|
Icewind Dale 2 was 3.5 right? Then that's the one true ruleset as far as I'm concerned. I really loved Icewind dale's, especially 2. Baldur's Gate style game that was designed to be more friendly to a multiplayer experience was just great. I wonder if Beamdog would do Icewind Dale enhanced. I'm not sure what new actual content they would add though since the entirety of their new content with BGEE has been about new npc party members and Icewind dale there were no npc party members.
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 03:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 00:10 |
|
|
Corvinus posted:Kangaxx and the one in WK are extra lichy; you could say they're demiliches. The other liches go down like punks to mid-level spells and don't need that high of an enchantment to hit. They also have worse saves vs. death and die really fast to Azuredge and MoD. Thanks, I KNEW there had to be an actual difference
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 03:46
|
|
LibbyM posted:Icewind Dale 2 was 3.5 right? Then that's the one true ruleset as far as I'm concerned. IWD2 uses a weird 3.0 like system. It's not the same game due to engine limitations, but what they managed to do was certainly impressive.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 04:03
|
|
|
moot the hopple posted:Valygar is the Kivan of Baldur's Gate 2. I use keeper to make him an Archer instead of the downright useless Stalker kit and he becomes so much more useful it makes me wonder what exactly the design plan for him was 
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 04:10
|
|
|
Lobst posted:I picked up Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition recently and I'm generally pretty happy with it, but during my last BG1 playthrough I installed a mod that made the world map look like this, and I can't for the life of me remember what it's called. Does anyone know where to find it, and if so, is it BG:EE-compatible? This reminds me that I never go to the farmlands outside Baldur's Gate. Is there anything of note there?
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 04:26
|
|
|
Excelzior posted:I use keeper to make him an Archer instead of the downright useless Stalker kit and he becomes so much more useful it makes me wonder what exactly the design plan for him was He stabs bitches in the rear end pretty good the way he comes. His problem's just that the devs forgot he existed or something, so he has 0 interaction with quests/other party members ever. ^^ There's one quest to kill some zombies that take over the farmland, but nothing good really
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 04:57
|
|
|
MrTheDevious posted:He stabs bitches in the rear end pretty good the way he comes. His problem's just that the devs forgot he existed or something, so he has 0 interaction with quests/other party members ever. 17 STR, and a lower backstab multiplier from his Stalker kit than any other thief in the game. You're literally better off backstabbing with Jan, since he at least can buff himself and invis. Plus his racial enemy is GOLEMS, whom you practically never get to (or WANT to) backstab. I still don't buy it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 05:03
|
|
|
Draile posted:This reminds me that I never go to the farmlands outside Baldur's Gate. Is there anything of note there? Excelzior posted:I use keeper to make him an Archer instead of the downright useless Stalker kit and he becomes so much more useful it makes me wonder what exactly the design plan for him was The problem with stalker is really that it's not one of the fighter/thief power builds. It's a little better in SoA (due to level progression) but completely inferior in ToB due to HLAs, and if you did the thief->fighter dual then you also get grandmastery. You can also take Valygar's armor and wear it on a F/T with the UAI HLA. The upside here is that if you do want something that plays like a Fighter/Thief in combat, and you don't want it to be your main character, then Valygar is the closest it gets to that before you start modding characters. [e]Honestly Valygar gets a bad rap but he is perfectly playable (doesn't his weapon inflict poison/bleeds too? This should ignore stoneskin IIRC so yeah). For most hated NPC in the game I reserve that for Cernd, the Shapeshifter. Rascyc fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Dec 1, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 05:05
|
|
|
2 quick questions: can Hexxat's class be changed with EEKeeper? Maybe to a thief/mage or thief/fighter? And, if I go evil in hell as a Druid, I assume I keep druiding even if I'm Neutral Evil?
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 05:38
|
|
|
Rascyc posted:[e]Honestly Valygar gets a bad rap but he is perfectly playable (doesn't his weapon inflict poison/bleeds too? This should ignore stoneskin IIRC so yeah). For most hated NPC in the game I reserve that for Cernd, the Shapeshifter. Back in the say before everything was documented as solved as it is now, on the old Black Isle message boards Valygar users were present but regarded as weird. By pure instinct everyone avoided Cernd. I think someone asked about his NPC quest once and noone was really sure about it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 05:57
|
|
|
Stumiester posted:And, if I go evil in hell as a Druid, I assume I keep druiding even if I'm Neutral Evil?
