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Grand Prize Winner posted:One thing that confuses me about the whole standing army thing is I've been to a couple bases and there are still a lot of chairs. Technically they only need to stand while declaring attacks. 
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Dec 1, 2013 08:46
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Pro lifehack: Wage indefinite warfare with this One Weird Trick discovered by a dad! Heads of state HATE HIM!!
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Dec 1, 2013 19:05
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Imperial Germany. Because they were the only ones who needed such a thing in 1916. It was a guy with a special bullet for his Mauser. He was replaced by a guy with a big rifle. And you didn't even post pictures? 
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Dec 1, 2013 19:48
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Ensign Expendable posted:And you didn't even post pictures? What's the recoil on that thing?
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Dec 1, 2013 20:48
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Ensign Expendable posted:And you didn't even post pictures? Did it work? Mark IV says it has 12 mm armor max. I assume so?
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Dec 1, 2013 20:54
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Anti-tank rifles were effectively used even during WWII, so I assume it worked. Well, for certain definitions of 'worked'.
Fangz fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Dec 1, 2013 |
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Dec 1, 2013 21:16
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Saint Celestine posted:Did it work? Mark IV says it has 12 mm armor max. I assume so? Presumably, but I haven't read anything about its performance. Shimrra Jamaane posted:What's the recoil on that thing? With no muzzle brake, it must be a bitch. I shot a PTRD once, and that was bad enough with a muzzle brake and a shoulder pad.
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Dec 1, 2013 21:30
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I read in unreliable sources that those things could break the operator's shoulder if they weren't held just right by a very strong man. edit: referring to the German WWI AT gun, not the PTRD.
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Dec 1, 2013 22:07
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Grand Prize Winner posted:I read in unreliable sources that those things could break the operator's shoulder if they weren't held just right by a very strong man. If I'm remembering my physics right (and that's a big if  ), that gun would generate about ~10.000 Newtons of force. That's a fair bit more than a very strong kick delivered by a human, applied to the user over a very short time period, so I could definitely see it dislocating or even breaking a shoulder under certain conditions.Similarly, I've also heard stories about the muzzle-loaded rifle grenades (specifically, the 22mm ones that were apparently used by pretty much every NATO force) doing the same thing, and I guess they'd be in about the same neighbourhood as that Mauser recoil-wise. VVVVV You can get there through distance travelled (i.e. barrel length) though, which I seem to remember would work out to acceleration = (difference in velocity)^2/(2*distance). That's assuming a constant acceleration however, so I'm not sure how close that is. VVVVV Perestroika fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 1, 2013 22:45
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Perestroika posted:If I'm remembering my physics right (and that's a big if You aren't remembering your physics right. F = Mass x Acceleration. No way to calculate the force without knowing how long the acceleration of the bullet took.
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Dec 1, 2013 22:54
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Fangz posted:You aren't remembering your physics right. F = Mass x Acceleration. No way to calculate the force without knowing how long the acceleration of the bullet took. 810 grn bullet, at 3000 fps out of a 35lb gun.
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Dec 1, 2013 23:17
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Here is the part in the thread where historians try to do math.
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Dec 2, 2013 00:47
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a travelling HEGEL posted:Here is the part in the thread where historians try to do math. In Imperial units no less.
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Dec 2, 2013 01:05
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Alchenar posted:In Imperial units no less. Hey now. Watch yourself. I have no idea what the metric system means, and despite my current place of residence, don't intend to start now.
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Dec 2, 2013 01:08
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I do all kinds of super advanced math in my field! Moving averages for instance, or graphs with two (!) Y-axes. I think I even got to do a regression analysis in excel once, now that's paper. If only I had taken that GIS class instead of quitting the spatial sciences minor a bit too soon, I'd have put the whole of Cold War Europe in some kind of useless database. a travelling HEGEL posted:Hey now. Watch yourself. I have no idea what the metric system means, and despite my current place of residence, don't intend to start now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkn-5WA0LU0&t=12s
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Dec 2, 2013 01:11
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I am a Statistics PhD... 
