|
keyvin posted:How many games did the 360 have to sell for MS to turn a profit off of a launch unit? Nobody knows because they are so tight lipped about it. When they do tear downs we always find that the cost to make the physical unit for parts is more than what it is selling at as far as I remember. And that's MSRP, not what they are selling the unit to retailers for. That figure doesn't even include production, packaging, R&D, marketing, etc.
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 20:50 |
|
|
Not all of 2013's releases were announced by this time last year. We didn't know about WWHD until January, or SM3DW until June.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:34
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:Then announce them. I'm not convinced they do, after the Pikmin 3 debacle. Because even for companies that are not notoriously closed-mouth, announcing games past March/April in December is pretty uncommon. The current PS4/XBO game list only goes until April 08th. When Nintendo announced the last batch at E3, the general response was "Why are you telling us about games coming out in 2014?"
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:36
|
|
|
You didn't know about WWHD until January because they rushed it to market from start to finish in 6 months. But, of course, it was also a port, and shouldn't be considered a major release, even though Nintendo claims it is. If their plan is to pepper the rest of the 2014 calendar with severely overpriced ports, I don't think that's gonna cut it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:36
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:Then announce them. I'm not convinced they do, after the Pikmin 3 debacle. Turns out making HD games is really hard. All four of those games are going to be delayed as staff get pulled back and forth in the endless game of musical chairs that is modern Nintendo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:36
|
|
|
Bruceski posted:Also the Smartglass and Vita connectivity are responses to the WiiU's gamepad. Vita unveiling, wherein connectivity was shown off and demonstrated - January 27th, 2011 WiiU unveiling - June 7th, 2011. Whats wrong with this picture? Patter Song posted:So it seems to me that Sony and Microsoft are both hoping for another extra-long generation out to ~2020. (7-8 years rather than 4-5 like it used to be). Maybe Nintendo's move is to release a new console in 2017 or 2018 that's significantly more powerful than the PS4/ XBoxOne but still years ahead of when PS5/XBoxZero come out? Maybe, if it needs the Nintendo Gimmick, it could come with integrated Oculus Rift headset motion controllers. Imagine THAT Golf game. So basically the 3DO?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:36
|
|
|
OatmealRaisin posted:Turns out making HD games is really hard. All four of those games are going to be delayed as staff get pulled back and forth in the endless game of musical chairs that is modern Nintendo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:39
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Because even for companies that are not notoriously closed-mouth, announcing games past March/April in December is pretty uncommon. The current PS4/XBO game list only goes until April 08th. When Nintendo announced the last batch at E3, the general response was "Why are you telling us about games coming out in 2014?" Yeah, this was a common refrain. There is literally no space of time between announcement/release that won't inspire a rant.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:40
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:Then announce them. I'm not convinced they do, after the Pikmin 3 debacle. Starting with the Wii, Nintendo has gotten more conservative with announcing games because they've outright acknowledged that they'd announce games years before they came out and people were getting disappointed when they inevitably got delayed. Now, they want until they're far enough along to where they can announce it without it coming out 3 years later.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:40
|
|
|
Fulchrum posted:So basically the 3DO? If it gets a new Road Rash and Star Control, I'm all for it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:42
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:That's what I assume is still going on ever since they pretty much admitted that with Pikmin 3/Nintendoland. Sure, one could say that they may have improved since then, in the same sense that one could say Nintendo might someday build a strong Internet infrastructure, or that I could someday cure cancer, or the skies will rain with candy. Didn't they pull staff from loving Link Between Worlds to fill gaps on some project or another? I'm not sure Nintendo did even the bare minimum amount of market research for the WiiU
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:44
|
|
|
Paper Jam Dipper posted:Wait, are you angry Nintendo didn't make a Mario game that wasn't in the second or third dimension? I'm not angry about the system getting these games, I just meant that it's predictable since they all seem to be new versions of popular games on the Wii and 3DS. The only real surprises are X and that Fire Emblem and Shin Megami Tensei crossover. If I want to be happy with my Wii U purchase, I want to be getting more interesting games than just incremental updates of older games. If I wanted to play Wii games in HD, I could just do so in Dolphin. Meanwhile, series like F-ZERO, Metroid, and Star Fox haven't been seen in a long time (ignoring Other M, of course), and would genuinely benefit from the more powerful hardware. For instance, LittleBigPlanet is a 2D platformer, but it would have been impossible to make on the SNES because it's three main features are its realistic physics engine, level creation, and 4-player local and online co-op. It's an old style of game that was designed to use modern hardware. Nintendo's fallen in the trap of just making the same old games but prettier, which is why these new entries of Wii games don't really interest me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:46
|
|
|
