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Is it that he isn't getting the click's meaning or is he not associating it with his actions? I can't really lure with Major, even though he definitely knows the click and a marker word, because he never makes the connection follow food->sit my butt->get food (for example), it just becomes follow food->get food. It works really well for teaching him to mug my hand for treats constantly but not so much for actually teaching him behaviors. I fade lures super fast if I have to use them but mostly focus on capturing or shaping and it works much better even if it takes longer for the dog to understand. Teaching him to follow hands without food in them and moving the food away a bit might help him focus on the action rather than the reward more too.
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Nov 26, 2013 19:02
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How hard is it to train a dig to so something counter to its nature? The dig we are fostering is, we think, an Akbash and not a Great Pryenees. It's perfect except it gets a little excited when it senses other dogs. Which is pretty much what it was bred to do. Is it possible to train this 18 month old like if white fur to be chill around unfamiliar dogs? Or is this going to be an unpleasant ordeal?
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Nov 26, 2013 21:14
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Oxford Comma posted:How hard is it to train a dig to so something counter to its nature? It's really unlikely that you have a purebred anything, particularly a rare LGD that's only been in the States 30 years. Color and size don't breed true in mixes, so you can get something that strongly resembles a purebred that it has no relation to at all. LGDs shouldn't be excited by other dogs, they should be protective of poo poo against strangers (dogs or humans). Teaching an 18-month old good socialization manners is harder than teaching a puppy. Manage his interactions so that he isn't bounding up to other dogs that don't want him there - keep him on a leash until he chills out, reinforce good behavior (looking away from the other dog, letting the leash go slack) with food. If it's reactivity rather than excitement, treat every time he sees another dog regardless of his behavior, and try to keep his interactions with other dogs limited to seeing them at a distance.
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Nov 26, 2013 21:29
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Oxford Comma posted:The dig we are fostering is, we think, an Akbash and not a Great Pryenees It's not and you should be thankful that it isn't.
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Nov 26, 2013 21:37
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Oxford Comma posted:How hard is it to train a dig to so something counter to its nature? I thought you adopted the dog? When did that change?
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Nov 26, 2013 21:55
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demozthenes posted:It's not and you should be thankful that it isn't. Maybe I should say he looks like an Akbash mix. The shelter said he was a Great Dane/Anatolian Shepherd mix, but I do not see it at all. Then we suspected he was Pyrenees, but Akbash looks like a better fit for his appearance and temperament. I see some Lab in him. This is our dog:  This is an Akbash/Lab mix, according to GiS:  But who knows, for sure.  TVs Ian posted:I thought you adopted the dog? When did that change? It is a foster-to-adopt. You basically get the dog for two weeks to see how it works out. If everything is good, you pay the remainder of the adoption fee and get the dog. Right now my wife and I are on the fence about him. He gets along well with our kids, cats, and other dog. So far he's the only dog we've found that does all of that and has been fairly mellow. On the other hand, if he hears a dog barking on TV he has to bark back, and my wife and I have to repeatedly drag him off the couch because he's barking out the window (to be fair, as a livestock guardian dog, its what he's supposed to do.) We are undecided on keeping the dog. Oxford Comma fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 21:57
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Oxford Comma posted:It is a foster-to-adopt. You basically get the dog for two weeks to see how it works out. If everything is good, you pay the remainder of the adoption fee and get the dog. Right now my wife and I are on the fence about him. He gets along well with our kids, cats, and other dog. So far he's the only dog we've found that does all of that and has been fairly mellow. On the other hand, if he hears a dog barking on TV he has to bark back, and my wife and I have to repeatedly drag him off the couch because he's barking out the window (to be fair, as a livestock guardian dog, its what he's supposed to do.) We are undecided on keeping the dog. If you're had to repeatedly drag him off the couch for barking out the window, why isn't the curtain drawn or his access to that area restricted? He looks like a mutt. A tall mutt. Getting along with kids/cats/other dog makes me think not LGD. My dog alert barks. I paired a loud 'thank you' with food, fading the treat in time until he got treated for several seconds of silence before fading the food to a random reinforcement schedule. He still alert barks, but now he knows to shut up once he's told me about it (maybe 80% of the time?).
