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Joeslop posted:What were the most underwhelming surprise returns, where either people had no idea who the person was, didn't remember them, or just plain didn't care, not counting Royal Rumble surprises? There is only one correct response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJsXAqa_Xv0
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Dec 5, 2013 16:22
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Guy who randomly got a mini-Goldberg push for a few months with Teddy Long as his manager. His hilariously racist manager. Teddy would come out and declare that no white boy could last a minute with Rodney, Rodney would win. Then he faced Goldberg, I guess Teddy didn't account for rampaging Jews, and that was it for Rodney.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:22
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crankdatbatman posted:Who the hell was Rodney Mack? He's in SmackDown Here Comes the Pain and Wikipedia proves he's not some create a wrestler they threw in there but I swear I've never heard of him, and I kind of watched the product at that time. Midcarder in a black heel stable led by Teddy Long. The main thing I remember him for is the "White boy Challenge" where he's squash a white jobber before Goldberg ended up squashing him. Teddy Long still uses his music.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:23
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Rodney the Piper posted:Edit: also, no one has mentioned Carlito's full name, Carlito Caribbean Cool. Possibly the most ridiculous wrestling name ever.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:31
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Halloween Jack posted:Goddamn, my head is spinning. Was this a tasteless nod to Bruiser Brody's death or a tasteless nod to Rikidozan's death? Nah, but it's worse because a wrestler in TNA actually did get stabbed about a week or so before that angle. I love how when Cena came back there were no scars or anything where he got "stabbeD"
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Dec 5, 2013 16:31
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Almost all of those international guys were because of working agreements with various companies. WWE had a working agreement with SWS, Tenryu's company, so they used Tenryu and Kanuki. Tenryu and Koji Kitao (who had one of the funniest stories in the original DVDVR sleaze thread) actually beat Demolition at Wrestlemania 7. There was also a working agreement between WWE and AAA to try and help WWE with talent. I believe that's how they came to use Max Mini and Mini Vader and Mini Pierroth. Colon I assume was a political thing too, but damned if I know how it came about. Right you are. I also thought of mentioning Dick Murdoch, but I honestly can't remember if the fans responded for him or not. The 1995 Royal Rumble is probably the worst Rumble I can think of, mostly because I hated the "Fastest-Paced Rumble Ever!" thing with minute intervals - which they haven't done since. That Rumble also had The Heavenly Bodies, Mantaur, Well Dunn, and The Blu Twins, who I'd like to say also got no reactions.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:33
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Chris Masters was hugely underutilized when he returned a few years ago. He showed a ton of improvement, but Triple H buried him. Shelton Benjamin might have been slightly underutilized too. He seemed to reach a plateau and not really improve after a whole, bit that might have been because they weren't pushing him hard enough. It's a tough call with him.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:36
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Wasn't the Jesus stabbing angle used to explain Cena's injury at the time? Like, he got an injury in the general area doing something completely unrelated and they explained it in-storyline with Carlito's pal having stabbed him.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:37
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The Rodney Mack question reminded me of something. I wasn't watching wrestling when the WWF did the infamous racial gang war angle. Was any faction supposed to be the faces in that angle? Were fans just expected to cheer for their particular ethnic group?
