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ookiimarukochan posted:A reasonable number of those famous manufacturing techniques, the ones related to mechanisation of the system at least, were ignored in Japan (because Japanese labour was hilariously cheap - THAT is one of the big reasons they got successful, and when the price of labour went up they started to stagnate and Korea took over. Korea is now losing (has lost?) out to China for the same reason. Something similar is going on in India, where the wages in outsourcing are going up enough that throwing bodies at a project is becoming too expensive) - that's why so many Brazilians left the country a few years ago. They worked in the automotive industry, and were being replaced by sensors and software. Continuing this economic derail. I know very little about what drives decisions in corporate Japan, but are companies as beholden to investors here as they are in the US? Is constant profit gains each quarter as huge a deal here as it is in the US? Was it the case in the 80's (hence the push to etch out more gains)?
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Nov 11, 2013 15:01
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They're beholden to investors in an extremely literal interpretation. That's like half the reason keiretsu are keiretsu, the companies within each keiretsu just buy each other's stock so that they don't have to respond to anyone but themselves.
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Nov 11, 2013 15:05
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ookiimarukochan posted:(I think that pretty much everyone in this thread who's worked in Japan has either been an English teacher or transferred on an ex-pat package so they're unaware of how much weird anti-foreigner bullshit there is in Japan right now in most fields of work - and this was something that started happening around late 2008/early 2009, before then being a foreigner had been considered a benefit) I'm not sure of every persons' story but there are any number of people here who are/were local hires in non-English teaching jobs. I'm guessing that, considering the time period you're talking about, the foreigner bias that you're seeing is probably at some level a result of the Lehman shock, either companies having a greater awareness of the (supposed) risk of hiring a foreigner who might up and leave on relatively short notice, or not wishing to put out the money for someone with actual skills because they think they can get results from taking some kid and paying him 15man a month. There probably is awareness that a large number/most(?) foreigners who get hired tend to quit very quickly, and that a lot of them, even those with language skills, can't mesh with the business culture (of course a lot of that probably has to do with the business culture being such poo poo). Is your identification of this trend based upon just your own personal observations, or have other people you know noticed the same thing? LimburgLimbo fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Nov 11, 2013 |
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Nov 11, 2013 15:49
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Yeah I wouldn't put any stock in personal anecdotes for something like that. Like myself I know several people who have recently been hired as permanent, job-for-life workers for huge corporations including Panasonic, Mitsubishi Fuso, straight up, not transfers or anything. These people are all very, very foreign. "I didn't get hired for these jobs" is not very compelling, sorry.
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Nov 11, 2013 15:55
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LimburgLimbo posted:I'm guessing that, considering the time period you're talking about, the foreigner bias that you're seeing is probably at some level a result of the Lehman shock Zo posted:Like myself I know several people who have recently been hired as permanent, job-for-life workers for huge corporations including Panasonic, Mitsubishi Fuso, straight up, not transfers or anything. These people are all very, very foreign. Firstly, there's never been many young technical foreigners getting hired in Japan (My first job in Japan was when I was 23, the only people I've known to do something like that were Chinese citizens who'd gone to university in Japan) and secondly, multinationals have always been a different case. On top of that the software industry is kinda weird, especially the embedded field. Here what happened is that departments worth of people quit around the turn of the last century, set up their own small companies, and started working contract-to-contract with the companies they'd worked for in the past - however, unlike when you're dealing with outsourcing to India, where you're just talking about "resources", they will actually treat each proposed employee for a project as a new hire (one of the side effects of this is that the only programmers who have "jobs for life" are direct employees of the huge corporations. Oh, and outside the embedded development world, if you're still a "programmer" after the age of 30, it looks weird. One of my friends was actually moved from a dev role to an HR management role after he hit 30, due to his age!) Can't find any solid statistics infuriatingly but it looks like the number of engineering visas being granted actually started dropping around 2007 which is earlier than I'd have thought - I did notice a New York Times article from 2012 talking about how desperate for foreign engineers Japan is as they'd never outsource development work (this is hilarious - obviously the writer has never heard of the term "Bridge SE" (it's something I did early on, but outsourcing switched from using India to using China, generally setting up Chinese subsidiaries rather than established outsourcers, and I don't speak any Chinese)
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Nov 11, 2013 16:37
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ookiimarukochan posted:What sort of age, what sort of job? Mid-20s, and the job is just "full time worker". They basically get trained on whatever the company needs and work there - I think this is pretty common but I've never worked as a lifer so I don't know for sure. Although from the two I talk to the most, they actually had some input on what department they wanted to work in. Both of them are engineering graduates.
