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bobkatt013 posted:Holy jesus christ the next Superman film is going to be a clusterfuck of epic proportions. They are not going to be able to introduce all the new characters and be able to focus on Superman and his cast. This seems like such a bad bad idea. They are going to need an amazing director and writer to do this right. You don't need to introduce Batman or even Wonder Woman to audiences. They know who they are.
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Dec 4, 2013 20:52
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We don't really know Been Affleck's Batman or Bruce Wayne and what they are like at all. And Wonder Woman hasn't been popular in the mainstream since the seventies.
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Dec 4, 2013 20:55
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Waterhaul posted:You don't need to introduce Batman or even Wonder Woman to audiences. They know who they are. They might since the most famous Wonder Woman is the one from the 70s tv show and they are going to try to show how this Batman is diffrent from the Nolan one.
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Dec 4, 2013 20:56
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Who all is in the movie now? Nightwing was rumored but turned out not to be in, same with Flash. So it is Batman, Superman, Lois, WW.
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Dec 4, 2013 20:56
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StumblyWumbly posted:Who all is in the movie now? Nightwing was rumored but turned out not to be in, same with Flash. So it is Batman, Superman, Lois, WW.
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Dec 4, 2013 20:59
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bobkatt013 posted:They might since the most famous Wonder Woman is the one from the 70s tv show and they are going to try to show how this Batman is diffrent from the Nolan one. Hi, I'm Wonder Woman and I'm from this island and can punch people really hard and don't like whomever the bad guy is.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:04
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I have no idea how they are going to be juggling WW in addition to a new Batman. I guess this is really more of a Justice League lead-in than a Superman movie.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:08
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I wonder if it'll be a montage sequence of the aftermath of Supes arrival rather than a focus on WW, Flash and Nightwing or whatever. Like colorful cameos. Focus on Superman and Batman.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:15
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Maybe Wonder Woman never actually shows up in the new movie and you spend the whole film waiting for Gadot.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:16
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This is brilliant on the part of WB. Stick with me here, as this goes a little crazy. Wonder Woman is essentially the WB/DC property that could realistically pull off the female solo superhero movie. (OK, there was Catwoman, barely. As far as I know, the character was named Catwoman and that's where all the similarities end). Anyway, even in these early stages, it seems pretty clear that the Sperfriends movie is going to come out well in advance of any Marvel solo female movie and so it's going to be the first movie to feature a major female character. Marvel's pretty good about having female characters in the films, but in no way have they shown someone on the familiarity level as WW. Here's why it's brilliant: If it fails, it will probably be blamed on the Wonder Woman parts. Whether that's because those parts will be less fleshed out, the actress isn't very good, or the portrayal is weak, who can say. It doesn't matter, because she'll be blamed. Even if she's the best part of the movie, she'll be the scapegoat. "Boys don't care about WW." "Fanboys don't make up enough of the movie going population to make up for it." "Women don't make up enough in action movie/super hero ticket sales." "We did the exact same thing we did for male super hero movies and it didn't work when we added a woman, that must be the problem." If it fails, they get to blame the woman, and turn around and say "Well, we gave people a female superhero, and they voted with their money, and they told us they don't want female superhero movies, so we won't make any more. Don't bother asking again." They get to blame the movie going public for their bomb and they get to act frustrated and huffy when someone asks about a solo WW movie. If it succeeds, now they get to triumphantly shout about how they were the first to have a blockbuster movie featuring a female lead, and aren't they progressive and hey, Marvel sure hasn't done that. "We decided to listen to our fans and give them something that they wanted for so long. And it was great. Everyone loved it." And then they can...still not do a solo WW movie, because the risk is too great. "But hey, if you want to see WW on the big screen again just go see Superfriends 2." Now that being said, I might be interested in a solo WW movie myself, if they treat it much like the Thor movies. Here you have this character who comes from a far away land, who has been running around with characters from myth and legend. They are transported to the modern world where they comically interact with things they are unfamiliar with, and meet the love interest that sets their heart all a flutter. Blah blah *powerful villain* blah blah * prove yourself worthy *blah blah* happy ending. I would enjoy the hell out of a gender swapped/mythology swapped Thor, written to the same level. That would have my rear end in a seat opening weekend. Waterhaul posted:Hi, I'm Wonder Woman and I'm from this island and can punch people really hard and don't like whomever the bad guy is.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:20
