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ANAmal.net posted:I played a couple of games against TheChirugeon's Night Lords (they own, btw) over Thanksgiving weekend, and I definitely got rocked way harder when I rolled with 20 Terminators than I did running six tactical squads (disclaimer: I am bad at games). Terminators are amazing model-for-model, but the sheer volume of fire will cause problems (like, it's easily possible to build guard lists that have more lascannons than pure Deathwing does models, which is bad news bears for you, even at BS3). Even against regular bolters or whatever, every 1 you roll is a 50-point loss, and deepstriking gets absurdly dangerous if you have a decent amount of terrain. In the future, I'll probably run one squad of Deathwing with Belial attached, drop them in on turn 2, and hope to cause some trouble before they get owned, but I wouldn't do more than that. It's just too many points for not enough mans. It makes me kind of sad that you finally learned about massed effects. That second game was way closer and I still can't believe I was able to pull out the 'W' given the rolls I had. I feel like the larger issue with terminators is that they occupy this weird hybrid assault role. Their shooting isn't quite good enough for their cost and close combat isn't quite good enough in 6E. So you have this expensive, somewhat durable troops who are decent at a few things but not amazing with a somewhat short range and can't be transported in large numbers. Also deep striking them seems to be pretty terrible most of the time. I love my terminators but I'm still working out how to use them correctly and I think that a terminator army just doesn't have enough shots/wounds. That tac squad owns. Well done!
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Dec 11, 2013 14:11
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Mango Polo posted:Guess the cover art for the codex will feature a warrior. With a bitchin' explosion behind him. I've always wondered why Warriors need such huge tongues. Fair enough give them loads of sharp teeth for chomping on dudes, but I can't imagine what the comically large mouth organ is for. Perhaps in the new codex Tyranid Warriors will have Hatred: Lollipops TheChirurgeon posted:I feel like the larger issue with terminators is that they occupy this weird hybrid assault role. Their shooting isn't quite good enough for their cost and close combat isn't quite good enough in 6E. So you have this expensive, somewhat durable troops who are decent at a few things but not amazing with a somewhat short range and can't be transported in large numbers. Also deep striking them seems to be pretty terrible most of the time. I love my terminators but I'm still working out how to use them correctly and I think that a terminator army just doesn't have enough shots/wounds. Terminators really suffer from the change in armour saves from 2E to 3E. They used to be really scary with a 2D6 saving throw, absorbing tons of small arms fire with ease. Now that 1 in every 6 wounds gets through you just need to roll a ton more dice rather than using heavier weaponry. xtothez fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 14:11
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xtothez posted:I've always wondered why Warriors need such huge tongues. Fair enough give them loads of sharp teeth for chomping Perhaps in the new codex Tyranid Warriors will have Hatred: Lollipops How many licks does it take to get the the center of
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Dec 11, 2013 14:16
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xtothez posted:I've always wondered why Warriors need such huge tongues. Fair enough give them loads of sharp teeth for chomping on dudes, but I can't imagine what the comically large mouth organ is for. It works for Venom! Who usually gets punched in the face with results you might expect... Cool tyranids don't look at explosions.
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Dec 11, 2013 14:20
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If you think warriors are bad, check out the bloodletter models. GW just has a thing for long tongues. 
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Dec 11, 2013 14:21
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xtothez posted:I've always wondered why Warriors need such huge tongues. Fair enough give them loads of sharp teeth for chomping on dudes, but I can't imagine what the comically large mouth organ is for. So that they can lick the sweat off their victims for the precious minerals the Tyranids require while choking/slicing/rending it.
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Dec 11, 2013 14:21
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adamantium|wang posted:Better pic of the Haruspex: It better be able to eat people like the old Red Terror could.
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Dec 11, 2013 14:32
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adamantium|wang posted:Better pic of the Haruspex: I'm actually kind of disappointed by this model, considering Games Workshop already did the whole "mouth tendrils everywhere" thing with the Warriors of Chaos Vortex Beast and honestly I think they did it better the first time. The giant lumps make it look like it's awkwardly forcing it's fleshy insides out to consume something sea cucumber-style instead of plucking choice bits up to consume with tendrils like the Lictors, Malanthropes, and other tentacle-monsters we already have. I dunno, maybe the look will grow on me, but the Haruspex/Exocrine model in general doesn't thrill me at the moment.
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Dec 11, 2013 14:39
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Prolapsifex.
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Dec 11, 2013 14:47
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From the dude who posted the WD pics:quote:Anyway, some tidbits from the batrep. Am I going to be slammed for posting points? Maybe, I'll remove them if I get asked.
