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The Duck of Death posted:I always figured it was the Benoit stuff. It led to it in part, but the transition happened when WWE formerly flipped from TV-14 to TV-PG.
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Nov 30, 2013 04:57
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Could someone explain to me how much cable loving costs in England? The way it's described it's like buying a new car. Or is sky and the sports package the equivalent of having cable+digital+hbo?
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Nov 30, 2013 05:17
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Cromulent posted:My favorite bit of commentary is from McMahon and Dok Hendrix, from a 1995 episode of Superstars. It was during the angle where Barry Horowitz scored a victory over Skip, and they were having a match a few weeks later. Skip came out first, and then Horowitz actually came down the isle. I'm so happy I found this, it's as funny as it sounds, plus JR screwing with Dok's intro was funny too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M56aYDqILvg
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Nov 30, 2013 05:24
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Halloween Jack posted:Who in the WWE is actually a draw? Cena, Brock, Rock, and who else? And how do we know who's a draw and who's not; just who main evented the biggest PPV buys? Brock was a PPV draw until Summerslam, where he ceased to make a real difference. Bryan/Punk are merch draws. Taker is a draw at Wrestlemania depending on the booking, and Cena is all of the above, despite being hated my a sizeable chunk of the audience. In modern terms, WWE is the draw. Anything else is a joke. (In America.)
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Nov 30, 2013 05:47
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The American Dream posted:Could someone explain to me how much cable loving costs in England? The way it's described it's like buying a new car. Or is sky and the sports package the equivalent of having cable+digital+hbo? A barebones SkyTV sub is £21.50 ($35) a month, with sports added it's £43.50 ($71). It's considered a luxury in part because we get a lot of good free channels with no dish/box required, some subsidised by the annual TV license fee.
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Nov 30, 2013 07:31
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Halloween Jack posted:Who in the WWE is actually a draw? Cena, Brock, Rock, and who else? And how do we know who's a draw and who's not; just who main evented the biggest PPV buys? Knowing who drew is a tricky thing today. It used to be easy, have house shows gone up? Ok, something is working, is it the feud or a guy? Well, once that feud is over, are the house shows still up? They are? Ok, that guy is drawing. Now there's a few factors. Sometimes the title match isn't the big draw, usually it's the Cena match. But sometimes the Cena match isn't the draw (although that's usually easy to see, if he's not put in the main event and it's a multi man match the Cena match isn't the feature attraction. House shows are very much a WWE brand thing, but certain things can increase them. Cena being on them is one, but sometimes there's more. When Rock came back the first two times house shows went up across the board, Raw, Smackdown, house shows, everything was up. The Rock returning to WWE was a big enough deal people were coming out to shows he wasn't on. Some people will sell merchandise but won't move other numbers, look at Ryder. He sold a ton of merchandise but when his "push" began his matches were met with indifference live and were ratings death even before it was obvious he was going to job constantly. So basically, is this guy in the "money match" the feud that is getting the most time on TV and seems to be the real main event whether it is last or not and those shows seem to do better than the average. As for recent draws: Rock is definitely a draw although his power may be waning. His guest host spot on WM drew gangbusters (another example of how it is tough to see who was the real draw of a show just looking at it on paper) the first Cena match did extremely well and the first Punk match was the biggest Rumble in years. The Cena rematch was down, but Mania revenue was still record setting. The Punk rematch wasn't a big success, buys were up but not enough to cover Rock's salary. Brock's power has waned. His Cena match and first HHH match did extremely well, but the third HHH match was down from the Cena match at Extreme Rules the year before. Summerslam completely flopped, so that's two in a row. With the right opponent he is probably still a draw, I imagine an Undertaker match at WM will do well, a Rock match probably would (might not justify their combined salaries though) and if he turns face who knows. Cena is a draw although not across the board on PPV. Some Cena matches will increase business, others will just be flat. He's their only really consistent ratings draw, he brings in a ton of sponsorship and licensing money and well, he's a big deal. His power is waning too though. Punk has the ability to sometimes move numbers. The MitB match with Cena did well, but wasn't the game changer many expected. His Cell match at the Rumble did extremely well, part of it was Ryback's push, part of it was Punk's title reign and part was the fact the Cell guaranteed a guy would lose. His first match with Rock is obviously mostly due to the Rock, but I don't think any non-Cena regular on the WWE roster would do that kind of business with the Rock. That's basically it. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Nov 30, 2013 |
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Nov 30, 2013 09:21
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On a scale from Jumping Jeff Farmer to Hulk Hogan, just how charismatic is Masahiro Chono? I haven't seen much of his work but he always seemed to have a certain aura. On a similar note, how well could he speak English while he was making appearances as part of the NWO in WCW?