But the games they announce 6 months away still get delayed (Wii Fit U, Tropical Freeze), so that doesn't really work for me. They should just announce them well in advance. Whatever people get upset by lengthy delays (which happen anyway) is offset by the hype those games generate. There are no doubt people who are waiting to buy a Wii U for Smash Bros, but would be more likely to invest in one now if they knew other exciting games were coming beyond Smash Bros. The one thing I always see from prospective Nintendo hardware buyers is "I don't want to buy this only for the release schedule to dry up". I don't think there's any trust from outside consumers that there's anything substantial beyond what we know. I'm nervous about it as a Wii U owner, because Nintendo has those dry spells, and once Watch Dogs is out there won't be anything else to get excited for.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:47
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:But the games they announce 6 months away still get delayed (Wii Fit U, Tropical Freeze), so that doesn't really work for me. They should just announce them well in advance. Whatever people get upset by lengthy delays (which happen anyway) is offset by the hype those games generate. Again, they used to announce things well in advance (years) and people were getting pissed when they got delayed so you're basically suggesting they go back to a model that they previously got burned on, which doesn't make sense. Yes, at this point it's probably a good idea to give people an idea of what to expect come next year since gently caress all knows nothing else is working, but it seems like there were too many games that were shown off early (Project HAMMER, Kameo, to name a couple) that came out years later or were outright cancelled. What Nintendo DOES need to do is start exporting their more quirky Japan-only games to other markets to supplement their droughts, especially since it can be cheap to do and they may find they have a Katamari Damacy or Ouendan situation on their hands.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 22:59
|
|
|
OatmealRaisin posted:Didn't they pull staff from loving Link Between Worlds to fill gaps on some project or another? I'm not sure Nintendo did even the bare minimum amount of market research for the WiiU Yeah, they talked about it in the LBW Iwata Asks I posted a week or so ago. While they do create separate teams for certain franchises within the larger development groups, when things get hectic a bunch of people usually get plucked (or kidnapped) from one project and put on another. Before work resumed the design coordinator for LBW was actually working on New Leaf in order to get that game out on time. LBW for all intents and purposes was put into stasis around the time they were deep into Skyward Sword development as well as starting on Wii U titles in the fall of 2010 till things settled down around the middle of last year.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:03
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:What Nintendo DOES need to do is start exporting their more quirky Japan-only games to other markets to supplement their droughts, especially since it can be cheap to do and they may find they have a Katamari Damacy or Ouendan situation on their hands. I think one of Ninendo's biggest mistakes with the Wii U was not going full Sony with indie developers. If they'd really gone all out and pushed indie or smaller Japanese developers to put their games on their system, they'd have a much less empty lineup without needing a lot of power. They apparently make it relatively easy for indie developers to port to the Wii U if they choose (especially looking at Kickstarters) but they should be actively encouraging it and offering incentives, not just allowing it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:03
|
|
|
It really seems like Nintendo should hire some more people, although maybe they feel like they can't afford to right now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:05
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:I think one of Ninendo's biggest mistakes with the Wii U was not going full Sony with indie developers. If they'd really gone all out and pushed indie or smaller Japanese developers to put their games on their system, they'd have a much less empty lineup without needing a lot of power. They apparently make it relatively easy for indie developers to port to the Wii U if they choose (especially looking at Kickstarters) but they should be actively encouraging it and offering incentives, not just allowing it. Well it SEEMED like they were courting the indie scene fairly well with regard to eShop cuts, giving out dev kids, and the HTML framework thing they had going on the WiiU but it's been nothing but silent on that front either because the whole discussion lacks transparency, or developers realize that there isn't any money to be made on the WiiU. Mr.Unique-Name posted:It really seems like Nintendo should hire some more people, although maybe they feel like they can't afford to right now. If anything, they need to fire people since the staff they have on now are stuck on their old ways.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:10
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:If anything, they need to fire people since the staff they have on now are stuck on their old ways. I was going to say, from all the stories we hear and about Nintendo being traditional and full of old Japanese guys they're probably being held back by executives that sit in an office and don't do anything but pull in $$$$ because they're old.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:17
|
|
|
Mr.Unique-Name posted:It really seems like Nintendo should hire some more people, although maybe they feel like they can't afford to right now. Don't forget they also have one of the most...unique recruitment systems when it comes to hiring new employees. It'd be interesting to see if new management meant an entire overhaul of that system which might lead to more employees being hired as a result?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:17