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Dec 11, 2013 14:48
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On the other hand, just about every other Tyranid MC has dropped in points. Fexes are about 100-120 points each, depending on biomorph costs. Tyrannofexes with the Rupture Cannon are 205. Big drop. Trygon Primes are 230, so a 10 point drop. Hive Tyrants with double devourers and wings are 30 points cheaper then the current equivalent. Harpies are 135 instead of 160. It only seems like the Trigon jumped up to 210 (with crushing claws and 2 power) and the Swarmlord got bumped by five points to 285. Small to solid point drops throughout the army, that should really help cram all the needed units in it. And the Exocrine is basically a weaker/shootier Tyrannofex, firing either a large blast or 6 S7 AP2 shots. e: ^^^^ You stealing mah posts!
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Dec 11, 2013 14:50
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Holy poo poo, the Tyranid have an AP2 gun. Someone at the office forgot the golden rule: Never give Tyranids a good gun. Obviously this will be FAQ'd to AP5 on release day. 
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Dec 11, 2013 14:54
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^^^^ Or the Exocrene will be BS2.Mango Polo posted:Guess the cover art for the codex will feature a warrior. With a bitchin' explosion behind him. That's the krak missile that just ID'd him.
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Dec 11, 2013 14:57
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Mango Polo posted:Guess the cover art for the codex will feature a warrior. With a bitchin' explosion behind him. What is that big planet thing in the background? Does this mean that the Warrior is in space?
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Dec 11, 2013 15:06
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Mango Polo posted:
Unless they get 3+ armor as well, that's still way overpriced. When you consider that most things firing a quad gun will flat out kill them most of the time. Being wounded on 2s and having your armor bypassed by the standard S7 AP4 skyfire shot is completely terrible for anything that flies.
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Dec 11, 2013 15:09
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Two Feet From Bread posted:What is that big planet thing in the background? Does this mean that the Warrior is in space? It looks like a moon being omnomnom'ed with huge capillary towers.
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Dec 11, 2013 15:11
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Mango Polo posted:Guess the cover art for the codex will feature a warrior. With a bitchin' explosion behind him. 
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Dec 11, 2013 15:33
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These new nids look like a lot of fun to model / paint, hopefully they are equally fun to play. Aside from a staggering backload of models that are not painted, I've been on the fence about either a Tau or Nid army for quite a while. I put that decision off by simply buying more marines, but it's almost time to make a decision, i think.
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Dec 11, 2013 15:38
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Post 9-11 User posted:
I don't see it as being much different than sports fans endlessly speculating about what players might get drafted to their team, or which coaches might get fired and how the possible future roster might perform next season. Yes it's silly, but idle speculation makes for interesting chatter. It's either that or reminiscing about a team's glory days or how the league officials are ruining the sport. Oh wait, Hams do that too when they long for second edition minis and rules and then bitch about GW destroying their beloved game. Really you can't escape this kind of talk, it just changes it's outward appearance depending on the genre, be it politics, videogames, TV shows, whatever... Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Prolapsifex. Having ventured to some of the darker corners of the internet please let me say; gently caress you and your rosebud 
Indolent Bastard fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 16:06
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Panicking or hand-wringing over hypothetical, imagined versions of a ruleset for a spaceman game is dumb.
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TheChirurgeon posted:It makes me kind of sad that you finally learned about massed effects. That second game was way closer and I still can't believe I was able to pull out the 'W' given the rolls I had. Yeah, I mean I understand the reasoning behind volume of fire and why it's the way to go given how the game works, but actually seeing the difference on the tabletop, when my dudes didn't get owned that much harder, and I had three times as many, was pretty dramatic. I'm working on a couple of Rhinos now, I think the extra mobility and ability to block traffic like a shithead (  ) will help.I'll have to post the pictures from those games. Terminator shooting isn't awful or anything, but it's mostly just bolter shots, and point-for-point they get fewer shots than tacticals (way fewer, once you get inside rapid-fire range). As much as assault cannons and two-shot cyclones own, you end up paying 200+ points for one, which is a lot of points to spend on five wounds. Assault terminators wreck poo poo, but I've never managed to get them into combat the way I want. It seems like you have to either run them in a Land Raider and try not to get stuck in terrain, or deep strike and hope you don't mishap or get shot off the table before you can charge, or just hope your opponent wants to rumble and comes your way. I think the problem with them is just that there are only so many variations in armor save when all you use is a D6. Not that I'm saying 40k needs more kinds of dice, I like that they just use the one shape, but it means you have to find other ways to make dudes hard to kill. Grey Knight Paladins get two wounds, Eldar Ghost Robots get absurd toughness, that kind of thing. Not saying Terminators necessarily need to be fixed, they aren't horribly gimped, just not good enough to run an entire army of. T5 and a 2+ might work, but I suspect that's me overcorrecting based on the fact that I'm bad at the game and need overpowered mans to win.
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Dec 11, 2013 16:10
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Indolent Bastard posted:Having ventured to some of the darker corners of the internet please let me say; gently caress you and your rosebud Goatife.cx 
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Dec 11, 2013 16:17
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 Sup first codex entry.
