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Tim Stone did a not-a-review of UoC's Black Turn DLC on RPS.Tim Stone posted:People that might not enjoy Black Turn:
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Dec 6, 2013 16:19
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In an attempt to make their portfolio more accessible, Matrix Games representatives have announced they will allow purchases through the Origin marketplace. Some games will also be made available for the OUYA. "We believe this strategy will confirm our strong commitment to open source gaming, freedom of choice and technological innovation. GET SOME!" added the Matrix marketing manager.
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Dec 6, 2013 16:20
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Oh god I made the mistake of trying to explain simple economics to the grognards.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:00
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Alchenar posted:Oh god I made the mistake of trying to explain simple economics to the grognards. Did you try making analogies using hexes and oob's?
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Dec 6, 2013 20:02
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He clearly forgot you can bank supplies for that all out offensive in two turns when the weather clears.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:16
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Riso posted:He clearly forgot you can bank supplies for that all out offensive in two turns when the weather clears. I'm doing a buildup of rage.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:59
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Alchenar posted:Oh god I made the mistake of trying to explain simple economics to the grognards. I've given up on the Matrix forums. What's a summary of the response?
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Dec 6, 2013 21:01
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Tomn posted:I've given up on the Matrix forums. What's a summary of the response? quote:Sigh... Calm down, Steam alarmists. There's not much reason for Sliterine to tie themselves to Steam; their profit margins are probably RAZOR thin as is, so why would they let Steam take a cut? Cue absolutely no one getting it through their heads that it would be pretty much impossible for Slitherine to see a decrease in their number of units sold as a result of releasing a game on Steam On that note, Alchenar where did you see that Unity of Command has sold more from Steam than from anywhere else combined?
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Dec 6, 2013 21:10
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I honestly think a lot of these guys defending Matrix don't actually want the games to sell more and do better. They want them to be a niche product for the 'elite'.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:Cue absolutely no one getting it through their heads that it would be pretty much impossible for Slitherine to see a decrease in their number of units sold as a result of releasing a game on Steam You're going to need to help me out here because this does not compute. I can see someone arguing that Steam could decrease overall profits because the number of units sold doesn't match up with the loss of value from selling at a lower price. It'd be a silly argument, but I could see how someone who absolutely does not believe that wargames are at all attractive to anyone not already on Matrix forums might think that. But how in God's good name could anyone possibly reason that Steam actually reduces the amount of sales made?  Oh, Christ, I just realized - do they think the amount of angry grognards boycotting the games because "STEAM IS EVIL" would outnumber the amount of new sales drawn in?
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Dec 6, 2013 21:20
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gradenko_2000 posted:
It was stated by a beta tester in that thread that was linked on page one.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:22
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Tomn posted:You're going to need to help me out here because this does not compute. I can see someone arguing that Steam could decrease overall profits because the number of units sold doesn't match up with the loss of value from selling at a lower price. It'd be a silly argument, but I could see how someone who absolutely does not believe that wargames are at all attractive to anyone not already on Matrix forums might think that. Well, if you work from the assumption that Wargames are an inherently niche product, and if they assume that every person who would possibly buy a wargame already knows about Matrix, then it does follow that releasing on steam will add no new customers and drive the steam-haters away from your product. Both assumptions together form the core of the Matrix identity, both in their busniness philosophy and on their forums.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:41
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Tomn posted:You're going to need to help me out here because this does not compute. I can see someone arguing that Steam could decrease overall profits because the number of units sold doesn't match up with the loss of value from selling at a lower price. It'd be a silly argument, but I could see how someone who absolutely does not believe that wargames are at all attractive to anyone not already on Matrix forums might think that. Eighter that or they think additional games sold through steam has a "production cost" per unit or something.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:42
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Tomn posted:You're going to need to help me out here because this does not compute. I can see someone arguing that Steam could decrease overall profits because the number of units sold doesn't match up with the loss of value from selling at a lower price. It'd be a silly argument, but I could see how someone who absolutely does not believe that wargames are at all attractive to anyone not already on Matrix forums might think that. Not unit sales mind you, they probably meant revenue. I think (and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here) that the reasoning is something like: "Slitherine is currently selling Panzer Corps for 19.99 USD, and their profit margins are slim because it's a ~*wargame*~. If they start selling Panzer Corps for 19.99 USD on Steam, and Steam takes their 20-30% cut of 19.99 USD, they're not going to make as much money, maybe even take a loss! Putting a game on Steam also isn't going to result in that many more additional sales anyway because it's a ~*wargame*~! What's worse, if they put Panzer Corps on sale for 9.99 USD or something, then that cuts into profits even more!" I don't know. My head hurts now.
