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razz posted:Yes it is and I agree but in cases like that it's not some societal issue where we need to be better to our fellow man, it's an issue with the individual(s) and their lack of personal accountability. I can't feel too sorry for people like that. Do I feel badly for the kids? Absolutely, they're just collateral damage and their whole lives will be shaped by their parents poor decisions. Do I feel bad for the parents who lived in a reduced-price charity house then somehow "lost" more money than I make in 5 years? No I do not. People who are good with money aren't good with money because they are smarter or better by some other metric. They are good with money because they learned good financial skills growing up, and were likely not raised in families that were for want. People who are bad with money never learned financial skills. Saying they should just go on the internet and learn financial skills is naive. Someone who can do that has many other skills, abilities and opportunities that makes that possible and ignores all the other factors at play. It's similar to the situation where a rich kid embraces the just-world fallacy because the only kids in his environment as a kid who weren't successful were lazy or stupid. This may be true since those kids were likely afforded almost every opportunity. However, you can't translate that in to the real world where many people are not successful because they were not afforded the same opportunities and not because they are lazy or stupid. The situation is depressing because ignoring the fact that it was their actions that put them in that situation, the family is now destined to a much lower standard of living because of poor financial skills. Which is an avoidable situation, not avoidable by mocking them and telling them to pull up their boot straps, but by providing financial literacy skills in school and providing a reasonable standard of living and social safety net for everyone so that those skills can be applied.
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Dec 2, 2013 23:34
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razz posted:What's depressing about it? It's not depressing, it's dumb. How could they sell their house (that they got at an extremely discounted cost if it was a HFH house) before they got approved for a mortgage then somehow "lose" 80K? I bet they're those type of people that seem to always have "bad luck" when in reality they just make bad decisions. Being dumb at something most of the world is terrible at doesn't mean they deserve to be screwed. Being dumb also isn't mutually exclusive to being hard working and good hearted. DONT THREAD ON ME fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 23:40
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I believe you both chose to gloss over where I saidrazz posted:I have much more empathy for others than most people I talk to. I think we should make the minimum wage $15+, improve working conditions, have mandated paid time off like EVERY other first world country, have free access to health care and education for all citizens including free college, what have you. I'm not against paying higher taxes for the common good, and basically all of that "socialist" talk, yes I fully believe that every human on earth, especially in this self-proclaimed "Greatest Country on Earth" should have a high standard of living because I have great empathy for all human beings. Where did anyone say they should just get on the internet and learn financial skills? Where did anyone say they "deserve to be screwed"? The most negative thing I said about those people was "I don't feel sorry for them". I do feel badly for the kids, which I also said in one of my previous posts. Like, what do you expect society to do? Just keep shoving charity money at these people? Should we do that with everyone who makes bad financial decisions? When do you stop and say "Alright hold on we've already given these people tons of help maybe we should try something different?" Again, where does PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY come into this? In your scenario, it doesn't. Where do you draw the line between "we need to help this person" and "this person needs to learn some humility and personal responsibility"? I'd say you can draw that line after they sold a house they got through a charity and blew through 80K with supposedly nothing to show for it. You can't help people who refuse to help themselves. razz fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Dec 3, 2013 |
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Dec 3, 2013 00:07
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Also, note that:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis posted:The just-world hypothesis or just-world fallacy is the cognitive bias (or assumption) that a person's actions always bring morally fair and fitting consequences to that person, so that all noble actions are eventually rewarded and all evil actions are eventually punished.
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Dec 3, 2013 00:11
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cowofwar posted:The situation is depressing because ignoring the fact that it was their actions that put them in that situation, the family is now destined to a much lower standard of living because of poor financial skills. Which is an avoidable situation, not avoidable by mocking them and telling them to pull up their boot straps, but by providing financial literacy skills in school and providing a reasonable standard of living and social safety net for everyone so that those skills can be applied. How can you ignore that little fact? How can you hand wave away the fact that they sold their residence and then blew the proceeds? There is 'financial illiteracy' and then there is 'stupid to the point of probably being a mental health issue.'
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Dec 3, 2013 00:14
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Poor financial skills is not understanding interest or the terms of your home loan. Spending less than you earn is like 10% financial acumen and 90% impulse control.
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Dec 3, 2013 00:17
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nevermind.
