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Scott Bakula posted:All they need to do is find someone with huge gambling debts Or even someone piss poor with their money and go through it at a rate of knots, which to be fair isn't particularly unusual for footballers.
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Dec 9, 2013 10:46
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Matt Le Tissier already admitted to kicking the ball out for a throw in as soon as a game kicked off. This is a widely repeated anecdote by him and is a clear example of someone trying to fix an event in a premier league game, but not the result itself.
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Dec 9, 2013 10:47
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Dec 9, 2013 10:48
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I meant entire results being fixed. Plus Le Tissier did that before most PL footballers began earning ridiculous amounts of money. Maybe I'm just naive? I at least reckon there's probably 'fixing' of some kind going on, but the logistics of fixing an entire PL match just doesn't seem worth the effort for these guys unless I'm completely underestimating them.
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Dec 9, 2013 10:53
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That almost certainly won't happen and these players have been arrested for spot fixing, which is what Le Tissier did with the throw-in, rather than fixing the whole result
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Dec 9, 2013 10:55
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Fixing entire results does seem unlikely, however what about red cards that change games? Also just because you earn a lot of money each week doesn't mean you hold on to it or never suffer from gambling addiction.
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Dec 9, 2013 10:58
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Hegav posted:It doesn't make any sense at all to assume that PL matches aren't fixed. It's pretty much the same reasoning as "there's no doping in football so there's no reason to take blood samples". All it takes is for someone to make an not too obvious own goal or maybe get a red card. While I agree with your first sentence I wouldn't really compare it doping. Doping is much more organized on a club level while match fixing is more an individual thing. The risk is much higher in the premier league for both the players and the ones organizing it IMO. Premier League footballers in general are much better paid than players in the other top leagues, they get their wages on time as agreed and there's fewer financial issues in every aspect of the game. You can have a long and good career in the three highest tiers of english football with the chance of earning good money, I'd say that reduces the risk. Match fixers specifically goes after players at clubs, leagues and/or countries with known financial and social problems. There's no coincidence that most of the match fixing cases that's been exposed the last few years have been in southern and eastern europe where the european financial crisis (and the corruption that follows with it) is a lot bigger than in northern european countries. With all that said, it's still naive to believe match fixing is a problem in england but I don't think it's much of an issue in the Premier League, but more in the lower divisions. JFairfax posted:Matt Le Tissier already admitted to kicking the ball out for a throw in as soon as a game kicked off. I remember Claus Lundekvam speaking on tv saying it was usual in the PL to arrange with the other team before kick off for the first throw in or free kick and then earn a nice little chunk of cash on it.
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Dec 9, 2013 11:07
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So I was just looking up Bruce Grobbelaar re match fixing and it turns out he saw action in Zimbabwe. I never knew this and I suppose it makes his attitude a little more understandable, the guy was happy to be alive: Grobbelaar's fledgling career was interrupted when he was called up to fight in the Bush War. He joined the Rhodesian army in 1975, having trained for six weeks outside Bulawayo. "How can I forget or forgive myself for killing a fellow human being, even if it was in a war? I still have nightmares about it. "Everything else in life seems insignificant compared to my years in the forces. During bayonet training, our superiors tried to make it more serious by making us scream, "I'll kill you, you black bastard.' http://bulawayo24.com/index-id-sports-sc-local-byo-37224.h
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Dec 9, 2013 11:19
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Hegav posted:It doesn't make any sense at all to assume that PL matches aren't fixed. It's pretty much the same reasoning as "there's no doping in football so there's no reason to take blood samples". All it takes is for someone to make an not too obvious own goal or maybe get a red card. Sodje said he was paid £70k to get sent off, and fined £10k (2 weeks wages?) When even poo poo premier league players that don't start are picking up £40,000+ a week, how much would a third party have to pay for someone who's actually on the field to risk doing the same? Footballers are notoriously thick, so I'm sure there's a least 1 player who would be involved, but otherwise match fixing should be relatively none existent in the modern premier league, certainly for things like red cards/own goals. gently caress knows what sort of things you can bet on, but anything happening would probably be less game altering, although 20 years ago Le Tissier found it difficult enough to intentionally put the ball out for a throw.
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Dec 9, 2013 11:26
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In order for the bookies to be offering these spot bets in the first place there must be loads of legitimate punters. Who are they? Why is anyone betting on "Number of throw ins before ten minute mark" or w/e?
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Dec 9, 2013 11:43
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Its usually all illegal betting in Asia
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Dec 9, 2013 11:44
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Chinese/Hong Kong live betting, yes.
