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BrokenKnucklez posted:That is associated with revenue, more places to run longer, bigger, and heavier trains. When it comes to safety, its bare essentials to avoid lawsuits. Are the rail unions not able to negotiate sane hours for their workforce?
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Dec 4, 2013 20:26
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Again, this is why trying to discuss operations with some one that's looking from the outside, is extremely hard to do. I work for a railroad. http://safetydata.fra.dot.gov/officeofsafety/publicsite/Query/inccaus.aspx By cost(Jan 2013-Dec2013): Equipment: 27mil Highway-rail: 11mil Human: 53mil Misc: 56mil Signal: 1.3mil Track: 79mil $53million is not a pretty small number. code:edit: Not trying to get on anyone's case here. I think its silly to get all up in arms over PTC when the railroads don't stand to gain nearly as much as they'd spend implementing it and mishaps can be reduced through other means. Its not like the conductor or engineer(or yardmaster or clerk or dispatcher) union are going to let the class 1s reduce crew size after the implementation of PTC. vains fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 21:10
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Das Volk posted:Are the rail unions not able to negotiate sane hours for their workforce? They'd love to, but the trains still have to run no matter what time they show up. Important locations can't be unattended. Also never underestimate the power of rail company management who will stop at literally nothing to do more with (and for) less, regardless of the human factor and longer term consequences. When pushed, they do not give a poo poo about safety so long as the trains are running and profit is being made. They will bring the most incredulous games and powerplays to remove anyone who gets in their road or does something they don't like.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:11
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(Disclaimer: I don't work in rail)Hyperriker posted:They'd love to, but the trains still have to run no matter what time they show up. Important locations can't be unattended. Sorry, but this sounds like complete bullshit. Aircraft have to fly no matter what time they show up, and flights can't be cancelled, but they make it work. It's certainly very hard and requires whole new branches of mathematics and optimisation algorithms to be invented, but if the government/industry/company decides that crew rest MUST be met- no exceptions- it can be solved. Hyperriker posted:Also never underestimate the power of rail company management who will stop at literally nothing to do more with (and for) less, regardless of the human factor and longer term consequences. This is the real reason right here. Hyperriker posted:When pushed, they do not give a poo poo about safety so long as the trains are running and profit is being made. They will bring the most incredulous games and powerplays to remove anyone who gets in their road or does something they don't like. This would be trivial to fix once you start to pull operators licences (or whatever the rail equivalent of an airline operators certificate is). Once a company can be threatened with no longer legally operating any trains at all, they'll get their poo poo together real quick. My impression of listening to the guys who do this for a living is that all of this has been worried about and argued about and stressed about and eventually solved before in aviation. You guys in rail just need to have sexier and more public crashes. Maybe try to involve some VIP's on the casualty list  edit: actually, the crewing algorithms used in aviation were originally invented for rail. They couldn't find a buyer in the rail industry and so moved to aviation. Captain Postal fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 23:34
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Captain Postal posted:
I think one of the biggest causes of fatigue, and BrokenKnucklez touched on it, is not that mandated rest periods aren't being met, but that the trains are so unpredictable that crews don't have any semblance of a normal sleep schedule. Every day is a swing shift. It's easy enough for a trainmaster to meet a 10-hour rest mandate, you simply put the guys who just got off their train on a do-not-call list for 10 hours. After 10 hours off and 6-8 of them sleeping, it's not too tough to get up and get back to work and do it safely for another 8 or 12 hours. What happens more often than not though, you don't get a call for 18 hours, and by then you've already woken up once and spent a whole day's worth of time awake and doing stuff around the house with your family because by god you're actually there for once. If you're off at 5pm, you can expect your two hour call as soon as 3am the next day.. or maybe noon. Or 3pm. or 10pm. Do you go right to bed once you get home, or do you try to spend time with your family because you're actually there when they're home and awake? Let's say you're in bed by 7pm, 8 hours goes by and you're awake by 3am. You get up, watch some TV, maybe go out to the 24-hour grocery store or take the dog for a walk, maybe see if the wife is interested in messing around. 7am comes around and the sun comes up, you take the kids to school and at 9am you decide to mow the lawn or mess around in the garage or whatever. At 1pm you decide to take a little siesta, still no call. At 3:30 your kids come home from school, and at 4:30 your son has a track meet at the school across town and your wife will divorce the poo poo out of you if you stay home and don't show up. It's now 6pm and you get your two hour call while you're in the stands at the meet, you've been up for 13 of the last 15 hours while being legally OK for service since you've been "resting" for the past 24. I've spent some time riding in the brakeman's chair on the head end of intermodal trains scouting out mud spots in the track for future work... even with a normal shift and sleep schedule, I found it frighteningly easy to nod off in the cab when there's not much to look at besides trees, track, signals, mileposts and mud. The guys made fun of me for a bit after they watched me unsuccessfully trying to fight it off for an hour. NoWake fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 07:38