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Dec 6, 2013 23:03
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As a social studies teacher who is certified for econ, they are dumb as gently caress and only good could come from expanding the market and getting fresh blood in this stupid hobby. Then again, arguing on their forums is an exercise in futility. I got called a leftist for trying to rerail a discussion on demos from that other stupid thread.
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Dec 6, 2013 23:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:Not unit sales mind you, they probably meant revenue. I think (and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here) that the reasoning is something like: Yours wasn't crazy enough.
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Dec 6, 2013 23:33
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Wait what they think valve puts games on sale without consulting the develepors first? 
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Dec 6, 2013 23:37
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Steam is a digital sweatshop. Developers will take their bowl of gruel and like it!
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Dec 6, 2013 23:42
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Rudi Starnberg posted:Wait what they think valve puts games on sale without consulting the develepors first? I wouldn't be surprised if they did, at least as part of some contracts. Nevertheless, even if it were so, Steam wouldn't do these sales if it didn't bring in an increase in revenue, hence improving overall profits of Valve as well as their clients. VVVV Production costs are a problem, of course. Wargame-grade bitcoinium is notoriously difficult to mine, and existing seams are nearing exhaustion. Resource shortages just will prevent marginal variable costs from decreasing with volume. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 6, 2013 23:59
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Well if Matrix sells a game for 50$, that probably means that production costs per unit is ~30$. It then follows that selling the same game for 20$ is completely unsustainable. 
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Dec 7, 2013 00:07
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Aren't an awful lot of these games made by like one or (maaaybe) two guys anyway? I imagine production cost is pretty low for the realm of video games.
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Dec 7, 2013 00:48
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In contrast to these capitalist shenanigans, how many freeware wargames do we have? Different Steel Panthers versions (even if you have to pay $$ for full features), Armored Brigade, Panzer General Forever... others?
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Dec 7, 2013 00:52
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gradenko_2000 posted:Not unit sales mind you, they probably meant revenue. I think (and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here) that the reasoning is something like: I got curious enough to check out the thread, and I have to say, I'm kinda disappointed. As far as I can tell, the guy you're arguing with is doing so on purely semantic grounds - he apparently misunderstood Alchenar's quote here as well as taking it out of context: Alchenar posted:I don't think you know how profit margins work. (hint: the more units you ship, the lower your unit price needs to be to make a profit) In context, Alchenar was replying to that dude going on about Steam alarmists. Near as I can tell, however, the guy you're debating with seems to have taken the comment as it stands and apparently had a brainfart, reading the quote about as follows (italics indicates what he tacked on mentally): Pseudo-Alchenar posted:I don't think you know how profit margins work. The way they work is, the more units you ship, the lower your unit price needs to be to make a better profit In other words, he believed that Alchenar was misdefining profit margins and was further claiming that "you will make more money if you lower the price, assuming you are selling a large quantity of units." That is, that Alchenar was claiming that if you could make and sell 100K units (and ONLY 100K units - let's assume that for whatever reason, possibly because there's only 100K consumers, demand doesn't change), and priced them at $10 per unit, you could make more profit by pricing them at $5 per unit even if you only sold the same 100K units, so long as you're selling an absolutely large quantity of units. His arguments make a lot more sense when you realize what he thought Alchenar was saying (though he apparently didn't have a whole lot of respect for Alchenar's intelligence if he assumed that was what was being said). It's definitely a silly misunderstanding, but it's no more than a misunderstanding, and has nothing to do with Matrix's policies or the likelihood of wargames selling on Steam. Heck, to the best of my memory the guy in question is actually a strong proponent of lower prices and distribution via Steam. Also, the guy who made the "profit margins" quote in the first place is, as far as I recall, a fan of strawmanning. His favorite strawman is that anyone who criticizes Matrix Games' pricing/distribution policies clearly thinks they are doing badly as a company and are on the verge of collapse. I suspect, therefore, that his quote there is a not-very-well-thought-out jab at such folks instead of being an actual statement of belief. I think. It's possible that he's just being an idiot there, though, since he was also the guy dumb enough to claim "Matrix never tells even their developers (like myself!) what their sales figures are, they don't need to tell anyone!", which turned out to be untrue - it's just that the sales figures weren't passed on to him personally because he wasn't in charge of that poo poo. That silliness aside, though, the thread in question has surprisingly little derp in it, quite a bit of support for Steam, plus a very handy and informative link-dump from gradenko that should go a long way towards quieting some of the more obstinate nay-sayers. It's nice to see that not everyone on the Matrix forums is a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal.
