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Intruder posted:I don't quite agree on this. Newton is a trainwreck, but I think you're pretty solid at the rest of the positions going forward. Ben Jones will do nicely in replacing busted rear end Wade Smith and Brandon Brooks is filling in nicely at RG as well. They're not on the level of the 2011 line but RT is the only real glaring need on the line at the moment, and hopefully Quessenberry's return from injury will address that. If not, you can probably get a decent RT. I think Kubiak just falls in love with his guys and gets stubborn and that's why Newton is still around But the point isn't that you'd draft a RT #1 overall. Rather, you'd trade down and get a RT, plus additional talent with your little bushel of picks.
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Dec 3, 2013 21:29
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Intruder posted:I just can't imagine taking a RT #1 overall (although I guess the Chiefs did it) Unless Houston doesn't believe Bridgewater is the right QB for them, I can't see them going another direction.
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Dec 3, 2013 21:34
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Quest For Glory II posted:Also fyi this draft is nowhere near as deep at QB if Mariota and Hundley go back. You're looking at a scenario where Manziel and McCarron become desperation first round picks when they might be 2nd day picks in most drafts. Instead of a top 3 of Bridgewater, Mariota and Hundley, you get a top 3 of maybe Bridgewater, Carr, and Manziel. I think most teams would be better off taking the generational talent and grabbing Boyd or Mettenberger in the second. Or Manziel if Mariota and Hundley declare.
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Dec 3, 2013 21:42
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bhsman posted:You're not the only one playing the odds, though; I genuinely think that adding Clowney and improving the defense WHILE grabbing a second-round QB like Boyd. Are we really, truly hamstringing ourselves by giving the defense another playmaker while drafting the guy who overcame LSU's 2012 defense with the help of our first round wideout that we drafted last year? I doubt Boyd will be there in the second. Look at how inflated QBs have gotten in the past few drafts. EJ loving Manuel went in the first last year. Grozz Nuy posted:The best QB in this draft isn't Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck, he's a smart, reasonably toolsy 21 year old who's had occasional struggles against pretty soft college competition. There's absolutely great upside there (what you call 'the best chance'), but let's say we compare him to say, Sam Bradford, another solid but not excellent #1 QB prospect. Is the disparity between Bradford and Case Keenum really worth passing up the opportunity to add a guy like Clowney to your team, especially when Keenum is dirt cheap and doesn't really prevent you from making different plans for the position in the future like spending #1 overall would? When did I claim they were made in a vacuum? Or do you just love intentionally misconstruing my point? I'm not saying anything wildly crazy nor is it specific to Bridgewater vs Clowney, although personally I'd prefer Bridgewater. SAS always does this, year in and year out. No one has any idea how a QB is going to perform when they get drafted. I certainly didn't anticipate Cam Newton being a decent passer nor did I expect Matt Ryan to be so consistently solid so claiming that Bridgewater is going to be Bradford-esque is useless since he'll be surrounded by wildly different talent and coaching than Bradford, plus Bradford was in some ways a much better prospect so it's not even apt comparison of skillsets. I'll say it again since it seems to be continuously twisted. My logic is fairly simple. A QB is the most valuable position bar none therefore if I were running a team with no QB that's what I'd be going for above all else and the best chance at hitting on a QB is to draft the best one available. Again, obviously that's dependent on each team's board and style of offense, but if Bridgewater is your #1 QB and he's available then I think that you take him over anyone else. Of course if as a team you decide that Carr is the best QB on the board and he'll be available late in the 1st/early 2nd then obviously priorities change. Quest For Glory II posted:"Pick which generational talent gets you to the playoffs" is the dumbest poo poo I've ever read. I'm sorry. Don't be obtuse, it's to illustrate what should be a widely accepted view at this point which is QBs are the most valuable position on the field. I don't particularly love that the rule changes have wildly inflated their worth to a team but the fact that SAS still wants to cling to the old goon obsession with building the lines forces me into first establishing that point before moving on. EDIT: Anyway I'm tired of arguing about it. I don't expect everyone/anyone to agree but stop intentionally misconstruing the point. You think a generational DE is more valuable than the best QB on the board who is clearly not a generational talent. Ok, I get that. I disagree. I've watched my lovely team do absolutely nothing other than the 4 year stretch when we had multiple HoF and a few edge cases on the same defense and even then it took a ton of luck to get a SB. The rules have changed since then and I'd like to see more than a few years of consistent playoff appearances from my team. There is only one way to get that, other than having Ozzie be your GM. As a fan of a team who's best QB is either Brad Johnson or an old Jeff Garcia it's frustrating to watch this team bounce between mediocre/above average to utter poo poo based on a few non QB injuries since we need every single part of the team working perfectly to overcome our QB deficiency. That frustration quickly gets worse when I watch the Packers or the Colts or the loving Pats or (recently) the Saints and watch them overcome injuries to their star non-QB players or their entire defense and yet still be in playoff contention. I'm with Kawalimus. I just want a good QB and if that means drafting one every loving year so be it. Relentlessboredomm fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Dec 3, 2013 |
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Dec 3, 2013 22:05
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The Texans should draft Clowney and get Jimmy Garoppolo in the 4th or whatever.
