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Doltos posted:Many things are wrong with Boyd but if you want to discuss that instead of saying oh It's Doltos then I'm willing to do that instead of being passive aggressive about it. It just seemed pretty dismissive while saying you'd be OK with McCarron going to some QB-needy team.
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Dec 9, 2013 18:57
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bhsman posted:It just seemed pretty dismissive while saying you'd be OK with McCarron going to some QB-needy team. Eh that's why I like to ask people to explain their opinions instead of jumping on them. Boyd has a variety of issues that McCarron doesn't. He makes dumb, dumb decisions constantly. His coaching staff has been on record saying that he has trouble with communicating the calls from the sideline. He's not as bad as Hundley or Morris with dropping his eyes, but he does it often. He knows he's fast and he throws on the run well, which keeps him from doing simple things like working the pocket or going through progressions. This problem is exacerbated by his height. McCarron does not have the arm strength and he's not as fast, but he's a capable athlete with a decent arm. More importantly, he is an accomplished starter in a tough conference. He manages the ball well, has a prototypical QB build, rarely turns it over, has superb accuracy, and only looked bad so far against Mississippi State this year. That's kind of why I think McCarron would be good in the NFL while Boyd wouldn't.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:12
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My problem with McCarron, though, is that all we're seeing from him athletically now is all we can expect to see from him later. He has poor deep ball accuracy and arm strength and is never asked to put the game on his shoulders before the defense or the running game. He plays with the best team in the league and doesn't seem to take advantage of it. On the other hand Boyd has all the physical tools to succeed, it might just be a matter of coaching up. One of those is far more likely to get you a higher draft pick than the other.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:22
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To me AJ McCarron seems like the next Ken Dorsey. I would take any other top rated QB in the draft over McCarron. But we're drafting Bridgewater so this will be a non-issue. Edit: Doltos, if you would be so kind would you mind giving your personal scouting report on Bridgewater and where you think he should, not will, be drafted? Kirios fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Dec 9, 2013 |
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Dec 9, 2013 19:25
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Granted, which makes the draft process unscientific. I think it comes down to preference, as many athletic and non-athletic QBs are taken high or low depending on the circumstances. I think if you wanted someone like Boyd in this draft, why not target Manziel, Morris, or Hundley? McCarron's only competition is Bridgewater and Carr, and he's got a much better college pedigree than Carr.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:28
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Kirios posted:To me AJ McCarron seems like the next Ken Dorsey. I would take any other top rated QB in the draft over McCarron. me earlier in the thread posted:Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville, 1st Edit: should be a top 15 pick
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Dec 9, 2013 19:30
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Has anyone heard anything about Davante Adams declaring? I have really fallen in love with this guy over the past few weeks. Hell, I've fallen in love with this draft class. I would not be at all surprised if we saw seven WRs from this draft go on to have 10+ year careers in the NFL. Sammy Watkins, Jordan Matthews, Davante Adams, and Allen Robinson all seem really solid and then you have the higher risk and higher reward guys like Marquise Lee and Mike Evans. Add to that a Kelvin Benjamin and Brandon Coleman as guys who might blow up in the pros. It all works out to me being really sad when the Ravens don't draft a receiver...again.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:30
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Mettenberger is a senior, by the way.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:33
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Quest For Glory II posted:Mettenberger is a senior, by the way. Red shirt senior.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:34
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Kirios posted:To me AJ McCarron seems like the next Ken Dorsey. I would take any other top rated QB in the draft over McCarron. The talent around McCarron creates the usual question marks, but he's probably going to be slightly better than Croyle or McElroy. My guess based on his measurables and play style is that his best-case scenario is being another Matt Schaub.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:34
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TheChirurgeon posted:The talent around McCarron creates the usual question marks, but he's probably going to be slightly better than Croyle or McElroy. My guess based on his measurables and play style is that his best-case scenario is being another Matt Schaub. And he could, but he'd have to be put in a situation where he can prove he has the arm strength and can make tough throws, but those questions alone would keep me from drafting him until the 5th, at best.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:38
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Oh how the gently caress is Shottenheimer still getting OC gigs
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Dec 9, 2013 19:44
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Doltos posted:Last year's draft blew for many reasons and this QB class is undoubtedly miles ahead of Manuel, Smith, and Barkley. It's still not exceptionally good, but I wouldn't be that bothered if Bridgewater, Carr, Manziel, or McCarron ended up on a QB starved team. Not Tahj Boyd though. Never Tahj Boyd. Mettenberger is going this year no matter what. He's going to be the best value QB for a team looking for a backup or waiting till later rounds to give a guy with upside a shot at outcompeting someone in camp (Russel Wilson style but I wouldn't dare say he's that good).