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Nov 26, 2013 23:07
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One of my dog alert barks, I started out making a point to go look at what he was barking at while telling him that he'd done his job and could stop barking. Now I can just tell him he's done his job without actually getting up and he stops barking. Although most of the time I get up anyway because when he barks it's for a reason and at my old place he scared off a couple would-be break-ins. I wouldn't discourage alert barking within reason since it does serve a purpose. For the window barking during the day, just close the blinds/curtains. Problem solved. I'm working on this myself with my other dog, he BARKBARKBARKS when we're outside and other dogs are around. I make him look at me and I wait for him to shut up and as soon as he shuts up I make a huge deal about it and give him treats. For dogs that thrive on attention, ignoring him outright while he's barking his head off and showering him with affection when he quiets down can work too. Part of his barking might be that everything is NEW! and EXCITING! and once he gets used to his new house and the sights and sounds of your neighborhood he may calm down. When I moved every time a neighbor dog barked my dogs would bark back, but now they're used to it and don't even acknowledge there are neighbor dogs out when they are. Give him some time to settle in and figure out his new life and routine and then re-assess. Both my dogs were emotional wrecks for a couple days when I took them home then came out of their shells as totally different (more awesome) dogs after they settled in.
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Nov 27, 2013 03:59
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My girlfriend and I walk dogs 2-3 times a week for a rescue group at a kennel they put the dogs up in when there's not enough foster homes. As such, we get a huge range of dogs coming through, with all kinds of different quirks and problems. So far, apart from a ridiculously dog reactive one, we've had no issues, however as the more energetic ones are only getting walked 2-3 times a week, they've got so much energy to burn off when we take them out. Is there any way I can teach them in short bursts once or twice a week on the walks to not pull on the leashes as hard? Or is it easier just to teach them once they're worn out, and therefore better just to let them get their exercise and leave the training up to any potential adopters? Edit: to undumb my English. crowtribe fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 04:28
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crowtribe posted:Is there any way I can teach them in short bursts once or twice a week on the walks to not pull on the leashes as hard? Or is it easier just to teach them once they're worn out, and therefore better just to let them get their exercise and leave the training up to any potential adopters? Not effectively. The shelter I volunteer with uses front-clip no-pull harnesses for walking and back-clip harnesses for jogging because getting exercised is more important (and more realistic) than teaching loose leash walking. We do a fair bit of other training and most dogs go home with at least a basic sit.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:38
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Alert barking is super common and not unique to LGDs. My mom's pugs flip their poo poo and bark if they hear dogs barking on TV. Our border collie barks if someone comes to the door.Instant Jellyfish posted:Is it that he isn't getting the click's meaning or is he not associating it with his actions? I can't really lure with Major, even though he definitely knows the click and a marker word, because he never makes the connection follow food->sit my butt->get food (for example), it just becomes follow food->get food. It works really well for teaching him to mug my hand for treats constantly but not so much for actually teaching him behaviors. The latter seems to be pretty much exactly it. But he's even worse at shaping. He will sit and laser focus on you/the food until he gets bored and goes away. Skizzles fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 04:47
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crowtribe posted:My girlfriend and I walk dogs 2-3 times a week for a rescue group at a kennel they put the dogs up in when there's not enough foster homes. I'm a shelter volunteer, but the dogs I walk get walked much more frequently (10-20 min walks, 2-3 times a day on average). I do attempt to deal with pulling for some dogs, if I think they might learn, but most of the time I don't bother. Some breeds I don't even try – huskies and scenthounds, for instance. Most non-stupid dogs can at least get a little better over the course of a walk, though. For some, stopping if they pull and starting when they pay attention to me, works pretty well. For some, I turn and walk in the opposite direction every time they pull. I WISH my shelter had front-clipping harnesses, they just use choke chains on the worst dogs.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:53
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I am having trouble with my black lab mix barking at the tv. When he first started doing it, we thought it was cute that he would bark at the dogs on TV, but it's gotten out of hand. He barks at literally every animal he sees on TV, hair standing up and running to the room behind the tv to try to find it. I've tried getting his attention away from the tv when he starts but he keeps barking until the animal is gone and he will finally stop. I've tried to do some treats or something to get his attention away, but he only glances at me then back to barking at the tv. Any ideas how to break him from this?