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Nov 11, 2013 17:01
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ookiimarukochan posted:"Japan" - I've already explained what a cluster-gently caress software development over there is. There were several points that they brought in new grads and tried to train them up to job that I could already do because I was a foreigner (and, though not making ex-pat money I *was* making more than the fresh grads, partly due to age and partly due to the fact I had an actual engineering degree) There's also the fact that it could well have just been "We'd rather hire a fresh grad than a foreigner" i.e. there is NO way we would hire a foreigner, this being followed with "and of course it's the same in the UK, the US, France, etc etc" which they would believe no matter how many times they were told they were wrong. Reminds me of the time Jossos went in for a translation job that fit him perfectly only to be bluntly told "sorry, we want a Japanese person."
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Nov 11, 2013 18:32
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ookiimarukochan posted:Way way way too many Japanese - the majority I suspect - don't realise how bad a mistake it is to ask someone to translate OUT of their A language into a language that for them is B at best. This only gets worse when it's a technical document full of language particular to a certain domain (electronics, software, etc) my favourite tell being when you are reading about "web screens" (ウェブ画面 not "web page" in Japan) I agree. One thing that I think both Japanese businesses looking for J-to-E translation and greenhorn translators (like me) in general underestimate is how important it is for anything that could be described as an advertisement to not just be clean and precise, but to have a certain contemporary charm and rhythm. If I were to pursue translation full-time, I might try to acquire some formal training/credentials in marketing and advertisement design (from a western institution, of course). It actually seems like a good opportunity to fill a niche, because way too many companies wind up just handing all their Japanese materials to Joe Freelance and using the direct, complete translation of that rather than something that's been adapted and, where appropriate, rewritten altogether.
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Nov 11, 2013 19:24
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Honestly, I don't see any reason to translate advertising materials at all if it can be avoided, rather than starting from scratch. However, the problem I expect you will run into is that it will be hard to convince companies to change things if they are starting from the expectation that they can get by with translation in the first place. Probably the person in charge of getting an English version made won't even have the authority to make editorial decisions about content.
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Nov 11, 2013 20:10
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mystes posted:Honestly, I don't see any reason to translate advertising materials at all if it can be avoided, rather than starting from scratch. It saves a lot of money and maintains brand coherency. There are a poo poo-load of gotchas though - MacDonalds decided to use global campaigns AND picked a German agency (To avoid being too Anglo-centric, I believe) who then came up with the "I'd hit it" campaign. Coca-Cola launched their processed-tap water brand as Dasani in the US and UK (They're usually good about using different names in different territories for a reason that will soon become obvious) and the US agency put out a paper / web campaign that said "Dasani - bottled spunk". The campaign was SUPPOSED to be US only but English-language sites on the internet come up for search results in all English speaking countries... ("spunk" is slang for semen in the UK if you were unaware) The "Herbal Essances" campaign was world wide, except they didn't re-dub the US advert for the UK, "Urge for Herbal" not making sense in a country which doesn't drop Hs. Apple's "I'm A Mac" campaign bombed hard in the UK because the Mac ended up coming across as a smug bastard and the PC came across as likeable. Came and went pretty fast in Japan too, for similar reasons I guess. (If you're a Japanese reseller of foreign software, especially if it's selling into the IT industry rather than the general market, it's pretty common to just translate the English language campaign as-is because with all the loan words involved it's closer to transliteration than translation. Done it myself AND seen it done by even big names like MS and IBM) Also I think the rebranding of Marathons to Snickers in the UK (to be able to re-use advertising) was a success, and Opal Fruits to Starburst was a partial success - they do do nostalgia runs with the original name from time to time.
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Nov 11, 2013 21:02
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ookiimarukochan posted:(I think that pretty much everyone in this thread who's worked in Japan has either been an English teacher or transferred on an ex-pat package so they're unaware of how much weird anti-foreigner bullshit there is in Japan right now in most fields of work - and this was something that started happening around late 2008/early 2009, before then being a foreigner had been considered a benefit) Nah, when I was looking for my first real job here at least half the places I looked at just straight up said we don't hire foreigners. I've since learned to read the warning signs and don't even apply at those places anymore. For programming jobs at small companies at least, you can get a pretty good read on a company just by the kind of technology they're using.