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Dec 5, 2013 16:37
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Thauros posted:The Rodney Mack question reminded me of something. I wasn't watching wrestling when the WWF did the infamous racial gang war angle. The white guys were the faces. Seriously.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:43
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CopywrightMMXI posted:Chris Masters was hugely underutilized when he returned a few years ago. He showed a ton of improvement, but Triple H buried him. After his real life heroics, I don't know why they didn't bring him back as a megaface, even for a short run or guest appearance. Oh wait, WWE.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:44
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In response to the "no reaction at the Rumble" question, Haku showed up to the 2001(?) Rumble with little to no fanfare if I remember. He comes out at #28 or so and most people are just confused. He went on to team with Rikishi for a bit and then disappeared, as far as I remember.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:44
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The Masters thing was hosed up. He comes in as a useless bloated up roid monkey, is eventually Wellness popped. Comes back about a thousand times less roided, is mocked on-camera for not being big anymore, is shunted off to Superstars duty where he had fun matches, is sent to Raw where he literally didn't appear for four months, and was fired.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:45
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CopywrightMMXI posted:Shelton Benjamin might have been slightly underutilized too. He seemed to reach a plateau and not really improve after a whole, bit that might have been because they weren't pushing him hard enough. It's a tough call with him. Shelton is a fantastic worker, so they were more than happy to throw him out there to do whatever on the spot, because he'll pull good matches out of everyone. He's had no problem finding work in ROH/Indies/Japan whatsoever, and I'm sure if he wanted to, he could come back to WWE for a job. His problem was lack of direction. They realized he was weak at promos, and decided the solution was a mouthpiece. Usually, that'd be a great idea, except they hired an actress to play his morbidly obese mother, essentially slotting him as a lower-tier midcarder. They eventually ditched that, and since he'd been the fallback for the Intercontinental title (for his in-ring performance, or some other reason), they recycled Butch Reed's gimmick, and had him dye his hair blonde. He got the nickname of "The Gold Standard", but really, WWE never expanded upon the gimmick's concept or reasoning, and just let him wrestle. That would've been fine for most of us, but if you don't have promo skills, or at least some coherent storyline, you're going to get lost in the shuffle - which he was. He was eventually released, I'm guessing, because they had nothing for him. That said, I'm not sure what else you can do with Shelton besides just letting him work. He appeared in several Money in the Bank ladder matches because of his abilities, but didn't win any of them. I love watching the guy wrestle, but I don't think I can see him advancing beyond where he was in WWE without a great mouthpiece or really compelling storyline.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:46
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Red posted:Shelton is a fantastic worker, so they were more than happy to throw him out there to do whatever on the spot, because he'll pull good matches out of everyone. He's had no problem finding work in ROH/Indies/Japan whatsoever, and I'm sure if he wanted to, he could come back to WWE for a job. He got some backstage heat since he was playing video games when they thought he should have been watching tapes.
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Dec 5, 2013 16:51
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DeathChicken posted:Guy who randomly got a mini-Goldberg push for a few months with Teddy Long as his manager. His hilariously racist manager. Teddy would come out and declare that no white boy could last a minute with Rodney, Rodney would win. Then he faced Goldberg, I guess Teddy didn't account for rampaging Jews, and that was it for Rodney. The Goldberg match contains the only memorable thing Rodney Mack ever did (well, apart from almost killing Al Snow with a botched Tiger Bomb): his ridiculous entrance-ramp-length sell of Goldberg's Spear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRy2lZGop8o&t=75s
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Dec 5, 2013 16:53
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The Gold Standard gimmick could have been money if they paired him with Libertarian Kane.
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Dec 5, 2013 17:06
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BodyMassageMachine posted:In response to the "no reaction at the Rumble" question, Haku showed up to the 2001(?) Rumble with little to no fanfare if I remember. He comes out at #28 or so and most people are just confused. He went on to team with Rikishi for a bit and then disappeared, as far as I remember. Didn't WWF just hire him because he was WCW Hardcore Champion at the time, and they wanted to gently caress with them?
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Dec 5, 2013 17:13
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Suleman posted:Wasn't the Jesus stabbing angle used to explain Cena's injury at the time? Like, he got an injury in the general area doing something completely unrelated and they explained it in-storyline with Carlito's pal having stabbed him. I think it was an excuse to give him time to film The Marine. Rodney Mack was also married to Jazz.
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Dec 5, 2013 17:16
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getitoffgetitoff posted:The Gold Standard gimmick could have been money if they paired him with Libertarian Kane. In all seriousness, I should also mention that Benjamin was pushed somewhat after splitting from Charlie Haas. He got an upset win over Triple H, and started buddying up with Chris Benoit, and some other top faces, to feud with Evolution. He got to beat Flair before later losing an I-C match to Randy Orton.
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Dec 5, 2013 17:22
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Shelton is definitely a guy that comes to mind for me when I think about people I'd like to still have around. Big fan from his Team Angle / WGTT and his early face stuff, but, yeah, the guy was subpar on the mic. What little I saw of his subsequent heel runs disappointed me, and he left WWE while I wasn't watching. For situations like his, or even with Masters -who people seem to look back on a little fondly- was it somebody's screw-up or was it just never meant to be or what?
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Dec 5, 2013 17:23
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I wasn't around for Shelton's salad days, but from what you guys are saying it sounds like he could have been doing something like what Okada is doing now.
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Dec 5, 2013 17:28
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Shelton is still really good and his run in ROH was really good. The only problem was that they entered into a neverending fued with the Briscoes (Ether)
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Dec 5, 2013 17:30
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The upside is he's doing pretty well in Japan.
