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Keyser S0ze posted:The actual, physical split is right at Madera, goons - right around the 37th parallel. Yeah, but no one gives a crap where the latitudinal midline blah blah blah is. Some doink in Madera maybe, but seriously, the Monterey Peninsula is south of Madera. That's in the heart of NorCal.
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Dec 10, 2013 21:29
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California Megathread: NorCal vs. SoCal discussion. In actual news, a lawsuit challenging the stupid 10-day waiting period on firearms purchases will be allowed to proceed to trial. http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/2013/12/federal-judge-says-california-attorney-general-kamala-harris-wrong-gun-control-laws/ Scroll past the calguns commentary to read the actual order. TL;DR it doesn't pass strict scrutiny since as applied, it's prior restraint. I can see an argument for having a waiting period for the first firearm, but if you already own one or have a concealed-carry permit, there's no logical reason to have to wait.
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Dec 10, 2013 21:51
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Oh good god.  says the Legislature gets all shat up with gun laws instead of rebuilding the welfare state.
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Dec 10, 2013 21:54
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Anyone trying to get gun control legislation passed should just get a bunch of brown people to visit the Capitol with guns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUQIYLQ2rbk&t=9s Works every time.
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Dec 10, 2013 21:59
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Ron Jeremy posted:Anyone trying to get gun control legislation passed should just get a bunch of brown people to visit the Capitol with guns What, like with the Black Panthers and the Mulford Act and Reagan?
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Dec 10, 2013 22:00
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redscare posted:I can see an argument for having a waiting period for the first firearm, but if you already own one or have a concealed-carry permit, there's no logical reason to have another one. There are enough hobbyists in the decent states to nickel and dime their gun laws to death if they so choose. They'll find many way-too-willing allies from the national culture wars. Better to suffer minor inconvenience and keep the statehouse clear for poo poo that matters.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:04
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Dusseldorf posted:I mean LA steals water, but not from the same places from where the bay area steals water. Sorta, but not really. The Central Valley project is basically a gigantic system all designed around sending water southwards, both for irrigation purposes and city use. Water that used to flow down rivers, through the delta, and out the bay is now piped up and over the grapevine (in addition to just being used for farms in the southern SJ valley). Cities in the bay area would take water from the dams on these rivers and then largely dump it right back in to the bay, but we pump vast quantities of water up and out of the central valley down in to SoCal, which obviously doesn't come back. You can see the giant pipes up the grapevine and the aqueducts all the way down I-5. That water is certainly not moving northwards. It's basically a game of water transfers southwards from district to district, so while it's not "LA takes from Oregon and Shasta" directly, effectively that's what we've been doing. Water is taken from the Trinity River (ie, Klamath river system, aka Oregon), dammed, pumped up and over the mountains down in to Whiskeytown lake, which will then flow down the Sacramento. Various reservoirs are even on the west side of the Central Valley (aka desert) which were put in solely to store and send water south. Repeat this process all through the valley in a series of southwards movements from various rivers, lakes, etc, culminating in a series of gigantic gently caress-off pipes over the grapevine and down in to Castaic lake. Some of the water that's sent southwards from the north goes to irrigate the southern portion of the Central Valley, which is more desert-ish, but not all. It's not as much water as is taken from the Colorado river, but it certainly is taken from the same place that towns and cities along the central valley and the bay would use. And in this state, water is quite literally money, so it tends to get noticed. Water usage/politics is loving crazy as a result.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:22
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The important thing is that our oiligarchs have clean water to work with.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:24
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Considering agriculture use is more than 80% of the total use of water in California and we've been pumping water into the southern end of the Central Valley (which is basically a desert) to grow fruits I don't feel so bad that those farmers are getting screwed. You had a good thing, reality caught up with you, tough poo poo.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:26
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I heard that if they actually bothered to make their irrigation efficient they'd still be doing good. True/false?
