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Pablo Bluth posted:The general view is that Canon have made a not-even-half-hearted attempt at developing a class-leading mirrorless system, so The Internet has responded by pretending it doesn't exist. EOS M2 will be Asia markets only from the looks of it. Canon and Nikon are very late to the mirrorless game. They should have just kept to making GBS threads out entry level dslrs. Most Americans and uneducated photo-idiots are size queens and think that mirrorless cameras are the Geo Metro of cameras, making them worthless. I run into this often at one of the gardens I photograph at often. "That tiny thing takes good pics? Cant take as good of a pic as MONSTER DSRL" with 18-300mm shitlens attached. You cant take photos with anything less than a D900. Musket fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Dec 9, 2013 |
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Dec 9, 2013 23:07
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whatever7 posted:The sale of mirrorless systems (specially the Nikon1 and EOS M)are so bad in American both of them are basically delaying the announcement of new mirrorless bodies. whatever7 posted:I don't know what will it take for the 'Muricans starting buying mirorless They buy plenty of good mirrorless systems. Musket posted:EOS M2 will be Asia markets only from the looks of it. Canon and Nikon are very late to the mirrorless game. They should have just kept to making GBS threads out entry level dslrs. Most Americans and uneducated photo-idiots are size queens and think that mirrorless cameras are the Geo Metro of cameras, making them worthless.
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Dec 9, 2013 23:12
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Panasonic, olympus, and fuji are in the business of stealing market share from DSLRs, and still have a lot of work to do before they can rival the depth and versatility of Canon's and Nikon's offerings. Likewise, Canon and Nikon are in the business of getting people locked into their systems so that they continue to upgrade within the product family. Getting people to switch from their DSLRs to mirrorless doesn't really help that much. Clearly mirrorless isn't something they can ignore forever, but they also have time to get it right since their short-term survival doesn't depend on competing in that segment. I'm sure Canon will release another body, but probably not until they can put their new PDAF sensors in it and make a big marketing campaign really worth it.
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Dec 9, 2013 23:48
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Spime Wrangler posted:Panasonic, olympus, and fuji are in the business of stealing market share from DSLRs, and still have a lot of work to do before they can rival the depth and versatility of Canon's and Nikon's offerings.
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Dec 9, 2013 23:54
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Nikon might have hobbled themselves with the choice of a small sensor, but there's no doubt they went full out to make the best camera they could. From day 1, they threw everything they could at it to make speed a hallmark of the system.
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Dec 10, 2013 00:05
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Pablo Bluth posted:Nikon might have hobbled themselves with the choice of a small sensor, but there's no doubt they went full out to make the best camera they could. From day 1, they threw everything they could at it to make speed a hallmark of the system. Not a hallmark that most people appreciated, going by the sales where I'm at. It's barely even selling, and I've only seen it a few times around, as compared to every other camera model.
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Dec 10, 2013 00:32
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Spime Wrangler posted:Panasonic, olympus, and fuji are in the business of stealing market share from DSLRs, and still have a lot of work to do before they can rival the depth and versatility of Canon's and Nikon's offerings. They (Canon) already have the loving sensor, they are just taking their sweet time. In another photography forum I hang out, we all call Canon "The Toothpaste Company" because thats how they treat their technology reserve. The D100/SL1 is selling? Great lets squeeze out a white one and they will all eat it up. Why put in more advance technology in the new gear if the old one is selling? I will believe Canon is making an honest attempt to produce the best camera they can make when they put eye control back to their bodies. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 00:49
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Pablo Bluth posted:Nikon might have hobbled themselves with the choice of a small sensor, but there's no doubt they went full out to make the best camera they could. From day 1, they threw everything they could at it to make speed a hallmark of the system.