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greatn posted:Maybe Wonder Woman never actually shows up in the new movie and you spend the whole film waiting for Gadot.  This movie is going to be such a mess. How do you introduce the new Batman and also an island full of magic superwomen, and also have the time to give the film an actual story? Will she still have an invisible jet? I have so many questions.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:46
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CzarChasm posted:This is brilliant on the part of WB. With DC's non-Batman films being terrible to bland, I'm betting on failure. Then Marvel can introduce Captain Marvel in Wave three and blow them out of the water again.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:47
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Between this and Spider-Man 2 I don't know how people aren't freaking out about Guardians. It's has (at least) 3 villains AND is introducing an entire team of new heroes with their own backstory without the bonus of everybody knowing who Batman and Wonder Woman are.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:49
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Waterhaul posted:Between this and Spider-Man 2 I don't know how people aren't freaking out about Guardians. It's has (at least) 3 villains AND is introducing an entire team of new heroes with their own backstory without the bonus of everybody knowing who Batman and Wonder Woman are. There is a diffrence between a team movie which Guardians is and this which is suppose to be sequel to Man of Steel not a backdoor pilot for a Superman and Wonder Woman movie. It just seems that its going to be worse than Iron Man 2 with Black Widow and Hawkeye.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:51
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Team films are different. Nobody complained about X men for instance by saying you can't possibly have a movie with Wolverine and Rogue and Cyclops and Jean Grey and Storm and Prof X and Toad and Mystique and Magneto and Wildbeast it's just too many characters.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:54
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bobkatt013 posted:There is a diffrence between a team movie which Guardians is and this which is suppose to be sequel to Man of Steel not a backdoor pilot for a Superman and Wonder Woman movie. It just seems that its going to be worse than Iron Man 2 with Black Widow and Hawkeye. This is a team film not just a Man of Steel sequel. It's why they've been working on a dual Batman/Superman title and not calling it Man of Steel 2.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:56
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CzarChasm posted:This is brilliant on the part of WB. I thought you were going to say "if it succeeds they'll have done the first great superheroine role and if it fails, they'll have properly poisoned the well for Marvel's possible introduction of Carol Danvers."
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Dec 4, 2013 22:14
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Yea the lack of imagination going around this thread is amazing. Between the "this movie is going to suck because Wonder Woman is now in it" and the "I don't know how they are going to juggle both BATMAN and WONDER WOMAN" it seems like people have written off the movie before it has even began to film. Here is what I imagine will happen. In the aftermath of Man of Steel, Bruce is approached by Luthor into inventing some earth defense mechanism. I am pretty sure audiences will know who the gently caress Bruce Wayne is. As for Wonder Woman there are various different ways that can go into introducing the character. Hello America, after seeing all the destruction man has done I have come to spread a message of peace, or now that superhumans have arrived, my island has sent me to investigate whether there is a threat to our peaceful homeland, or...well whatever the gently caress they want to do, really. As for introducing Wonder Woman in a Superman/Justice Leage/whatever movie, it's just WB playing safe. See how audiences react to the character instead of giving her a solo movie and hoping it does well. If audiences react positively, we might see a Wonder Woman movie down the line, and if not..meh.
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Dec 4, 2013 22:15
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Waterhaul posted:This is a team film not just a Man of Steel sequel. It's why they've been working on a dual Batman/Superman title and not calling it Man of Steel 2. I have always heard it called Untitled Man of Steel sequel.
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Dec 4, 2013 22:16
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Madkal posted:Yea the lack of imagination going around this thread is amazing. Between the "this movie is going to suck because Wonder Woman is now in it" and the "I don't know how they are going to juggle both BATMAN and WONDER WOMAN" it seems like people have written off the movie before it has even began to film. It's not that it's impossible, it's that the movie coming before it couldn't even handle juggling Superman by itself. Also I'm not worried about Guardians because did you even see Super?