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 06:21
|
|
|
Rangers and paladins will fall and lose their powers. No consequences for anyone else beyond the alignment shift.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 06:29
|
|
|
The thing with AD&D - or at least with Badlur's Gates rules - is that, while obviously extremely obtuse, it's still mostly very newbie friendly. If I'm making a Fighter I'm told upfront what each stat does, why I want them, and that's it. The end. I make a fighter, the game says "Yo get high strength, dex, and con," and I do that. It's hard to gently caress that up. Likewise for thief - you want high dexterity. Really the biggest difference is that Baldur's Gate doesn't demand you memorize everything in the game. The only thing that would really trip you up is the descending numbers. 3e on the other hand not only demands you memorize the game, it demands you do so before you've even played it. I mean, check it: here's what you need to know to make a character in Baldur's Gate. 1) What attributes do 2) What races can't take what classes 3) What races have as modifiers That's it. That's pretty much it. You need to know that strength is attack and damage, dexterity is ranged attack, AC, and thief skills, constitution is health (fighters get more), wisdom is cleric magic stat, intelligence is wizard magic stat, and nobody cares about charisma. Also, elves can't be paladins, halflings are bad at being fighter. On the other hand, here's what's needed to make a character in, say, Neverwinter Nights 2. 1) What attributes do. 2) what races have as modifiers 3) What feats are good, because 4) What feats have as pre-requisites 5) What PrCs are good, because 6) What PrCs have a pre-requisites 7) What you want as your skills As a new player stepping into 3e you are hit with a barrage of choices that are functionally meaningless to you. Hey, uh, +3 to survival? Sure, that sounds good, I'll take that as a feat. Whoops, your feat is loving awful and does nothing because the game made you choose it without actually telling you what any of that meant in context. Let's make the most simplistic character we can in both. A fighter. A simple human fighter. Baldur's Gate: Human. Fighter. High strength, dex, and con. Mastery in big swords. NWN2: Human, Fighter. High strength, dex, and con. Ok, intimidate, craft: weapon, and parry. Feats...let's go Weapon Focus: Greatsword and Skill Focus: Craft: weapon. Wait, that second feat doesn't do anything, let' go Improved Initiative. Wait, I want to go into the WEAPON MASTER PrC, so let's go with Combat Expertise. Wait, I need 13 intelligence for that, so let's go all the way back to the beginning and take some out of Constitution, since dexterity will make sure I jut don't get hit as much. Ok, a new skill, let's go with Taunt. Now my feats are Weapon Focus: Greatsword and Combat Expertise. Wait, my armor doesn't actually let me apply all this dexterity to my armor. Let me go back again. And start from scratch. Again. Do you see what the big difference is? It's not that 3e had more choices. Or rather, it's not just that it had more choices. First, it's that a lot of these choices are utter garbage, but that's never explained to the player. I mean, Skill Focus: Craft Weapon? Improved Initiative? The entire Parry skill? Dex is AC, right? Well, not in these circumtances! And second, you have to make all these decisions about your character and their future before the game even starts. What if Player A wanted to go WEAPON MASTER - because it sounds way cool - but didn't have 13 Intelligence? The needed feats would never even appear. She'd never even know what Combat Expertise was. And why would she grab intelligence? She isn't a wizard! poo poo is as unintuitive as can be. And this doesn't even touch the monstrosity of multiclassing and how hilariously easy it is to completely gently caress up your character by taking what seems to be a common sense path. Boy my wizard/thief in AD&D was cool; I'll alternate levels of Wizard and Rogue to do the same here! I'm really glad Baldur's Gate was my introduction to D&D, because god knows if I had started with 3e, I likely would've ended shortly after.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 06:56
|
|
|
Anyone recall which game it was wherein you could present a minor boss with your collection of corpses and the monster's just freaked out and leaves? Like a dead boy, a dead cat, a dead something else. I could've sworn it was Baldur's Gate 2 but alas, it was not.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 07:03
|
|
|
Icewind Dale 2, Yquog in the Cleric's Tower in the Severed Hand.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 07:13
|
|
|
Accretionist posted:Anyone recall which game it was wherein you could present a minor boss with your collection of corpses and the monster's just freaked out and leaves? Like a dead boy, a dead cat, a dead something else. I could've sworn it was Baldur's Gate 2 but alas, it was not. quote:PC: Wait! Isn't there a peaceful way to settle this? Perhaps I have something you'd like - say this *dead cat/man/woman,* for instance....