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Dec 3, 2013 00:58
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Cicero posted:Poor financial skills is not understanding interest or the terms of your home loan. Spending less than you earn is like 10% financial acumen and 90% impulse control. U.S. culture places almost no value on impulse control or restrained consumption and ties personal status to possessions. I'm not surprised at all when people blitz through 'windfall' money.
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Dec 5, 2013 07:23
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more friedman units posted:U.S. culture places almost no value on impulse control or restrained consumption and ties personal status to possessions. I'm not surprised at all when people blitz through 'windfall' money. This is an issue everywhere AFAIK. http://freakonomics.com/2013/09/26/would-a-big-bucket-of-cash-really-change-your-life-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/
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Dec 5, 2013 09:56
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I believe most people are who they are because of chance, I mean no one chooses their genetics, who their parents are or anything else really that makes a person what they are. So yeah when you get down to it it is probably wrong to make fun of people for their bad decisions and how they turned out. However, this is a forum where people get together to laugh at people who are different. Redditors, bronys, libertarians, furries, etc. So yeah, I have empathy for everybody but I can't help but laugh at the ridiculous things people do or believe. If you slip and fall face first into the mud I'll probably laugh but I'll also reach out a hand and help you up if I can. Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 15:35
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Orange_Lazarus posted:I believe most people are who they are because of chance, I mean no one chooses their genetics, who their parents are or anything else really that makes a person what they are. So yeah when you get down to it it is probably wrong to make fun of people for their bad decisions and how they turned out. While this is true of many things - education level, economic class and so forth - on a micro level, I doubt that there is a strong case to be made on the upbringing determinism that compels one to wear a fedora.
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Dec 5, 2013 15:40
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I don't know about that. Imagine you're one of the ugly kids at school and you've been sheltered your whole life. The only group that's willing to accept you are the fedora wearing weirdos. Your choices are either to be alone or to hang out with the weird kids. I think most people would choose the latter if that's the hand they were dealt. Sure there are people that break trends and stereotypes but once again I think there's something in their background that would explain why they were able to. I just have a hard time understanding how a completely normal person would choose "dressing like a dork and never getting laid" over something better. Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 15:55
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I was poorly socialized growing up because my parents always pushed academics and responsible money handling skills. Great for doing well at school and making a decent career for myself, bad for having anything other than a quasi-neck beard social experience. I never went full fedora but did do some nerdy-rear end things publicly without realizing how socially inept I was. Eventually I found out how to be someone worth hanging out with on a Friday night (it helps that nobody turns down free deejays no matter how average they are  ). Still content with my lot in life at any rate - it's a lot easier to do what I did than make up for 15 years of being 2 cool 4 skool and having stories told about me in this thread.To avoid the shitpost, here's the story about some  Same dude also bought a boat for his big-rear end rental house on a lake and tried to borrow over 4 grand from people for a leather sectional (didn't get money, still bought it somehow). The guy had a more opulent lifestyle than I did at maybe half my salary. He's a really competent guy work wise but damned if his sense went home from the office with him  .
Guest2553 fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 17:57
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Yeah I have a co-worker that's really bad about lottery tickets. He bitches about how he can't afford Obamacare but probably spends $10 bucks on lottery tickets/scratchers a day not to mention his eating/drinking habits. His problem is that he's one of those people in his mid fifties that was making bank before the recession and then lost his job the mountain of debt he was managing slowly tumbled on top of him. If I had no money in my mid fifties (and a lot of debt) I would probably be playing the lottery everyday too.