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Nov 27, 2013 10:31
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You're going to need a clicker and treats on hand. You need to start with getting his attention over everything else. So reward when he looks back at you click and treat. He'll soon learn to concentrate on you and not the TV. Then you can desensitize by slowly raising the distraction level. Start with an animal video on low volume and slowly raise the volume. You can probably use YouTube videos for this.
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Nov 27, 2013 15:40
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Skizzles posted:Alert barking is super common and not unique to LGDs. My mom's pugs flip their poo poo and bark if they hear dogs barking on TV. Our border collie barks if someone comes to the door. Yeah, I've met fewer dogs who don't alert bark than those who do (at least without training). If that's enough reason for you (Oxford Comma) to not keep the dog, then you'll probably be looking for a long time. Which is fine, just be prepared for that. It's also not difficult to train out, you just have to be consistent and make sure the dog can't look out the windows when you're not there to deal with it because it's a pretty strong self-reinforcing behavior. I've gotten rid of it in my two older dogs and it's going away in my youngest one with pretty minimal effort (well, for people just walking by anyway...they bark when people come up to the house or ring the doorbell, but I like that). MDC505 posted:I've tried to do some treats or something to get his attention away, but he only glances at me then back to barking at the tv. In addition to what cheese eats mouse said, you might need to switch to higher-value treats. Think smelly and tasty stuff--slightly warm hotdog pieces, cheese, that sort of thing. Basically, something that's pretty much irresistible to your dog.
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Nov 27, 2013 16:45
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Ugggghhh... So as some of you know, my wife and I are fostering-to-adopt a big Akbash dog named Thor. He's been a decent dog so far. His appetite has improved and he gets along with all members of our family. Except he barks. A lot. Its bad enough when he sees the neighbor thru the kitchen window at midnight and wakes everyone up. But he barks when he is left home alone. According to our neighbor, he doesn't stop. My wife is of the belief that a shock collar is the way to change this behavior. Me...I'm not so sure. I'm not sure that zapping a dog, who is doing what he was bred to do, is fair or humane. But I don't want to rule it out if it could work. PI, what say you?
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Dec 2, 2013 02:16
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From reading this thread I'm of the opinion that you should not keep that dog. Easier solution than shocking a dog.
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Dec 2, 2013 03:11
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Oxford Comma posted:My wife is of the belief that a shock collar is the way to change this behavior. Me...I'm not so sure. I'm not sure that zapping a dog, who is doing what he was bred to do, is fair or humane. But I don't want to rule it out if it could work. PI, what say you? Its pretty drat early to think about shocking a dog to train out barking. Barking is frustrating and irritating and challenging to train out. I agree with you, dogs were bred in general to be alert guardians of their home. If you are correct about the mix, it may be impossible to train this dog to be quiet when people aren't at home. I have heard of dogs who never understood the bark collar wanted them to shut up. They would bark and yelp and not stop, and then the collar would run out of juice so the dog could bark without consequence!
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Dec 2, 2013 03:28
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Oxford Comma posted:Ugggghhh... First off the dog is not an Akbash because they are really rare, its maybe a Pyr mix. Secondly, just return the dog. You don't sound like you are up to handling the significant training challenges the dog has. Using a shock collar for barking is a bad idea, especially when its the first thing you try.