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:Again, they used to announce things well in advance (years) and people were getting pissed when they got delayed so you're basically suggesting they go back to a model that they previously got burned on, which doesn't make sense. It's not like people bought a Playstation 4 because they were really desperate to play Knack, just like people didn't buy a 360 because they had to have Kameo in their lives. They buy it because they know awesome stuff is on the way. And you can't just assume that with a system whose sales are flatlining and has the support of only one significant third party publisher. I think Nintendo would be better off announcing distant games that might get delayed than holding everything close to the chest and having almost no hype built up whatsoever. I just think it's stupid. Sony and Microsoft don't worry about that. Game delays happen. It happened to the game that was supposed to be the biggest non-GTA release of 2013, Watch Dogs. Should Ubisoft have not announced it in 2012? Should they have waited until now to announce it? The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Dec 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:19
|
|
|
Nintendo only got burned when they did poo poo like showing us this super early and then giving us Wind Waker. And the strategy worked a lot better than their current one. The issue is that nobody gets excited for new IPs from Nintendo, and everyone else is jaded when we get a new game with Mario in it because it's expected not very innovative. Wasn't the general consensus on Nintendoland that it was a joke when they announced it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:21
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:But what does 'got burned on' really mean, here? How does "people upset about delays" translate into lost sales compared to what I'm seeing now, which is people not knowing what's coming out in the future, so they put off buying it, and they put off buying it, and they put off buying it, until they just don't buy it. I can't really quantify their justification, only that they themselves said they're done with showing off games years in advance and only now do so when they're closer to being released, probably because announcing games years in advance didn't do them much good. Again, their current strategy isn't working so they should probably revisit that but judging by Nintendo's latest marketing pushes, they have more serious root causes that need to be addressed first. People bought a PS4 and an XBO and a WiiU the first day/week because they're the hot thing to have for the season and are new, shiny toys. I'm sure there are people that bought it to prep for stuff coming out next year but I'd wager their priorities were for current games than games coming out in late 2014.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:36
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:But what does 'got burned on' really mean, here? Again, take a good look at Mega Man Legends 3 for an example of just how bad backlash can be. Quest For Glory II posted:I think Nintendo would be better off announcing distant games that might get delayed than holding everything close to the chest and having almost no hype built up whatsoever. I just think it's stupid. Sony and Microsoft don't worry about that. Game delays happen. It happened to the game that was supposed to be the biggest non-GTA release of 2013, Watch Dogs. Should Ubisoft have not announced it in 2012? Should they have waited until now to announce it? Ubisoft ate a lot of crow because of Watch Dogs, including wasting money on a marketing campaign which is now completely out of date. It was a pretty big waste for them and deflated a lot of the hype over the game. (Which was otherwise going to be The Next-Gen Game To Buy.) It will still do well but they took a serious hit for that. Game delays are severe issues any time they happen. There is not a simple measurable "they lost this many sales" response but it generally is never good for the company and can turn games into jokes and injure the brand. That isn't to say Nintendo is entirely right to keep their cards close to the chest but "what's the harm in it?" is easily disprovable from the reaction every time a major delay is announced. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Dec 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:36
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Again, take a good look at Mega Man Legends 3 for an example of just how bad backlash can be. Legends 3 is really a bit of a special case when it comes to announcements, delays and cancellations. Most people probably don't know the game was never formally green-lit at Capcom and only got as far as it did because of the pull Inafune had, however much he had at that point. He was probably banking on Capcom caring enough about the fan backlash they'd get to keep them from stopping production of the game once he had left.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:46
|
|
|
Watch_Dogs is another special case because they seriously put out an ad campaign saying "Two months is long enough to visit Los Santos. Come to Chicago" like a week before the delay announcement. I'm still laughing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:48
|
|
|
Viewtiful Jew posted:Legends 3 is really a bit of a special case when it comes to announcements, delays and cancellations. Most people probably don't know the game was never formally green-lit at Capcom and only got as far as it did because of the pull Inafune had, however much he had at that point. He was probably banking on Capcom caring enough about the fan backlash they'd get to keep them from stopping production of the game once he had left. Yeah, MML3 is a special clusterfuck of PR mishandling on every level, not really being in production, and fan expectations creating a total mess of situation. MML3 should still exist, obviously, and if it requires me to become a billionaire so I can waste money on it so be it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:49