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Dec 4, 2013 22:20
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I'm guessing there will be quick shots of Wonder Woman, the Flash, etc. in their respective settings with their best 'looking off into the future' pose during a voice over by Superman saying something about the world needing heroes to inspire hope and blah blah blah. Then a cut to black with the Justice League logo, and the credits roll. All with a booming Zimmer soundtrack, of course. Edit: VV Not if they're signing multi-picture agreements. Nick Fury is only in Iron Man for a minute tops but he signed on for something like 9 movies before that. bowser fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 22:23
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bowser posted:I'm guessing there will be quick shots of Wonder Woman, the Flash, etc. in their respective settings with their best 'looking off into the future' pose during a voice over by Superman saying something about the world needing heroes to inspire hope and blah blah blah. Then a cut to black with the Justice League logo, and the credits roll. If that's all it's going to be, there's no point in casting someone. Something like that could change easily between movies.
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Dec 4, 2013 22:26
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Lobok posted:I thought you were going to say "if it succeeds they'll have done the first great superheroine role and if it fails, they'll have properly poisoned the well for Marvel's possible introduction of Carol Danvers." Actually, I'm pretty sure this is the best news for Marvel re: Carol. DC's gone and put themselves at the front of the line for First Superheroine and everybody's going to be eyeing them super-close. Pass or fail, Marvel's going to be able to look at what critics had to say about Wonder Woman and make an effort to not make the same mistakes. Even better, unless DC just totally knocks it out of the park people probably aren't going to be looking as closely at Marvel because it's just the second effort which takes pressure off them. If DC fails that's best of all, because the bar will be set crazy low letting Marvel just leap right over it pretty easily and come out looking fantastic for it.
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Dec 4, 2013 23:14
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I don't mind putting WW in the movie, it's up to the writers to make it work. I just personally think Gadot isn't the right fit for the role.
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Dec 4, 2013 23:22
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:Actually, I'm pretty sure this is the best news for Marvel re: Carol. DC's gone and put themselves at the front of the line for First Superheroine and everybody's going to be eyeing them super-close. Pass or fail, Marvel's going to be able to look at what critics had to say about Wonder Woman and make an effort to not make the same mistakes. Even better, unless DC just totally knocks it out of the park people probably aren't going to be looking as closely at Marvel because it's just the second effort which takes pressure off them. If DC fails that's best of all, because the bar will be set crazy low letting Marvel just leap right over it pretty easily and come out looking fantastic for it. It isn't a first at all though. Depending on how the film turns out, she's either going to be part of an ensemble cast or she'll be a supporting character. X-Men has already done that in almost every installment, Marvel has Black Widow and Sif from Thor, even the Batman films have done Catwoman more than once. The new ground to break would be having a big budget superhero film where the main character is a woman, and that's not going to happen because hollywood is sexist.  Edit: Also Wonder Woman is going to be in The Lego Movie years before Batman V Supes, so now I don't even know what all the fuss is about. Red Bones fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 23:49
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Lobok posted:I thought you were going to say "if it succeeds they'll have done the first great superheroine role and if it fails, they'll have properly poisoned the well for Marvel's possible introduction of Carol Danvers." Originally I meant to add that. Specifically "poisoning the well" for other super heroines. But I don't know if that would really be true. Marvel and WB are both taking different approaches to how they do super hero movies. One (so far) hasn't really seemed to influence how the other has actually executed their end product. WB clearly saw that Marvel had huge success with the Avengers movie, but seems to be taking away the wrong lesson. Rather than copying the Marvel "Universe Building" method, they seem to be opting for the "Cram every property into a single movie". So at this point, even if WB torpedoed a solo WW movie, I think Marvel is strong enough and been doing well enough that they wouldn't give a poo poo about how badly DC hosed it up. Look at Green Lantern. The three word description for non-comic people is Magic Space Cops. The closest Marvel property is probably GOTG (Avengers in Space), and the general failure of GL isn't slowing the GOTG train down any. Really, GOTG is pretty close to the way WB is doing their Superfriends movie. An ensamble cast and a wacky premise, featuring characters that 90% of the general population has never heard of. Really, it's an even bigger risk in that regard, because most people could probably name characters in Superfriends and even know some of their stories. I read comics and I can tell you approximately gently caress all about any of the characters in GOTG. RyuujinBlueZ posted:Actually, I'm pretty sure this is the best news for Marvel re: Carol. DC's gone and put themselves at the front of the line for First Superheroine and everybody's going to be eyeing them super-close. Pass or fail, Marvel's going to be able to look at what critics had to say about Wonder Woman and make an effort to not make the same mistakes. Even better, unless DC just totally knocks it out of the park people probably aren't going to be looking as closely at Marvel because it's just the second effort which takes pressure off them. If DC fails that's best of all, because the bar will be set crazy low letting Marvel just leap right over it pretty easily and come out looking fantastic for it. This pretty much sums up my feelings on Marvel doing a solo female hero movie. They don't (and shouldn't) give two shits about how WB runs their business.