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Nov 30, 2013 10:48
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Testekill posted:On a scale from Jumping Jeff Farmer to Hulk Hogan, just how charismatic is Masahiro Chono? I haven't seen much of his work but he always seemed to have a certain aura. On a similar note, how well could he speak English while he was making appearances as part of the NWO in WCW? Pretty close to Hogan. He's been terrible in the ring for ages but is one of the most popular Japanese wrestlers of his generation because he exudes cool.
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Nov 30, 2013 10:53
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Testekill posted:On a scale from Jumping Jeff Farmer to Hulk Hogan, just how charismatic is Masahiro Chono? I haven't seen much of his work but he always seemed to have a certain aura. On a similar note, how well could he speak English while he was making appearances as part of the NWO in WCW? He speaks moderate to good english.
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Nov 30, 2013 11:14
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MassRafTer posted:Pretty close to Hogan. He's been terrible in the ring for ages but is one of the most popular Japanese wrestlers of his generation because he exudes cool. Every time he shows up on a Gaki-no-Tsukai 24 hour batsu game (It's not wrestling for those who don't know about it), he steals the show as well.
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Nov 30, 2013 11:27
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Aurain posted:Every time he shows up on a Gaki-no-Tsukai 24 hour batsu game (It's not wrestling for those who don't know about it), he steals the show as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HBpQ3UySQo [punishments are handed out for corpsing] Perigryn fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Nov 30, 2013 |
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Nov 30, 2013 11:52
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My favourite line was always be "How do you learn to fall off a 20-foot ladder?!  "
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Nov 30, 2013 13:50
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Another I remembered, a bizarre burst of profoundness from Mick Foley on commentary at ONS05, during Sandman's entrance. "They believe, because he believes!"
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Nov 30, 2013 14:03
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At what point did WWE stop letting fans rush the guardrails during entrances? I remember watching Superstars as a kid and watching hundreds of kids run towards the aisle during face entrances - it was cool
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Nov 30, 2013 15:20
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TL posted:I'm so happy I found this, it's as funny as it sounds, plus JR screwing with Dok's intro was funny too: That video brings a thought- was there any real reason behind Barry's mini-push in 95-96? Was it just a thank you for his jobbing work, or was there actually a thought that he would go somewhere?
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Nov 30, 2013 15:46
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Is the name Gorilla Press Slam a type of tribute to Monsoon or totally unrelated?
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Nov 30, 2013 17:43
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Skinty McEdger posted:Batista has developed quite a successful little niche in Hollywood. He was in the last Riddick, and is one of the main characters in Marvels upcomming Guardian's of the Galaxy. He's arguably becoming after Rock the most successful wrestler turned actor. Ah. So are the "Batista was spotted backstage at NXT" (or whatever) rumors/reports false then? Thauros posted:Q: Has anyone tried to order some merch from the NJPW? I'm considering buying something from there but I don't know how much it costs, how long it takes to get here, etc. Thanks for the help. Also, I've watched that SD return video numerous times since it was posted in the "wrestling pops" thread, and yet I never thought of it when I asked the question. God drat I'm dumb. oldpainless posted:Is the name Gorilla Press Slam a type of tribute to Monsoon or totally unrelated? I think Monsoon actually innovated the move, or at least popularized it. Q: Could someone help me put into words why Arn Anderson's spinebuster looks so fantastic? Q: Who does the second-best spinebuster?
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Nov 30, 2013 17:56
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Kwik posted:That video brings a thought- was there any real reason behind Barry's mini-push in 95-96? Was it just a thank you for his jobbing work, or was there actually a thought that he would go somewhere? They were pretty short on depth at the time, so I guess they decided to elevate a decent hand to a midcard underdog spot.
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Nov 30, 2013 18:00
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Nick_326 posted:Q: Could someone help me put into words why Arn Anderson's spinebuster looks so fantastic? I'm on my phone at the moment, but I seem to recall there being a video that talked about AA's spinebuster technique. It has to do with the twist and adding to the momentum with his body weight to drive the opponent into the canvas. As for 2nd best, I have to give it to Ron Simmons. What his modified spinebuster lacked in finesse, it made up for in sheer brutality. The man was trying to make craters out of people. Ghostpilot fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Nov 30, 2013 |
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Nov 30, 2013 18:22
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I have a theory that a good spinebuster is all in the legs. AA and Simmons slam their knees into the ground at the impact. Bad ones like HHH or Rock, they don't.