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Dec 10, 2013 22:27
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Grand Prize Winner posted:I heard that if they actually bothered to make their irrigation efficient they'd still be doing good. True/false? When your water is almost free, there's zero incentive to save it - especially if it means spending money to replace leaky pipes and install drip-misting systems and such.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:32
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The best part is when you see a "STOP THE CONGRESS CREATED DUST BOWL" sign next to a broken irrigation line that is geysering and flooding a huge area.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:33
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At least like 40% of LA's water is local versus essentially 0% in the Bay Area.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:33
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withak posted:The best part is when you see a "STOP THE CONGRESS CREATED DUST BOWL" sign next to a broken irrigation line that is geysering and flooding a huge area.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:34
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FMguru posted:FOOD GROWS WHERE WATER FLOWS OBAMA CREATED DUST BOWL in June 2013 on my way back to Fremont from Irvine, I was wondering when they'd finally start blaming THE EVIL NOBONGOMER.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:36
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:OBAMA CREATED DUST BOWL in June 2013 on my way back to Fremont from Irvine, I was wondering when they'd finally start blaming THE EVIL NOBONGOMER.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:41
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Grand Prize Winner posted:I heard that if they actually bothered to make their irrigation efficient they'd still be doing good. True/false? Partially true. One of the biggest things that we could do that no one really does is just put a cover on the drat irrigation ditches. They lose between 5-15% of the water to evaporation because they sit in the open air in (again) a desert. I'd imagine that would be a state or county level project but would easily be worth it.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:45
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Dusseldorf posted:At least like 40% of LA's water is local versus essentially 0% in the Bay Area. The San Francisco Bay is watered by both the Sacramento and the San Joaquin Rivers. The California Aqueduct takes water from these two rivers and transports it to southern california. It's ludicrous to take water directly from the Bay Area's rivers and then complain that essentially 0% of the bay area's water is sourced locally.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:46
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I've always wondered about the efficiency of evaporation from the San Joaquin. For every gallon of water evaporated in a field in, lets say, Merced how much of that gets re-precipitated in the Sierras is a manner that it can be recaptured. I assume with a significant amount of water diverted from the Sacramento into agriculture that there is a significant increase of rainfall to in the mountains. I guess the question would be if the efficiency of recapture was on order of 1%, 10% or 70%?
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Dec 10, 2013 22:49
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Leperflesh posted:The San Francisco Bay is watered by both the Sacramento and the San Joaquin Rivers. The California Aqueduct takes water from these two rivers and transports it to southern california. It's ludicrous to take water directly from the Bay Area's rivers and then complain that essentially 0% of the bay area's water is sourced locally. By far most of LAs water is local, from the Owens Valley or from the Colorado. The California Aquaduct serves the southern San Joaquin far more than the LA basin.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:51
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Dusseldorf posted:By far most of LAs water is local, from the Owens Valley or from the Colorado. The California Aquaduct serves the southern San Joaquin far more than the LA basin. We must have strawberries for less than $2 a pound! I like how we even work to get farms in the Imperial Valley to be profitable. It gets about as much rainfall as the Mojave.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:53
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The reason the central valleys soil is so productive is that much of it was wetlands. The water was there before the aqueducts it's just (mis-)managed differently.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:58
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Dusseldorf posted:By far most of LAs water is local, from the Owens Valley or from the Colorado. The California Aquaduct serves the southern San Joaquin far more than the LA basin. Neither of those are local to LA. Closer than the delta maybe, but not local.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:59
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Grand Prize Winner posted:I heard that if they actually bothered to make their irrigation efficient they'd still be doing good. True/false? Totally true. No one should be growing loving rice in a desert anymore, but with most of their crops they would be just fine.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:00
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Pook Good Mook posted:We must have strawberries for less than $2 a pound! It's absurd how the water is diverted and who pays for it but the Imperial Valley has the most productive per acre farmland in the US.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:01
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Dusseldorf posted:At least like 40% of LA's water is local versus essentially 0% in the Bay Area. Wait, what? The Delta is right here. That's where the water was supposed to go originally.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:02
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withak posted:Neither of those are local to LA. Closer than the delta maybe, but not local. Only about 40% is local. The Owens Valley and the Colorado are the majority of the non-local sources. predicto posted:Wait, what? The Delta is right here. That's where the water was supposed to go originally. Then why does the Bay Area pump all it's drinking water across the state. Also last time I checked the Bay was pretty saline. All I'm saying the there is a major cognitive dissidence in the north on the disconnect of the degree that the area is reliant on large water projects versus the south. Bip Roberts fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 23:03