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 07:33
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:I'm really glad Baldur's Gate was my introduction to D&D, because god knows if I had started with 3e, I likely would've ended shortly after.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 07:42
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:I'm really glad Baldur's Gate was my introduction to D&D, because god knows if I had started with 3e, I likely would've ended shortly after. I generally feel the same way, despite playing and loving most all 3.X based games too. The thing is, I just started my god knows how many replay of the BG-Saga, but I wouldn't want to touch NWN2 with a 10ft pole despite loving it and it's expansion when going through them the first time. Just the though of having to figure out what I kind of a build I wanna play is off-putting enough that I'd rather not bother. Even if you're perfectly familiar with the system, you still have some many decisions to make on a character that I just feels like a chore to me. The 2nd edition based games have very simple choices per character, but enough just enough variety with the party member, proficiency and gear choices that it doesn't feel too stale even after years. That's why I keep coming back to those.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 09:31
|
|
|
Factor_VIII posted:I think you're exaggerating things. NWN2 actually has recommended options that you can take for your character. Delving into the details is optional. Someone who wants to take a prestige class just has to look at what the requirements are when creating a characters. If they fail to do so, they could just keep leveling the core class. Someone starting out can make a basic is somewhat suboptimal character and delve deeper (perhaps looking at character builds online) in later playthroughs. The gap between recommended builds and optimized builds is pretty ridiculous in NWN2. If you balance for the recommended build, the game is going to be terribly easy for the optimized build, and balancing for both is practically impossible. This is a bad thing, as the players who are likely to go for the recommended build are the new players, while optimizers are at least experienced with the system, if not the game - they're the ones who are looking for a challenge, but they beat the game in character generation. Meanwhile, the new player is struggling with his suboptimal build, trying to learn the basic game mechanisms. I like building characters in 3e games, but they're not fun to play. verybad fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Dec 1, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 10:31
|
|
|
Didn't NWN2 have difficulty options? How to balance it is pretty straightforward if it did. Easier difficulties balanced around recommended builds, Harder difficulties balanced around optimized builds. I'm not necessarily saying they succeeded in that, I don't remember the game all that well. But nothing about the ruleset hinders proper balance of difficulty.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 11:22
|
|
|
LibbyM posted:Didn't NWN2 have difficulty options? How to balance it is pretty straightforward if it did. Easier difficulties balanced around recommended builds, Harder difficulties balanced around optimized builds. Because the poo poo is entirely clouded. None of it is transparent. Is your character good or bad? In Baldur's Gate that's pretty easy: "I am FIGHTER, my stats are low, I have no items. My character is weak." But knowing how strong your character is - or god forbid is going to be if you decided to make, say, a rogue - is really difficult to figure out on your own.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 11:31
|
|
|
Who would go well with this party for maximum banter? So far I got Keldorn and Anomen whom I have never had in the party for long, Jan because his just awesome and talks a lot, Neera for some EE flavour, and PC blade but I could change that if needed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 11:37
|
|
|
Has there been any word on a release date for the iPad version of BG2EE? I just started playing BG1EE on my Air, it'll probably take me a while to beat but hopefully BG2EE will be out by then.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 12:07
|
|
|
The biggest problem with NWN2 in my memory wasn't anything to do with trying to plan my character, but instead the fact that I'd made a pretty cool assassin type I liked and then spent half the game against immune to back stab enemies. That's overridden any other thoughts I could have of that game. Edit: Actually and the time my chaotic good warlock became too lawful and I couldn't level anymore. Man that game. LibbyM fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Dec 1, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 12:12
|
|
|
zedprime posted:Back in the say before everything was documented as solved as it is now, on the old Black Isle message boards Valygar users were present but regarded as weird. I think the problem a lot of people might've run into with Cernd is that BG2 is absolutely choked with Divine casters. You have Jaheira, obviously, and then Anomen, Aerie, Viconia, sorta Keldorn, sorta Valygar, and sorta Minsc. Plus probably someone I forgot. That's like half the NPCs right there, and most of them are Good (Viconia is barely evil and can change, anyway), which is convenient if you're not being a pantomime dickhead. With the exception of Aerie, none of these characters is especially horrible to have around in your party just saying stuff and knocking about the place. I don't really like Minsc or Anomen, but the rest of them are all Just Some People. Cernd comes out of that badly because his kit is weird and his Dex is low, but as you get further into BG2 when people're pretty likely to hit whatever your AC is, his Wis 18 casting is more appealing. This is in contrast to Arcane casters, where you have Aerie (grating), Edwin (locks you out of Minsc, Keldorn and Valygar, because they'll all fight to the death with him), Haer'dalis (is a Bard), Imoen (but not for ages), Jan (eh...), Nalia (a poor man's Imoen), and very vaguely Valygar.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 17:24
|
|
|