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MassivelyBuckNegro posted:edit: Not trying to get on anyone's case here. I think its silly to get all up in arms over PTC when the railroads don't stand to gain nearly as much as they'd spend implementing it and mishaps can be reduced through other means. Its not like the conductor or engineer(or yardmaster or clerk or dispatcher) union are going to let the class 1s reduce crew size after the implementation of PTC. It sounds like PTC would be most effective at reducing the sort of accidents the general public cares about. That may not align with the things that cost the railroads the most overall, but it's all the majority of the world sees. I'm pretty sure most passenger rail accidents would have at least been far less likely under full PTC. The general public doesn't really care about freight unless volatile materials and populated areas are involved.
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Dec 5, 2013 07:49
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I get what you're saying, but I think the wider issue is that rail even has split shifts and swing shifts and on-call followed by day shifts then graveyards and so on. It's been known forever that, for example, 5 day shifts followed by 2 night shifts is going to cause serious fatigue issues; the underlying problem is that these patterns are considered "necessary" by the industry. Aviation had the same issue until there was one too many fatigue related crashes and the regulators said "gently caress this noise", sat down and fixed it - and pilots have shifts that start out as a night one that ends 14 hours later but 8 timezones earlier, for example. The catch is that it isn't cheap. SYD-BKK-LHR-SIN-SYD for example takes 4 pilots (to man a 2 person flight crew) and takes ~2 weeks to complete (it's 4 flights of 10 hours each). Rail has a lot of fatigue problems due to tricky rostering, but anyone who says it can't be fixed due to the nature of the job is full of poo poo and should be called on it. It's expensive to fix, maybe prohibitively so, but there is no technical reason why it can't be done if industry is determined to. Captain Postal fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 07:57
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Yeah, of course they could fix it if they wanted to, but that involves having more people on standby and more people trained up to do each and every front line job, and there's no chance in hell they're paying for that without the highest court order in the land, and even then they'll try to cut corners
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Dec 5, 2013 09:20
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Captain Postal posted:Rail has a lot of fatigue problems due to tricky rostering, but anyone who says it can't be fixed due to the nature of the job is full of poo poo and should be called on it. It's expensive to fix, maybe prohibitively so, but there is no technical reason why it can't be done if industry is determined to. Its not that I am saying it can't be done. But you also have to remember commercial flight has only been around for .... 60 years-ish (I am just figuring when the 707 went in service, that seems when commercial aviation was born)? Rail has been around for 175 years (UP just celebrated its 150th year of being in business), so its been kind of a "oh well, this is the way things have been done, been this way for years, to bad, so sad" type thing. FWIW - In West Colton, they have a pool thats broken into pods and they can only be called between certain hours, say 9-11, 11-1, 1-3, and so on. If the crew doesn't get used in those hours, they don't report to work and get the day off till the next day. The extra list still is completely on call with no windows, but the pods have been working well, at least when traffic was slow. Now that traffic has been picking up they did away with the pods. And in my old territory, we had a "smart rest" option to use that would allow us to not be called for 28 hours after tying up on a return trip which generally, made you about ready to go to work 3-4 hours after your smart rest was up. And it worked well, because you knew in 32 hours you were back to work and could adjust yourself to get rested for work. And the carrier did away with it because there was a spike in traffic and instead of bring guys back to work that were furloughed, they just did away with the smart rest and made the current work force work more.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:32
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Is scheduling so sporadic because nobody knows when a train is leaving more than 10 minutes in advance or something? I think the FEC runs everything they do on an advanced schedule, which I've read is part of the reason they're doing their own passenger service, because as far as their operations are concerned it's just another regularly scheduled train.