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Dec 5, 2013 20:23
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This guy. http://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/1s5i6q/drowning/ 4 kids, jesus.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:03
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TLG James posted:This guy. Quoting his post in full because reddit. quote:A little about me... I'm 26 years old, married, single income in household of 6. Kids ages are 7, 3, 2, 2. 2-year-old twins were a surprise pregnancy/double surprise twins. We knew we were not financially ready for another child, let alone two. I really don't think this guy is bad with money, except for the 80-mile commute for $5/hour more. He's just loving poor and it sounds like he has no skills.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:10
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I consider him bad with money because at no point should he have had any kids. The oldest kid, in the thread was from his wife's previous relationship, but it sounded like they were living to paycheck to paycheck with 1 kid, but doing ok, then they had another kid for unknown reasons, then TWINS.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:16
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That is one reason why at 22 I am sterilized. I never want kids and my wife could not survive a pregnancy. When we are older and more stable we plan to adopt but birth control and condoms can fail and it was so simple and cheap to get snipped.I know to many friends and family that had an oops pregnancy and are struggling to get by on anything. Kids are a blessing but you have to be in a right position yourself before you should be having them and when you can barely make ends meet through bad decisions then its not the time. Specially to have more like some people I've known. I do realize that accidents happen and some people can't afford birth control or other methods. I just mean people that have choices and chances and make stupid decisions. Like most of the people in the thread
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Dec 6, 2013 21:33
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TLG James posted:I consider him bad with money because at no point should he have had any kids. The oldest kid, in the thread was from his wife's previous relationship, but it sounded like they were living to paycheck to paycheck with 1 kid, but doing ok, then they had another kid for unknown reasons, then TWINS. quote:2-year-old twins were a surprise pregnancy/double surprise twins.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:45
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Harry posted:Combination of being dumb and unlucky. They had one kid (with each other) before the twins already.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:50
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Nothing unlucky about two vehicle loans when your take home is $2300/mo. Also, his non-child expenses are higher than mine and I love in a major city.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:51
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His wife should be pursuing child support if that's the case, but really they should just declare bankruptcy...
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Dec 6, 2013 21:52
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Jeffrey posted:His wife should be pursuing child support if that's the case, but really they should just declare bankruptcy... But that would be quitting and real 'mericans never quit.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:53
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TLG James posted:They had one kid (with each other) before the twins already. Yeah, I misread it and thought you were asking about the twins. Honest, the two kids would have been fine, but the twins was the nail in the coffin. The wife could possibly have gotten a job and have one kid in daycare, but the twins made it pretty much impossible. Personally, he should be looking into government services harder than he currently is.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:59
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As your friendly neighborhood purveyor of government services to parents, there are none!  Well, not none, but depending on their state it can be almost laughable. Even getting kids into subsidized preschool can be a nightmare. I can usually get people WIC, food stamps, and connect them to childcare exchange parenting groups and add them to the multiyear section 8 wait list. If they do end up homeless, they might actually get more 
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Dec 6, 2013 22:21
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MrKatharsis posted:Nothing unlucky about two vehicle loans when your take home is $2300/mo. Also, his non-child expenses are higher than mine and I love in a major city. $600 rent for living space on a family of 6 doesn't get much in most places. In the cities I've lived in, that's on the barely habitable end of the housing spectrum. The real headscratcher is how he is spending an extra 75% on top of rent for utilities. I wonder if we eventually find out that it was a STDH story after good-intentioned redditors send a few thousand dollars to his paypal account. The internet has made me suspicious of everything. Fake edit: Whoa those comments.  : "Buy some used cloth diapers on Craiglist"
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Dec 6, 2013 22:45
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$600 will pretty easily get you a decent sized two bedroom apartment in small towns/cities. It's not going to be very well insulated or have efficient utilities, though; $450 doesn't seem totally nuts (one of my wife's old apartments had awful heaters that could blow through that much just in gas in a month if you let them). One of the comments mentions about $150 of that is water, which seems pretty extreme, but I've never had to pay a water bill, so I don't really know what's normal.
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Dec 6, 2013 23:20
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Zhentar posted:$600 will pretty easily get you a decent sized two bedroom apartment in small towns/cities. It's not going to be very well insulated or have efficient utilities, though; $450 doesn't seem totally nuts (one of my wife's old apartments had awful heaters that could blow through that much just in gas in a month if you let them). One of the comments mentions about $150 of that is water, which seems pretty extreme, but I've never had to pay a water bill, so I don't really know what's normal. I live in a desert climate where water is precious and exepensive, and drought in a constant concern, and our water bill during the summer while taking care of multiple trees and a small vegetable garden was about $30.00 a month. This was with five people living there and doing dishes and such. We didn't have grass or anything which would really cause it to rise, but that bill is ridiculous. I can't imagine they're worse off for water than we are here.
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Dec 6, 2013 23:30
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Maybe they have a leaky pipe after the meter? I've seen even a slow leak end up costing tons of money because it's effectively running 24/7.
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Dec 6, 2013 23:47
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Delta-Wye posted:Maybe they have a leaky pipe after the meter? I've seen even a slow leak end up costing tons of money because it's effectively running 24/7. I can almost guarantee you that it's a leaky toilet. People ignore them since it's just a light noise in the tank, but I've seen them raise water rates by $100 or more when they never stop.
