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Astro Nut posted:The really useful thing with the dual screens is that it allows you to worry less about streamlining the UI. Any of the extras that would clutter up the screen in a normal game? Can be put on the other screen, which also enables players to readily reference stuff like maps or their inventory without having to pause the game continually. I believe this to be the truth, and by and large, what it is actually used for. RStar posted:Then we all bought the system and found out it got old. Fast. And lets not forget how janky motion controls were before the Wii Motion Plus thing. I could not stand using the Wii because every game had to have a motion attachment to the game, and a lot of the time it worked edit: proofreading hubris.height fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 15:13
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NeilPerry posted:Hey, it sold well. A console's failure/succes isn't based on the opinions of 'gamers'. Most of the games could be beaten in under 5 hours. The three Trauma center games were not long games and each could be done within a day. Then you have all the railshooters which were all just a few hours each at most. This also isn't even accounting that a large portion of the Wii's software was dedicated to kids 5 and under. Like it dwarfed the PS2's offerings for that age group. You could combine the PS2's,PS3's,Xbbox and 360's offerings to that age group and the Wii would still come out ahead by a few dozen games.
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Dec 12, 2013 15:15
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NeilPerry posted:Hey, it sold well. A console's failure/succes isn't based on the opinions of 'gamers'. Oooohhhh I can almost feel the sneer you put on 'gamers.'
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Dec 12, 2013 15:28
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Nintendo is really good at making hardware with gimmicks that get old fast. The Wii U tablet, Wii motion controls and 3DS 3D. I dunno about the dual screens for the DS. Was that useful or dumb? The Gamepad is hardly utilized. Until I see a D&D game where the Dungeon Master uses the Gamepad to set traps and enemies it's underutilized technology. Heck, just give us an RTS game with the Gamepad. Motion controls were rushed and by the time it was improved in Motion Plus, the industry had already stuck to being uncreative with them. Even then, Remote + Nunchuk is one of my favourite control schemes ever. 3DS 3D is pretty gimmicky but hey, I hear it looks great in the new Zelda. Dual screens on the DS is genius. loving genius. I know people like to bark about how it's just maps or menus but the less time you spend pausing your game, the more time you spend enjoying your game. I also loving hate screen clutter when it isn't handled correctly (Metroid Prime does it right. Go look at Titanfall. That's ugly clutter) and dual screen helps alleviate a lot of screen clutter.
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Dec 12, 2013 15:29
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Dual screens on the DS is genius. loving genius. I know people like to bark about how it's just maps or menus but the less time you spend pausing your game, the more time you spend enjoying your game. I also loving hate screen clutter when it isn't handled correctly (Metroid Prime does it right. Go look at Titanfall. That's ugly clutter) and dual screen helps alleviate a lot of screen clutter. What I don't understand is why they've not increased the level of touch screen technology for the 3DS. I would have really preferred a PSvita style screen for a lower screen, but with a stylus for some games. It seems like it'd allow for a wider range of utilisations.
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Dec 12, 2013 15:36
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NeilPerry posted:What I don't understand is why they've not increased the level of touch screen technology for the 3DS. I would have really preferred a PSvita style screen for a lower screen, but with a stylus for some games. It seems like it'd allow for a wider range of utilisations. It's certainly paying off for the PS Vita
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Dec 12, 2013 15:44
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If anybody actually knew what made the Wii super successful, Nintendo would have hired that person and avoided the troubles of this Wii U business. Or it was a fluke. Pick your poison.