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Dec 5, 2013 18:24
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FISHMANPET posted:Is scheduling so sporadic because nobody knows when a train is leaving more than 10 minutes in advance or something? MoW Activities, break downs, crews, capacity, etc. Shortlines can get away with running trains on a schedule because they have no traffic. Theres the "usuals" that show up with in 2-3 hours of the same time every day. But coal trains? Leave the mine now, scheduled to arrive 300 miles down the road at X time, but that gets laid back 20 hours because of derailment, or the electrical plant doesn't want the train right away so delay it. Or the connecting railroad is refusing the train, or in places with joint trackage rights there might be a delay. Theres time where I was on a short pool run, its 48 miles. It usually took 8-10 hours to make this run, depending on which yardmaster was working, because theres one that doesn't feel like marking the lists to get the train switched out. And don't tell me its that "union lazy rear end" worker. I did work in a non agreement jobs in the past, and there are just as many lazy asses out there in offices that really do their job half rear end because they just didn't care/lazy/incompetent/etc. They are just way better at covering their laziness up.
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Dec 5, 2013 18:36
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BrokenKnucklez posted:And don't tell me its that "union lazy rear end" worker. I did work in a non agreement jobs in the past, and there are just as many lazy asses out there in offices that really do their job half rear end because they just didn't care/lazy/incompetent/etc. They are just way better at covering their laziness up. I think the real issue with unions these days is they're a politically charged force that only make news when they're being assholes. BART is a great example of this, I'm pretty sure we'll see some voters swinging to the right here just because of those strikes.
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Dec 5, 2013 18:53
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Theres time where I was on a short pool run, its 48 miles. It usually took 8-10 hours to make this run, depending on which yardmaster was working, because theres one that doesn't feel like marking the lists to get the train switched out. I think only the federal government can rival the railroads for lazy and/or incompetent employees(craft or management).
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Dec 5, 2013 19:32
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Das Volk posted:Are the rail unions not able to negotiate sane hours for their workforce? The railroad spends plenty of time complaining about payroll and more than the payroll itself on lobbying to reduce the payroll. The railroad spends lobby money to defund arbitration to avoid negotiation altogether. Negotiate? Maybe if we were in Canada. Captain Postal posted:Sorry, but this sounds like complete bullshit. Aircraft have to fly no matter what time they show up, and flights can't be cancelled, but they make it work. It's certainly very hard and requires whole new branches of mathematics and optimisation algorithms to be invented, but if the government/industry/company decides that crew rest MUST be met- no exceptions- it can be solved. The railroad has tried work rest cycles but has then quibbled about a dollar or two per working man in the "big picture" and cancelled them calling them too expensive. In short the government does what they are told/paid, nobody other than 24 hour news cares about, "crew rest MUST be met- no exceptions-". The age old "Uphill slow, downhill fast, profits first and safety last" will always rule regardless of how many "safety first", "total safety culture", "courage to care" renamed-regurgitated-untrusted-pet-misleading safety projects that the current leadership comes up with. No matter how many mandatory, emotional appeals from the top leadership of each railroad to be "safer" appear, as long as some other part of the railroad (run by the same person) is behaving in these ways, why should we subscribe to these programs? For this reason in particular, I wish I were working for a major league all star hall of famer exec like Warren Buffet instead of the minor league AA guys I am currently. Let me just say this. I doubt there is a single ethicist on the top payroll at any railroad. ok on another note The massive 12,000 foot trains have somehow will not operate with a minimum of locomotives (and thus their respective overtaxed compressors) enough to maintain air to the brakes in -24 F (-31 C) temperatures. Currently there are an unspecified (by me) number of trains parked on our district that cannot move until temperatures get closer to just freezing.
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Dec 7, 2013 01:02
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does the air just leak out as fast as its put in due to shrunk gaskets or something?