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Dec 9, 2013 12:01
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pointsofdata posted:In order for the bookies to be offering these spot bets in the first place there must be loads of legitimate punters. Who are they? Why is anyone betting on "Number of throw ins before ten minute mark" or w/e? People good at "micro" betting can earn decent money over time with smallish stakes. Fiver on throws/yellows/reds/corners, over under etc etc. The lines exist because bookies want people to gamble obviously, more lines means more gambling opportunities. Suddenly people will spread X amount of cash on different things in a match as opposed to only being able to chuck money at a result or what have you. Over/under on corners is a logical continuation of being able to bet on the result (W/L/X), score, over/unders on goals, first/anytime goalscorer etc etc. You can bet on almost anything with bookies nowadays, which makes spot fixing much easier to do and you'd need to be paying a fair bit of attention to spot something like a throw in within 10 minutes or something being done deliberately. e: Obviously the bets are placed on markets in Asia simply because a big lumped sum on a benign event in a match that pays out, especially if it starts happening with any regularity, would be picked up by the bookies here and reported immediately. Ninpo fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Dec 9, 2013 |
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Dec 9, 2013 12:02
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Hegav posted:It doesn't make any sense at all to assume that PL matches aren't fixed. It's pretty much the same reasoning as "there's no doping in football so there's no reason to take blood samples". All it takes is for someone to make an not too obvious own goal or maybe get a red card. If this becomes reported as a widespread thing, look for the authorities to severely punish the perpetrators. Otherwise you'll have the same cancerous spread that drugs have wrought on Athletics and Cycling. If people lose faith in the fair contest football may actually be dead and there's a lot of very powerful and very rich people who will lose out. The apparent fairness of the EPL is one of the reasons it sells so well in the Asian markets, losing that is something they would be terrified about. It's also a cheap and popular vote winner in the run-up to an election. One of the parties may think a "sporting fraud" type law with severe penalties would go down well with the voters. Personally, I'd put out a statement which says "If found guilty of spot-fixing not only will you never play football again but we'll sue you for the money and you'll go to jail".
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Dec 9, 2013 12:57
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Barton was paid oil money to let city win the title you heard it here first
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Dec 9, 2013 13:13
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pointsofdata posted:In order for the bookies to be offering these spot bets in the first place there must be loads of legitimate punters. Who are they? Why is anyone betting on "Number of throw ins before ten minute mark" or w/e? For a lot of people, especially gambling addicts, some of these become essentially a form of lottery. Putting a quid on X throwins in a game you know nothing about is not much different from playing a slot machine with 80-85% payout. Imagine all the people you see playing slot machines for hours at a time. Then imagine them with internet connections and basic computer knowledge. Now they can sit in their home and do basically the same thing.
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Dec 9, 2013 14:48
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JFairfax posted:Fixing entire results does seem unlikely, however what about red cards that change games? Also just because you earn a lot of money each week doesn't mean you hold on to it or never suffer from gambling addiction. Gambling addition isn't the issue here. They're not gambling on anything. "Get yourself sent off and I'll give you seventy thousand pounds" is pretty straight-forward.
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Dec 9, 2013 15:18
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sircozzie posted:Gambling addition isn't the issue here. They're not gambling on anything. "Get yourself sent off and I'll give you seventy thousand pounds" is pretty straight-forward. They're not gambling on themselves, a player who has lost his week's wages in a casino is a pretty good candidate for one of these 'fixers' to tap up.
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Dec 9, 2013 15:24
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Total Meatlove posted:They're not gambling on themselves, a player who has lost his week's wages in a casino is a pretty good candidate for one of these 'fixers' to tap up. Ah... I mis-understood. Anyone else read this? http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/football/article3943383.ece
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Dec 9, 2013 15:25
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What I mean is that just because they are in some cases earning several or tens of thousands of pounds a week there are still reasons for players to be open to large cash payments at the highest levels of the game. E/ Beaten like ulrika
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Dec 9, 2013 15:27
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Bodzilla posted:Sodje said he was paid £70k to get sent off, and fined £10k (2 weeks wages?) Sodje was apparently on a grand a week when he punched that lad in the bollocks.
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Dec 9, 2013 18:18
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Spot fixing is almost certainly happening in the premier league most weeks. Even high paid stars are going to be take part when it's basically no risk to get a yellow or concede a free kick at a certain point in the match.
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Dec 9, 2013 18:37
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sircozzie posted:Ah... I mis-understood. That Boro - Man City match springs to mind.
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Dec 9, 2013 18:44
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If I were looking to influence a match where unfortunately all the players are multi -millionaires and would need a COLOSSAL bribe, I'd be disappointed there isn't some kind of person paid comparative peanuts who has some say in how the game goes I could target instead. You know, someone who makes decisions on fouls and yellow cards and things? It's a shame
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Dec 9, 2013 20:15
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sircozzie posted:I meant entire results being fixed. Didn't the *cough* secret footballer say he knew of players doing similar things even now? The story about Nicky Shorey getting called up for England and distilling the entire experience down to "Yeah, it's great! They give you £30k just for your image rights" pretty much sums up how some footballers at the top feel about cash even when they're on stupid money.
