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AgentCow007 posted:The funny thing is Forza 5's microtransactions make iRacing look cheap. In the end you can always just grind to get the cars though. No level of grinding will produce cars in iRacing, in fact you will actively lose money since you are paying for each month! Additionally, once you pay for content in GT or Forza, it's yours forever. Not so with iRacing! Pay $15 for a car but don't want to pay the monthly subscription? You lose all access to any features offered, including any straight up content that you paid for. iRacing seems to me like they are not very good with their money. They have a (relatively) huge player base that's all paying money out the rear end and yet they constantly deny the possibility of making it cheaper for subscribers, despite the fact that other companies are able to offer content of the same quality for much much cheaper. What exactly are you paying for with that monthly subscription? The servers that host your races? That seems a bit ridiculous to me. You're not paying for active content development, since any future content will have a price-tag anyway. Maybe it's all the phong shader development that they're still doing. It's sort of like how you have to pay for Xbox Live even though that's all peer-2-peer (actually XBL is worse).
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Dec 14, 2013 03:48
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I think I racing is worth it. The cars are good and the tracks are perfect. You don't have to buy all the content at once. What you start with is all you need for rookies. As far as the skip Barber is concerned, three of the rookie tracks are in each season. If you buy three other tracks, you are set for the next three seasons. You can keep adding tracks as you go along. Before long you have plenty of content. Then if you move up to another car, chances are you have most or all the tracks it races on already. Iracing is expensive yes, but you get a lot for what you pay for. You get a realistic sim and a great community. If you are halfway decent at driving, you'll always be around people you can race with. Many other sims, you get in a race and you have no idea if these people are the same skill level as you.
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Dec 14, 2013 03:51
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Nah, I haven't played any other PC racing games with the level of quality that iRacing has. Especially in its multiplayer. iRacing is very accessible and everything works perfectly. I always have issues with other PC racing sims, thats never the case with iRacing. The monthly fee's while probably not really required, are still absolutely worth it. Plus you can always wait for deals for subscribers. They have been running a $50 for one year deal for a long time now.
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Dec 14, 2013 03:54
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I said come in! posted:Nah, I haven't played any other PC racing games with the level of quality that iRacing has. Especially in its multiplayer. iRacing is very accessible and everything works perfectly. I always have issues with other PC racing sims, thats never the case with iRacing. The monthly fee's while probably not really required, are still absolutely worth it. The racing makes it all worth it. While yes, in rookie racing you'll face idiots crashing, most its mostly inexperience rather then malice. People really think about the fact they could end up wasting another $15, if they ruin their Safety Rating and that generally makes everybody try to race clean. You really don't see it in other sims. Its always a T1 clusterfuck. Also the cars and tracks are worth the price. They put so much work into them that you'll rarely find anything as good in any other sim. Asseto Corsar is looking and feeling great, mind you, but the I fear the online races are going to be awful. We'll see though.
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Dec 14, 2013 04:06
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I said come in! posted:Gran Turismo 6 is pretty bad too. $150 for some of the cars. Which ones, anyway? Don't tell me popular cars like say the Aventador and poo poo like that?
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Dec 14, 2013 04:18
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Combat Pretzel posted:The gently caress... It's the 20 million credit ones. If you wanted to pay money for those its absurd. I don't know what Sony was thinking with the prices. I guess they don't want to make it too tempting, but the prices for what you get in credits is still absurd. Obviously Sony wants to make money off of people buying the credit packs, but they are so expensive I dont see why anyone would want to buy them.
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Dec 14, 2013 04:22
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Combat Pretzel posted:The gently caress... They allow you to buy chunks of in-game credits using real money, and $150 is the ballpark of what the higher-end cars cost if you use this method. BUT you can earn those credits by winning races and doing events etc like in any other GT game, paying just seems to be for people with more money than time. Though there was a glitch that was found to give you near limit-less credits, so that was interesting.
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Dec 14, 2013 04:22
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I said come in! posted:It's the 20 million credit ones. If you wanted to pay money for those its absurd. I don't know what Sony was thinking with the prices. I guess they don't want to make it too tempting, but the prices for what you get in credits is still absurd. Obviously Sony wants to make money off of people buying the credit packs, but they are so expensive I dont see why anyone would want to buy them. SparkTR posted:They allow you to buy chunks of in-game credits using real money, and $150 is the ballpark of what the higher-end cars cost if you use this method. BUT you can earn those credits by winning races and doing events etc like in any other GT game, paying just seems to be for people with more money than time. Though there was a glitch that was found to give you near limit-less credits, so that was interesting.