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Dec 2, 2013 03:43
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Speaking of barking, Pistol's got a barking problem I need to solve. He's very good and quiet at home with the occasional alert bark, but as soon as we get to agility class every week he turns into a barking rear end in a top hat. This is the ONLY time he becomes a little poo poo barking-wise. He's good at the dog park and if I take him other places with dogs (like Petco and such), but there's something about agility that sets him off. CONSTANT barking from the minute we get out of the car to the end of class. I reward him when he sits quietly and I try to keep him occupied asking him to do stuff during downtime to keep him from barking, but it only helps so much. I think part of the cause is him being frustrated waiting for other dogs to do obstacles that we're waiting for. He wasn't a barky rear end in a top hat in the foundation obedience class with these same exact dogs, the only difference being everyone was doing stuff at the same time with no downtime waiting for obstacles. As soon as it's our turn he shuts up and focuses, but as soon as we're back in line waiting he starts barking again. We're in a beginner's class so all the other obstacles are either taken or we haven't done them yet so we're not allowed to practice them alone. The instructors have suggested having him run off the excess energy before class, but I've only got maybe 45 minutes between when I get home from work and when we have to leave to feed the dogs and feed myself and change clothes and whatnot so I really only have like 15-20 minutes to spare before class on a good day so I can't really run off enough energy to make a difference. It helps if we're one of the first dogs at the field, but sometimes I can't swing that. Some days I come home, throw some food at Max and grab Pistol and go with no downtime and show up to class right as it's starting and everyone else is already there. What can I do to make this dog STFU? I know it's got to be annoying and distracting for his classmates and it's frustrating for me because he's so quiet at home and everywhere else so it's not something we can work on outside of class.
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Dec 2, 2013 03:46
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Aquatic Giraffe posted:What can I do to make this dog STFU? I know it's got to be annoying and distracting for his classmates and it's frustrating for me because he's so quiet at home and everywhere else so it's not something we can work on outside of class. Will he crate quietly? Apart from that, you may be able to get a similar situation you can work with at the dog park - have you tried quiet waiting near the park? I have an rear end in a top hat who won't crate quietly and would bark pretty constantly if I let him. I end up basically working him the entire time he's out, and shutting him in the car or in the bathroom (which dampens the sound) when we're waiting a while between runs. We play 'look at that' or practice down-stays, but I basically tailor the treat rate to whatever will keep him from demand barking - he goes through a lot of food. There are a lot of agility dogs who bark constantly while gearing up and while running. Some of them even refrain from biting their handlers. I wouldn't worry overmuch about ruining the class for other people; they'll have to deal with some level of it at some point if they end up trialing.
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Dec 2, 2013 04:36
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Oxford Comma posted:Ugggghhh... Agreeing with everyone else; a shock collar is only going to suppress YOUR problem (instead of resolving the underlying issue and fixing the problem for both you and the dog) and cause the dog unnecessary stress. It could also potentially worsen or create behavioral issues. Based on all your previous posts about this dog I don't think it's the best fit for what you're looking for/prepared to deal with. If I was in your shoes I would keep looking.
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Dec 2, 2013 04:52
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wtftastic posted:First off the dog is not an Akbash because they are really rare, its maybe a Pyr mix. First off, it is an Akbash. Just because the breed is rare doesn't mean we didn't come across one. True story: One of the techs at our vet worked in Turkey with this breed. When we brought the dog in to be examined, she looked up and exclaimed, "Oh my! You got an Akbash!" So I'm going to go with her assessment. I appreciate the words from all you goons about shock collars. I'm going to tell my wife to find another way, or else we will return the dog and find another.
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Dec 2, 2013 05:22
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Oxford Comma posted:First off, it is an Akbash. Just because the breed is rare doesn't mean we didn't come across one. True story: One of the techs at our vet worked in Turkey with this breed. When we brought the dog in to be examined, she looked up and exclaimed, "Oh my! You got an Akbash!" So I'm going to go with her assessment. True story: I've had multiple people call Otis a wolf. Some of them were even wearing suits when they said it. I mean, they had on suits, they can't be mistaken. Plus one of them was Native American and I think a Native American would know a wolf when they saw one. Edit: Return the dog for everyone's sake, please. You should also let the rescue know specifically why so that they can match you with a dog that is less prone to barking. Probably worth mentioning to them that you considered a shock collar as well.
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Dec 2, 2013 05:47
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an expert posted:Edit: Return the dog for everyone's sake, please. You should also let the rescue know specifically why so that they can match you with a dog that is less prone to barking. Probably worth mentioning to them that you considered a shock collar as well. If he returns the dog for the reasons he's explained to us, (it is a dog, it barks sometimes, it chews things sometimes, it gets excited to meet other dogs), they'll probably tell him to get a stuffed dog. Seriously dude just medicate your old dog until she dies and don't get another dog unless you're willing to accept that dogs Do Things That You Don't Like Sometimes such as actual real things that normal dogs do. Alternatively get a GSD puppy and find out what REAL hard work is.