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Dec 2, 2013 01:16
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Koesj posted:I do all kinds of super advanced math in my field! Moving averages for instance, or graphs with two (!) Y-axes.  You got good taste.This is the whitest single thing you will ever hear me say, but I think about rap music a lot in my work, because they seem to have the same attitude toward life as the people I study. They ask me what I do and who I do it for...
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Dec 2, 2013 01:22
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Fangz posted:I am a Statistics PhD... So you are able make a graph of something and correlate it to an unrelated variable with p<0.001, all without having a clue about what is going on  a travelling HEGEL posted:Hey now. Watch yourself. I have no idea what the metric system means, and despite my current place of residence, don't intend to start now. Suffer not this heathen to live
suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 02:24
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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All this maths talk is extremely triggering for me. I picked this discipline exactly to get away from this poo poo!
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Dec 2, 2013 03:53
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a travelling HEGEL posted:Here is the part in the thread where historians try to do math. Who was that dude that was doing some regiment organization and ended up counting 29=30?
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Dec 2, 2013 04:00
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a travelling HEGEL posted:Hey now. Watch yourself. I have no idea what the metric system means, and despite my current place of residence, don't intend to start now. Cuius regio, eius mensurae.
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Dec 2, 2013 06:08
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IIRC the mkIV had pretty piss-poor armour quality anyway, so it would suffer from spalling when hit by even heavy machine gun rounds. Chunks of armour would fly off the inside of the plating because of the impact force being transmitted and hit the crew. Along with the rivets holding everything together bursting. As for WW2, the AT rifles would certainly have been effective against early, lightly armored designs like the panzer II, the rear areas of the PIII and the panoply of hilarious british tanks. That is by no means an exhaustive list but you get the idea. Not to mention armored cars, half-tracks and the like.
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Dec 2, 2013 06:35
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Everything up to a Tiger was vulnerable to a PTRD from the side, the Tiger needed a little more oomph. Sadly the tests don't include Panthers, but 17% of Panthers inspected at Kursk fell to a 14.5 mm bullet to the side. Edit: German one to compare
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Dec 2, 2013 06:40
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I wonder at the accuracy of these figures, I remember reading that the soviet method of testing armour effectiveness was...less than scientific. They would repeatedly shoot the same tank using multiple munitions, which would weaken the armour and skew the results. Also 'destroyed' could just mean disabled and ditched by the crew, or ditched and not recovered by enemy forces in time, or ditched then destroyed by heavier weapons.
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Dec 2, 2013 06:56
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Slavvy posted:I wonder at the accuracy of these figures, I remember reading that the soviet method of testing armour effectiveness was...less than scientific. They would repeatedly shoot the same tank using multiple munitions, which would weaken the armour and skew the results. Also 'destroyed' could just mean disabled and ditched by the crew, or ditched and not recovered by enemy forces in time, or ditched then destroyed by heavier weapons.
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Dec 2, 2013 07:09
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I did a little back of the envelope math and got around 95 ft/lbs of recoil force. But I am also bad at physics. Using this formula (one of the few times being a shooter comes in handy with math )code:tldr: firing that thing is gonna hurt like a motherfucker regardless. Now, for actual milhist content: I have a little miscellaneous question: when did bagpipes (specifically highland pipes) start being used by the British Army? Were they used to signal retreats, attacks, etc? edit: Should note that I know there is a song I used to play simply called 'Retreat' but I have no idea of the history behind it. Cumshot in the Dark fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 07:37
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Arquinsiel posted:Conversely, the two Panzer I that happened to be there made it through fine. That's so cute!  I can imagine the two piddly little things running about while a war goes on all around them.
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Dec 2, 2013 07:57
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They were hiding in a barn eating toast.
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Dec 2, 2013 08:31
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Cumshot in the Dark posted:
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Dec 2, 2013 09:24
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Does anybody remember that video from the old thread of I think a red army propaganda video and the light tanks were running around in it, breaking through walls and vaulting trenches and poo poo like that in a way that the poster said "was like world of tanks"?