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Dec 4, 2013 23:58
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Waterhaul posted:You don't need to introduce Batman or even Wonder Woman to audiences. They know who they are. You don't need to introduce Batman, sure... but that's because he has a shitload of movies about him. I'd argue most people don't know any specifics about Wonder Woman. At all. They have no idea. She transcends general superhero tropes like Thor, since her background is heavily influenced by Greek mythology. Pretty sure like 99% of moviegoers have no idea where Wonder Woman comes from and why she can do what she does. While I'm not against the casting of Gal Gadot (I think she'll be fine), I'm apprehensive about not introducing Wonder Woman to the masses via an origin story considering the character has never been in any kind of feature film.
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Dec 5, 2013 00:06
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teagone posted:You don't need to introduce Batman, sure... but that's because he has a shitload of movies about him. I'd argue most people don't know any specifics about Wonder Woman. At all. They have no idea. She transcends general superhero tropes like Thor, since her background is heavily influenced by Greek mythology. Pretty sure like 99% of moviegoers have no idea where Wonder Woman comes from and why she can do what she does. While I'm not against the casting of Gal Gadot (I think she'll be fine), I'm apprehensive about not introducing Wonder Woman to the masses via an origin story considering the character has never been in any kind of feature film. How much origin story do you need that can't be explained through dialog?
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Dec 5, 2013 00:12
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Madkal posted:How much origin story do you need that can't be explained through dialog? Hand-waving her origin through dialog would be hilarious. "Oh, hey so you know, I'm from Themyscira, a mythical and invisible paradise island where my mother is Queen of the Amazons. I was born from clay" or if the character is of the New 52 flavor, "I am the bastard daughter of Zeus and am a demigoddess". No big deal I guess. Simple enough to be explained through dialogue. Haha, what.
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Dec 5, 2013 00:16
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I think part of the issue is that Wonder Woman deserves her own movie, and a lot of people have been waiting for freaking ever for her to get her own movie, and instead she's being shoehorned into the sequel to a (bad) Superman movie.
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Dec 5, 2013 00:16
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Madkal posted:How much origin story do you need that can't be explained through dialog? They're not going to explain a main character's origin story through dialogue, come on. But I don't think it's something that needs to be longer than the prologue of LotR, either. I really don't think it's a big deal.