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Dec 10, 2013 01:02
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The traditional DSLR body still has a ton of selling power because it's evocative of a tool. Serious gear for serious people. The mirrorless bodies sitting in Best Buy still look like gadgets to most people. "Pros shoot (Canon/Nikon) cameras that are big and bulky for a reason." If would be interesting to see what Canon could do if it wasn't locked into the upgrade path. They're sort of forced to push their mirrorless further into point & shoot territory so they don't cannibalize their T3i business. But think if they really just went whole-hog on a system. Give it a stronger form, work out a lens system that used or adapted easily to the EF mount. They could even sell it as the "premier" body for FD mount, maybe pack in a first-party adapter. I mean, I know those lenses adapt to the M mount as well as anything else, but you could really sell the hell out of it if you wanted to. That way they could still feed med students buying used bodies into doctors buying L series glass or whatever it is people with money do. It's just a shame that they really don't need to do that. At least not yet. Huxley fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 01:38
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Edit for something other than just double posting in shame: I looked seriously at the Nex system, older XXD bodies and the EOS M, but it was pretty clear Canon wasn't taking the mirrorless seriously. It broke my heart because I loved my S90 and had a hint of brand loyalty brewing, but the M was such an inferior product--and the Txi bodies were still so much more expensive, I went with Sony instead. And in 2-3 years I'll probably upgrade my 3N into whatever the newest version of the 6 is because I'll have built up a system by then.
Huxley fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 01:40
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On the EOS M talk, Newegg has it with the 18-55mm lens for $279 right now.
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Dec 10, 2013 02:26
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Huxley posted:Edit for something other than just double posting in shame: I looked seriously at the Nex system, older XXD bodies and the EOS M, but it was pretty clear Canon wasn't taking the mirrorless seriously. It broke my heart because I loved my S90 and had a hint of brand loyalty brewing, but the M was such an inferior product--and the Txi bodies were still so much more expensive, I went with Sony instead. And in 2-3 years I'll probably upgrade my 3N into whatever the newest version of the 6 is because I'll have built up a system by then. EOS M is really not that bad of a product compare to NEX3 and Samsung whatever cheapo body. It just has no lens. Consider its new street price, 220-250, its not an inferior product. I don't want to break the news of the NEX low end lens to you.
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Dec 10, 2013 02:39
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whatever7 posted:EOS M is really not that bad of a product compare to NEX3 and Samsung whatever cheapo body. It just has no lens. Consider its new street price, 220-250, its not an inferior product. I don't want to break the news of the NEX low end lens to you. The Sony 18-55mm is an urban legend, there exists only the Sigma 30/2.8.
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Dec 10, 2013 02:45
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whatever7 posted:EOS M is really not that bad of a product compare to NEX3 and Samsung whatever cheapo body. It just has no lens. Consider its new street price, 220-250, its not an inferior product. I don't want to break the news of the NEX low end lens to you. Oh yeah, I haven't shot the 16-50 since the day I got the 30/2.8. I'm hanging on to it until I talk myself into selling it for the 19 and cash. I basically still have it so the stupid zoom lever does something other than give me error messages on at least one lens I own. And I agree the 3N has some serious annoyances, but I can at least buy those three Sigmas knowing that I have body options to upgrade into, which the Canon doesn't offer.
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Dec 10, 2013 02:57
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Paul MaudDib posted:The Sony 18-55mm is an urban legend, there exists only the Sigma 30/2.8. The 18-55 is a meh. All these slow kit lens does nothing to me. As far as the Sigma 19/30 twins. They are really undervalued at $150 a piece. However the Canon 22mm is a even better value. You can get one for about 150 and its a full step faster. It has all around better stat than the Sigma 19 too. It scores only one point lower than the E24 according to DxO.  I just want to use this chart to make a point that the pricing for the current mirrorless lens are all out of wrack. I am not trying to preach the EOSM system here.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:10
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I'm guessing there is some physical limitation I'm just not aware of as to why they didn't just make it an ef mount, but that pretty much killed any curiosity of getting the eos M. If I could have slapped the 40mm pancake right on the M without adding another inch in to the camera with an adapter and a dent in my wallet, I would have done it day one.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:27
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Claw Massage posted:I'm guessing there is some physical limitation I'm just not aware of as to why they didn't just make it an ef mount, but that pretty much killed any curiosity of getting the eos M.done it day one. It's because the K-01 did that and it sucks hard because it guarantees that you can never have short register-distance lenses. The only way you can make a native-DSLR mount mirrorless is to have it be unreasonably thick for a mirrorless.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:30
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There was a firmware update for the Sony E 18-55 lens that enables phase detection hybrid AF on newer NEX bodies. It doesn't make the IQ any better but at least it's stabilized and focuses faster than before.