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Dec 3, 2013 22:30
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We need to just trade the #1 overall pick for Luck
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Dec 3, 2013 22:32
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Declan MacManus posted:I think Carr and Fales are neck and neck as far as mid round MWC prospects go Carr has a better arm than Fales. Fales runs a slightly more complex system. Pick your ridiculous scout poison.
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Dec 3, 2013 22:47
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Declan MacManus posted:I think Carr and Fales are neck and neck as far as mid round MWC prospects go Having seen both of them play against my lovely college team, Carr is leagues better.
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Dec 3, 2013 22:48
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KIM JONG TRILL posted:The Texans should draft Clowney and get Jimmy Garoppolo in the 4th or whatever. Tyler Tettleton Time
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Dec 3, 2013 23:13
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Tajh Boyd improved a lot over his college career, particularly with becoming more mobile and elusive. However, he remains mediocre to downright terrible under consistent pressure. He's got all the physical tools, though, so I can certainly see someone reaching for him.
RumbleFish fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Dec 3, 2013 |
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Dec 3, 2013 23:20
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So twitter/Oregon blogs are saying Mariota is going to stick around for his junior season. Did his stock take that much of a hit with his health problems and poor performances against Stanford/Arizona or is he leaving a lot of money on the table and hoping that Winston is a rapist and he'll be the top QB in the 2015 draft?
punched my v-card at camp fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Dec 3, 2013 |
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Dec 3, 2013 23:24
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gently caress it, everybody pile into the Clowney Carr. 
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Dec 3, 2013 23:25
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 Mariota is staying http://t.co/Zq8RuwzEco
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Dec 3, 2013 23:26
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Benne posted:
Maybe he wants his degree in case he busts in the nfl.
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Dec 3, 2013 23:28
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Mariota will only be a junior next year, you guys
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Dec 3, 2013 23:29
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I avoided this thread for a few weeks with faint hopes of a playoff birth but now that I've snapped back to reality every time I read a mock draft with us selecting Johnny Football I die a little inside. I just hope they can shore up the porous defense somehow. Clowney is sadly not likely to fall to the Raiders unless the Redskins and Falcons start winning some games. Should I try to get excited about that UCLA linebacker?
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Dec 3, 2013 23:35
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SteelAngel2000 posted:Having seen both of them play against my lovely college team, Carr is leagues better. This is a wrong opinion  Carr is probably a little better, but it's largely a question of supporting cast at this point. Fales has also been bounced around between several offensive systems. I'm also incredibly biased.
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Dec 3, 2013 23:40
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Benne posted:Mariota will only be a junior next year, you guys Well yeah but he redshirted. He has a lot of improving to do and isn't near NFL ready now. Good decision to stay,.
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Dec 3, 2013 23:52
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Arschlochkind posted:gently caress it, everybody pile into the Clowney Carr. If they take Carr I hope he gets #8 so everyone can recycle their jerseys
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Dec 4, 2013 00:01
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Rotoworld now projects Carr to be the 2nd QB taken in the draft.
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Dec 4, 2013 00:02
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vaginal culture posted:Well yeah but he redshirted. He has a lot of improving to do and isn't near NFL ready now. Good decision to stay,. Probably doesn't want to risk going to the Jaguars
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Dec 4, 2013 00:05
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What's the latest word on Hundley? I know he's a sophomore too, but haven't there been rumors that his father has reached out to agents? I'm hoping that he'll declare, just because he's another QB who should be drafted early, but he likely isn't going to be a day one starter.
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Dec 4, 2013 00:07
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Aniki posted:What's the latest word on Hundley? I know he's a sophomore too, but haven't there been rumors that his father has reached out to agents? I'm hoping that he'll declare, just because he's another QB who should be drafted early, but he likely isn't going to be a day one starter. Everything I've heard is that he's staying at UCLA
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Dec 4, 2013 00:09
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Mora just confirmed that he's not going to Washington and signed a 6-year extension so yeah, I think Hundley stays
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Dec 4, 2013 00:15
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So, in my estimation, that leaves the top quarterbacks in the draft as, in rough order of quality, Bridgewater, Manziel (unless he doesn't stay), Carr, Boyd, Mettenberger, Murray, McCarron, and from there, a lot of long-term prospects that'll be drafted too early. I reiterate my support for Manziel going to the Vikings (even if it's in the first round) because his ceiling is Tarkenton and that's pretty neat.