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Dec 5, 2013 00:19
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Hakkesshu posted:They're not going to explain a main character's origin story through dialogue, come on. But I don't think it's something that needs to be longer than the prologue of LotR, either. I really don't think it's a big deal. "How and why does Wonder Woman come to the world of man" is a big enough plot point to warrant an entire film. Sure, they can do a whole prologue that leads up to the birth of Diana, but her going from sheltered princess to an amazon warrior badass is not something that can't just be introduced and have audiences run with it. Especially in a movie that is suppose to be a direct sequel to Man of Steel. The character has a lot of baggage, and her mythos is extensive enough that shoving her into Man of Steel 2's plot without a proper setup could be bad. I like the casting choice, I'm wary of her being in MoS 2. Hopefully she just shows up at the end for a quick cameo, but something tells me they wouldn't announce the casting if she only had like a 2 minute bit. teagone fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 00:23
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Marvel also has plenty of time to put out a movie about Carol Danvers, Gamora, Moon Dragon, Black Widow, whoever by themselves before a solo WW movie would be made. BvS won't be until 2015, and a WW solo wouldn't be until 2017 at the earliest. Marvel could have any of those others out in 2016 or 2017.
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Dec 5, 2013 00:28
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teagone posted:"How and why does Wonder Woman come to the world of man" is a big enough plot point to warrant an entire film. Sure, they can do a whole prologue that leads up to the birth of Diana, but her going from sheltered princess to an amazon warrior badass is not something that can't just be introduced and have audiences run with it. Especially in a movie that is suppose to be a direct sequel to Man of Steel. The character has a lot of baggage, and her mythos is extensive enough that shoving her into Man of Steel 2's plot without a proper setup could be bad. I like the casting choice, I'm wary of her being in MoS 2. Hopefully she just shows up at the end for a quick cameo, but something tells me they wouldn't announce the casting if she only had like a 2 minute bit. Why she shows up in the world of man can directly tie in to Superman. She doesn't need an origin story divorced from it. Whether you love it or hate it Man of Steel is clearly supposed to be seen as the starting point of DC's movie universe. The writers can have it that the Amazonians see now as the time to introduce themselves to the world, or that superhumans can pose a possible threat to them, or that they are under attack and need help from this "Superman" or for a dozen other possible reasons.
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Dec 5, 2013 00:30
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Madkal posted:Why she shows up in the world of man can directly tie in to Superman. She doesn't need an origin story divorced from it. Whether you love it or hate it Man of Steel is clearly supposed to be seen as the starting point of DC's movie universe. The writers can have it that the Amazonians see now as the time to introduce themselves to the world, or that superhumans can pose a possible threat to them, or that they are under attack and need help from this "Superman" or for a dozen other possible reasons. I'm all for Man of Steel being the fixed point from which DC launches their shared cinematic universe from. I just think Wonder Woman is a character that needed her own film before being introduced as an established figure in another. I guess they could always do like a prologue to a standalone Wonder Woman film that shows her origin, but the film itself takes place after the events of the Man of Steel 2. Either way, my expectations have been lowered with this announcement. Still dig the casting though.
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Dec 5, 2013 00:57
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My big fear is that WW will get saddled with whatever origin and story fits the movie and not be her own character.
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Dec 5, 2013 01:26
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I think people are thinking it as a problem since it's supposed to be "Man of Steel 2". If this was just Superman/Batman and there were plans for a proper Man of Steel 2, I think there would be less freaking out.
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Dec 5, 2013 01:47
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Isn't there a rumor going around that Doomsday is going to be in this thing? It's going to be a clusterfuck, that's for sure, but a movie that brings Superman and Batman together is going to make money hand over fist. This is coming from someone who HATED Man of Steel. E: I know nothing about Gal Godat and haven't seen anything she's been in. Is she a good actress? The fact that she was actually in the Israeli army sound pretty rad. E the Shaggy fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 01:50
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I am a comic book nerd and I don't know poo poo about Wonder Woman's actual origin. She has some lasso of truth or something? And I'm just guessing she has super strength. But that's the extent of my knowledge.
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Dec 5, 2013 01:56
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notthegoatseguy posted:I am a comic book nerd and I don't know poo poo about Wonder Woman's actual origin. She has some lasso of truth or something? And I'm just guessing she has super strength. But that's the extent of my knowledge. She comes from an island of Amazon women, and her origins are tied heavily with Greek Mythology. In the latest DC continuity, she's actually the daughter of Zeus. Good luck trying to explain all that poo poo in a movie that's already sharing screen time with Supes and Batman duking it out, and a villain.
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Dec 5, 2013 02:03
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