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Dec 11, 2013 16:23
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Mango Polo posted:On the other hand, just about every other Tyranid MC has dropped in points. Holy poo poo, a 100 point carnifex.  That may turn out to be too cheap, but gently caress, they've had to sit out for a long time. Tyrannofexes might actually be usable too.
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Dec 11, 2013 16:26
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xtothez posted:
Looks like you need a brood of 30 gaunts to get a Tervigon as a Troop choice now, going by what I can make out in that box in the bottom left corner.
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Dec 11, 2013 16:32
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xtothez posted:
Devilgants are 8 points now as opposed to 10. Fists and spike rifles are free again but I'll bet you a lot of the profiles have changed on the weapons, who knows, even stranglewebs might be good. If there's one thing they've been consistently getting right, it's fixing the weapons on infantry models. Vehicles are another story. Phyresis fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 16:33
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Phyresis posted:Devilgaunts are 8 points now as opposed to 10. Fists and spike rifles are free again but I'll bet you a lot of the profiles have changed on the weapons, who knows, even stranglethorns might be good. If there's one thing they've been consistently getting right, it's fixing the weapons on infantry models. Vehicles are another story. Good job Tyranids have no vehicles! :v I'm wondering if Toxin Sacs give poison to shooting attacks again (and if Tervigons still give the ability out). That would be pretty huge on massed gaunts.
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Dec 11, 2013 16:37
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ANAmal.net posted:Yeah, I mean I understand the reasoning behind volume of fire and why it's the way to go given how the game works, but actually seeing the difference on the tabletop, when my dudes didn't get owned that much harder, and I had three times as many, was pretty dramatic. I'm working on a couple of Rhinos now, I think the extra mobility and ability to block traffic like a shithead ( I think the solution is much simpler, i.e. either reducing their points cost or letting them assault after a deep strike. Also, I refuse to apologize for using rhinos to gum up portions of the table and block LOS. E: Wait I've got it, just make them all A11 walkers with 1 hull point
TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 16:38
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xtothez posted:I'm wondering if Toxin Sacs give poison to shooting attacks again (and if Tervigons still give the ability out). That would be pretty huge on massed gaunts. It would be an answer to many troublesome units and a good design decision. My condolences 
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Dec 11, 2013 16:41
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Eh, Adrenal/Toxin for 2 pts each on a 4 pts model that can get quasi-free benefits if you have a MC behind them. Still, if the devilgaunts have the same profile but dropped by 2 pts, that's really nice. Though now they are forced to walk, can't just pod them right in unless there's something cut under that picture.
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Dec 11, 2013 16:43
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ANAmal.net posted:Not saying Terminators necessarily need to be fixed, they aren't horribly gimped, just not good enough to run an entire army of. T5 and a 2+ might work, but I suspect that's me overcorrecting based on the fact that I'm bad at the game and need overpowered mans to win. I dunno, I sometimes play with all-Terminator Deathwing and suffer hard from their lack of durability under small arms. Rolling as few as 20 ones during the game will cripple your army. I'd probably be happy with T5 2+ or dropping the invuln to 6+ and giving them some special re-roll for regular armour saves (although not at 2+ of course). Terminators should be wading through bolter fire like tanks do.
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Dec 11, 2013 16:44
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Phyresis posted:I'll bet you a lot of the profiles have changed on the weapons Oh God, the tears if they swap the fleshborer and spinefist profiles again.
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Dec 11, 2013 17:14
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spacegoat posted:Oh God, the tears if they swap the fleshborer and spinefist profiles again. I could see that become a running joke for every Tyranid codex to come. And I'd approve.
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Dec 11, 2013 17:15
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spacegoat posted:Oh God, the tears if they swap the fleshborer and spinefist profiles again. Nid players will weep bitterly. The rest of us still won't give a poo poo about which cock gun is which.
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Dec 11, 2013 17:17
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PeterWeller posted:Nid players will weep bitterly. The rest of us still won't give a poo poo about which cock gun is which. The great thing about Nids is that no one else knows which gun is which. I swear I could get away with Rupture Cannons on Tyrants and Carnifexes if I wanted to.
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Dec 11, 2013 17:24
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No one else cares. Go ahead and call it a spike-phallus or a venom-dong. It's all gross monster dicks to us.
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Dec 11, 2013 17:26
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You seem to have something on your mind, PeterWeller.
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Dec 11, 2013 17:28
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What is this figure?
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Dec 11, 2013 17:31
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Looks like a very old terminator, maybe a sergeant?
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Dec 11, 2013 17:32
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Old Space Hulk Librarian figure?
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Dec 11, 2013 17:34
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That makes sense, it looks like a psychic hood. Man old Space Marine stuff looks so distinct. When did the look change?
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Dec 11, 2013 17:36
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