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Dec 4, 2013 00:29
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Manziel going top 5 y'all
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Dec 4, 2013 00:31
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Doctor Candiru posted:So, in my estimation, that leaves the top quarterbacks in the draft as, in rough order of quality, Bridgewater, Manziel (unless he doesn't stay), Carr, Boyd, Mettenberger, Murray, McCarron, and from there, a lot of long-term prospects that'll be drafted too early. McCarron is starting to pick up a lot of support not just as a first round prospect but as a potential guy above even Bridgewater. I don't really get it either, but I haven't gotten a lot of these lately!
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Dec 4, 2013 00:55
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jeffersonlives posted:McCarron is starting to pick up a lot of support not just as a first round prospect but as a potential guy above even Bridgewater. I don't really get it either, but I haven't gotten a lot of these lately! If the Jaguars draft McCarron 1st/2nd overall due to moxie I will laugh forever, even if he ends up owning.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:16
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jeffersonlives posted:McCarron is starting to pick up a lot of support not just as a first round prospect but as a potential guy above even Bridgewater. I don't really get it either, but I haven't gotten a lot of these lately! I vaguely remember a page on Football Outsiders or somewhere where they broke down the advanced statistics for the college careers of the last few years of quarterbacks. Luck was at the top, although they wrote that if they had included Wilson (which they didn't because his numbers were too high to be accurate or something) he would've been there -- meanwhile, Ponder and Gabbert were in the red. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Have they done those analyses for the upcoming class?
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Dec 4, 2013 01:26
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Wait until Stephen Morris wins the combine and gets drafted 3 rounds too early!
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Dec 4, 2013 01:35
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TheBizzness posted:Wait until Stephen Morris wins the combine and gets drafted 3 rounds too early! Noooooo don't let anyone know Morris exists, he's our secret option if we can't get Boyd in the second. 
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Dec 4, 2013 01:36
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Doctor Candiru posted:I vaguely remember a page on Football Outsiders or somewhere where they broke down the advanced statistics for the college careers of the last few years of quarterbacks. Luck was at the top, although they wrote that if they had included Wilson (which they didn't because his numbers were too high to be accurate or something) he would've been there -- meanwhile, Ponder and Gabbert were in the red. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Have they done those analyses for the upcoming class? Wilson was also very hard to project from his senior year at Wisconsin because of the strong power-run offense. He looked fantastic all year but also was throwing in situations all year with 8 men in the box.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:36
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So who is going to be this year's "measurables" QB? As in some QB that is like 6'5" or taller and 250+ lbs that wasn't terrible in college, but wasn't that great either that GM's all think they can coach into an amazing QB. I guess what I am asking, is who is this years Josh Freeman?
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Dec 4, 2013 01:38
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swickles posted:So who is going to be this year's "measurables" QB? As in some QB that is like 6'5" or taller and 250+ lbs that wasn't terrible in college, but wasn't that great either that GM's all think they can coach into an amazing QB. I guess what I am asking, is who is this years Josh Freeman? Boyd/Morris could be that guy that surprises with their 40 times, maybe Bridgewater as well. Mettenberger won't excel (especially if his knee is still hosed up - though he has a better chance of making it than Murray) but scouts should like his arm strength.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:40
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swickles posted:So who is going to be this year's "measurables" QB? As in some QB that is like 6'5" or taller and 250+ lbs that wasn't terrible in college, but wasn't that great either that GM's all think they can coach into an amazing QB. I guess what I am asking, is who is this years Josh Freeman? Logan Thomas could be anything from a first round quarterback to a late round tight end depending on how he works out.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:40
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It's without a doubt Logan Thomas. Hideous stats and performance, ridiculous measurables.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:43
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jeffersonlives posted:Logan Thomas could be anything from a first round quarterback to a late round tight end depending on how he works out. Oh man, yeah Logan Thomas is a great choice. Also Morris is only 6'2", and was last clocked in the 4.6 range. Still pretty good, but nothing that stands out.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:43
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Quest For Glory II posted:Rotoworld now projects Carr to be the 2nd QB taken in the draft. Poor Tajh Boyd.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:44
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Quest For Glory II posted:It's without a doubt Logan Thomas. Hideous stats and performance, ridiculous measurables. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrFMmtcTd20 This video includes two guys saying that they'd have a hard time putting him lower than third on their QB board last year, and that he'd offer good value in the late 1st round if he had declared last year. While they say this, there is a highlight video of Logan Thomas that consists entirely of incomplete passes and interceptions. It was put together like the video guy thought they were going to say that he should go undrafted. This video is like the distilled essence of what GMs must go through when they make picks on nothing but measurables. The entire video is talking about all of the things he does wrong, without even a single video clip of him completing a pass, and the only positive things said the entire time are that he is very large and vague references to his upside. And then they say he's a first round pick 
Inaction Jackson fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 02:24
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Huh. Walter football has 4 QBs going in the top 10. Are teams really going to be that desperate for Carr or Hundley or Manziel?
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