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Fat Lou posted:1. When I made my sourdough starter it never quite seemed to bubble as much as a number of pictures that I have seen online. Should I worry about this too much? First of all, that looks a lot better than my first loaf - it was seriously a brick. Congratulations on breading a bread! Now, on to your questions. 1. Don't worry about it too much - some starters are ferocious and others are docile. That said, it probably contributed to the crumb density. 2. Yeah, the longer your sourdough goes (and the higher proportion of starter you use in it) the more sour the loaf will be. It'll get better with time, I promise. 3. Steaming the oven definitely helps, and for a medium hydration loaf I usually cook at 400. Lots and lots of steam is what you're aiming for - I get all the cast iron I own preheated, then pour a quart of boiling water onto it. This is because I don't own a hand sprayer. If you do, or if you can get to a dollar store, get one. A higher hydration will also help with that porous texture you're looking for - I would aim for 70% as being easy to work with but decently moist. You should also probably knead longer initially, to help develop that gluten and wonderful air matrices. What flour are you working with? AP is fine for the starter, but I'd use bread flour for the loaf. Finally, it looks like your dough is a bit underproofed (when the bottom springs down it's generally underproofing). Do you know of the poke test? You poke the dough with a lightly floured finger to a depth of about half an inch/1.5cm. If it closes up quickly, it needs to rise longer. If it collapses and feels really airy/empty, it's overproofed.
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Nov 24, 2013 07:47
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:You should also probably knead longer initially, to help develop that gluten and wonderful air matrices. What flour are you working with? AP is fine for the starter, but I'd use bread flour for the loaf. First off, thank you for all the help thus far. The flour I used is just AP. I am planning on grabbing some proper flour in a couple days. I did the poke test, and it felt right, but next time I will give it a longer time and see how it changes. To be frank, I most likely did not kneed it long enough or proof the dough long enough. I got excited.
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Nov 24, 2013 08:06
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It's super easy to not knead long enough. I set a timer for 10-15 minutes depending on the dough (wetter doughs get longer times) and knead constantly. I have a two-handed technique that really helps me get in the rhythm of kneading: I grab the far edge of the dough and fold it over itself toward me, then push and compress the dough. Repeat with the other hand - you should be going at this somewhat diagonally so you can get a 90 degree angle. I flip the dough over between repetitions. Basically, though, it's about coming up with what works for you, just like cooking in general. I recommend King Arthur bread flour; it's 12.7% protein (their unbleached AP is 11.7%, which is also high) which will help gluten development. If you're making a particularly dense loaf, like a dryish whole wheat, you can add vital wheat gluten (sold by bob's red mill and if you have a bulk section, probably there for cheaper) to add a bunch of spring - it's 75-80% protein, compared to super-hard pizza flour at usually no higher than 15%. Use sparingly, but it can make some loaves absolutely wonderful. That said, it's always a learning experience for everyone - I learn something from every loaf I make, and I've heard the same from veteran bakers. Don't be ashamed of making a few chewy loaves.
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Nov 24, 2013 08:46
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Last batch of bread still came out a tiny bit gummy. Next time I'm going to proof the dough in a parchment-lined loaf pan for shape, then keep them in the oven a little longer. Still new to these no-knead doughs, but I'm getting there. Hopefully I can make some decent bread by thanksgiving, or I'll be hung by my baker's apron. Feet dangling in the breeze, gummy bread stuffed into my mouth under lifeless eyes. I don't own an apron.
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Nov 24, 2013 13:05
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bacalou posted:I've been making no-knead breads and found that is fairly difficult to shape the bread into loaves, even with generous dustings of flour. Whatever I do, the dough is incredibly sticky and is very difficult to manage into decent shapes. Is there a good method for shaping incredibly sticky dough? Any tips would be highly appreciated. I missed this question from you earlier but I've used this technique before to make my no-knead into loaves a little more like sandwich bread: http://www.thekitchn.com/noknead-bread-hack-how-to-make-105248 You're not really adding much more flour at all to the bread but it's slightly easier to work with the sticky dough. This method also means a bit of a softer crust which I was going for since I was serving the bread to little kids and older people with dentures but you can add a pan of water during baking to get a crispy top crust if you like; it's no big deal.