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Dec 7, 2013 00:58
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Fintilgin posted:Aren't an awful lot of these games made by like one or (maaaybe) two guys anyway? I imagine production cost is pretty low for the realm of video games. The common problem is that only a few games actually make some degree of profit, so the publisher takes the hit. And the production costs can be pretty handsome if you count purchasing some out of print book on Landser sock knit patterns and materials 1942-1944 on eBay for $500. This is precisely the type of thing that grognards pay attention to!
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Dec 7, 2013 01:01
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Tomn posted:It's possible that he's just being an idiot there, though, since he was also the guy dumb enough to claim "Matrix never tells even their developers (like myself!) what their sales figures are, they don't need to tell anyone!", which turned out to be untrue - it's just that the sales figures weren't passed on to him personally because he wasn't in charge of that poo poo. I'm really glad to hear that rumor was false. EDIT: Also, in response to Alchenar, since I don't want to derail the Matrix thread too much with talk of Battlefront, I really hate Battlefront's DRM. In a thread where someone complained their game wasn't working they recently said: quote:If you have made certain changes to your computer, this could invalidate your activation and produce this error. Is this specifically for AoD ? Please open a ticket in the Helpdesk and we can send you some utilities to delete your current AoD activation and allow you to reactivate with your current hardware configuration. 
Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 7, 2013 01:27
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It might just be wishful thinking, but I have noticed that every time one of these Steam/price threads crop up on Matrix (and I let myself get dragged into posting them) there's a little less kool-aid and a little more people saying "yeah I buy stuff on Steam all the time I wouldn't ordinarily do. PS. Hey Matrix I'm that mainstream gamer you claim doesn't exist who also likes wargames".
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Dec 7, 2013 01:30
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I have another question about the case yellow stuff, now with the HQs and their radius, I take it I need to be in the green zone to get the bonus combat modifier. What about the next level up with armies and with supply? Meaning, do I need to try and keep the corps HQs within the radius of the army HQs, and if I do is this for combat or does it effect supply as well? As I read the rules it seems to say that (for example) as France my supply is generated in Paris with the army generale, then it can move up to 240 AP worth to the next level HQ (the first army group), then get filtered to the army HQs and finally the corps. 240 ap seems a long way so I don't have to really worry about over extending my supply lines, am I correct? And does say a corps HQ being in the green radius of an army HQ filter down some sort of combined combat modifier?
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Dec 7, 2013 18:39
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As far as I understand it, the colored overlay you get when you select an HQ is the range of its command bonus for combat. Units need to be within the green zone to benefit from the bonus. The Corps HQ does not have to be within command range of its parent Army, but units directly attached to the Army HQ should be in command range of their parent Army. For supply, supply will either flow from OKH to your units, or from OKH to the unit's parent HQ then to the unit, whichever is cheaper in AP. It's usually the former because OKH gets a discount on the 250 AP supply movement consumption when moving along a rail-head that parent HQs don't. It's Case Blue that has some new optional "hardcore" rule where supply always has to flow from high command to parent HQ then to the unit.
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Dec 7, 2013 19:15
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Unity of Command: Black Turn today  Who's getting it?
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Dec 10, 2013 12:49
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Downloading it right now! Protip, get it from unityofcommand.net. You'll still get a steam key, and you don't have to wait for it to unlock. Everyone should get this game. The base game and Red Turn is even 50% off right now, so there's NO EXCUSE.
