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I was talking to someone about 40k once and he was completely incredulous that the mutant and alien hating Imperium regularly used troops as heavily mutated as Ogryns and Ratlings and were okay having them around until I pointed out that if any Puritanical Inquisitor questioned the faith of an Ogryn it would be the Inquisitor who would end up looking like a heretic by comparison. Ogryns love them some Emprah.
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Nov 26, 2013 15:56
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Ogryns and Ratlings aren't mutants - they are abhumans, humans who after centuries of living on some planet adapted to its environment in a certain way and are a stable subspecies of humanity essentially.
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Nov 26, 2013 18:52
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Remember that navigators and astropaths are mutants too. The Imperium has a long history of accepting mutations that benefit it and declaring them to be technically not mutations. Although there are several groups in the Imperium that see the eventual destruction of anything not bog standard human as their end goal, and even that definition varies a poo poo ton and they're willing to make short term concessions. The Black Templars still use navigators to get around on their never ending crusade. Edit: That'd be a fun Rogue Trader planet actually. "Here, we found this planet of people who are all usefully mutated and have an ironclad faith in the Emperor. Start running a PR campaign and bribing the clergy in Port Wander so you can sell them without getting heresy accusations." Benagain fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 18:57
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Benagain posted:Remember that navigators and astropaths are mutants too. The Imperium has a long history of accepting mutations that benefit it and declaring them to be technically not mutations. Astropaths are psykers brought before the Golden Throne to get sandblasted by the Emperor's dying might, linking them psychically to the Astronomicon. This connection is what gives them the "signal boost" as it were to perform their namesake, astrological-scale telepathy. They aren't mutants. VVVVVVVVVV Oh yeah, fair enough. Slipped my mind. apostateCourier fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 19:04
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Aren't human psykers technically mutants depending on who you ask?
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Nov 26, 2013 19:13
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PantsOptional posted:Aren't human psykers technically mutants depending on who you ask? Yes.
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Nov 26, 2013 19:16
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Many human societies included some sort of hated but essential outsider group of people, who are allowed to do important but officially forbidden things because they are accursed Others or whatever.
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Nov 26, 2013 19:39
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Many human societies included some sort of hated but essential outsider group of people, who are allowed to do important but officially forbidden things because they are accursed Others or whatever. If I ever get to play another DH game, I'm making a sanctioned psyker and slipping in thinly-disguised Shylock lines wherever I can. 
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Nov 26, 2013 19:58
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In the older 40k stuff, the Imperium actually had Beastman regiments. They were basicaly penal legions, with their crime being 'mutant'. So they'd get deployed to lovely places with the promise that if they died fighting for the Emperor he would absolve them of their terrible sin of not being fully human. This has all vanished in more recent stuff, obviously.
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Nov 26, 2013 20:06
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I think the other thing I was thinking about the craftsmanship of the Cerebral Implants was that they were evaluating the Ogryns and saving the best implants for the most promising Ogryns. 'Comedy' Option Because of a paperwork error, everyone in the Regiment gets Common Craftsmanship Cereberal Implants. Or to be GrimDark, everyone has them because the regiment is mostly horribly wounded fellow vets who the Commanding Officer has saved from being sent to the Servitor farm.  Yet another complication; important people think they would be more useful as servitors. This is like some kind of Universal Soldier regiment. The commanding officer is now Jean-Claude Van Damme. And the Ogryns are because of economies of scale in producing industrial quantities of Cerebral Implants, and if you've got the implants, 10 foot tall monsters are great candidates. A game of this would probably want 1 Sergeant, 1 Techpriest (with Medicae), probably a Commissar, maybe a Priest, maybe a Psyker, and everyone else is Ogryns. Experimental Ogryn Regiment / Recycled Regiment +3 WP BS TO -3 PE +3 BS OR WS [Implant; -6 WS BS AG IN FE] Common Lore (Imperial Guard), Common Lore (Imperium), Common Lore (War), Linguistics (High Gothic, Low Gothic), Tech-Use Bombardier, Resistance (Fear), Air of Authority OR Unshakeable Faith, Double Team OR Combat Master [Berserk Charge OR Cold Hearted OR Frenzy OR Paranoia] +1 Wounds +10 Logistics for Augmetics +10 BS at point blank range Condemned (They're the robot zombie Added to Standard Kit Compact Lascarbine (Main Weapon), 4 powerpacks Mono Knife Light Carapace Armor (Good Craftsmanship) Auxilliary Grenade Launcher +1 Krak&Frag Grenade Deadspace Earpiece 2 Grenade Launchers for Squad Cerebral Implant Cranial Armor Rolex
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Nov 26, 2013 20:26
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They should all have fearless, then you can throw them into insane combat situations that they refuse to run from, while the few who managed to pass their WP test try desperately to convince their friends that they really need to be running now.