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Dec 7, 2013 01:05
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ijustam posted:does the air just leak out as fast as its put in due to shrunk gaskets or something? Yes, but additionally subzero dense air over thousands and thousands of feet of piping and reservoirs can be an extremely lazy and difficult to pump when compared to the kinds of ideal conditions that these compressors have been design limited (due to cost) to operate in. Edit: Let us not forget that these compressors are busy operating an 1868 brake design ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_air_brake ) with a bunch of bandaid fixes and saddled with the requirements that only Regan era and later greed can dream up. B4Ctom1 fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 7, 2013 02:05
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I bought a truck that was owned by a train company, they left a loading manual in it. The fact that those are listed and illustrated on their manual kind of suggests at some point somebody has done it, and that scares me.
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Dec 7, 2013 02:11
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picture found, no context beyond what I see
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Dec 7, 2013 03:59
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B4Ctom1 posted:Aircraft have two OPERATING people. The railroad has one OPERATING man and one non-OPERATING man. No they don't. Long haul flights have a minimum of 4 pilots - 2 flying and 2 resting. The REALLY long haul flights have up to 10 pilots - 2 flying and 8 resting/doing other poo poo. The rail industry is not a special snow-flake. I'm agreeing with you, my whole point is that fatigue is a management problem, not a technical one as was being suggested, in that technical problems have no solution whilst management ones can be solved if there is a willingness to spend the money. The problem is that a) your crashes are cheap, and b) it's harder to say "gently caress you, you're grounded" to a railroad compared to an airline (since the airline doesn't own the infrastructure or right-of-way and often doesn't even own the assets), so fatigue problems are cheap there's no incentive for your senior managers to get it right Captain Postal fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 7, 2013 05:25
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That's why I don't deal with loving reefers anymore. You where always jumping around doing stupid poo poo at 3am then 9am then 8pm then whatever loving retarded hour they could pull out of their stupid asses. Having a set day not only keeps you mentally awake, it will stop people from falling over face first and having heart attacks at loving 40. Then again, I'd love to see the railguys have to put up with the Obamabreak® just to watch ya'll stroke out for a bit.
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Dec 7, 2013 05:56
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The desk next to mine covers the Sidney sub. Its a wreck and the dispatchers have pretty much checked out because there's not much they can do. Unlike my little crappy sub, we are getting bombarded by 15 really small trains instead of the usual 10 or so slugs. (On a subdivision that's only designed for 6 trains on a good shift)
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Dec 7, 2013 07:41
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InterceptorV8 posted:That's why I don't deal with loving reefers anymore. You where always jumping around doing stupid poo poo at 3am then 9am then 8pm then whatever loving retarded hour they could pull out of their stupid asses. Having a set day not only keeps you mentally awake, it will stop people from falling over face first and having heart attacks at loving 40. Then again, I'd love to see the railguys have to put up with the Obamabreak® just to watch ya'll stroke out for a bit. We have Obamabreak. It is called the Rail Safety Improvement Act of 2008. Worked 6 days in a row without a 48 hour period off? 72 hours unpaid in the penalty box Worked 12 hours and then it took 4 more hours to get you home? Sorry 10 hours rest plus 4 more hours unpaid penalty box Worked 276 hours in any one or a combination of the following activities: on duty, waiting for transportation, in deadhead transportation to a place of final release, or in any other mandatory service for the carrier? Welp, you are not allowed to work for the rest of the month! B4Ctom1 posted:The massive 12,000 foot trains have somehow will not operate with a minimum of locomotives (and thus their respective overtaxed compressors) enough to maintain air to the brakes in -24 F (-31 C) temperatures. Currently there are an unspecified (by me) number of trains parked on our district that cannot move until temperatures get closer to just freezing. BrokenKnucklez posted:The desk next to mine covers the Sidney sub. Its a wreck and the dispatchers have pretty much checked out because there's not much they can do. Yep, that is part of my route. I have been above zero so things are finally getting moving Sydney >--> Laramie >--> Rawlins >--> Greenriver The problem is that now about 20% of all the manpower is at the far terminal..
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Dec 8, 2013 06:53
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B4Ctom1 posted:We have Obamabreak. It is called the Rail Safety Improvement Act of 2008. Wait, let me get this straight. So if the company fucks up scheduling and overworks you to the bone for too long due to their own cheapness in hiring or inability to plan ahead more than a few days, they can send you home without pay for a while? In fact they have to? There is absolutely no way that will be abused. Nope. None.