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Dec 9, 2013 19:46
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Doltos posted:Granted, which makes the draft process unscientific. The thing that scares me about Boyd is that he's got the Ponder rep of deciding where he'll throw presnap, then starring down the receiver, and running if his first read isn't there. His height isn't ideal, but his arm strength is excellent. He could develop into a good QB at the next level, but he's probably not someone that you should bring in as a day one starter. As for McCarron, he's already viewed as good at progressing through his reads and being able to hit 3rd or 4th options on plays. I know there are some questions about his ability to read defenses, likely because he's played behind excellent an excellent OL his entire career and his arm strength isn't great, but appears to be sufficient. McCarron's probably someone who could have success as a game manager or good backup in the next level and could probably start early. I think the biggest concern with McCarron is that he was surrounded by great talent his entire career, so it can be difficult to discern how much of their success was him and how much was the players around him. The Senior Bowl will be critical for him and will decide whether he's a 1st or 3rd round pick.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:59
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MJBuddy posted:Mettenberger is going this year no matter what. He's going to be the best value QB for a team looking for a backup or waiting till later rounds to give a guy with upside a shot at outcompeting someone in camp (Russel Wilson style but I wouldn't dare say he's that good). Is he? I heard a lot about him going back and I assume he can't be happy ending up as a late round backup with his talent. The ACL tear was super unfortunate considering that he probably would have graded out fantastically in the combine since there's no such thing as a pass rush in throwing drills.
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Dec 9, 2013 20:05
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Aniki posted:The thing that scares me about Boyd is that he's got the Ponder rep of deciding where he'll throw presnap, then starring down the receiver, and running if his first read isn't there. His height isn't ideal, but his arm strength is excellent. He could develop into a good QB at the next level, but he's probably not someone that you should bring in as a day one starter. Not only did McCarron have amazing talent around him, he got a lot of favorable looks from teams trying to stop the Alabama run game. Which is not to say that he can't be pro-bowl good, but he shouldn't be a first-round pick.
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Dec 9, 2013 20:08
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ZenVulgarity posted:Oh how the gently caress is Shottenheimer still getting OC gigs By having the last name Schottenheimer
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Dec 9, 2013 20:10
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TheChirurgeon posted:Not only did McCarron have amazing talent around him, he got a lot of favorable looks from teams trying to stop the Alabama run game. Which is not to say that he can't be pro-bowl good, but he shouldn't be a first-round pick. I see McCarron as a solid second rounder that's no worse than any of the other second round QB success stories. He undoubtedly was able to perform in his style due to the players around him, and like you said, most notably due to the run game. sportsgenius86 posted:By having the last name Schottenheimer Which oddly doesn't work for Marty
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Dec 9, 2013 20:12
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sportsgenius86 posted:By having the last name Schottenheimer Its a really good last name.
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Dec 9, 2013 20:12
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Doltos posted:Is he? I heard a lot about him going back and I assume he can't be happy ending up as a late round backup with his talent. The ACL tear was super unfortunate considering that he probably would have graded out fantastically in the combine since there's no such thing as a pass rush in throwing drills. He was getting some late-first round grades before the injury, and considering that he's not like Boyd or Hundley in that his mobility isn't a big factor to his game compared to his arm strength and accuracy, he could still be a high pick. I'm personally hoping the injury drops him to the #33/65th pick so the Texans can snatch him up. Rest him behind Keenum for a year, let Clowney/Barr and Watt destroy some fools, and end up with a good pick in 2015.  We already have a version of Juice and ODB in Hopkins/Posey and Andre, respectively.Doltos posted:I see McCarron as a solid second rounder that's no worse than any of the other second round QB success stories. He undoubtedly was able to perform in his style due to the players around him, and like you said, most notably due to the run game. ...that's what we're saying, though? McCarron won't have such favorable looks in the pro game. I think a 2nd rounder is way too generous for him. VVV My basis for sticking with Keenum (or even Yates, really) is that we'd have a cheap QB for a year, which would give us more cap space to sign Watt to an extension, rather than taking Bridgewater and giving him a bigger deal. bhsman fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Dec 9, 2013 |
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Dec 9, 2013 20:12
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bhsman posted:He was getting some late-first round grades before the injury, and considering that he's not like Boyd or Hundley in that his mobility isn't a big factor to his game compared to his arm strength and accuracy, he could still be a high pick. I'm personally hoping the injury drops him to the #33/65th pick so the Texans can snatch him up. Rest him behind Keenum for a year, let Clowney/Barr and Watt destroy some fools, and end up with a good pick in 2015. The Texans getting Clowney would be incredible. I really don't think they should give up on Keenum just yet as getting Clowney would make them rival the Parcells era Giants. bhsman posted:...that's what we're saying, though? McCarron won't have such favorable looks in the pro game. I think a 2nd rounder is way too generous for him. Hey every QB has knocks and you can't ignore them. I just don't discount him as much for having great players around him since he was also contributing to those wins ever since he took over for McElroy. Doltos fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Dec 9, 2013 |
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Dec 9, 2013 20:14
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Doltos posted:Which oddly doesn't work for Marty Marty is also 70 years old
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Dec 9, 2013 20:20
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Doltos posted:The Texans getting Clowney would be incredible. I really don't think they should give up on Keenum just yet as getting Clowney would make them rival the Parcells era Giants. Well plus Keenum's biggest issue--being unable to read or identify blitzes--is something you can coach up and scheme around, and with improvements to the run game and offensive line, he can be a serviceable, if high-variance starter until the team can grab someone better while the defense owns the poo poo out of everyone. Though I want to point out that as much as I like Clowney, the Texans run a 3-4 and as such I don't know that you're making best use of Clowney using him as a 3-4 DE or moving him to OLB. You could try to move the team to a 4-3, but then you risk not getting the most out of Watt, which is a much worse deal.
