaDog posted:^^^^^ That too OOOOOOh. Yeah, now it makes more sense.
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Nov 27, 2013 23:35
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Just finished Raising Steam on the train to work. It was ok, better than Snuff and UA, mostly since Moist is a better character than the later versions of Vimes and the Wizards. The book really felt like it had a too high pace, where he tried to fit in as much of the railroad development as possible. The grags were really bad villains ie no characterization whatsoever. The association to muslims is however rather accurate. And everyone was off course a bad rear end fighter. In some ways the book felt like Pratchett put together a Dream Team of his characters and just went from there. We were just missing the Witches and Cohen to make that complete. I feel more and more that Ankh-Morpork is loosing it's charm once it becomes civilized and organized. I liked the chaotic version of Ankh-Morpork in Colour of Magic, Sourcery and Guards Guards!. Holy poo poo, there is actually 40 Discworld books and I've read them all.
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Nov 28, 2013 10:36
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Cardiac posted:Just finished Raising Steam on the train to work. Did you send this by clacks STOP Because it sure as hell reads like an old telegram STOP Also the Grags aren't specifically muslim, it's more 'any type of extremist' I think.
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Nov 28, 2013 10:43
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Pidmon posted:Also the Grags aren't specifically muslim, it's more 'any type of extremist' I think. True, it's a rather good description of the infighting and rigidity that occurs within extremist groups, whether they are religious, left-wing or right-wing.
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Nov 28, 2013 11:45
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Pidmon posted:Did you send this by clacks STOP Each to their own; I was just trying to come up with dwarfs that fitted into the modern fantasy tradition but worked." I think you could apply almost all religions to the dwarfs and still have it work.
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Nov 28, 2013 13:41
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Here's the problem I've got with Raising Steam. You've got a bunch of characters who over the course of 35-odd books always win, and now they're teaming up with each other to do something together that they all agree on and want to happen and never disagree about in any way. There's nobody from outside who seems capable of chucking a spanner in their works, and since they all agree on everything right from the start, they're not going to have to overcome infighting. Result: zero narrative tension. Of course Vimes and Detritus are going to beat the poo poo out of the grags, and of course Moist is going to pull something out of his arse to save the day - there's nobody and nothing who could possibly stop them doing these things that they've previously shown that they're extremely competent at.
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Nov 29, 2013 19:24
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thespaceinvader posted:OOOOOOh. Yeah, now it makes more sense. Drumknott specifically says it was only two weeks.
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Nov 29, 2013 19:48
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Cardiac posted:The book really felt like it had a too high pace, where he tried to fit in as much of the railroad development as possible. It's the same sort of thing that always happens when an idea leaks into Discworld - look at Moving Pictures. A whole industry is built and destroyed seemingly within months. Same with the town. Stroth posted:Drumknott specifically says it was only two weeks. Vetinari isn't exactly knows for the way he never lies or deceives anyone. Trin Tragula posted:Here's the problem I've got with Raising Steam. You've got a bunch of characters who over the course of 35-odd books always win, and now they're teaming up with each other to do something together that they all agree on and want to happen and never disagree about in any way. There's nobody from outside who seems capable of chucking a spanner in their works, and since they all agree on everything right from the start, they're not going to have to overcome infighting. I can't argue with this, but it's not a new problem with Discworld. Vimes picks up the "can't be beaten" thing in what, Feet Of Clay? He's certainly got it in Night Watch and Thud, and those are two of my favorites. It's also a thing with the Witches. And Death.
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Nov 30, 2013 06:34
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AlphaDog posted:I can't argue with this, but it's not a new problem with Discworld. Vimes picks up the "can't be beaten" thing in what, Feet Of Clay? He's certainly got it in Night Watch and Thud, and those are two of my favorites. It's also a thing with the Witches. And Death. And Moist's entire thing is that when it comes down to the wire he'll
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Nov 30, 2013 08:42
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Stroth posted:And Moist's entire thing is that when it comes down to the wire he'll I guess, yeah. Didn't really think of Moist. In fact, I don't think Discworld is ever about "will the hero succeed?" They're never those kinds of stories. Rincewind runs away and lives. Vimes catches the baddie. The entertainment is never in wondering about who's going to win.