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Game delays are severe issues any time they happen. There is not a simple measurable "they lost this many sales" response but it generally is never good for the company and can turn games into jokes and injure the brand. That isn't to say Nintendo is entirely right to keep their cards close to the chest but "what's the harm in it?" is easily disprovable from the reaction every time a major delay is announced. Pikmin 3 in particular hurt very badly. It's a very niche game, but if it was out in time for the launch then it still would have sold to all those early adopters ASAP just on hype and it being a game from Nintendo. With the delay fans are burned and don't pick up a Wii U right away, and by the time it came out no one not already a heavy Nintendo fan was going to pick it up. Watch Dogs delay didn't surprise me after Splinter Cell tanked and AC4 didn't do so hot, I actually wouldn't even be surprised if PS3/360 Watch Dogs were canned depending on console sales over the rest of the holiday. Companies needed to know yesterday what system they want to focus their AAA budgets on and the writing's been on the wall all year that people are bored with the PS3/360. On top of that I honestly don't think anyone, even Sony in general, expected the PS4 to launch on 11/15/13, assuming a spring 2014 or even holiday 2014 release. This generation going on so long put the industry in an new position where people were getting bored of same engine sequel #43 and Nintendo probably figured they'd have the entire year of 2013 free to relax and have the system that's cheaper than the competition, plays Mario games, and also has Call of Duty/etc. covered. Then the 360 got that drop to $250 and Sony suddenly has the PS4 coming out at $399.99. You can tell Microsoft was equally blindsided and Sony, intelligently, offset their own lack of games for PS4 by heavily hyping up and securing lots of indie titles.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:49
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:Nintendo only got burned when they did poo poo like showing us this super early and then giving us Wind Waker. And the strategy worked a lot better than their current one. I think the consensus was people thinking it was gonna be like the sports game, packed in with every console, not necessarily a 50 dollar title. I still feel they can put out a really amazing Mario title, the problem is the last couple ones just very devoid of creativity, you can point to most earlier Mario titles and see the change in aesthetics, enemies and so forth, the massive changes from console to console, then you got the NSMB stuff which just looks like easy to produce crap, I mean compare Sunshine to Galaxy, now compare Galaxy to NSMB U, or hell even 3D land, it just doesn't look that interesting or unique, which is generally something you could depend on Nintendo delivering.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 23:57
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:I'm bothered that we're nearly upon 2014 and Nintendo hasn't said a word about what their plans are beyond this holiday season other than what they've said at E3, which is frankly paltry. I mean if 2014 is just DKC, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, and X, then that's a horrible year. Those may be awesome games, but that's a terrible, terrible year, if you have just 4 major releases. Especially considering there is no third party support. You're forgetting 2014's killer app, Yoshi's Epic Yarn. Your point still stands.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2013 00:00
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:Wasn't the general consensus on Nintendoland that it was a joke when they announced it? What was really the joke was that Nintendo thought it was a good idea to end their E3 conference with it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2013 00:33
|
|
|
Alteisen posted:I think the consensus was people thinking it was gonna be like the sports game, packed in with every console, not necessarily a 50 dollar title. Wait, Nintendoland wasn't a pack-in?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2013 00:36
|
|
|
OatmealRaisin posted:Wait, Nintendoland wasn't a pack-in? It wasn't for the WiiU basic bundle.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2013 00:37
|
|
|
TaurusOxford posted:It wasn't for the WiiU basic bundle. Oh, well, anyone who bought the basic bundle had more issues than just not getting a pack-in game. I'm shocked they even sold that thing as an option.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2013 00:39
|
|
|
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-02/nintendo-seen-missing-target-as-sony-microsoft-sales-dwarf-wii-u.html Is bloomberg writing about Nintendo's woes significant? I don't know since I don't keep up with this stuff.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2013 00:45
|
|
|
OatmealRaisin posted:Wait, Nintendoland wasn't a pack-in? Considering that you can now buy a Deluxe with a game for $300 it almost seems like they just jacked the price up $50 to account for the game and the name Deluxe.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2013 00:45
|
|
|
Alteisen posted:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-02/nintendo-seen-missing-target-as-sony-microsoft-sales-dwarf-wii-u.html Nah, been pretty normal since 2011. quote:
And that has also been standard since then as well. My surging demand for these games increases.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2013 00:52
|
|
|
Surging demand to play ports of button-based retro games using touch-only controls.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2013 00:55
|
|
|
Supercar Gautier posted:Surging demand to play ports of button-based retro games using touch-only controls. Is it still only the retro games people like Jason Rubin are asking for at this point? That always seemed like it was just a way to get the conversation flowing. Then once they have their back catalog on the machine, they'll start asking for newer games developed specifically for the mobile systems. I'm surprised there hasn't been an article saying how much money Link Between Worlds would potentially make if it was on mobile devices and you could just pay Ravio real world money to get permanent weapons. Or buy a potion that made your purple meter recharge twice as fast, because in this hypothetical version the meter only refills fully every five minutes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2013 01:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 20:50 |
|
|
So, a week ago when Mario debuted in Japan, it took a modest amount of sales and the number two positions. But, a number of people said the game would hold its place and be a long seller. Well, Lightning Returns retains its top position. Mario, meanwhile, has slid to #7.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2013 01:02
|
|