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Dec 12, 2013 15:47
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NeilPerry posted:What I don't understand is why they've not increased the level of touch screen technology for the 3DS. I would have really preferred a PSvita style screen for a lower screen, but with a stylus for some games. It seems like it'd allow for a wider range of utilisations. What feature of the PSVita Touch Screen do you want on it? If I'm not mistaken, Touch Screens that allow for finger interaction are different (possibly mutually exclusive?) screen types entirely from stylus interactive screens. I, by no means, am an expert. Paper Jam Dipper posted:Dual screens on the DS is genius. loving genius. I know people like to bark about how it's just maps or menus but the less time you spend pausing your game, the more time you spend enjoying your game. This cannot be emphasized enough -- it really is an innovation that seems like it doesn't do much but the end result is definitely an improvement. Also, I really enjoy 3D and am in the minority of people who use it often. I will not stand for claims that it is gimmicky it is 
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Dec 12, 2013 15:51
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Nintendo basically introduced touchscreen and motion control gaming to the masses, which are in like every iPhone game now. Yoshi Touch and Go is the prototype iPhone game. I'm sure others have experimented with it before, I'm looking at you, Tapwave Zodiac, but the DS and Wii were the first instances I can recall where that stuff actually caught on.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:00
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I would much rather have had a single larger, higher resolution screen than the DS dual screens. Same with the touchscreen, I don't think that added a whole lot either. Switching my focus to another screen to switch inventory items or whatever is similar to pausing in my eyes. Some games were definitely better for it but I don't think the system was as a whole. The PSP was pretty lovely when I used it but its display was beautiful, I would much rather have had something like that from Nintendo. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 16:03
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Huge successes are usually no more complex than right place right time. Wii, Ps2, NES, Xbox live (initially), they basically boil down to they were the right offering at the right time.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:03
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Jeffrey posted:I would much rather have had a single larger, higher resolution screen than the DS dual screens. Same with the touchscreen, I don't think that added a whole lot either. Switching my focus to another screen to switch inventory items or whatever is similar to pausing in my eyes. Some games were definitely better for it but I don't think the system was as a whole. That's fine and all, you are entitled to your opinion, but you are definitly in the minority here. The Nintendo DS is the best selling video game system Nintendo ever released and the 3DS is up over 30 million sold. Releasing a hand held without two screens at this point would be a TERRIBLE idea for Nintendo, because it would not be backwards compatible, and there'd just be one less reason to buy the system.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:09
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^^ the 2DS doesn't have two screens, check and mate  hubris.height posted:If I'm not mistaken, Touch Screens that allow for finger interaction are different (possibly mutually exclusive?) screen types entirely from stylus interactive screens. I, by no means, am an expert. Yes, it's capacitive vs resistive touch screens. The Vita (along with virtually every other consumer-targeted touchscreen device made in the last few years) uses capacitive. Resistive is (in theory) a little cheaper, less sensitive, more fragile, more accurate.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:10
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hubris.height posted:What feature of the PSVita Touch Screen do you want on it? If I'm not mistaken, Touch Screens that allow for finger interaction are different (possibly mutually exclusive?) screen types entirely from stylus interactive screens. I, by no means, am an expert. The PSVita is a capacitive touch screen much like smartphones which allows for multi touch and gesturing. It works alright on the Vita to provide extra buttons or functions but it is a very inaccurate method to offer touch controls. You're pretty much resigned to using large buttons or gestures as you can't maintain the level of accuracy you have on the DS. They also require a much larger stylus in comparison to what is used on the DS. The DS/3DS/Wii U is a resistive touch screen which only allows for 1 point interaction at a time on the screen. While it only allows 1 point it is much more accurate than capacitive and allows for a stylus with a very small tip to enable users the ability to do things like write, draw or navigate a much smaller UI which is necessary on the DS/3DS at least due to the lower resolution and size of the screen. Personally I think the touch screen is a great fit for DS/3DS however it's kind of obnoxious on the Wii U. Without that kind of touch screen you wouldn't have great games like in the past such as Brain Age, Meteos or Kirby Canvas Curse as your finger would get in the way or increased frustration due to the inaccuracy with a capacitive touch screen. Yes, capacitive touch screens work but take a moment to try and draw some art like you see on Miiverse and then offer your criticism.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:11
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Zack_Gochuck posted:That's fine and all, you are entitled to your opinion, but you are definitly in the minority here. The Nintendo DS is the best selling video game system Nintendo ever released and the 3DS is up over 30 million sold. Releasing a hand held without two screens at this point would be a TERRIBLE idea for Nintendo, because it would not be backwards compatible, and there'd just be one less reason to buy the system. A forgotten point whenever people discuss success in the game industry is that the Nintendo DS sold only a little more than one million less handhelds than the Playstation 2. 155 to 153.96. It never feels like the kind of monumental success that the PS2 was, but it was.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:17
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:A forgotten point whenever people discuss success in the game industry is that the Nintendo DS sold only a little more than one million less handhelds than the Playstation 2. 155 to 153.96. I feel like that's because you used to see the PS2 in everyone's living room, and people would talk about it and stuff. DS was the system that everyone had but no one talked about. I was dating a girl and didn't realize she had a DS until we were going out for like a month.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:21
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Edmund Honda posted:^^ the 2DS doesn't have two screens, check and mate 
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Dec 12, 2013 16:28
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PrBacterio posted:What? I'm fairly sure this is wrong, or is this some joke I'm not getting? For reference, here is a picture of a 2DS (from Wikipedia): Its actually one screen with dividers placed over it to give it the illusion of being two separate screens. Saves money.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:29
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Barudak posted:Its actually one screen with dividers placed over it to give it the illusion of being two separate screens. Saves money. Oh, I see  So is the bottom screen still a touchscreen, though?