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Dec 7, 2013 00:39
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MrKatharsis posted:Nothing unlucky about two vehicle loans when your take home is $2300/mo. Also, his non-child expenses are higher than mine and I love in a major city. Especially since they only need one car - at most. He's the only one working. Where could she need to go that would warrant the relatively considerable expense of a 2nd car? My wife and I make close to 4 times more than that couple, and the discussion to have a 2nd child (which we haven't had yet) was not flippant. I'd argue that these people qualify as "bad with money" because they made a series of decisions that would have landed them in these circumstances 9 times out of 10. There are plenty of poor people who, through no fault of their own can't get ahead. But this couple would be fine if they kept their heads. Only if EVERYTHING went perfect could they have skated through fine. I mean, cars break down. People get sick. People get fired. Rent goes up. This poo poo happens. It's irresponsible to have no hope to afford even the most ordinary of "unexpected" expenses. The twins are a double gauge shot gun blast to the head, but they were financially boned even before that. If they're not bankruptcy candidates, then something is terribly wrong.
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Dec 7, 2013 02:02
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Someone get on reddit and tell that dumb sonofabitch to file bankruptcy yesterday. For most states, he's already under the single person median income and they have a household of six. There are some valid arguments for a single person to avoid it if it just means living on ramen for awhile, but I don't think it's a good idea if you're facing homelessness. That's for a single person. How clueless do you need to be to have the roof over your kids' heads or their ability to eat compromised by a garnishment and not look at every option? He needs to get his head out of his rear end and realize he doesn't make enough for pride. Their budget would be tight without the debt, but probably doable. This situation is what bankruptcy protection is for. People making stupid decisions when they're the only ones affected is one thing, but people with kids doing stupid poo poo makes me furious.
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Dec 7, 2013 03:20
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How can they even garnish the wages of someone making such a small amount? I thought one had to be making more than X a year and more than X on an individual check and even then you could respond back and explain the situation and the amount deducted from each check could be modified?
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Dec 7, 2013 03:57
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I would guess that he simply ignored the problem and hoped it would go away, thus giving the creditor a defult judgement and default garnishment order. It very easy to get hosed hard by the courts if you don't adequately respond to proceedings against you.
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Dec 7, 2013 05:19
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canyoneer posted:$600 rent for living space on a family of 6 doesn't get much in most places. In the cities I've lived in, that's on the barely habitable end of the housing spectrum. The real headscratcher is how he is spending an extra 75% on top of rent for utilities. In Alaska, you could easily pay more for (electric) heating than for rent.
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Dec 7, 2013 06:35
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The guy ended up posting his Amazon wishlist for his kids, it seems pretty legit. I did laugh at the fact that one of the things was "The Giving Tree" book. Seems like his kids should be utilizing a library for most of that stuff.
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Dec 7, 2013 06:55
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Any thread in the personal finance subreddit are people bad with money. It seems to always come down to people asking other random people for permission to buy something or they are too lazy to make their own budget. http://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/1s8f41/make_good_money_and_still_broke/ is a good example. He makes $100,00 a year, does not post any of his expenses and is wondering why he's broke. He keeps pity posting in the thread apparently trying to get people to magic up his expenses for him. Yaos fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 7, 2013 08:47
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Yaos posted:Any thread in the personal finance subreddit are people bad with money. The whole reason I joined reddit was to get my daily dose of financial-idiocy schadenfreude in the personal finance subreddit because BFC moves too slowly for me. It's amazing the messes some people get into. I don't think the guy with all the kids is a bad guy. He does seem to have made his best effort at supporting his family, he said they live in a small town with no/terrible public transport so that's why they need the second car, although his wife barely leaves the house to save on fuel. The only really bad thing he did was have all those kids and I can understand an oops baby but how the gently caress do you end up doing that a second time!? Ugh. At least he got a vasectomy.
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Dec 7, 2013 09:59
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He should get a divorce and let his wife have custody and go on welfare, but continue living with her. Could probably bring in another 30k a year tax free.
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Dec 7, 2013 13:29
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Yaos posted:Any thread in the personal finance subreddit are people bad with money. It seems to always come down to people asking other random people for permission to buy something or they are too lazy to make their own budget. I don't know, half the threads I read seem to be brag threads where someone is asking how do they save money when they're 22, making $90,000 a year and spending $30,000 or something stupid like that.
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Dec 7, 2013 15:06
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