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Nov 30, 2013 18:30
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VogeGandire posted:I have a theory that a good spinebuster is all in the legs. AA and Simmons slam their knees into the ground at the impact. Bad ones like HHH or Rock, they don't. It's in the turn if you do it AA style. The quicker the rotation, the nastier it looks.
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Nov 30, 2013 18:49
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AA hitting that devestating spinebuster on the Undertaker at X8 is still one of his best ever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyLCK-hoahI I just wish there was a better/longer clip of that. Edit: Just found the entire match.
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Nov 30, 2013 18:51
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Ghostpilot posted:Speaking of AA and Spinebuster chat, here are a few gifs: Yay, I was able to find my old post about the spinebusters with ease thanks to the awful app. Here are some lovely ones against Shawn Michaels.
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Nov 30, 2013 19:25
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Nick_326 posted:Q: Who does the second-best spinebuster? Aksana, obviously.
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Nov 30, 2013 19:36
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MassRafTer posted:Knowing who drew is a tricky thing today. It used to be easy, have house shows gone up? Ok, something is working, is it the feud or a guy? Well, once that feud is over, are the house shows still up? They are? Ok, that guy is drawing. 1. So is it official that Bryan is a vanilla midget who ate 1000 cans and never drew a dime? 2. What does drawing power mean when there are only one or two guys in the company who are protected, pushed consistently, and not subject to stop-start booking? I know we can't give anybody credit for what they theoretically could do if the entire business was different; I'm not going to go on about what I think Punk or Bryan could do in a different WWE any more than I'm going to go on about what Arn Anderson could have done if he hadn't been in Flair's shadow or what Roberts could have done if he'd been healthy. But it's such a huge part of the way WWE does business that it bears consideration. Otherwise we ignore that "Only one guy matters because only one guy draws" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. 3. Is there a site that lists raw numbers for gates and buyrates? 4. How do we know if a guy is a merch mover? Nick_326 posted:Q: Could someone help me put into words why Arn Anderson's spinebuster looks so fantastic?
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Nov 30, 2013 20:19
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One of my favorite random commentary lines that has stuck with me was from a PPV where heel Shane McMahon was fighting someone (possibly Steve Blackman) in a No DQ match. Shane had an alliance with T&A, and they ran out to the ring armed with steel chairs. For no good reason, I laughed my rear end off when JR said "It's Test and Albert! With CHAIRS!"
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Nov 30, 2013 20:26
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Halloween Jack posted:1. So is it official that Bryan is a vanilla midget who ate 1000 cans and never drew a dime? If there's any evidence Bryan moves ratings, buyrates, or attendance even a little, I haven't seen it and it isn't readily apparent. My assessment is that he's probably closer to a negative impact guy than a draw at this point. I am open to the idea that if they hit the right character tweak or story with him he might break through, but the "Authority" storyline wasn't even close and good luck with that in the current WWE booking. Halloween Jack posted:2. What does drawing power mean when there are only one or two guys in the company who are protected, pushed consistently, and not subject to stop-start booking? I mean, typically only a few guys are really protected and pushed hard for any length of time in general in any promotion. And there have been a number of guys, even in modern WWE, who have turned into significant draws even with this type of booking. Off the top of my head, you've got Jeff Hardy, Eddie Guerrero, and Rey Mysterio who all fit very easily into that category (though they've systematically killed off a lot of Rey's drawing ability over the last 6 years or so). The parity booking is a problem even in accidentally creating second tier draws because it does cut off guys from gaining any momentum at all, but it's not an insurmountable problem and the right guy would overcome that.
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Nov 30, 2013 20:36
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Nick_326 posted:Ah. So are the "Batista was spotted backstage at NXT" (or whatever) rumors/reports false then? Nah, he was there to visit friends backstage. I couldn't tell you who exactly but I seem to recall him and Regal were supposed to be pretty tight.
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Nov 30, 2013 20:44
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Skinty McEdger posted:Nah, he was there to visit friends backstage. I couldn't tell you who exactly but I seem to recall him and Regal were supposed to be pretty tight. Pretty sure Big Dave still lives in Tampa, as well. It's not like he had to fly in from LA to make a special appearance.