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Nov 26, 2013 20:35
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JerryLee posted:If I ever get to play another DH game, I'm making a sanctioned psyker and slipping in thinly-disguised Shylock lines wherever I can. Hath not a psyker eyes?
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Nov 26, 2013 20:53
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Hath not a psyker eyes? Not all of them, no. (Sanctioning can result in you starting the game with common quality optical implants because your eyes got blasted out of your skull by the Emperor's light)
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Nov 26, 2013 21:01
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All Astropaths are blind, and many of them have additional nerve damage from the Soul Binding.
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Nov 26, 2013 21:06
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hath not a goon even the slightest idea when a joke has been made
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Nov 26, 2013 21:07
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Not until someone upgrades my Common Quality Cerebral Implants, no.
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Nov 26, 2013 21:08
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Prick us, do we not bl-oh hey, Biomancy!
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Nov 26, 2013 21:10
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Hath not a psyker eyes? Yes, but too many dimensions.
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Nov 26, 2013 21:12
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In exciting news, FFG just released the second version of the second edition of the Dark Heresy beta. In less exciting news, it's basically Only War with a new chargen system.
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Nov 27, 2013 03:11
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That's really sad. I mean, I love Only War, it's a good game, but we didn't really need OW2:Without An Army. I was excited that they were going to roll this in a new direction, but I guess all the people freaking out about change got their way. Sucks.
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Nov 27, 2013 03:26
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I'm still reading the PDF, but it doesn't look like this is much different from OW. Shame. I wanted something new and different, not an iteration of the same thing I've been playing for years. On the plus side, maybe MOnion's DH2 game will be resurrected. I might try to get my group to switch over to FATE. Nova Praxis has a pretty cool scifi setting, and a PDF designed for tablets to boot.
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Nov 27, 2013 03:41
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I don't know. The new system had some "ooh shiny!" appeal, but it didn't really seem to offer a dramatic improvement over previous iterations in its core systems. It also seemed like it had some fairly serious issues with mechanics, game balance, and scaling that were going to be difficult to solve (especially if the system was carried forward to new versions of the other game lines). I just didn't see any part of the new beta rules that was remotely worth giving up backwards compatibility and the lessons learned from the 5 previous iterations of the same system- it wasn't correcting a series of commonly identified system flaws and it was introducing a new system with a lot of uncorrected flaws of its own. Given the age and rockiness of the original Dark Heresy (a game my group plays IRL) I'd much rather spend my money on a new version that I can feel reasonably confident will have solid mechanics than a buggy new release that aims for slightly better genre emulation or whatever.
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Nov 27, 2013 03:54
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Do any of you guys have a copy or a link to that Children of Isha deathwatch eldar PDF? I used it a few months ago but didn't save it and the dude has taken down his website now edit: sweet, found it https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=5B31EF2B8F7F263A!1697&app=WordPdf&wdo=2 Karandras fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 06:44
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Doodmons posted:I was talking to someone about 40k once and he was completely incredulous that the mutant and alien hating Imperium regularly used troops as heavily mutated as Ogryns and Ratlings and were okay having them around until I pointed out that if any Puritanical Inquisitor questioned the faith of an Ogryn it would be the Inquisitor who would end up looking like a heretic by comparison. Ogryns love them some Emprah. There's genetic mutations, which are generally reviled, but not an automatic cleansing. Then there's chaos mutations, which are. Chaos mutations aren't stable genomes, and often happen over the course of someone's life, unlike genetic mutations. They can also do nasty poo poo like turning you into a gibbering mass of mutations once you accumulate enough if you're
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Nov 27, 2013 07:44
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Does anyone use shields much in OW? And are there any single-handed Ogryn-proof weapons?