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Nov 30, 2013 13:14
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To me it has always been 'How will they get out of this mess? and 'will I have a good laugh over it?'.
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Nov 30, 2013 16:47
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Maybe I didn't formulate that properly; let me try again. It's not necessarily that there aren't any baddies, but there aren't any problems.AlphaDog posted:I can't argue with this, but it's not a new problem with Discworld. Vimes picks up the "can't be beaten" thing in what, Feet Of Clay? He's certainly got it in Night Watch and Thud, and those are two of my favorites. In Night Watch, Vimes has to: Catch Carcer, and do it properly and by the book to boot Fill John Keel's role, both within the structure of the Watch and as mentor to himself Deal with the new, ahistorical threat from the Cable Street Particulars Not bugger up the timeline too badly Resist his own urge to just wallow in the past and never go back home to his wife and son Be generally true to himself while achieving all of the above These things are all great challenges for him, which he struggles mightily with and then overcomes in the end. Sure, one of them's a great and memorable baddie, but more of them aren't; that's why it's such a good book, neh? Thud doesn't have a baddie like Carcer, but Vimes still has to: Solve the murder of Grag Hamcrusher Stop the city erupting in riots, and deal with the situation in the Cham when it comes to a head Dodge the grags that are trying to assassinate him Resist the urge to give in to the Summoning Dark Find the truth of what happened at Koom Valley Deal with being forced to have a vampire in his Watch Babysit A.E. Pessimal And all while being a good father to Young Sam and being back home exactly on time to read to him The stakes have raised again and again so that he's still being challenged by events and having to struggle with them, but there are still challenges for him to overcome. Likewise, in Going Postal, Moist has to: Come up with a succession of ideas to revitalise the Post Office Stop anyone finding out that he used to be a crook Exorcise the Post Office building Dodge assassination attempts Win the heart of Adora Belle Expose Reacher Gilt's misdeeds enough for Lord Vetinari to justify stepping in While doing all of the above, not annoy Vetinari enough that he cuts his losses on the deal That's quite enough to be getting on with, and of course it's a huge struggle trying to juggle it all; so when he pulls the miracle out of his arse at the end, it's a natural climax to his having to deal with all these problems. Now, in Raising Steam, what do they have to do? Moist is nearly seriously challenged by having to negotiate with the landowners, but almost as soon as that challenge is introduced, it's solved again. He's nearly seriously challenged again by the grags, but then he's able to beat some of them up and then increase security so he doesn't have to do it again. Then he has to get the train over the bridge, but this time when he pulls something out of his arse it's dull and has no impact because he's been so singularly unchallenged by everything else in the book. Vimes presumably has to keep the peace in the city, but we never get to see him doing any of that; all he has to do on-screen is protecting the train. Simnel just wants to build his railway, and is given a free hand and kept carefully insulated from everything else that's going on, and he never suffers any engineering setbacks or problems or competition. The three people with apparently the biggest challenges are Harry King, Lord Vetinari, and the Low Queen. Harry King's got a lot of money but he's out of his element when it comes to railways. The Queen has rumblings in the interior and then gets trapped a thousand miles away from the coup attempt. If Vetinari can't keep the peace, he's going to have a civil war in his city. But they all solve the problem in the same way; they just put one of the other characters on the case, who sort it out easily. There's barely any messes for anyone to get into in the first place.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:16
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Yup. This nailed a lot of my issues with Raising Steam. Well said.
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Dec 1, 2013 04:43
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Yeah, I agree. I didn't get your full meaning from what you posted before. It's a genuine (in my opinion small) problem with Raising Steam, and it's why I previously said it might have worked better as a series of short stories. I still liked it more than UA.
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Dec 1, 2013 04:49
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I don't know how to describe how I feel about Raising Steam. It kind of feels like I'm reading fanfic. Just not feeling right, and not finding much humour in it either. Not hating it, but meh. Especially not enjoying the Moist and "Spike" relationship.
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Dec 2, 2013 07:31
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Stroth posted:And Moist's entire thing is that when it comes down to the wire he'll More like pull the miracle out of his rear end. And then everyone clamors to buy it.