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Dec 10, 2013 14:54
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Is Shadow President a grognard game? A game about loving up other countries sounds fun and I'm trying to learn how to play it, but I'm not sure if I have the patience to deal with all the spreadsheets.
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Dec 10, 2013 18:15
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Parallax Scroll posted:Is Shadow President a grognard game? A game about loving up other countries sounds fun and I'm trying to learn how to play it, but I'm not sure if I have the patience to deal with all the spreadsheets. I would almost classify this as a proto-Paradox Grand Strategy game, and indeed it has come up several times in the Paradox thread, but sure, field a discussion here if you like. I tried playing it as well, I just got fatigued from how many clicks and interface hoops I had to jump through just to access information, and just to issue some commands.
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Dec 10, 2013 19:28
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Parallax Scroll posted:Is Shadow President a grognard game? A game about loving up other countries sounds fun and I'm trying to learn how to play it, but I'm not sure if I have the patience to deal with all the spreadsheets. The economic side of things is really weird and atomistic (there's no downside to just granting every non-Soviet nation MFN status, the vast majority of actions have no real consequences other than to inexorably erode your popularity for reasons no one can explain, etc), and the military side is really difficult to control. It's also incredibly slow. If answering popups like "Haiti wants to engage in a cultural exchange program Y/N" over and over for hours and occasionally getting frustrated and nuking Mozambique, then getting assassinated and starting over sounds like fun, go for it, but there are probably better choices if you're just looking for a grand strategy game.
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Dec 10, 2013 21:10
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Is Command: Modern Air Naval Operations worth picking up? I freakin love Janes Fleet command and want something more comprehensive and complex.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:37
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Cumshot in the Dark posted:Is Command: Modern Air Naval Operations worth picking up? I freakin love Janes Fleet command and want something more comprehensive and complex. If you like Jane's Fleet Command you'll probably like Command if you can stomach the $80 price tag. I personally don't think Command deserves the price tag it has but ymmv. You should also probably read this: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/10/04/wot-i-think-command-modern-air-naval-operations/
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Dec 10, 2013 23:42
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Baloogan has some of his edutainment streams of Command in here a couple pages back around launch if you'd like to see it in action. It'll convince you to buy it but it won't lower the lovely price any.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:48
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Just point out to any bacement dwellers who think its a bad idea to let valve sell their games on steam that rail / train simulator seems to be doing pretty good and thoes game are spergy as gently caress. Does anyone know when the new hearts of iron (the new cold war one) is coming out? I am interested by these types of games but ill be hosed before i fork over 90 bucks to matrix for a non steam game. Crash74 fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 02:26
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Crash74 posted:Just point out to any bacement dwellers who think its a bad idea to let valve sell their games on steam that rail / train simulator seems to be doing pretty good and thoes game are spergy as gently caress. East vs west looks like it is going to be hot garbage, do not get it at launch/ever.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:40
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uPen posted:East vs west looks like it is going to be hot garbage, do not get it at launch/ever. Really? How so? I was looking forward to crushing the capitalist pig dogs.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:47
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Crash74 posted:Really? How so? I was looking forward to crushing the capitalist pig dogs. Well, it depends a bit on what you're looking for, but the thing is that the game seems to be focusing on being a World War 3 simulator instead of a Cold War simulator - there's spergy amounts of details on the exact weaponry you put on your carriers and the exact loadout of your nukes, for instance, and almost nothing spent on poo poo like politics, diplomacy and the economy, which, y'know, kind of the defining points of the Cold War. Also, they did a really stupid/silly thing where instead of researching/making up characters for party leaders and government heads and such, they opened up a contest on their forums where the best entries could become characters. Self-insert revolutionary leaders ahoy - I think one winning entry was basically "The GOOD Wehrmacht general who fought brilliantly but hated Hitler and ended up recreating the Empire of Prussia/Germany after the war ended." That said, I guess if you focus more on the Hot War aspects of the Cold War, East vs West might be worth a spin, maybe, but the dev diaries don't really show a team who are entirely on the ball as far as good design goes. It is definitely not going to be much good as a Cold War sim, though. Edit: Side note, the response on Matrix Games to rail simulators is "They don't count, they're not WARGAMES, they're not realistic complex strategy that plebs can't understand, wargames are just DIFFERENT from everything, other niches included." Tomn fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 03:05
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