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Dec 14, 2013 04:27
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I'm surprised iRacing hasn't adopted the League of Legends approach. Maybe do a biweekly/monthly rotation where they have a free car/track or two for limited trial So far its just really fun starting to learn the 5 tracks I got (since those ovals may as well not even be installed). I've mainly just ran Mazda test laps on Lime Rock with a stupid grin so far  Did anyone give Game Stock Car 2013 a try? For 25 bucks it looks like its got a poo poo-ton of content? Seems to have been overlooked when Assetto Corsa came out.
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Dec 14, 2013 04:43
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pvax posted:I'm surprised iRacing hasn't adopted the League of Legends approach. Maybe do a biweekly/monthly rotation where they have a free car/track or two for limited trial The problem with this is the learning curve and the way racing works. It really cant be done like League of Legends. Not possible.
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Dec 14, 2013 04:46
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pvax posted:I'm surprised iRacing hasn't adopted the League of Legends approach. Maybe do a biweekly/monthly rotation where they have a free car/track or two for limited trial I tried out the demo. It was ok, but compared to pretty much any other modern sim out there, it took way too much effort to get set up. Then once that's good, it's full of tracks I've never heard of and would never race on outside of that game and the cars are somewhat decent. If you really want to see what it's like to race in Brazil, go for it.
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Dec 14, 2013 04:52
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tehsid posted:The racing makes it all worth it. While yes, in rookie racing you'll face idiots crashing, most its mostly inexperience rather then malice. People really think about the fact they could end up wasting another $15, if they ruin their Safety Rating and that generally makes everybody try to race clean. You really don't see it in other sims. Its always a T1 clusterfuck. Assetto Corsa is a great example. A team comprised of a handful of people were able to finance development of a game that uses laser scanning for both cars and tracks and will retail for $50 dollars. The beta's physics model seems fantastic so far and impressively capable of handling for very different types of cars while not looking like it's from 2005, and there's additional content in the future promised as free updates. Not sure about standing starts though... To me, iRacing's only advantage is the number of players and the standardized rating system, which means that you'll be paired up with people of similar skill. That's a really great thing, and I really hope that CARS or AC introduce similar systems to decrease the painful aspects of their online systems, but those games aren't even out yet, and when they do come out, it'll be interesting to see whether they attract the sort of numbers required for such a system to actually mean anything. I never did like the community in iRacing though, mostly because whenever I discussed the pricing model with them they would always just shout some variation of "hobbies are expensive get over it" or "its totally worth it because they weigh every part man!" and so I got rather jaded pretty quickly. Also I never raced outside of the rookie league so people were very ready to yell at each other for incidents. Not sure if that's the case outside of the rookie league. In terms of content, iRacing does not really offer enough of a difference from other products to justify the associated price. I think I might just not give enough shits if a car is made from CAD data or scanned in or if a track is created through laser scanning or photo reference and cad data, but even if I did other games are starting to offer that now. If a game like AC offered a similar rating system and matchmaking system as iRacing (which wouldn't require a subscription, FPS and RTS games have been doing it incredibly well for years) then I would never even think about going back. I think a little competition is really needed for iRacing, and that it would really benefit subscribers if another sim came out that was able to cause the iRacing team to sweat a little. Until then I'll just stay bitter about it. EDIT: quote:The problem with this is the learning curve and the way racing works. It really cant be done like League of Legends. Not possible. ...Wait why not? Something like DOTA has just as steep a learning curve as iRacing...
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Dec 14, 2013 05:18
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I dunno, iRacing has 60 race tracks. Not sure of any other racing games with that many?Brownie posted:...Wait why not? Something like DOTA has just as steep a learning curve as iRacing... The whole point is you work your way up to the top tiers of racing. You can't just jump into a Le Mans prototype race car in your first day. That would be horrible to allow rookies to be able to do that. Like, to say that you can just hand out a free car and track every week is completely ignoring so many different complex factors with iRacing that I don't feel like going into. There are plenty of other racing games that give you flexibility and freedom to play how you want. iRacing is not that sim, take it or leave it basically. It's not going to change and it shouldn't. It doesn't need to. I said come in! fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 05:20
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Brownie posted:...Wait why not? Something like DOTA has just as steep a learning curve as iRacing... As steep a learning curve to master, not to play basically. You can't jump into a new car in iRacing and expect to even be mediocre at it. It takes time to learn the car and it takes time to learn the track. That's why the rookie series is always the same four tracks over and over again every four weeks. While you're getting used to the game, you're always in familiar territory. If one week you got the mx-5 then the next was the mustang, then the next was the Lotus 79, you'd never progress in the game. It takes a lot of practice and effort just to be able to drive a new car around a track at a pace that doesn't get you slammed into from behind. And as far as pricing goes, you're not just paying iRacing, you're also paying the company that owns whatever it is you're buying. The tracks get a cut of each sale and so do manufacturers.