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Nov 11, 2013 23:55
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Stringent posted:Nah, when I was looking for my first real job here at least half the places I looked at just straight up said we don't hire foreigners. Zo posted:huge corporations including Panasonic, Mitsubishi Fuso ookiimarukochan fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 01:22
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mystes posted:Honestly, I don't see any reason to translate advertising materials at all if it can be avoided, rather than starting from scratch.
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Nov 12, 2013 03:03
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Fine, I suppose there are reasons why it would be a good idea, I'm just not convinced that this applies to most cases in which Japanese companies would actually try to translate existing advertising copy into English.
mystes fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 04:11
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ookiimarukochan posted:I sort of missed this earlier, but you've managed to include one of the world's biggest multinationals AND a German-owned company there. Not the greatest set of examples - please don't tell me you were going to use "Nissan" as your reserve example. I don't know why they aren't good examples. They are extremely Japanese companies and it seems you just want to pull an endless list of excuses to make up for your own personal failure in not being able to land certain jobs. Yes clearly the local HR guy got an emergency call from his German overlord eight management layers up to hire my buddy.
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Nov 12, 2013 04:38
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So in case anyone hasn't heard, Wikileaks has a TPP draft. I'm looking forward to seeing how opinions about the TPP are affected after the Japanese media have a chance to read it. Edit: Oh, it's just the intellectual property part which most people in Japan won't give a crap about, that's too bad. I hope they get the rest. mystes fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 01:32
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Snowden barely got a peep here, I dunno why this new revelation would do anything unless rice counts as an intellectual property. (Knowing Japan it probably does somewhere)
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Nov 14, 2013 05:42
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Reverend Cheddar posted:Snowden barely got a peep here, I dunno why this new revelation would do anything unless rice counts as an intellectual property. (Knowing Japan it probably does somewhere)
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Nov 14, 2013 06:41
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Reverend Cheddar posted:Snowden barely got a peep here, I dunno why this new revelation would do anything unless rice counts as an intellectual property. (Knowing Japan it probably does somewhere) Genetically modified rice maybe? I assume Japan bans that all anyway because of  science .
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Nov 14, 2013 06:42
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Reverend Cheddar posted:Snowden barely got a peep here, I dunno why this new revelation would do anything unless rice counts as an intellectual property. (Knowing Japan it probably does somewhere) Aren't they about to add some laws upping the penalties for whistle blowing? I doubt they'd want the papers talking about Snowden and getting people thinking about it before they could pass those.
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Nov 14, 2013 07:22
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Similar to how before the last election the supreme court found that the disparity in the weight of votes was unconstitutional but wasn't about to actually stop the election because of it, now the supreme court has found that indeed the election was kind of sort of unconstitutional but not like invalid or anything.
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Nov 20, 2013 19:53
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Rule of law, who needs that?
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Nov 21, 2013 00:32
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Well to be fair, if they did invalidate the election then there wouldn't be a Diet to fix the problem.
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Nov 21, 2013 00:39
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But if they don't invalidate it why bother fixing it at all? Haven't the past like, three elections been unconstitutional?
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Nov 21, 2013 01:21
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quote:In 1976 and 1985, the Supreme Court ruled that disparities of up to 4.99 times and 4.40 times in lower house elections conducted under multiple-seat electoral system in 1972 and 1983, respectively, were unconstitutional, but fell short of declaring the results invalid.
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Nov 21, 2013 02:57
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So, the Japanese Supreme court has ruled multiple elections unconstitutional but specifically avoided saying "invalid" to avoid the clusterfuck it would cause. Is that a cultural "don't rock the boat" thing or do the politicians and political parties hold so much power that not even the national Supreme court can cross that line and cause a government crisis. pentyne fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Nov 21, 2013 |
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Nov 21, 2013 08:59
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Wow, their supreme court is some weak sauce.
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Nov 21, 2013 09:00
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pentyne posted:So, the Japanese Supreme court has ruled multiple elections unconstitutional but specifically avoided saying "invalid" to avoid the clusterfuck it would cause. A little of A, a little of B. Plus being able to count on your population largely not giving a poo poo helps too.
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Nov 21, 2013 09:16
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Samurai Sanders posted:Wow, their supreme court is some weak sauce. What do you propose? To declare the results invalid means to topple the government and to dissolve the parliament, which is a pretty big deal and goes a little beyond just "Checks and Balances". In an ideal world, declaring a result unconstitutional spurs parliament to change the election laws. Except in this situation they didn't, because what are you going to do, drag us from the chamber  ?