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Nov 27, 2013 14:26
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Rockopolis posted:Does anyone use shields much in OW? 1. Only time I've seen much shield use is DW because of storm shields. I've seen it once in a while; hell I'm using one in Dyne's beta legion, but only because that was my daemon weapon that I was given. 2. In the ranged category, the only one handed ogryn-proof weapon is the frag grenade. In Melee weapons, Both "improvised" and Truncheons are ogryn-proof. This said: 1. Under the variant equipment section in HotE, one of the ranged weapon patterns is brutal construction, which gives the weapon Ogryn proof. So in theory, you can make ANY ranged weapon (including a pistol, RAW) ogryn-proof. Though also RAW you're supposed to roll all the positives an negatives, not pick and choose, but gently caress it, you're the GM. (I really find it fun rolling up the variant patterns and then shoehorning some sort of explanation onto the pattern. I could do that poo poo all day.) Werix fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 14:38
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Ashcans posted:That's really sad. I mean, I love Only War, it's a good game, but we didn't really need OW2:Without An Army. I was excited that they were going to roll this in a new direction, but I guess all the people freaking out about change got their way. Sucks. Yeah. I've pretty much lost all desire to continue my Dark Heresy game, now.
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Nov 27, 2013 17:06
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They might as well write a final core rulebook and just publish character and setting books if they're not going to change any more fundamental mechanics.
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Nov 27, 2013 17:11
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Kenlon posted:Yeah. I've pretty much lost all desire to continue my Dark Heresy game, now. Same here. What they were trying to do might not have worked, but I would've appreciated them actually trying. I guess I'll just go back to playing other systems for awhile and see if they change their minds again, though I doubt it.
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Nov 27, 2013 17:15
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SpiritOfLenin posted:Ogryns and Ratlings aren't mutants - they are abhumans, humans who after centuries of living on some planet adapted to its environment in a certain way and are a stable subspecies of humanity essentially. Catachans are probably borderline abhumans, as are a lot of deathworlders. The whole "baby ogryn" thing isn't just a nickname, they're probably halfway down the path that creates ogryns. Its always hillarious(ly dangerous) to talk about it IC. Edit: and don't forget the brand new catgirl abhumans. Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 22:22
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Wait, that's actually a thing? I thought it was a joke. It...really makes me want to play Jorune, of all things. Who is Carlos McConnell?
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Nov 27, 2013 22:51
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Probably the dude who discovered it. Or rediscovered it. Bet the dude got some mad pussy. ed: no seriously, there was a catgirl sniper in 16t before you showed up. Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 22:56
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Wait, what? How...do I want to know? Just a reskinned marksman?
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Nov 27, 2013 23:24
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yeah, weapon spec>sharp shooter. Since those are usually high agility/awareness/stealth anyways i figured I didn't need to create a new specialty. If i did mods i'd probably do +5 agility +5 perception, -10 WP, dark sight and unnatural agility+2 trait. So when something scary comes up, its literally trying to herd cats. That being said, minor one off abhumans that are standard height, weight, etc, should probably just be modeled with standard guard trooper specialties. Weaponspec>scout/brawler/sharpshooter works perfectly in theme. "NYAAMIREZ, TAKE OUT THAT BUNKER WITH YOUR SUGOI" Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 23:48
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I wish they wouldn't just release "Only War styled Dark Heresy". At this point my gaming group has played so much 40k rpg that every single player knows how to min max a character without even trying. It's like in d20 DnD - everyone's so aware of the optimal builds (or at the very least which skills and traits are better than others) that a lot of the experimentation is gone. I was looking forward to a radically different rule set. Though hopefully doing "more of the same" means they can release the game soon.
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Nov 28, 2013 04:55
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To be fair, DH 1.0 was very very much representative of the era of RPGs it came out of. You can clearly see 3.X D&D style class/feat/etc stuff along with the same min/max problems D20 had. FFG has tried for years, with varying success, to undo this but it looks like we might be seeing an (ugh) pathfinder like reboot. I.e. "More of the same, now with a more toxic fanbase!"
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Nov 28, 2013 05:00
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Ronwayne posted:To be fair, DH 1.0 was very very much representative of the era of RPGs it came out of. You can clearly see 3.X D&D style class/feat/etc stuff along with the same min/max problems D20 had. FFG has tried for years, with varying success, to undo this but it looks like we might be seeing an (ugh) pathfinder like reboot. I.e. "More of the same, now with a more toxic fanbase!" Its annoying because I really wasn't a fan of the rules they released, then instead of changing the rules to something fun, they just backpedalled the hosed out of it. Also following the DH2e FGG forums made me realise just how goddamn terrible their fanbase is.
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Nov 28, 2013 05:41
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I'm not going to bother with DH2.0 anymore. I've got tons of the vastly superior WFRP to run, and when I run out of that, I think I'll give the new (relatively) World of Darkness a look.
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Nov 28, 2013 06:00
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Is new WHFRPG good? I've read enough to get how the system works in broad strokes, but does it play well for a more traditional tabletop crowd?
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Nov 28, 2013 07:38
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If they love loving cards everywhere.
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