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Dec 2, 2013 07:51
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BurgerQuest posted:I don't know how to describe how I feel about Raising Steam. It kind of feels like I'm reading fanfic. Just not feeling right, and not finding much humour in it either. Not hating it, but meh. Especially not enjoying the Moist and "Spike" relationship. If more people enjoyed the marriage as much as the courting, there wouldn't be a 50% divorce rate.
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Dec 2, 2013 09:45
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BurgerQuest posted:I don't know how to describe how I feel about Raising Steam. It kind of feels like I'm reading fanfic. Just not feeling right, and not finding much humour in it either. Not hating it, but meh. Especially not enjoying the Moist and "Spike" relationship. Fanfiction.net posted:"Sam," she interrupted. "I know." She smiled gently. "It's ok, I know what you're like with work. If I didn't understand I wouldn't have married you." She walked towards him and Vimes noticed that she seemed more….dressy….than usual. Stopping in front of him, Sybil reached up and threaded her fingers through his hair softly. Her smile widened at his obvious confusion. Looking at fanfiction.net, I can't agree that the quality of his writing is that bad. I still can feel the characters as characters and not cutouts. There are some things that do feel off, like Spike quitting smoking with no mention? But I still feel that the books do stand on their own. Though, "Thief of Time" is still the book I like best. I just might have weird taste? SystemLogoff fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 10:02
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SystemLogoff posted:Though, "Thief of Time" is still the book I like best. I just might have weird taste? No, Thief of Time is fantastic. A very, very close second to Night Watch for me.
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Dec 2, 2013 11:37
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Thief of Time probably has my favorite theme, but it's not my favorite story and (like Night Watch, which may be my favorite story) is really not that funny. They have funny moments, but the stories are quite dark and moving. I mean, "Deja Fu", "...and a hard boiled egg" sure, the books have jokes. They're just not exactly comedies. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 11:44
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AlphaDog posted:They're just not exactly comedies. This is true, but is there a funnier comedic sequence anywhere than Vimes walking back into Treacle Mine Road as sergeant-at-arms? "It's what they used to call the hat of authority..."
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Dec 2, 2013 14:01
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I just finished reading Raising Steam. It was decent, but not his greatest work. I noticed that when Adora Belle was talking to Angua, she mentioned an Igorina being in the forensics department on the Watch. I assume this is meant to be the same Igorina who's supposed to be a major character in The Watch tv series they're making?
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Dec 3, 2013 18:49
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Was I the only one to find Raising Steam really, really philosophically inconsistent with both the previous books, and then with itself even more blatantly? So, what, Vimes is just cool with violently murdering bad people now, without any process or, loving, anything? And torturing them to death? That's like, the literal opposite of the message of Night Watch. Death shows up and does the whole ''bringing you to what you believe'' afterlife thing, but no, what these guys believe is actually, wrong? He stands there and kind of snarkily describes how your god disagrees with you? Worst though by far were the grags, who's grand plan is like seriously ''go stir some trouble up in bars(??????), kidnap people and tell them they'll kill their family, kidnapping people, releasing them, paying them for their time and then killing them (????????) take over dwarfdom, loving, somehow, gently caress trains'' but to get back on point, we then we learn that the good guys are keeping Charlie in check by implicitly threatening his loving family! Veterari alternates every scene between pontificating about the subtle role of the prince in a city of angels and just threatening to have the owner and operator of like, half the functioning government violently murdered on a whim. It was better then Snuff, and at least it was a more entertaining ride then UA, but I just find myself utterly baffled by the morality of it.
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Dec 5, 2013 22:02
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Jedit posted:If more people enjoyed the marriage as much as the courting, there wouldn't be a 50% divorce rate. There is not a 50% divorce rate. That makes this saying stupid. Think I'm going to give Raising Steam a miss. I genuinely hated Snuff and this is looking like more of the same, only this time it torpedoes characters related to Moist as well as Vimes. Making Money wasn't exactly the best conclusion to Moist's story, but I'm comfortable leaving it there.
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Dec 7, 2013 06:35
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Oxxidation posted:There is not a 50% divorce rate. That makes this saying stupid. You're right, it isn't 50%. It's only 42%.
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Dec 7, 2013 14:18
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