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Dec 10, 2013 00:55
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Needledick posted:If I were looking to influence a match where unfortunately all the players are multi -millionaires and would need a COLOSSAL bribe, I'd be disappointed there isn't some kind of person paid comparative peanuts who has some say in how the game goes I could target instead. Yeah I was going to make that point. Don't PL referees make like £80k a year or something? Again, though, too much exposure. Better off getting the referee of some Georgian third-division game some hookers and blow.
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Dec 10, 2013 12:30
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Thel posted:Yeah I was going to make that point. Don't PL referees make like £80k a year or something? They can make up to 60k iirc depending on appearances/expenses claims.
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Dec 10, 2013 12:56
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Bacon of the Sea posted:Didn't the *cough* secret footballer say he knew of players doing similar things even now? The story about Nicky Shorey getting called up for England and distilling the entire experience down to "Yeah, it's great! They give you £30k just for your image rights" pretty much sums up how some footballers at the top feel about cash even when they're on stupid money. Were Kitson and Sodje playing for Reading at the same time?
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Dec 10, 2013 12:58
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Smiley Face posted:Were Kitson and Sodje playing for Reading at the same time? Yes. 2003-2008 then 2009 on loan for Kitson, Sodje was there 2006-2009.
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Dec 10, 2013 13:00
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When Sam Sodje played badly for Leeds I just assumed it was because he was poo poo at football. They need to take a look at some other Grayson signings, they could uncover a whole ring of players who were playing badly on purpose. I refuse to believe Fede Bessone's ineptitude was solely because of a lack of ability
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Dec 10, 2013 13:04
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Remember when Paul Rachubka let in 5 goals in the first half of a game and had to be subbed off? Seems a bit unusual to me, almost as though he let them in on purpose. It just so happened that before he came to Leeds he was at Blackpool, a club previously managed by...Simon Grayson.
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Dec 10, 2013 13:06
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Remember when Huddersfield Town were on their 50-odd game unbeaten run? You'd probably make a lot of money if you bet on the game where they'd finally lose. Which team finally brought Huddersfield's run to an end? Charlton Athletic, the former home of...known match fixer Sam Sodje, who was signed for Leeds by...Simon Grayson. Who became manager of...Huddersfield Town
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Dec 10, 2013 13:11
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In the same team that included characters such as Leroy Lita, Graham Stack, John Halls and Greg Halford.
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Dec 10, 2013 13:12
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the sex ghost posted:Remember when Paul Rachubka let in 5 goals in the first half of a game and had to be subbed off? Seems a bit unusual to me, almost as though he let them in on purpose. It just so happened that before he came to Leeds he was at Blackpool, a club previously managed by...Simon Grayson. its all coming together...
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Dec 10, 2013 14:05
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DJ Campbell has released a statement:DJ Campbell posted:I am 100% innocent, and hope to be available for Blackburn's 1-1 draw this Saturday. Rumours are floating around that the match Cascarino was referring to was the Boro 8-1 City match. Nothing riding on the match and it was the sacking of Sven and all the Thaksin nonsense was going on at the time, when the players weren't sure if they were getting paid. Ninpo fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 14:15
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http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/10/mick-mills-denies-stoke-sexual-assault-claims-george-blackstock Stoke are being sued by a former apprentice player over an initiation "also known as "the Finger," whereby a goalkeeper's glove was smeared with heat cream and used in a sexual assault."
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Dec 10, 2013 16:39
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Beckham wanked over a picture of Clayton Blackmore lmao.
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Dec 10, 2013 16:41
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Scott Bakula posted:http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/10/mick-mills-denies-stoke-sexual-assault-claims-george-blackstock Pfft someone needs to grow a pair. We used to spray Deep Heat on the new guy's bollocks all the time at work before they brought in all these namby pamby 'dignity in the workplace' guidelines and I became an HR manager.
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Dec 10, 2013 17:38
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Scott Bakula posted:http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/10/mick-mills-denies-stoke-sexual-assault-claims-george-blackstock If true the people involved need to be punished. The people haven't been involved in the club for a long time though.
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Dec 10, 2013 18:07
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Byolante posted:If true the people involved need to be punished. The people haven't been involved in the club for a long time though. Yeah I agree, seems like a strange decision to sue the club. It's unlikely anyone around in the 80s (or, at least, anyone in a position to know about "The Finger") is still going to be there, so I'm not sure what the point of it would be. What with the Beckham revelations and everything, seems like we're getting a lot of dirt coming out about club practices at the moment. There's an article on Sky Sports about Keith Gillespie's gambling problems which is a fairly decent read. It was a bit surprising for me to see him say that, after moving to Newcastle from Manchester, he was just left in his hotel room after training with nothing to do, and that's part of the reason he turned to gambling. It's not as if it's much of a distance from Newcastle to Manchester either, must be much worse for foreigners with no ties at all. Wasn't one manager (Mackay?) getting praised on here recently for going around and making sure all new buys got sorted with banks etc.?
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Dec 10, 2013 18:17
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