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Dec 10, 2013 04:48
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fknlo posted:On the EOS M talk, Newegg has it with the 18-55mm lens for $279 right now. A PEN will still run circles around it, but you can't get that IQ for $300.
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Dec 10, 2013 15:07
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evil_bunnY posted:At this price it's an alright alternative to a premium compact. I picked one up on firesale, and it really is a great little camera when you take the price into account. It fits easily into a jacket pocket with any of the 3 lenses, and delivers far better IQ than a point and shoot in that price range. Definitely what I schlep to parties now, and will probably take it's place as my family vaca camera as well. The 22mm is still pretty slow for focus (however, that is a lot of light gathering in a teeny package..) but the two zooms are snappy, and all my EF lenses I've tried on it are snappy as well. My old pocket shooter was a SX260HS and the focus is definitely faster than that, and the IQ blows it away, so I'm happy. I feel like a kid in a candy store this year - replaced my decade old 10D with a 70D, and picked up the M. I don't think I'd ever recommend it to someone just looking to get into a mirrorless system, but for someone who already shoots canon, has glass, and knows/likes their menus, it's a great little pickup at the cheapy price.
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Dec 10, 2013 16:28
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rexelation posted:There was a firmware update for the Sony E 18-55 lens that enables phase detection hybrid AF on newer NEX bodies. It doesn't make the IQ any better but at least it's stabilized and focuses faster than before. So now you can take more bad photos, faster? Good job Sony.
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Dec 10, 2013 16:37
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http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n131128_02.html 12/19/13 Auto Iso improvements for XE1 and Aperture and shutter speed can be changed once AE lock is selected, as a QOL improvement.
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Dec 10, 2013 19:47
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Musket posted:http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n131128_02.html Does auto ISO stay the value after AE lock is pressed? I don't remember.
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Dec 10, 2013 19:57
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Musket posted:So now you can take more bad photos, faster? Good job Sony. It's quantity over quality for selfies!
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Dec 11, 2013 01:42
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whatever7 posted:Does auto ISO stay the value after AE lock is pressed? I don't remember. Yes my auto iso400 stayed its locked iso value after AE-L was pushed. This is pre-update.
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Dec 11, 2013 19:34
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It just occurred to me - I wonder how the A7/R performs with a LAEA4 and the Sigma 35mm/1.4... That kit would trash any size advantage of the body though...
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Dec 11, 2013 21:15
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krooj posted:It just occurred to me - I wonder how the A7/R performs with a LAEA4 and the Sigma 35mm/1.4... That kit would trash any size advantage of the body though... I've been patiently waiting to see if anyone posts some tests with alpha mount stuff, because the combination you just mentioned and a few other tasty options (like the Zeiss 85)really have my interest piqued. I know a $3500 'cron is amazing, but I can't justify blowing Leicabux on a non-Leica system.
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Dec 12, 2013 02:30
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krackmonkey posted:I've been patiently waiting to see if anyone posts some tests with alpha mount stuff, because the combination you just mentioned and a few other tasty options (like the Zeiss 85)really have my interest piqued. I know a $3500 'cron is amazing, but I can't justify blowing Leicabux on a non-Leica system. Considering how well regarded that lens is, I was expecting it to be one of the first with some adapted examples. I guess nobody buys A-Mount stuff? You can get a Summicron 35 for about $2200 used if you look, and that's for the current aspherical model. In my mind, even if you never have a rangefinder to mount that lens to, it's still money better spent than yet another body. Those are purely mechanical lenses and could survive you and me with minimal maintenance. I know I've already decided I'm going to buy one of those lenses instead of an A7R come February.
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Dec 12, 2013 03:48
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krackmonkey posted:I've been patiently waiting to see if anyone posts some tests with alpha mount stuff, because the combination you just mentioned and a few other tasty options (like the Zeiss 85)really have my interest piqued. I know a $3500 'cron is amazing, but I can't justify blowing Leicabux on a non-Leica system.
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Dec 13, 2013 00:49
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Microlens arrays don't really allow that though.