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Dec 12, 2013 16:31
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NeilPerry posted:Hey, it sold well. A console's failure/succes isn't based on the opinions of 'gamers'. Well, the Wii U sucks because it isn't selling, but the Wii sucks even though it sold like crazy.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:31
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PrBacterio posted:Oh, I see Yes it still has the bottom touchscreen. All it really lost was some portability, battery life, and the absolutely useless 3D function.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:33
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Barudak posted:Yes it still has the bottom touchscreen. All it really lost was some portability, battery life, and the absolutely useless 3D function. Also stereo sound
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Dec 12, 2013 16:45
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Barudak posted:Yes it still has the bottom touchscreen. All it really lost was some portability, battery life, and the absolutely useless 3D function. I'm going to say it again: I still don't get the negativity around the 3D feature of the 3DS. It's incredible that they pulled it off on a small handheld and I love looking at it every time, I can't imagine turning it off permanently, it just amazes me too much. Or am I just a particularly non-seasickness prone guy?
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Dec 12, 2013 16:49
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Barudak posted:Yes it still has the bottom touchscreen. All it really lost was some portability, battery life, and the absolutely useless 3D function. The battery last at least as long as the standard 3ds.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:51
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Shibawanko posted:I'm going to say it again: I still don't get the negativity around the 3D feature of the 3DS. It's incredible that they pulled it off on a small handheld and I love looking at it every time, I can't imagine turning it off permanently, it just amazes me too much. Or am I just a particularly non-seasickness prone guy? It often has bad ghosting (OoT is a prime example) that makes it more frustrating/distracting than it's worth. AC looks good in 3D, though.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:52
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Zack_Gochuck posted:The battery last at least as long as the standard 3ds. I think the battery is actually better by two hours. I think Barudak was just trying to list features. I would seriously get a 2DS if it wasn't for the fact I really want Link Between Worlds and it's almost necessary to have 3D for it.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:56
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Shibawanko posted:I'm going to say it again: I still don't get the negativity around the 3D feature of the 3DS. It's incredible that they pulled it off on a small handheld and I love looking at it every time, I can't imagine turning it off permanently, it just amazes me too much. Or am I just a particularly non-seasickness prone guy? Like the gamepad it adds nothing to a game in exchange for lower framerates, limited viewing angles, and faster battery drain. That's ignoring that many games suffer from awful ghosting when its being used. Its just a total non-feature and it obviously is because its completely optional. Zack_Gochuck posted:The battery last at least as long as the standard 3ds. Yeah, this was in comparison to the 3DSXL model because if you buy the non XL model in the clamshell design you deserve what you get.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:57
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:I would seriously get a 2DS if it wasn't for the fact I really want Link Between Worlds and it's almost necessary to have 3D for it. I've beaten the entire game without using 3D. I have no idea what you're talking about.  The 3D mode has always been a novelty to me. I usually flick it on now and then to see how things look different if at all.
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Dec 12, 2013 17:04
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3D is not at all necesary for LBW.
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Dec 12, 2013 17:13
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Mattavist posted:3D is not at all necesary for LBW. Or any 3DS game.
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Dec 12, 2013 17:20
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The 3D in LBW is probably one of the best uses of it on the system though. It doesn't strain the eyes too much, it's kind of subtle, and every once in the while like when jumping off a ledge you get that sudden pop up 3D effect which is kind of neat.