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Dusseldorf posted:Only about 40% is local. The Owens Valley and the Colorado are the majority of the non-local sources. I'm kind of busy so just pretend that this post has a hilarious image about the Oxford comma.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:07
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Dusseldorf posted:Also last time I checked the Bay was pretty saline. It's a lot cleaner to collect it farther upstream before the Sacramento area dumps all their sewage into it, and easier to store it in the mountains where reservoirs are easier to build.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:10
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withak posted:It's a lot cleaner to collect it farther upstream before the Sacramento area dumps all their sewage into it, and easier to store it in the mountains where reservoirs are easier to build. So what you're saying is the Bay Area has to steal water from across the state because there aren't any acceptable local clean water sources.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:12
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As someone who lives in Arcata and commutes to Folsom to visit my family occasionally, SF/Sac does not feel at -all- like NorCal. Norcal to me is hippies and rednecks and mountains and constant, constant rain. A friend of mine once referred to the Bay Area as "CentralCal" and I have to agree.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:28
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Ron Jeremy posted:The reason the central valleys soil is so productive is that much of it was wetlands. The water was there before the aqueducts it's just (mis-)managed differently. There was a lake in the Central Valley that was the largest in the country west of the Mississippi before we started screwing with the waters that fed it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulare_Lake
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Dec 10, 2013 23:34
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Pook Good Mook posted:Considering agriculture use is more than 80% of the total use of water in California and we've been pumping water into the southern end of the Central Valley (which is basically a desert) to grow fruits I don't feel so bad that those farmers are getting screwed. You had a good thing, reality caught up with you, tough poo poo. Fun fact, the southern Central Valley used to be a giant inland lake. Tulare Lake was the largest inland body of water west of the Great Lakes; it supplied fresh fish for the Gold Rush and its remnants were used as an alternate seaplane landing in WWII. If you're interested, this article about a possible restoration is pretty neat: http://www.hcn.org/issues/41.21/the-ghost-of-tulare. e: beaten
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Dec 10, 2013 23:38
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Hate to break up water chat, but I figured you guys would want to know about the revenge of Romneyquote:Clear Channel Communications—the nation’s largest operator of radio stations, which is owned by Mitt Romney’s Bain Capital LCC—pulled the plug on the last vestiges of commercial AM progressive talk radio in Los Angeles and San Francisco when it flipped those local affiliates to its more familiar right-wing programming. RIP the only non-conservative talk radio in the two largest cities in CA.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:41
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Dusseldorf posted:So what you're saying is the Bay Area has to steal water from across the state because there aren't any acceptable local clean water sources. Jesus christ. Yes, because the rest of the state pumps all the fresh water out of the Sac, and also destroyed all the wetlands in the central valley that kept it clean, and also developed sacramento into an industrial center and dumped tons of mercury into the river, the city of San Francisco funded the Hetch Hetchy resevoir project up in the Sierras. This does not in any way mean that "basically 0%" of the Bay Area's water is locally sourced. It means we were being hosed by other communities and had less political clout than the central and southern california farmers to drain the major rivers. Even so, we do have locally-sourced freshwater. For example, Lake Merced, which was privately owned and controlled until that 1908 act that also involved claiming Hetch Hetchy. This map shows that the pipeline running from Hetch Hetchy also adds in fresh water from several more local sources, including a big one at Crystal Springs:  "The regional water system provides water to 2.4 million people in San Francisco, Santa Clara, Alameda and San Mateo counties. Eighty-five percent of the water comes from Sierra Nevada snowmelt stored in the Hetch Hetchy reservoir situated on the Tuolumne River in Yosemite National Park. Hetch Hetchy water travels 160 miles via gravity from Yosemite to the San Francisco Bay Area. The remaining 15 percent of water comes from runoff in the Alameda and Peninsula watersheds. " source Note that this is just the South Bay and peninsula. North and East bay has additional local water systems. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 23:41
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Dusseldorf posted:Only about 40% is local. The Owens Valley and the Colorado are the majority of the non-local sources. Fair enough. We have our own Hetch Hetchy and so on. Absent our massive water engineering projects, California would be able to support only about 1/10th its current population.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:43
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Dusseldorf posted:So what you're saying is the Bay Area has to steal water from across the state because there aren't any acceptable local clean water sources. No, it's just better to collect it up there instead of waiting for it to flow past our front door and letting Sacramento gently caress it up on the way.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:44
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The thing I like about LA is that there is not qualms in the historical consciousness about the artificial creation. Maybe I'm just jaded living in Berkeley.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:54
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Dusseldorf posted:The thing I like about LA is that there is not qualms in the historical consciousness about the artificial creation. Maybe I'm just jaded living in Berkeley. Hell we embrace it. One of our architectural landmarks is a 76 station in Beverly Hills. There was an awesome exhibit on building LA at the Getty a few months ago. Our newness is part of our consciousness.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:01
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A Winner is Jew posted:Hate to break up water chat, but I figured you guys would want to know about the revenge of Romney AM anyway? We still have KPFA.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:04
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