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Nov 24, 2013 14:36
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I finally got up the courage to try making some of that no knead bread. I think it came out pretty good. Followed the normal recipe that is floating around everywhere and let the dough sit for like 20 hours.   Nice and crunchy crust. I don't know why I waited so long. It wasn't very scary, and I definitely wasn't very precise about much.
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Nov 24, 2013 22:00
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c355n4 posted:I finally got up the courage to try making some of that no knead bread. I think it came out pretty good. Followed the normal recipe that is floating around everywhere and let the dough sit for like 20 hours. That looks excellent. It really isn't scary at all, doesn't need precision, and is amazingly satisfying.
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Nov 24, 2013 23:32
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Is there such a thing as TOO much hydration in dough? I'm fermenting a no-knead batch of dough in my fridge right now and it's a bit runnier than the last one I did. Not runny, per se...just wetter. Any downside to this? Going off this recipe, scaled up a bit. I've never found the amount of water called for in that recipe to be nearly enough to make a cohesive ball of dough, but I accidentally added a little too much this time. What is going to happen?!
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Nov 25, 2013 18:40
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The Midniter posted:Is there such a thing as TOO much hydration in dough? I'm fermenting a no-knead batch of dough in my fridge right now and it's a bit runnier than the last one I did. Not runny, per se...just wetter. Any downside to this? Going off this recipe, scaled up a bit. I've never found the amount of water called for in that recipe to be nearly enough to make a cohesive ball of dough, but I accidentally added a little too much this time. What is going to happen?! Higher hydration = harder to work and handle, mostly. Higher hydration also unlocks massive bubbles if it proves for long enough. In a no-knead I don't think you'd notice the difference.
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Nov 25, 2013 19:10
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I'm sure this has been asked before but how do I avoid a big-rear end fuckin hole in the middle of my bread I've been using this recipe for my whole wheat sandwich loaves and like four time out of five it comes out with this huge hole in the middle near the top.
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Nov 25, 2013 19:12
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The Midniter posted:Is there such a thing as TOO much hydration in dough? I'm fermenting a no-knead batch of dough in my fridge right now and it's a bit runnier than the last one I did. Not runny, per se...just wetter. Any downside to this? Going off this recipe, scaled up a bit. I've never found the amount of water called for in that recipe to be nearly enough to make a cohesive ball of dough, but I accidentally added a little too much this time. What is going to happen?! That's 70% hydration which should be just fine. Are you measuring by mass or by volume? If the latter, stop it. Rasamune posted:I'm sure this has been asked before but how do I avoid a big-rear end fuckin hole in the middle of my bread I...have no earthly idea. Do you have pictures of this phenomenon?
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Nov 25, 2013 19:52
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:That's 70% hydration which should be just fine. Are you measuring by mass or by volume? If the latter, stop it. By mass, of course. Volume?? What am I, some sort of savage?
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Nov 25, 2013 20:03
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Rasamune posted:I'm sure this has been asked before but how do I avoid a big-rear end fuckin hole in the middle of my bread Are you 'rolling' the dough up to form a loaf shape for the last rise? Sometimes if you aren't rolling it tight enough you'll get air bubbles between the layers when you bake it. You could also try slashing the top of the loaf before you bake it if it's forming an air bubble near the top in the slash depth region (1/4-1/2" from the top of the loaf.)
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Nov 25, 2013 23:05
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My standard loaf has 70% hydration and turns out great. I find once I get closer to 80% I start having trouble with getting it to hold its loafy shape on the second rise. For anyone that hasn't tried it I highly recommend making some bread using the french slap method. This video was posted in this thread ages ago but some people may not have tried it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOjSp5_YiF0 It has changed my bread making. It makes the inside so light and fluffy, while still getting the great crust on the outside. One thing I have never quite got the hang of is my second rise. Whether my 70% french slap bread, or the no-knead recipe from the OP, if after shaping I leave my bread for more than 20 minutes or so I get a really poor oven rise. If I do the poke test after shaping it almost immediately leaves a little bit of a dent. I've read people leaving their bread from an hour to 1 1/2 hours before putting in the oven, if I do this it just comes out flatter than I would like. Still I feel like I should be leaving my bread for a second rise for longer - 20 minutes doesn't seem like long enough. Could it be the flour or water I use? I've used a few different shaping techniques so I don't think that is the problem.