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Dec 8, 2013 17:21
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kastein posted:Wait, let me get this straight. So if the company fucks up scheduling and overworks you to the bone for too long due to their own cheapness in hiring or inability to plan ahead more than a few days, they can send you home without pay for a while? In fact they have to? Well, to break the 276 hour rule, you would have to work 6 days a week at 11.5 hours per day. But even with rest rules, its pretty hard to do so. Not saying it cant be done, and I have only seen a few guys hit federal rest because of the 276 hour thing. I know limbo time has to be 40 hours a month, and thats a pretty hard one to get to as well. But the 6 days worked then 48 off, or 7 days in a row - 72 off, that gets done on a regular basis. Its kind of hilarious to watch the company run so short staffed and it usually ends up in them scrambling for manpower and knee jerk reactions. Dispatchers can only work 9 hours in a day and then have required 15 off, but we can work every day with no days off.
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Dec 8, 2013 21:29
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http://www.amny.com/urbanite-1.812039/schumer-calls-on-feds-to-mandate-conductor-cameras-in-trains-1.6565584 I guess KCS already has the right to do this and UP is fighting for it. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/railroads-seek-install-cameras-watch-crews
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Dec 9, 2013 00:06
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B4Ctom1 posted:We have Obamabreak. It is called the Rail Safety Improvement Act of 2008. Heh, I'm talking about the 30 mintues shutdown time per 8 hours of being on duty. And don't forget, your 14 is still ticking while you are parked. I beat the clock by dropping a load, switching to personal transportation and bobtailing. Since I am not under load or a trailer, I'm just driving around in a giant pick-up. I wouldn't even want to know the clusterfuck that would happen if they said every 8 hours you had to shut the trains down for 30 minutes because that is safer.
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Dec 9, 2013 07:25
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InterceptorV8 posted:Heh, I'm talking about the 30 mintues shutdown time per 8 hours of being on duty. And don't forget, your 14 is still ticking while you are parked. I beat the clock by dropping a load, switching to personal transportation and bobtailing. Since I am not under load or a trailer, I'm just driving around in a giant pick-up. I wouldn't even want to know the clusterfuck that would happen if they said every 8 hours you had to shut the trains down for 30 minutes because that is safer. Trains stop so often that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
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Dec 9, 2013 17:39
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kastein posted:Wait, let me get this straight. So if the company fucks up scheduling and overworks you to the bone for too long due to their own cheapness in hiring or inability to plan ahead more than a few days, they can send you home without pay for a while? In fact they have to? They are. We have Guaranteed Extraboards. These are the boards used to protect the pool boards for when men take time off they fill in for them. Also when there are "extra" jobs like dogcatching and or locals that need filled in. They are the safety net for everything that isn't covered by regular service. Their pay is either the sum pay of all the jobs they worked, or the "guarantee" which is paid at a set rate per day they are available, which ever is greater. But if you take too much time off this board during the 15 day half (like 3 days or 72 hours) there is a rule that you lose the guarantee in its entirety. So now by manning the extra boards so low that every man is forced into federal rest, they use this federal rest time off as an excuse to take away the guarantee. Basically the railroad monetarily penalizing men on an extraboard for not being available, because enough were not put onto the board by that railroad in the first place, which forced the unavailability. Then when the board is up against this "forced" depletion, instead of the extraboard protecting the pool turns, the pool turns are used in "emergency" service to protect the dogcatches, locals, and absences which the extraboard is designed to protect. An emergency which is intentionally created, is not much of an emergency at all! When this happens, we are all denied the use of time off, even earned and paid time off! Isn't it the case that when someone purposefully creates a disaster within the set rules of society, and against those rules of for personal gain, we call it crime or even terrorism? The entire time they are orchestrating this intentional lack of manpower, they are saying, "hey, its not our fault 'the government' did this to you." B4Ctom1 fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 16:48
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MassivelyBuckNegro posted:I think only the federal government can rival the railroads for lazy and/or incompetent employees(craft or management). To be fair, you aren't talking about T&E here, because if you are, you are talking out your rear end.