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Dec 13, 2013 01:19
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How do you mean? The lens will be at its proper register distance, it should be less susceptible to weird effects than the lenses designed for the system.
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Dec 13, 2013 02:08
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Paul MaudDib posted:How do you mean? The lens will be at its proper register distance, it should be less susceptible to weird effects than the lenses designed for the system. I mean this part: Bob Socko posted:My a99 worked great with the Zeiss 24 & 85, as well as the Minolta 35/2. Since the a7 supposedly uses the same sensor as the a99, image quality should be the same with the LA-EA4. assumes the existing lenses will be as good adapted on an A7 as used natively, which won't be true if the array's optimized for nex-native lenses.
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Dec 13, 2013 13:26
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I've been using an EOS M for a little over a month and it's a nice little camera. Attaching anything larger than the EF-M 18-55 lens makes it look ridiculous, though - for kicks I took it out for a bit with my Canon 75-300 and it was a little bit unwieldy. The touchscreen is very responsive and the IQ is pretty great for what you get. $279 is a steal.
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Dec 13, 2013 19:23
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Pablo Bluth posted:Nikon might have hobbled themselves with the choice of a small sensor, but there's no doubt they went full out to make the best camera they could. From day 1, they threw everything they could at it to make speed a hallmark of the system. The speed is nice but it in no way made up for the lovely UI, hobbled firmware (Nikon hobbles all their firmware to segment the market so no big surprise but it still sucks), lovely lens selection, incompatibility with a standard hotshoe and way-too-high introductory pricing. I was just thinking the other day how if they'd taken the time they spent on the slow motion video feature, which is badass, and instead made a not terrible UI w/o features intentionally left out the camera would be so much better. Or if they'd left out Motion Snapshot and polished the UI. Compared to the Fuji X-series with its firmware updates that add features, kick rear end lens selection and roadmap, and nice feature set the Nikon 1 system seems incredibly tonedeaf. It's not the small sensor that made the Nikon 1 suck, the sensor is actually pretty good. What made the Nikon 1 suck was pretty much every other thing about the camera.
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Dec 13, 2013 20:12
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Ulysses S. Grant posted:I've been using an EOS M for a little over a month and it's a nice little camera. Attaching anything larger than the EF-M 18-55 lens makes it look ridiculous, though - for kicks I took it out for a bit with my Canon 75-300 and it was a little bit unwieldy. The touchscreen is very responsive and the IQ is pretty great for what you get. $279 is a steal. I love popping my 50/1.4 on there and taking flashless pictures of my toddler being adorable. It is definitely a steal for the price
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Dec 13, 2013 20:28
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It's a japanese electronics company. It literally took them 10 years to get a semi-decent DSLR UI, and you expect usability out of the box? Surely you jest. Surely.
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Dec 13, 2013 20:29
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I had been looking at the Nex 6 for an upcoming trip and have since decided to downsize my photo equipment collection. I just shipped off a body and three lenses to Amazon for trade-in. I never got a response for quote from KEH but Amazon seems to give a bit more for the stuff I traded. It looks like Sony is moving to the E-mount adding new bodies like the a3000 and a7/a7r so switching to the E-mount platform can have me set up for lenses to use with an a7 or something similar in the future. I think I have narrowed down my initial setup to be the Nex 6 body, Sony 18-105 F4 G OSS, and the Sony ECM-XYST1M Microphone for any video I want to shoot. After that I'm going to start looking for manual primes.
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Dec 13, 2013 23:59
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If you intend to shoot video, the power zoom lens line is apparently kinda noisy since it has to extend and retract the barrel.
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Dec 14, 2013 00:21
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I know I just jumped on the NEX train a while ago but I now have a big boy job with a real salary and I held a Fuji XE1 today and I fell in love. Someone convince me not to spend $1200 on a craigslist XE1 body and the 35 1.4 
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Dec 14, 2013 00:23
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Martytoof posted:I know I just jumped on the NEX train a while ago but I now have a big boy job with a real salary and I held a Fuji XE1 today and I fell in love. Someone convince me not to spend $1200 on a craigslist XE1 body and the 35 1.4 You can get both of them for $1200 on Amazon new, is that a good reason?
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Dec 14, 2013 00:27
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