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Dec 2, 2013 06:01
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Hey man nice Akbash you got! I got a boxer and man, he's a handful. Check him out! He barks a lot too. Like if there's a loud noise outside, he'll bark at it. Or if another dog barks, he'll bark at it! This dog is bark crazy! I just spray him with water and then go 'tsst! no! bad!' until he stops making any sort of noise. Try that!
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Dec 2, 2013 06:10
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Thanks for the words of advice, guys.
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Dec 2, 2013 06:13
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Engineer Lenk posted:Will he crate quietly? Crates turn the barking into piteous wailing. I don't crate my dogs because when I first got them I lived in an apartment and it was easier to deal with the occasional chewed shoe or mess than have them cry all day and get noise complaints from the neighbors. I need to work on it with Pistol at least for when he does trials in the future, but  I may give working on waiting quietly at the dog park a try. He behaves similarly when we're just outside the gate to the park so it may work. He's learned that barking in the car is Not Okay (so he makes high pitched eeeee noises instead), so he is capable of learning that barking is not allowed in certain circumstances which gives me hope. There's a Dog Lady in his class that shoots us nasty looks for each "ARF!" and tries to corner me after class every week to lecture me about it, no one else really seems to care that much (the instructors find it endearing somehow) but I'd still like him to quiet down because I have no idea what the instructors are saying most of the time because they're drowned out by Pistol's barks.
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Dec 2, 2013 07:15
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Oxford Comma posted:First off, it is an Akbash. Just because the breed is rare doesn't mean we didn't come across one. True story: One of the techs at our vet worked in Turkey with this breed. When we brought the dog in to be examined, she looked up and exclaimed, "Oh my! You got an Akbash!" So I'm going to go with her assessment. It sounds like you're clinging to the notion that he's an Akbash because you don't know how dogs behave, and having a rare breed with special traits excuses that. He is a mutt. Vet techs are not trained in breed discernment, regardless of whether or not they've been to Turkey. Return the mutt, and get a nice old dog without any personality that won't bark, jump, etc. I'm not being facetious, there are plenty of older, bland dogs in shelters that will be exactly what you want with the minor amount of work you are willing to put in.
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Dec 2, 2013 07:31
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Aquatic Giraffe posted:Crates turn the barking into piteous wailing. I don't crate my dogs because when I first got them I lived in an apartment and it was easier to deal with the occasional chewed shoe or mess than have them cry all day and get noise complaints from the neighbors. I need to work on it with Pistol at least for when he does trials in the future, but Cohen barks CONSTANTLY while running. It's gotten to a point where I don't even notice the noise. She'd probably bark during set up too if I hadn't worked on it. So, in my mind, barking while running is okay. Barking while the instructor is trying to talk is not. Barking while other dogs is running is a bit of a grey area, but ideally he'll not be working himself up over what other dogs are doing. You need to work on keeping his attention around distractions. And the number one way you work on getting 100% of his attention is giving him 100% of your attention. Are you letting your attention lapse while you listen to your instructor? Or when it's not his turn to run? If so, stop it! Any agility instructor I've ever had has said that your dog is your first priority. The only time you can stop giving your dog 100% is when you have the dog performing a control exercise like a down-stay. (And that's only assuming your dog is capable of performing it in a distracting environment without your attention -- pretty advanced.) So, work on the Look at That game, do fun tricks and small obedience routines and make it FUN FUN FUN all the time, the entire time he's in the building. Work hard to keep him with you. Hand touch game is good for this. Increase distance if you continue to have trouble. Crating is also a a great option, if Pistol was crate trained. a life less fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 13:41
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Oxford Comma posted:Thanks for the words of advice, guys. Take the dog back yesterday. The dog is fine but it's not the right dog for you. If that dog is an akbash, I need hoof picks for my dogs.