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Nov 30, 2013 20:49
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jeffersonlives posted:If there's any evidence Bryan moves ratings, buyrates, or attendance even a little, I haven't seen it and it isn't readily apparent. My assessment is that he's probably closer to a negative impact guy than a draw at this point. I am open to the idea that if they hit the right character tweak or story with him he might break through, but the "Authority" storyline wasn't even close and good luck with that in the current WWE I had a group of friends start and stop watching wrestling because of Bryan's push/de-push. If they gave him any length of time on top without looking like an absolute loving chump, he could have been a huge draw. He would consistently make my friends that hated wrestling mark out during his matches. If the WWE put an emphasis on athletic competition, they could get those fans that went to MMA back. Worked for me for the summer, but I haven't watched Raw since NoC now. The Chris Hero release and the Big Show push were the nails in the coffin for me.
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Nov 30, 2013 23:41
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VogeGandire posted:Another I remembered, a bizarre burst of profoundness from Mick Foley on commentary at ONS05, during Sandman's entrance. A moment that's utterly ruined on the DVD because they can't let you hear the ENTIRE crowd singing Enter Sandman.
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Nov 30, 2013 23:47
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Red posted:Question: Outside of One Night Only (where Shawn beats Bulldog for the European title), did any UK-only PPV have any major storyline events or see any title changes? Summerslam '92 had the British Bulldog defeat Bret Hart for the IC title in what was a loving awesome match.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:00
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Paulocaust posted:I had a group of friends start and stop watching wrestling because of Bryan's push/de-push. If they gave him any length of time on top without looking like an absolute loving chump, he could have been a huge draw. He would consistently make my friends that hated wrestling mark out during his matches. If the WWE put an emphasis on athletic competition, they could get those fans that went to MMA back. Worked for me for the summer, but I haven't watched Raw since NoC now. The Chris Hero release and the Big Show push were the nails in the coffin for me. I will never understand why fans on the internet don't count. Who the gently caress isn't on the internet? Monks?
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Dec 1, 2013 00:12
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Things fans say on the internet don't really matter because message board posts don't translate to money, and secondarily because people talking about wrestling on the internet tend to be hardcores that watch/buy/attend the shows no matter what.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:15
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jeffersonlives posted:Things fans say on the internet don't really matter because message board posts don't translate to money, and secondarily because people talking about wrestling on the internet tend to be hardcores that watch/buy/attend the shows no matter what. Hey Trips, how you doin'
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Dec 1, 2013 00:22
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LividLiquid posted:There's a whole self-loathing school of thought that takes you and your friends, and disqualifies you from the discussion because you spoke on the internet. Like, y'know, literally everybody does now. Have you ever heard of something called sample size? People on a message board or a circle of friends are a small sample size. Ratings and buys are a large sample. If your friends started watching WWE but the ratings don't go up, that means other people stopped watching WWE when Bryan got pushed. If someone starts buying PPVs because of Bryan but buys go down, that means more people stopped watching shows during his run than started. I am a huge fan of Bryan. I drove to probably fifty ROH shows to see him wrestle. However, right now based on every business indicator we know about all we can say is "PPV business sucked when he was on top. Ratings dipped slightly. He might be a merchandise mover." When it comes to things outside of business, he gets crowds to chant YES and on top of that is such an incredible wrestler that they also get really into his matches even if they aren't at the start. It's like pointing to how many Ron Paul lawn signs are in your neighborhood as a sign the polls are wrong.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:30
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jeffersonlives posted:Things fans say on the internet don't really matter because message board posts don't translate to money, and secondarily because people talking about wrestling on the internet tend to be hardcores that watch/buy/attend the shows no matter what.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:31
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Paulocaust posted:I had a group of friends start and stop watching wrestling because of Bryan's push/de-push. If they gave him any length of time on top without looking like an absolute loving chump, he could have been a huge draw. He would consistently make my friends that hated wrestling mark out during his matches. If the WWE put an emphasis on athletic competition, they could get those fans that went to MMA back. Worked for me for the summer, but I haven't watched Raw since NoC now. The Chris Hero release and the Big Show push were the nails in the coffin for me. I started watching again right after Wrestlemania and the Bryan push was a big part of it. Hell, my wife watched and got really into it, and now doesn't care because she sees Orton/Cena as boring. She loves Total Divas though.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:31
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Halloween Jack posted:It's a double-edged chair. Either we don't count because we watch no matter what, or we don't count because we drop in and out of fandom based on how much of a wrestling show is actually good wrestling. You count to the extent that your consumer patterns change.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:33
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I have never heard the phrase "double edged chair" bit I hope its a new gimmick introduced at TLC.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:39
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