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Dec 5, 2013 17:36
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triplexpac posted:Didn't WWF just hire him because he was WCW Hardcore Champion at the time, and they wanted to gently caress with them? WCW had Meng/Haku on a show-to-show deal, which, normally, wouldn't be a bad idea for an older guy like him. The bad idea was WCW putting a title on a guy with a handshake deal. The WWF saw that Haku (as a related Samoan to Rikishi/Rock/etc.) would fit nicely into their existing angle with Rikishi, and would bone WCW by leaving - and signed him up. He showed up at the 2001 Rumble, and immediately jumped into Rikishi's storyline. So Haku/Rikishi tagged together for a little bit, but nothing much came of it, and Haku eventually left to work the indies before moving on to selling cars or real estate or something. Red fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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Dec 5, 2013 17:36
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Halloween Jack posted:I wasn't around for Shelton's salad days, but from what you guys are saying it sounds like he could have been doing something like what Okada is doing now. He doesn't have anywhere near the charisma to pull it off. His athleticism and potential definitely stood out at the time but he couldn't run with the ball if they gave him a headstart. Then they gave him poo poo like Shelton's Momma he wouldn't ever come back from. He's still a lot of fun to watch in NJPW though.
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Dec 5, 2013 17:42
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What was the biggest combined rating that Nitro and Raw got for the same quarter-hour?
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Dec 5, 2013 17:53
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Thauros posted:The Rodney Mack question reminded me of something. I wasn't watching wrestling when the WWF did the infamous racial gang war angle. Nope, none of them were faces. Late 97 WWF was actually doing a thing where almost everyone was a heel. The top storyline at the time was Michaels vs Hart - heel vs heel. Everyone in Hart Foundation and DX were heels and were at war with each other. Austin was cheered but he was giving harmless ring announcers stunners. When Chyna got involved in a match, he said he wasn't above hitting women. He gave Mankind a stunner when he was trying to be his friend. Undertaker was said to have murdered his family. Mankind gave JR the mandible claw in the middle of an interview. It was actually a great exciting unpredictable time.
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Dec 5, 2013 19:00
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BodyMassageMachine posted:In response to the "no reaction at the Rumble" question, Haku showed up to the 2001(?) Rumble with little to no fanfare if I remember. He comes out at #28 or so and most people are just confused. He went on to team with Rikishi for a bit and then disappeared, as far as I remember. Haku/Meng was pretty much the perfect harbinger for the shitshow that the invasion angle became. Here you have a guy who had a decent WWF Tenure in the 80's and early 90's, an excellent 5+ year WCW run where he was one of the few truly "protected" monster heels there (to a point where he was a threat to Giant, Goldberg, etc) with a nearly unstoppable finisher, and who was even the current WCW Hardcore champ. He comes out as a "surprise" entrant to the rumble, and the announcers make nothing of it. Within 3 months he's a jobber with rikishi and leaves. They took one of the biggest monsters in WCW, who was a champion at the time no less, and made him "a guy" in the span of 2 months.
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Dec 5, 2013 19:16
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oatgan posted:He doesn't have anywhere near the charisma to pull it off. His athleticism and potential definitely stood out at the time but he couldn't run with the ball if they gave him a headstart. If I recall correctly, this is while MVP was trying to pitch his gimmick. He pointed out that Shelton just dyed his hair and wore flashy shirts, but HE could pull it off completely. Had a treatment of his character written out with a few months of storyline ideas.
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Dec 5, 2013 19:16
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ThatCguy posted:Haku/Meng was pretty much the perfect harbinger for the shitshow that the invasion angle became. I watched WCW only sporadically from '97 to the end, but is this true? I got the impression that Meng was a much bigger threat to Sting and other heroes before the nWo's arrival. I think The Faces of Fear was a fairly effective team, but they (or solo Meng) just didn't have a lot to do after the Hogan turn. After the nWo's rise, he just became a background guy who showed up now and then, but didn't figure into any major storylines. I always assumed the reason he got a title match with Goldberg is the same reason Bryan Adams did: none of the top guys were willing to job to this newer guy who hadn't "earned" his spot (their feelings, not mine). But, again, I only watched WCW now and then, so I could be wrong.
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Dec 5, 2013 19:24
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He was pretty much Monster of the Midcard for the entirety of WCW. Anyone who wasn't on Giant or Goldberg's level he would probably beat. He'd take down Sting or Luger if given an opening. Never a real storyline, just a guy there to destroy people.