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Dec 9, 2013 20:22
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Doltos posted:Is he? I heard a lot about him going back and I assume he can't be happy ending up as a late round backup with his talent. The ACL tear was super unfortunate considering that he probably would have graded out fantastically in the combine since there's no such thing as a pass rush in throwing drills. I don't think he has a choice. He's out of eligibility I believe.
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Dec 9, 2013 20:23
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TheChirurgeon posted:Though I want to point out that as much as I like Clowney, the Texans run a 3-4 and as such I don't know that you're making best use of Clowney using him as a 3-4 DE or moving him to OLB. You could try to move the team to a 4-3, but then you risk not getting the most out of Watt, which is a much worse deal. Clowney wouldn't be the first 4-3 DE to be drafted as a 3-4 OLB, and any good 3-4 defense makes use of 4-man fronts for nickel and dime formations. Watt has also seen snaps all over the front this year, from 3-4 DE to 4-3 DT and DE, respectively, and with success.. As I've mentioned before, his sack-strip-fumble recovery tornado of death against the Cardinals came from the 4-3 LDE position.
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Dec 9, 2013 20:26
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I think the Texans should go Bridgewater/ASJ. That would be such a nasty combo. I want ASJ on the Bucs but there's no way he's around for our second pick. Now that the Bucs seem determined to play their way out of the top five I'm hoping for Sammy Watkins as the first pick. We've got virtually no speed on offense and there won't be a great DE available at our pick. I would also accept the USC WR who's name currently escapes me.
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Dec 9, 2013 20:40
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Doltos posted:The Texans getting Clowney would be incredible. I really don't think they should give up on Keenum just yet as getting Clowney would make them rival the Parcells era Giants. I feel like the Giants had more than three really good defenders and eight guys who are just bodies
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Dec 9, 2013 20:43
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Has anyone heard anything about Davante Adams declaring? I have really fallen in love with this guy over the past few weeks. Hell, I've fallen in love with this draft class. I would not be at all surprised if we saw seven WRs from this draft go on to have 10+ year careers in the NFL. Sammy Watkins, Jordan Matthews, Davante Adams, and Allen Robinson all seem really solid and then you have the higher risk and higher reward guys like Marquise Lee and Mike Evans. Add to that a Kelvin Benjamin and Brandon Coleman as guys who might blow up in the pros. Personally I think Marquise Lee is one of the least risky WRs in his class. Yeah he's a little limited athletically, but he'll be pretty far removed from the knee injury by the time May rolls around (moreso than Keenan Allen was, anyway) and his ball skills and route-running savvy are absolutely top of the class imo. He's just a really polished prospect and I absolutely think he can contribute to an NFL team right away. I really hope Baalke was at the Fresno State-San Jose State game a couple weeks ago to scout Adams, I don't know if he's entered first round consideration yet but if we could snag him with one of our seconds I'd be ecstatic. Preferably after a corner in the first, although they might have to move up for one of the good ones.
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Dec 9, 2013 21:05
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What's the story on free agent QBs next offseason, if we did pass on Cutler and Bridgewater for a stopgap year with Keenum or a late-rounder?
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Dec 9, 2013 21:13
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TheChirurgeon posted:Though I want to point out that as much as I like Clowney, the Texans run a 3-4 and as such I don't know that you're making best use of Clowney using him as a 3-4 DE or moving him to OLB. You could try to move the team to a 4-3, but then you risk not getting the most out of Watt, which is a much worse deal. I thought Phillips employs an almost down lineman for his weakside OLB. Intruder posted:I feel like the Giants had more than three really good defenders and eight guys who are just bodies Their three really good defenders were Banks, Carson, and LT but they had a few 'just bodies' too. Maybe comparing the Texans to arguably the best LB corps of all time was a little too excessive, but let's just say Watt + Clowney would be terrifying.