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Dec 14, 2013 05:29
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I said come in! posted:I dunno, iRacing has 60 race tracks. Not sure of any other racing games with that many? But I'll never actually own all 60 tracks, as people have already said that'd be stupid and expensive. Nor would I want to, since so many are ovals or tracks in America I've never heard of (out of my own ignorance). It's great that it has that selection but for me my favourite tracks (Spa, Monaco, Monza, Suzuka) almost always pop up in every sim anyway. In fact, I really don't like the fact that if I want to fully participate in the higher leagues, I'll probably have to buy some track that I'll never race on again outside of that, or worse I'll buy a track only to find that I find it incredibly unfun to drive on! It's also hard to compare the amount of content since no other sim has seen continuous development for as long as iRacing or had so much money pumped into it. quote:The whole point is you work your way up to the top tiers of racing. You can't just jump into a Le Mans prototype race car in your first day. That would be horrible to allow rookies to be able to do that. Haha why? You just keep them separated from the rest and let them do their own thing. They may not be fast but whatever, it lets them get excited about driving something faster than a Miata and let's them try out different cars. Hell, don't count the trials towards any ratings and it won't matter if people crash. Or even just let them only practice with the car/track for free for a week or two, it'd still be a smart way to allow people to recognize which cars they'd enjoy driving and even push them toward impulse buys. Cojawfee posted:As steep a learning curve to master, not to play basically. You can't jump into a new car in iRacing and expect to even be mediocre at it. It takes time to learn the car and it takes time to learn the track. That's why the rookie series is always the same four tracks over and over again every four weeks. While you're getting used to the game, you're always in familiar territory. If one week you got the mx-5 then the next was the mustang, then the next was the Lotus 79, you'd never progress in the game. It takes a lot of practice and effort just to be able to drive a new car around a track at a pace that doesn't get you slammed into from behind. The rookie season is the same 4 tracks over and over again because those are the tracks that come with the base subscription. And your point regarding pricing is true for every other racing game as well... I'm not saying replace the rookie series with a series where each week the car is randomly chosen, I'm saying that having a track or car be free to test out for a week or two (separate from the main series) would definitely benefit both the members and the company. EDIT: iRacing may not need to change right now, but I'm hoping that it's forced to change to something that is more fun, cheaper for members and more profitable for the dev team. That seems pretty reasonable. Brownie fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 05:42
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The lead up from Rookie, to D and so on, license system works well for content. You'd be lucky if you buy a track a month, unless you're insanely good right off the bat (you wont be) and the fact your license only goes up once a month makes sure you're not upgrading right away. The progression is quite good, and well balanced I think. This doesn't apply unless you're very much I NEED THIS NOW! Even with the mx5, I've been more then happy to keep racing it, because while its not a supercar or anything, its so much fun to drive in a full pack, and offers racing that is so much closer then the high powered cars. While I do look forward to racing the higher power cars, I have my doubts that the racing will be as close as the racing in the mx5, as regularly. BUT I don't think the system is perfect. I think the per month fee (excluding discounts) is a bit steep, given that they so regularly have subscription sales, I don't think it would harm them to offer the tiers they offer while on sale, full time. I think it would ease a lot more people into the sim. The starter cars and tracks will keep you racing for a long time without injecting much or any cash into the sim. If you avoid oval racing, then you might be in for somewhat of a disadvantage early on, as the content is split almost 50/50 (though you get more road cars then you do oval cars). But while I didn't get, or like oval racing prior to iRacing (and even a few months in) I decided to give it a go, and its a nice change of pace from road racing. But that's not for everybody. iRacing does need to be looked at as a hobby rather then a game though (I really want to punch myself for saying that, but its kind of true) as its an investment of time, far more then any other sim on the market. Every race matters. It will effect your Safety Rating. This means you really need to make sure you've a fair whack of time in the car and on the track before you even think about lining up on grid to race. If you go race to early, you not only ruin your SR, but you risk ruining somebody else's as well and for most people that's no small thing. But what that does is make for some of the best racing you'll find in a sim. People are less likely to wreck on purpose, which is what I really worry about happening with Asseto and (until I find a group who host races with a like minded set of people), and you're bound to find a race for you every hour, sometimes every half an hour that is close to your skill level. Something that is so rare to find in sims without the online setup iRacing has. Each car is an investment, not only in cash, but time. So much time. You're not just going to dive into the V8 super car and be a pro. You'll spend many hours cutting laps on one track, trying to understand the car and its quirks. That $15 (for me) was a massive investment, but I got more hours of enjoyment out of learning that car, then I have with most $15 indie games. And something I really look forward to doing again with another car or track. iRacing is not pick up and play, and I love that about it because everybody is in the same boat. This is a great video by Empty Box, talking about public racing and helps expand my fears with it and what might happen with Asseto unless they are very smart about the implementation. (though it relates more to rFactor 2, which I don't really like at all). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrWXq762jbA His other racing videos are great too, you should really check out some of his stuff.