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Dec 2, 2013 09:33
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Who was that dude that was doing some regiment organization and ended up counting 29=30? Wow, so math. Such moving fortress. Science levels=100 HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 12:51
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Slavvy posted:I wonder at the accuracy of these figures, I remember reading that the soviet method of testing armour effectiveness was...less than scientific. They would repeatedly shoot the same tank using multiple munitions, which would weaken the armour and skew the results. Also 'destroyed' could just mean disabled and ditched by the crew, or ditched and not recovered by enemy forces in time, or ditched then destroyed by heavier weapons. Different parts of the tank. If you penetrate the side, the front shouldn't be compromised. The tests I read do point out cases where the armour was weakened, and the test is later repeated on a fresh catch. Fudging penetration figures and lying to your own army is a good way to get shot for treason.
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Dec 2, 2013 15:24
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Ensign Expendable posted:Fudging penetration figures and lying to your own army is a good way to get shot for treason. To be fair this is Stalin we're talking about. Saying that the fascist tank cannot be penetrated by our great and righteously patriotic antitank rifle is just as likely to get you shot.
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Dec 2, 2013 15:54
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Slavvy posted:I wonder at the accuracy of these figures, I remember reading that the soviet method of testing armour effectiveness was...less than scientific. They would repeatedly shoot the same tank using multiple munitions, which would weaken the armour and skew the results. Also 'destroyed' could just mean disabled and ditched by the crew, or ditched and not recovered by enemy forces in time, or ditched then destroyed by heavier weapons. To be fair, captured German tank supplies for testing are probably pretty limited and I'm going to guess fabricating armored plates of the same quality and composition of German ones just for testing is quite impractical as well in the Soviet wartime economy.
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Dec 2, 2013 16:00
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INTJ Mastermind posted:To be fair this is Stalin we're talking about. Saying that the fascist tank cannot be penetrated by our great and righteously patriotic antitank rifle is just as likely to get you shot. The tests I've read have as many negatives as they do positives, with a bonus by the geniuses at Gorohovets that states "we shot at it six times, missed all six, and broke the gun on our seventh try, oops". No one was shot for that either. The USSR didn't have commissars prowling the halls and executing people for littering and not wiping their feet.
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Dec 2, 2013 16:32
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Outside Dawg posted:Best guess is the late 1700's, "Retreat" is akin to "Taps" in the US Military, in the context of signaling the end of the day. Taps is the signal for lights out, Retreat is still played on US bases at the end of the duty day. The specific time is up to the installation commander, but it's usually 4:30 or 5pm. My last base changed it to 5 because it was completely loving up traffic flow as everyone raced to go home (if driving, you're supposed to stop during Reveille and Retreat).
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Dec 2, 2013 17:40
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Godholio posted:Taps is the signal for lights out, Retreat is still played on US bases at the end of the duty day. The specific time is up to the installation commander, but it's usually 4:30 or 5pm. My last base changed it to 5 because it was completely loving up traffic flow as everyone raced to go home (if driving, you're supposed to stop during Reveille and Retreat). On Navy bases it's at sunset goddamnit. Also nobody goes home at 4:30.
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Dec 2, 2013 18:00
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Rent-A-Cop posted:AirForce.txt That must suck for people at McMurdo.
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Dec 2, 2013 18:06
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Rent-A-Cop posted:AirForce.txt Civilians and contractors usually leave between 3:30 and 4, because what are you gonna do about it? Fire them?  At Hill AFB, they call the 4:00 traffic jam to the gates the Mormon 500.
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Dec 2, 2013 18:57
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Hogge Wild posted:HEGEL, did the 30 Years War's Swedish cavalry really use arquebuses? I've always thought that they had only pistols. I don't have any real sources to base my opinion on, and internet sources are conflicting. Though arquebus would make more sense because it's cheaper than two pistols. a travelling HEGEL posted:Take everything I say here with a grain of salt, because I am not a Swedish specialist; I'm getting this from a mixture of secondary sources and Wikipedia. So if anyone finds something better, they are welcome to The point, though, is the same: they have no money and, supplies-wise, are not very good. Edit: This may be one of the Osprey books that suck; here they are repeating the old Hakkapeliitta legend. So maybe I was right to begin with. Edit 2: Every day I realise how little I know and how much I still have to learn. 
HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 19:19
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