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Dec 12, 2013 05:24
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9axle posted:To be fair, you aren't talking about T&E here, because if you are, you are talking out your rear end. The daily deep dicking I get from yardmasters/crews begs to differ. -Bad orders switched out onto the repair track? Nah, we gotta get our early quit. -Foreigns switched out to go offline bare? Nah, we gotta get our early quit. -Tracks pulled and respotted in a timely manner? We'll get out there when we get out there. -Tracks spotted to the correct location? Nah, its easier just to cut them on the far end of the processing tracks. etc ad naseum Nothing would make me happier and my life easier than getting vender switching.
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Dec 12, 2013 09:14
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MassivelyBuckNegro posted:The daily deep dicking I get from yardmasters/crews begs to differ. Sounds like you guys are pretty screwed up out there. We have a briefing with the IM manager, YM and crew at the start of the shift and IM lays out what they need. To be fair, there are no CSX 1-year-wonders running the show out here either, most everyone is former Conrail, managers and crews alike and these guys know their poo poo.
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Dec 12, 2013 15:49
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9axle posted:Sounds like you guys are pretty screwed up out there. We have a briefing with the IM manager, YM and crew at the start of the shift and IM lays out what they need. To be fair, there are no CSX 1-year-wonders running the show out here either, most everyone is former Conrail, managers and crews alike and these guys know their poo poo. Its cool that it matters how long someone has worked for company. Results? Who gives a gently caress? How many years of service do you have with a 15 defunct railroad? That's my poo poo.
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Dec 12, 2013 17:24
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It really depends on whos working for you. You can really see the difference where I am at... One set of crew? Get on and go. Next crew? Eh, maybe we will screw around for 3 hours. Next crew? Wheres our train dispatcher? We want to get going.... now. I have 3 different crew districts where I work, its kinda hilarious the differences you see in just 300 miles.
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Dec 12, 2013 17:50
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BrokenKnucklez posted:It really depends on whos working for you. The difference is just as noticeable across the 3 shifts and 5 yardmasters I work with. The yardmaster who normally works second owns. We have a conversation about what I want, what needs to go today(if we're at length), what I can do to help him out, and what he thinks is possible. He gets the yard crew to work quickly. The guys that normally work 3rd are a mixed bag. The extra-board guy is terrible about doing anything beyond spotting the train how we need it but he usually marks off if he gets called in. First shift guy could retire right now, same with the yard crew, so jack poo poo gets done
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Dec 12, 2013 18:20
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From what I have seen, especially in yards... If a switchman isn't actively screwing the yardmaster or the managers... they spend more time loving the other switchman, road crews, MoW, etc. (and no, not that way sick fuckers) Like they say, a bad switchman can't switch cars, a good one can switch or make your life a living hell. Just depends the mood he is in. Depends on your old heads too, some old heads just wanna get the gently caress out and will do every thing in their power to do as little as possible. But then there are some that can out switch a young crew with ease.
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Dec 12, 2013 18:35
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Goons employed with the railroad: Do you know if the FRA (or any other governing body) has any specific rule prohibiting the hiring and/or continued employment of individuals with felony drug convictions? I know the railroads do a pretty good job of filtering out candidates like that through their own hiring processes but am curious if there's actually a rule somewhere from the feds saying "no, you cannot hire this person with a felony drug/traffic/etc conviction." (no, I am not a felon trying to hire on with the railroad...)
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Dec 13, 2013 00:48
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I went to a train show today and saw some guy talking about and showing video of a Chesapeake and Ohio steam locomotive operating in Florida in the early 80's as some expeditionary thing. They ran it from Miami to Palm Beach and apparently got hung up on a curve in Mangonia Park (where Tri-Rail has a station now). Train shows are loving great, I wish I had more expendable income so I could go there and buy one of those bigass LGB sets then make a track setup on ceiling mounts or something.
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Dec 14, 2013 17:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkY04jkgRqo A kind of cool commercial GE/CSX made
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Dec 19, 2013 09:01
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Zeether posted:Train shows are loving great, I wish I had more expendable income so I could go there and buy one of those bigass LGB sets then make a track setup on ceiling mounts or something.
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Dec 20, 2013 00:54
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Well, I've just received a tempting offer for other employment so this will be my last month with BNSF. It's been fun for the most part. Enjoy your calendar photo, my gift to you 
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Dec 20, 2013 23:24
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