How is his 18 wisdom more appealing, especially later? All it does is give him an extra level 3 and level 4 slot over Anomen's 16 wisdom. Nice in BG1 and early BG2 but inconsequential late SoA/ToB when you have 9 of each.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 17:56
|
|
|
Can we stop the loving edition arguments? The BG series and NWN2 are different games that use different systems. If you want to chat about NWN2's system, I'm sure there's a thread for that series hanging around somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 18:52
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:The thing with AD&D - or at least with Badlur's Gates rules - is that, while obviously extremely obtuse, it's still mostly very newbie friendly. If I'm making a Fighter I'm told upfront what each stat does, why I want them, and that's it. The end. I make a fighter, the game says "Yo get high strength, dex, and con," and I do that. It's hard to gently caress that up. Likewise for thief - you want high dexterity. The spell system falls into a similar bin. In the old BG2 thread, a few times a year we'd have a big discussion with a newcomer who would say all the spells were useless and just stick to fireball and magic missiles. And then subsequently ask what the hell do they do when they lose control of their party mates to the few ways that this can happen. The combat log is really quite terrible. If I could just have it list what spells have been cast and only that, I'd be thrilled. It's just so spammy and god forbid you ever want to look at your combat rolls in a sane fashion.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 19:09
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:Can we stop the loving edition arguments? The BG series and NWN2 are different games that use different systems. If you want to chat about NWN2's system, I'm sure there's a thread for that series hanging around somewhere. No one is really arguing and the only one who seems upset in any way is you soooo...maybe you should go outside and count to ten or something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 19:10
|
|
|
feraltennisprodigy posted:Has there been any word on a release date for the iPad version of BG2EE? I just started playing BG1EE on my Air, it'll probably take me a while to beat but hopefully BG2EE will be out by then. Nope. The 1.2 patch for BGEE isn't even out for iPad yet and that comes first.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 19:29
|
|
|
verybad posted:This is a bad thing, as the players who are likely to go for the recommended build are the new players, while optimizers are at least experienced with the system, if not the game - they're the ones who are looking for a challenge, but they beat the game in character generation. ProfessorCirno posted:Because the poo poo is entirely clouded. None of it is transparent. Is your character good or bad? In Baldur's Gate that's pretty easy: "I am FIGHTER, my stats are low, I have no items. My character is weak." But knowing how strong your character is - or god forbid is going to be if you decided to make, say, a rogue - is really difficult to figure out on your own.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 19:32
|
|
|
Hate it or not, I can't wait for a 4E Infinity game...
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 19:58
|
|
|
By the way, did BG1:EE add any Ioun Stones to the main campaign? I seem to recall seeing one, but it might have been in the Black Pits as opposed to BG1 itself.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 20:04
|
|
|
e; Deep Purple Ioun Stone, which gives 60' infravision. Apparently this is just something I installed without paying attention as part of the tweakpack. 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Dec 1, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 20:12
|
|
|
Even if it has a lousy effect like infravision or no effect at all (the mask in the Firkraag dungeon), equip it anyway. Everything in the head slot protects against critical hits. Unless of course the EE fixed that, but I don't think so.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 20:16
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:There's a purple (I think?) ioun stone sold by the High Hedge dude, which is relatively worthless (gives you infravision or something similarly pointless). I've yet to find any others. Does it still prevent criticals? Would definitely be worth it to stop my mages from getting chunked all the time 
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 20:17
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:There's a purple (I think?) ioun stone sold by the High Hedge dude, which is relatively worthless (gives you infravision or something similarly pointless). I've yet to find any others.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 20:21
|
|
|
Factor_VIII posted:I went and had a look and it wasn't for sale there. Googling for Deep Purple Ioun Stone reveals that it's an item added by the Exotic Items Pack. Huh, fair enough - sorry, then! I hadn't realised I'd actually installed that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 20:23
|
|
|
First time through BG2 so far, maybe 10-15 hours in: Keldorn owns with his dispel magic but then slaughtered Viconia god drat it. Jahiera was being such a massive rear end in a top hat but then got blasted by the red dragon so I can't resurrect her. Good riddance. Shut the gently caress up Aerie about your god damned life. I was scared she was going to bail after I told her to stop whining and then I'd be out of a cleric. I wish Blades (since I'm playing as one) could disable traps so then I could get rid of Jan and pick up another strong fighter dude. I think I should have made a fighter/thief or fighter/mage/thief so I could have my main guy disarm traps and scout. I want to pick up Dorn, but I get the feeling he'll fight with Keldorn. Plus, Aerie was bitching as soon as I even talked to Dorn. Was wandering around in a tavern and ran into a lich behind a hidden door. Keldorn with Carsomyr absolutely wrecked him, which is why I'm scared to get rid of him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 20:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 00:10 |
|
|
I will never understand all thw Jaheira hate. I loved the snark. I kind od thought it was nice to have a party member that isn't in awe of you because it wasn't all that long ago you were a dumbass kid on the run.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 20:51
|
|