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Dec 2, 2013 14:57
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a life less posted:Cohen barks CONSTANTLY while running. It's gotten to a point where I don't even notice the noise. She'd probably bark during set up too if I hadn't worked on it. So, in my mind, barking while running is okay. Barking while the instructor is trying to talk is not. Barking while other dogs is running is a bit of a grey area, but ideally he'll not be working himself up over what other dogs are doing. Would it also be possible (out of curiosity) to train an incompatible behavior like holding something in his mouth (like a rope toy or a retreiving dummy) during times when you need him not to bark?
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Dec 2, 2013 15:55
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Invalid Octopus posted:It sounds like you're clinging to the notion that he's an Akbash because you don't know how dogs behave, and having a rare breed with special traits excuses that. He is a mutt. Vet techs are not trained in breed discernment, regardless of whether or not they've been to Turkey. Return the mutt, and get a nice old dog without any personality that won't bark, jump, etc. I'm not being facetious, there are plenty of older, bland dogs in shelters that will be exactly what you want with the minor amount of work you are willing to put in. In all seriousness, this. My dog is a shelter mutt and he sounds perfect for you guys. Even before I ever did any training with him he was always very quiet, polite, good hiking buddy, great with strangers, children, and cats. It is totally possible to get a better fitting dog from the shelter.
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Dec 2, 2013 16:08
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Skizzles posted:In all seriousness, this. My dog is a shelter mutt and he sounds perfect for you guys. Even before I ever did any training with him he was always very quiet, polite, good hiking buddy, great with strangers, children, and cats. It is totally possible to get a better fitting dog from the shelter. You just need to not rush out, and not let your wife just pick out a dog. Its not something that's going to work out well.
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Dec 2, 2013 16:21
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wtftastic posted:Would it also be possible (out of curiosity) to train an incompatible behavior like holding something in his mouth (like a rope toy or a retreiving dummy) during times when you need him not to bark? Never underestimate terriers. Lola can bark around toys 
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Dec 2, 2013 16:33
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Fraction posted:Never underestimate terriers. Lola can bark around toys Yeah, when Stella howls with a tennis ball in her mouth it kind of acts like a trumpet mute.
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Dec 2, 2013 16:40
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wtftastic posted:Would it also be possible (out of curiosity) to train an incompatible behavior like holding something in his mouth (like a rope toy or a retreiving dummy) during times when you need him not to bark? Yeah, +1 for another person with a dog who barks loudly despite a mouth full of toys. It's not really the barking that's the issue (it's your issue, sure) but the issue is Pistol getting over excited and falling into a doggy echo chamber in class. Tug would be a good game to use to stay connected during class (used in moderation), but you'd probably have to go further than that to properly address the issue. E: The incompatible behaviour that you would be training would be focus around distractions, really. Reward for engagement, eye contact, etc.
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Dec 2, 2013 16:47
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wtftastic posted:You just need to not rush out, and not let your wife just pick out a dog. Its not something that's going to work out well. There's also the combination of factors they're looking for that are somewhat incompatible. You can find a mellow older dog that's chill around kids, cats, and hyper dogs - this is the dog that they should get for their current dog. They also seem to want a young drivey dog that's magically well-behaved and trained, gives good handler focus around distractions, is good with kids, cats and dogs, and will do this on an hour or less of exercise a day. This is the dog they're not going to find in a shelter; dogs you see out and about like this have extensive training in their background (and likely more exercise per day), as well as a good bit of luck in the right temperament. Get an old companion dog for your current dog, because that's the real pressing issue. When she passes, reassess where you are and what you're willing to put into training a dog and find one that's right for your family and activity level.
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Dec 2, 2013 17:58
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Engineer Lenk posted:Yeah, when Stella howls with a tennis ball in her mouth it kind of acts like a trumpet mute. Psyche barks while eating. Then she chokes. Then she barks some more.
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Dec 2, 2013 19:13
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a life less posted:Yeah, +1 for another person with a dog who barks loudly despite a mouth full of toys. It's not really the barking that's the issue (it's your issue, sure) but the issue is Pistol getting over excited and falling into a doggy echo chamber in class. Tug would be a good game to use to stay connected during class (used in moderation), but you'd probably have to go further than that to properly address the issue. I'm lucky in as much as my current dog is not very barky or vocal, so I was just throwing it out there. Was curious if it would work or not. 
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Dec 2, 2013 19:26
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