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Dec 9, 2013 21:17
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My worries about Lee are probably unreasonable but a guy that size who already has an injury history does concern me. That said the guy plays like a substantially better Derrick Mason, which is pretty much the highest praise I can give a receiver. I would be very comfortable with taking Davante Adams in the first. Dude looks like a Cordarrelle Patterson but with great hands.
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Dec 9, 2013 21:18
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Elotana posted:What's the story on free agent QBs next offseason, if we did pass on Cutler and Bridgewater for a stopgap year with Keenum or a late-rounder? Cutler is the best FA...by a long shot. Pos Player FA Status Previous Team Current Team QB Derek Anderson UFA Carolina Panthers Free Agent QB Kellen Clemens UFA St. Louis Rams Free Agent QB Jay CutlerNew player news! UFA Chicago Bears Free Agent QB Pat DevlinNew player news! RFA Miami Dolphins Free Agent QB Matt Flynn UFA Green Bay Packers Free Agent QB Josh Freeman UFA Minnesota Vikings Free Agent QB Rex GrossmanNew player news! UFA Washington Redskins Free Agent QB Caleb HanieNew player news! UFA Cleveland Browns Free Agent QB Chad Henne UFA Jacksonville Jaguars Free Agent QB Shaun Hill UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent QB Tarvaris Jackson UFA Seattle Seahawks Free Agent QB Josh McCown UFA Chicago Bears Free Agent QB Luke McCown UFA New Orleans Saints Free Agent QB Dan Orlovsky UFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers Free Agent QB Charlie Whitehurst UFA San Diego Chargers Free Agent
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Dec 9, 2013 21:19
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Elotana posted:What's the story on free agent QBs next offseason, if we did pass on Cutler and Bridgewater for a stopgap year with Keenum or a late-rounder? Assuming Cutler gets a new contract/franchise tagged, Mike Vick is the only starting level QB on the market. Comedy option: trading for RGIII after he becomes persona non grata in Washington quote:I think it comes down to preference, as many athletic and non-athletic QBs are taken high or low depending on the circumstances. I think if you wanted someone like Boyd in this draft, why not target Manziel, Morris, or Hundley? McCarron's only competition is Bridgewater and Carr, and he's got a much better college pedigree than Carr. If the knock on McCarron is that he was playing on an absurdly talented offense, you can make that same knock against Boyd, who had the luxury of tossing to two elite wide receivers his whole career. Not that I think Boyd is a terrible prospect or anything, but he's been throwing to much better receivers than any other quarterback in this draft. Emanuel Collective fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Dec 9, 2013 |
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Dec 9, 2013 21:20
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Looks like someone needs to unleash the dragon, Sexy Rexy available.
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Dec 9, 2013 21:25
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Shath Hole posted:Cutler is the best FA...by a long shot. QB Brett Favre UFA Minnesota Vikings Free Agent
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Dec 9, 2013 21:27
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Emanuel Collective posted:If the knock on McCarron is that he was playing on an absurdly talented offense, you can make that same knock against Boyd, who had the luxury of tossing to two elite wide receivers his whole career. Not that I think Boyd is a terrible prospect or anything, but he's been throwing to much better receivers than any other quarterback in this draft. Hey listen you don't need to give me further reasons to not like Boyd, but that is again one of them. I kind of don't like the "he was surrounded by great talent" argument for any prospect if they're contributing to that great talent. Like there are plenty of QBs that were absolutely terrible on great teams (note, LSU before Mettenberger got there), and then there are guys like McCarron who carry their fair share of the slack. Same with Boyd. Like let's make it clear that Boyd is a fantastic college player. He'll just probably suck in the NFL.
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Dec 9, 2013 21:30
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Doltos posted:and then there are guys like McCarron who carry their fair share of the slack. wait you can't be serious.
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Dec 9, 2013 21:30
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Cutler is absolutely going to get tagged if not locked up, the best free agent QB options are realistically Campbell, Freeman, and Josh McCown in that order imo.
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Dec 9, 2013 21:32
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Grozz Nuy posted:Cutler is absolutely going to get tagged if not locked up, the best free agent QB options are realistically Campbell, Freeman, and Josh McCown in that order imo. Emery has publicly stated that he is not in favor of tagging the QB position in general so I don't think that is a forgone conclusion.
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Dec 9, 2013 21:34
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Shath Hole posted:Emery has publicly stated that he is not in favor of tagging the QB position in general so I don't think that is a forgone conclusion. He's not in favor of it because he'd rather have him under contract. He'll do it if contract negotiations fall apart. The team has no plans for moving on without Cutler next season. Emanuel Collective fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Dec 9, 2013 |
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Dec 9, 2013 21:37
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