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Dec 5, 2013 19:31
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Red posted:I watched WCW only sporadically from '97 to the end, but is this true? I got the impression that Meng was a much bigger threat to Sting and other heroes before the nWo's arrival. I think The Faces of Fear was a fairly effective team, but they (or solo Meng) just didn't have a lot to do after the Hogan turn. After the nWo's rise, he just became a background guy who showed up now and then, but didn't figure into any major storylines. I always assumed the reason he got a title match with Goldberg is the same reason Bryan Adams did: none of the top guys were willing to job to this newer guy who hadn't "earned" his spot (their feelings, not mine). Meng was kind of like the cruiserweights, I think that most of the booking committee just forgot about him and let him do his own thing in the first hour. They usually had him go out and just squash people or run in and beat someone up. When they started up their own hardcore title he had quite a few matches and ended up winning the belt. He was sort of like a contemporary Mark Henry, a beast they could just roll out when they wanted to squash something.
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Dec 5, 2013 19:33
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ThatCguy posted:Meng was kind of like the cruiserweights, I think that most of the booking committee just forgot about him and let him do his own thing in the first hour. They usually had him go out and just squash people or run in and beat someone up. When they started up their own hardcore title he had quite a few matches and ended up winning the belt. He was sort of like a contemporary Mark Henry, a beast they could just roll out when they wanted to squash something. Oh, see, I'd agree with that. I got the impression from your previous post that said 'protected monster heel' that you implied he was much higher in WCW's hierarchy.
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Dec 5, 2013 19:36
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Minus1Minus1 posted:I'm guessing people wouldn't answer "Carlito," then, for the question I'm going to ask. Wade Barrett. If you looked at his career it's like a roller coaster of peaks and valleys, attributable to external factors like injuries and, I guess most recently, Visa issues? The guy has a look, can put on good matches with most styles, he's good on the mic when he has something to say, yet.. he's stuck doing nothing for long stretches of time which I think is indicitive of WWE not wanting to invest in a guy who has these periods of absense. The main blow for his trajectory I think was that terrible Raw battle royal which broke his arm and cost him a potentially huge match at WM, which could have been a signature moment in his career. After he came back from that he still had some big moments but no sustained effort to establish him as a role player -- which I feel he could easily have been/may still become.
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Dec 5, 2013 20:02
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Thauros posted:Did anyone before Okada regularly use a Rainmaker? Vader hits a weak-looking version at 1:48 (from the same match where you see Vader's eye pop out at 3:40) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOYSnhhiU8M Found this gif of Jake Roberts http://wrestlemation.com/gfx/wrestling/wrestlers/jake-roberts/miscellaneous/jake-roberts-8636#joomimg http://www.wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=bsuche&aufgabe=suche&move_name=377 http://www.wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=bsuche&aufgabe=suche&move_name=376 I'd be surprised if Hansen never did something like this. OneThousandMonkeys posted:When people say that Carlito's gimmick was that he is cool and spits in the face of people that don't want to be cool, they are not kidding, other than that he wasn't actually cool. This was his entire schtick for years on end and his entrance music tells you what is going to happen when he appears. "My name is Finlay, and I LOVE to fight!" Also, just gonna repost some questions I asked earlier but got buried amongst discussion of ending 'Taker's streak. Nick_326 posted:Q: Someone mentioned an interview with Steve Austin where he was shocked to find out he broke Chono's neck. Anyone have a link to the interview and/or that specific part?
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Dec 5, 2013 20:04
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Nick_326 posted:Vader hits a weak-looking version at 1:48 (from the same match where you see Vader's eye pop out at 3:40)
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Dec 5, 2013 20:12
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quote:"My name is Finlay, and I LOVE to fight!" Yeah but Finlay does love to fight, fighting is cool, and he's good at it. Game set match!
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Dec 5, 2013 20:27
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There's an episode of Smackdown from 2001 that someone has stuck on Youtube in apparent HD. He's also edited some of the music. Here it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoWXKnrWczc What I'm wondering is, even if it's not actually HD, where would he have gotten a full episode of Smackdown from that period that's not all VHS-y? It looks REALLY good. Like a DVD rip.
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Dec 5, 2013 20:33
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Red posted:WCW had Meng/Haku on a show-to-show deal, which, normally, wouldn't be a bad idea for an older guy like him. The bad idea was WCW putting a title on a guy with a handshake deal. http://www.davidmaustoyota.com/dealership/staff.htm "You'll love our cars, or I'll break your teeth out of your jaw!"
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Dec 5, 2013 20:47
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