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Nov 21, 2013 12:59
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ArchangeI posted:What do you propose? To declare the results invalid means to topple the government and to dissolve the parliament, which is a pretty big deal and goes a little beyond just "Checks and Balances". In an ideal world, declaring a result unconstitutional spurs parliament to change the election laws. Except in this situation they didn't, because what are you going to do, drag us from the chamber Well, there is another route, which is what I think they're hoping to do; they can change the constitution.
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Nov 21, 2013 13:02
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ArchangeI posted:What do you propose? To declare the results invalid means to topple the government and to dissolve the parliament, which is a pretty big deal and goes a little beyond just "Checks and Balances". In an ideal world, declaring a result unconstitutional spurs parliament to change the election laws. Except in this situation they didn't, because what are you going to do, drag us from the chamber Stringent posted:Well, there is another route, which is what I think they're hoping to do; they can change the constitution. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if his solution would be to change the constitution to make the vote disparity constitutional considering the LDP stands to benefit from it. mystes fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Nov 21, 2013 |
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Nov 21, 2013 15:06
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So the latest with the Senkakus/Diayou islands is China incorporating them in an air-defense zone. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/11/japan-protests-new-china-air-defence-zone-2013112313117557543.html How much of an escalation does this actually represent? If Japanese aircraft stop entering airspace over the islands or acknowledge Chinese authority, that seems like a significant gain to China. On the other hand, if they don't acknowledge the Chinese when entering island airspace, the Chinese government/military might feel they're forced to respond or lose face. The Chinese've done stuff like this in the past with the Philippines in the South China sea, but Japan seems a lot less likely to back down.
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Nov 23, 2013 20:29
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Adventure Pigeon posted:So the latest with the Senkakus/Diayou islands is China incorporating them in an air-defense zone. I don't think Japan can really back down here. Significantly Japan also made the RoE for drones that they can be shot down if they don't respond demands to leave... basically escalation on both sides. At the moment of course it's all still words, but every time they do these things they increase the chance that someone will start shooting.
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Nov 23, 2013 20:35
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LimburgLimbo posted:I don't think Japan can really back down here. Significantly Japan also made the RoE for drones that they can be shot down if they don't respond demands to leave... basically escalation on both sides. Though, Japan said it would consider shooting drones down, which leaves them an out if they don't. China, on the other hand, has placed an active requirement on aircraft entering Senkaku/Diayou airspace. That seems like a significant escalation.
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Nov 23, 2013 20:39
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My feeling is that nothing will really change. All they are doing is publicly announcing they are meeting Japan policy for policy. Most of the waters around Senkaku are still Aircraft ID zones, and shooting first and asking questions later isn't usually what you do in those areas.
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Nov 24, 2013 04:52
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Well, the state secret bill just passed the lower house, so nothing stands in its way anymore, despite overwhelming public opposition. For those who are not aware, it's a heavy handed and broad bill that punishes any leaks which create "obstacles" to national security. The terms for what kind of information is considered classified are also unclear. This kind of language basically lets the government jail anybody they want on vague terms. I mean we all know japan and the uk are basically US puppet states but it's cute how hard they try to emulate america.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:10
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Zo posted:I mean we all know japan and the uk are basically US puppet states but it's cute how hard they try to emulate america.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:28
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Kenishi posted:I've always felt the two have always gone overboard in whatever they emulate as well. What is it, some attempt to show they can actually do more than the US?
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Nov 27, 2013 05:32
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Kenishi posted:I've always felt the two have always gone overboard in whatever they emulate as well. What is it, some attempt to show they can actually do more than the US? Part of the rationale for this legislation had to do with being able to be kept in the informational loop on things in the future. The thinking is that if Japan doesn't have similar kinds of protection of state secrets to the US then the US won't be comfortable giving Japan information because there wouldn't be as many assurances that it wouldn't be leaked. It's kind of dumb logic considering we still get leaks in the US even with similar laws, but the mechanics of it seem less important than the message-sending aspect of it. Since the message-sending aspect is actually more important then it makes sense in a kind of, "well now nobody would ever be able to complain about X again!" kind of way. This is the common justification I've heard for it in Japanese media every time the issue is brought up. It'll be interesting to see if the law is ever actually enforced. I have a feeling it might actually be since this one involves giving the government more power to screw people over rather than taking that power away.
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Nov 27, 2013 06:22
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah, I see this opinion on 2ch all the time. "Good job (current prime minister), keep loving us even worse than the US government fucks its citizens". THANKS ABEMA
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Nov 27, 2013 06:28
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