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Nov 26, 2013 00:12
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Use a proofing basket or a couche for your final rise http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/bakers-couche It will hold it in place if using a couche to do baguttes on you usually use a board to "flip" the baguette out of the couche and use that too out it into the oven. There are videos on YouTube of that. A basket you just plop it gently onto your peel and out it in the oven. Which one you use depends on what shape you want the loaf to be.
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Nov 26, 2013 01:02
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I'm making the starter from Tartine Bread and this is what it looks like after 50ish hours. Does that look right? This is my first time making bread or working with yeast. I'm hoping those bubbles are from wild yeast. It does look like there's gas in there, and the book says I should wait 2-3 days. I'm not sure why one side is darker than the other. It's not the lighting. Looks really disgusting though and the idea of wild yeast/fungus/bacteria is kind of gross. I hope I don't die.
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Nov 26, 2013 01:10
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Harsh Tokerman posted:Are you 'rolling' the dough up to form a loaf shape for the last rise? Sometimes if you aren't rolling it tight enough you'll get air bubbles between the layers when you bake it. You could also try slashing the top of the loaf before you bake it if it's forming an air bubble near the top in the slash depth region (1/4-1/2" from the top of the loaf.) I've been using the method where you punch it down, fold it into thirds, punch it down, fold it into thirds, repeat until you have something sort of log-shaped. I've only been dragging the knife along the top of the loaf when I slash; I'll try cutting a little deeper and see if that fixes the problem.
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Nov 26, 2013 01:12
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Thank you bread thread. Thank you. You've changed my life. There is a tome of info here and I'm eternally grateful that you've all shared. I'm still making no-kneads a lot as it's just so easy and convenient, but I'm kneading now too because I want to develop technique and I've found I enjoy it. I've started a sourdough culture and look forward to it getting some of that good, good stank. Today I made my first challah, with the smitten kitchen best challah recipe.   Hell yeah. Mastodon Henley fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Nov 28, 2013 |
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Nov 28, 2013 03:41
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basmati posted:Thank you bread thread. Thank you. You've changed my life. There is a tome of info here and I'm eternally grateful that you've all shared. Those are gorgeous! I love the no-knead peeking from behind as well. I was not keen to start kneading bread but once I did I discovered I enjoyed it as well. There's something calming about it.
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Nov 28, 2013 03:44
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TenKindsOfCrazy posted:Those are gorgeous! I love the no-knead peeking from behind as well. Totally. It's also an exercise in patience and focus. For me it kind of becomes mindless focus so to speak, and that's when it gets calming/relaxing. I fumbled and panicked a few times with really sticky dough wondering what I was doing wrong. Turns out, I was doing nothing wrong. Sometimes it just needs (kneads? Har har.) a little more work but it gets there.
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Nov 28, 2013 03:51
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basmati posted:Thank you bread thread. Thank you. You've changed my life. There is a tome of info here and I'm eternally grateful that you've all shared. Holy mackerel, those challah (challot?) look amazing. I usually knead with my KA but I do enjoy manual kneading when I have the time, which is rare. I love that moment when it ceases to be a sticky mass and becomes something coherent with a structure.
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Nov 28, 2013 11:20
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therattle posted:(challot?) Ja, mein goy. Honey is awesome in challah bread, just FYI. Also six braids or bust.
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Nov 28, 2013 11:49
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Tackled a no knead ciabatta bread and think it turned out great (despite a slightly drier dough then expected!  And crumb  Unrelated question, I recently made injera with 100% teff, and the sourness was almost over whelming. Is this just how its supposed to be or did I ferment too long (3 days)?. Could this be neutralized a bit by cutting it with wheat without losing its signature texture? 