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Dec 12, 2013 17:20
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flyboi posted:Personally I think the touch screen is a great fit for DS/3DS however it's kind of obnoxious on the Wii U. Without that kind of touch screen you wouldn't have great games like in the past such as Brain Age, Meteos or Kirby Canvas Curse as your finger would get in the way or increased frustration due to the inaccuracy with a capacitive touch screen. I disagree with your sentiments on the Wii U touch screen, specifically because of the Miiverse art I've seen. Some of it is outrageously good and justifies an add on that I rarely use. For what its worth, the gamepad is really comfortable to use, though I rarely use it unless someone is gonna watch TV. I will say I was really frustrated with the Mario 3D level that required the use of the touch controls of the pad while simultaneously playing the game -- that was unbelievably unwieldy and poorly executed. Oh, and the Wii U Gamepad Pro? What the hell Nintendo? You already had a perfectly laid out Classic Control how the hell do you mess up your new pro controller?
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Dec 12, 2013 17:21
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Disargeria posted:I've beaten the entire game without using 3D. I have no idea what you're talking about. I've heard reviews that say it just doesn't look the same at all. Like worse than playing a PS3 game on a Vita. Maybe that was just exaggeration. Hmmm.
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Dec 12, 2013 17:27
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:I've heard reviews that say it just doesn't look the same at all. Like worse than playing a PS3 game on a Vita. Maybe that was just exaggeration. Hmmm. Its almost basically LTTP. Its only a few steps difference between pixel sprites and LBW. You spend most of the game from the same above angle. I don't see how that comparison could work at all because its not like you're going from different resolutions or anything.
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Dec 12, 2013 17:42
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flyboi posted:Yes, capacitive touch screens work but take a moment to try and draw some art like you see on Miiverse and then offer your criticism. There's a shitload of art (or at least 'art') made with the iPad and other similar capacitive devices, I don't know where this belief that capacitive isn't accurate enough or right for creative usage comes from. Nintendo chose resistive because it's cheaper. That's all there is to it. hubris.height posted:I disagree with your sentiments on the Wii U touch screen, specifically because of the Miiverse art I've seen. Some of it is outrageously good and justifies an add on that I rarely use. That's your justification for the GamePad's entire existence? I'm not sure I follow.
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Dec 12, 2013 17:45
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Edmund Honda posted:There's a shitload of art (or at least 'art') made with the iPad and other similar capacitive devices, I don't know where this belief that capacitive isn't accurate enough or right for creative usage comes from. Usually art on the iPad/iPhone is large water color style paintings, which allows for more inaccuracies. The only way to get pin point accuracy on the iDevices is if the app has a "zoom" functionality. You could legitimately to pixel art on the Wii U pad. Not really easily with an iDevice without heavily zooming in to compensate for the inaccuracy. This isn't meant to be seen as a defense of the Wii U btw. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 18:01
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:I've heard reviews that say it just doesn't look the same at all. Like worse than playing a PS3 game on a Vita. Maybe that was just exaggeration. Hmmm. Interesting. I found when comparing it that the quality was almost the same aside from being in 3D. In most games when you switch to 3D there's a noticeable DROP in framerate and resolution (Pokemon for example) but LBW was designed around looking good in 3D. There's a couple spots where I think the 3D would help with some platforming, and it's being shown off everywhere (a lot of vertical areas even if Link's moving in a 2D plane. Deep pits and such), but it's not anywhere near mandatory.
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Dec 12, 2013 18:02
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Edmund Honda posted:That's your justification for the GamePad's entire existence? I'm not sure I follow. That's basically the jist of it -- I've spent a lot of time just browsing through the Miiverse posts looking at cool art. I think if it wasn't included with the console, then there might not be that aspect at all, much like the Ubisoft Draw Pad, it probably would've died. I'm sure it adds relatively little to the actual price that consumers pay for the finished product, perhaps it may have cut into hardware budget. I enjoy using the stylus but I can see why multi-touch would be better for games on the Gamepad. Edit: I had read somewhere that LBW runs better in 3D than most games because they had aimed for 60fps instead of 30fps. hubris.height fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 18:04
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Who are you kidding? We don't need pinpoint accuracy for a tablet used for games.
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Dec 12, 2013 18:19
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Boiled Water posted:Who are you kidding? We don't need pinpoint accuracy for a tablet used for games. Especially considering the Wii U gamepad is very insensitive to finger presses and swipes - it's main functionality (aiding games) is suffering because they went for cheaper resistive touch.
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Dec 12, 2013 18:21
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