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Nov 28, 2013 21:12
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This is my 80% Hydration Baguette attempt ~#8 (I think). The other attempts were edible but not really worth photographing for varying reasons. I think I've almost got the hang of the technique.  My kitchen was pretty cold today so they probably could have done with another 15~20mins to get a really open crumb structure. Tastes great.
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Nov 30, 2013 23:26
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twoot posted:This is my 80% Hydration Baguette attempt ~#8 (I think). The other attempts were edible but not really worth photographing for varying reasons. I think I've almost got the hang of the technique. This thread always makes me hungry. Nice job! I tried a few things over the weekend. First, I made hawaiian rolls. They came out super thick and heavy, basically the complete opposite of how they should have came out. I'm not sure what I did wrong, but I got a new jar of yeast, so I'm going to try batch number 2 later today. I also baked pizza using Peter Reinhart's dough recipe. It was much harder to work with than other dough I have used, but I'm starting to get better at tossing. Unfortunately, I don't think I used enough semolina flour on the sheet I was using to transfer the pizza to the stone, because it pretty much just stuck. I ended up just throwing the sheet on top of the stone and called it done. Pizza turned out to be pretty tasty in the end, but a slightly crispier crust from the pizza stone would've been nice. The crust still tasted fantastic.
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Dec 1, 2013 10:41
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If anybody else would find a baker's math calculator useful here you go: link If it can use any improvement let me know, though it is a pretty simple thing that just spits out math in a somewhat pretty form. e: now in v1.1, with preferment support! 
SymmetryrtemmyS fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Dec 1, 2013 |
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Dec 1, 2013 12:05
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Can anybody tell me about focaccia? As far as I conceive of it, all bread is all bread, the biggest difference apart from ingredients is hydration and how it is kneaded. I am trying to recreate this focaccia I had a long time ago at an Italian restaurant in my town. I want to say it was fairly tall but with a super cavernous open crumb, you would tear a piece in half and it would have these "peaks and valleys" in the crumb and when you dipped it in oil, the peaks would soak up the oil so it wouldn't get too oily and it was great. It may have been like a soft ciabatta or something, but it had a yellow cast hue, and was decently chewy and didn't have a crust at all. The crumb structure makes me think it was a sourdough or had a really long, undisturbed rising period. All that said, couldn't I just take a formula that already has a high hydration, maybe up the hydration a bit more to like 80%, stretch and fold it 1 or 2 times over a couple hours bulk ferment, then throw it in a pan, stretch it out to the size of the pan and then just let it rise in the fridge over night? I was looking at maybe tweaking the Tartine English muffin formula, which is itself a baguette dough that you do just knead a few times, stretch out and let rise before cutting the muffins and cooking them. I've only made focaccia once before, and it was maybe the second bread I tried and it was a Rachael Ray recipe with like 1 tablespoon of salt to maybe 4 or 5 cups of bread flour and maybe 1 1/2 cups of water or something, so in addition to being incredibly salty it was kind of dry and crumbly. So I'm not an expert at focaccia which is why I've come to you, bread thread. EDIT: It looked a bit like this but without the crust. Devoyniche fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 1, 2013 21:46
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I just walked into the kitchen to see my roommate pulling a frozen pizza off of the baking stone, which he had taken out of the hot oven and placed on the counter. I don't think I have been so  in years. Is my stone weaker now?
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Dec 2, 2013 04:42
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bacalou posted:I just walked into the kitchen to see my roommate pulling a frozen pizza off of the baking stone, which he had taken out of the hot oven and placed on the counter. I don't think I have been so So so sad. Excellent excuse for a big chunk of carbon steel.
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Dec 2, 2013 20:58
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Sjurygg posted:Ja, mein goy. Who you callin' a goy? 
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Dec 2, 2013 23:17
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bacalou posted:I just walked into the kitchen to see my roommate pulling a frozen pizza off of the baking stone, which he had taken out of the hot oven and placed on the counter. I don't think I have been so Get over it. Some frozen pizzas are quite nice, and homemade pizza is intimidating for someone who doesn't cook. If he let the stone preheat long enough (which, admittedly, is doubtful) it's still a nice way to cook one.
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Dec 3, 2013 00:36
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mediaphage posted:Get over it. Some frozen pizzas are quite nice, and homemade pizza is intimidating for someone who doesn't cook. If he let the stone preheat long enough (which, admittedly, is doubtful) it's still a nice way to cook one. It's not about his roommate cooking a cheap pizza it's about thermal shock. Putting something ice cold on a hot pizza stone can crack or break it. In addition you can break a stone by putting it on a counter.
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Dec 3, 2013 01:09
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NightConqueror posted:It's not about his roommate cooking a cheap pizza it's about thermal shock. Putting something ice cold on a hot pizza stone can crack or break it. In addition you can break a stone by putting it on a counter. Admittedly I missed the part about putting the stone on the counter. I don't think the pizza is going to do much to the hot stone, not when a pizza is so much less massive than the stone. Frankly, I'd be far more worried about the stone damaging the counter if it was 500 degrees rather than the reverse. Pizza stones aren't that expensive and if a roommate broke it I'd make them pick up a new one.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:40
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mediaphage posted:Admittedly I missed the part about putting the stone on the counter. I don't think the pizza is going to do much to the hot stone, not when a pizza is so much less massive than the stone. Frankly, I'd be far more worried about the stone damaging the counter if it was 500 degrees rather than the reverse. Pizza stones aren't that expensive and if a roommate broke it I'd make them pick up a new one. Seeing as the stone is a loaner from my friend's mother, I'd really prefer it not to break. That being said, the stone seems to be fine, although I won't let anyone put frozen food on it again if possible. Still having trouble forming no knead loaves, however. bacalou fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 12:08
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I know this isn't quite no-knead, but I heard about an interesting technique for high-hydration loaves recently. Simply start with 110F/43C water and combine ingredients, then fold the dough in half every half hour for 3-4 hours, then follow immediately with a long retardation. This gets the yeast really excited and building tons of gluten so you can get some remarkable results, and I would think that you could more easily form such a loaf. As far as general high-hydration shaping goes...good luck. I'm not very good at it either. The key seems to be minimal hand contact, using the edges of your hands to tuck dough in and under itself.
SymmetryrtemmyS fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 12:17
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bacalou posted:Seeing as the stone is a loaner from my friend's mother, I'd really prefer it not to break. That being said, the stone seems to be fine, although I won't let anyone put frozen food on it again if possible. Try flouting then folding the dough a few times before shaping. Also, you only need enough water to make the dough come together, and no more.
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Dec 4, 2013 13:37
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I have a sourdough starter that's on day three now. The recipe I'm using says to use unbleached flour but I fed it bleached flour this morning without thinking. Is this going to be an issue or should it be okay to use bleached flour?
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Dec 4, 2013 21:24
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oneliquidninja posted:I have a sourdough starter that's on day three now. The recipe I'm using says to use unbleached flour but I fed it bleached flour this morning without thinking. Is this going to be an issue or should it be okay to use bleached flour? Should be ok; they want unbleached to start with so that the yeast present in the flour can be used to form the starter.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:31
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therattle posted:Should be ok; they want unbleached to start with so that the yeast present in the flour can be used to form the starter. I started with unbleached whole wheat and it looked like it was forming air pockets this morning when I fed it so I'm assuming a yeast culture is taking off. I picked up some unbleached white flour at the store, should I switch over to that while I get it going or would it be okay to keep using bleached flour? (I have a bunch of bleached flour sitting around is why I ask) *edit* v-v Thanks 
oneliquidninja fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 21:40
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oneliquidninja posted:I started with unbleached whole wheat and it looked like it was forming air pockets this morning when I fed it so I'm assuming a yeast culture is taking off. I picked up some unbleached white flour at the store, should I switch over to that while I get it going or would it be okay to keep using bleached flour? (I have a bunch of bleached flour sitting around is why I ask) I'd probably use unbleached just to ensure there's a supply of yeast going into it, then use up your bleached once it's well established or to bake.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:46
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