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Dec 14, 2013 06:37
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None of these arguments would be an issue if they just had a rotating batch of stuff you could only run in 'Test' mode. I understand the merit in having the bar for entry be something that makes this 'worth it' enough that the player puts some serious practice into things. But, man, it is a little depressing to look down the road and see that to join ANY Series past the starter stuff that it's going to cost 75-100 bucks to get the necessary tracks/car. That's not jumping straight into a LeMans car, that just any of the D class races. It just gets to a point that with this sort of model (where everything is a la carte), that eventually you have so much content (that becomes necessary to continue) that the barrier to entry becomes too high for a new player to want to participate, even if they are totally serious about practice/clean proper racing etc... I knew this was how it was before I subbed, so I'm not really complaining. But, it's also the reason I never went and tried it before. (edit: OK. Staying in the Mazda for a while. Is it just me or is that Caddy really unpredictable!!?!) pvax fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 06:46
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I agree that there should be a way to test every car before you buy them. That should have been a day 1 feature for the sim. And you're right, its expensive to race a whole series. And yeah, maybe to expensive. For me (and this is just me and wont apply to everybody) I would still be racing the MX5s and lower classes. So if a track comes up I don't own, I just wouldn't be attending that race and would be racing a different series that week. But I'm inclined to buy two or so tracks that feature in multiple series anyway, so I wouldn't miss out on much. But its not for everybody. I get that. But I'm not sure its the type of game that -should- be for everybody. But then that sounds elitist. I still think if you buy a series, the whole thing should be discounted more then 20%. More like 50%.
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Dec 14, 2013 07:01
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This season of skip barber is costing me $146.50 not including subscription (I got a year for 50 bucks). If I wanted to move up to Star Mazda (I already own the car) it would cost me $44.85 to buy the three tracks I didn't have yet. One of the tracks is also used in the Skip seasons (I hadn't bought it yet) and the other is being considered for the next skip season. And once you buy these, you own them forever until that track gets updated (silverstone is supposed to be updated soon so I won't buy it so really 30 dollars). So all total, I've spent 200 dollars and I can run two series. That's not much of a cost difference from WOW if you bought the game new and bought every expansion as it came out. If your sub ever runs out, you just have to pay 15 dollars and you have all your content back. It's expensive, but as you get more content, you can combine it with content you already have. Your initial full season costs a lot yes, but then each series you move into next costs a bit less. And you don't have to buy everything at once. I also agree with the idea of at least a free car and track you can try each week. It will never be implemented because there are too many spergs on the forums that will post nothing but "-1" because they think it ruins their life somehow.
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Dec 14, 2013 15:47
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I just don't see why one should pay a subscription fee on top of DLC. Or the other way around. I'm sure one's going to throw MMO expansions in my direction, but they're content wise way more expansive (at least on AAA titles) than any single track or car in iRacing, so again, I'm not sure why one should get double billed. And it doesn't help that a common complaint about NTM is that it barely holds its own against last gen's simulators (where last gen means anything before AC, RF2, PCARS and whatever else there is). Of course, I can't judge personally, because I refuse to spend money for something that restricts me from the get go (apparently there's no fun mode).
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Dec 14, 2013 20:17
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GUYS. Forget iRacing. Forget Asseto. THIS IS SIM RACING! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ_lbpMBZj0
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Dec 15, 2013 04:48
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I tried iRacing a while ago, and I found the MX5 incredibly difficult to drive. Felt like it was difficult for the sake of being difficult.
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Dec 15, 2013 10:49
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tehsid posted:GUYS. Forget iRacing. Forget Asseto. Is that... Noddy? 
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Dec 15, 2013 11:42
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Falken posted:I tried iRacing a while ago, and I found the MX5 incredibly difficult to drive. Felt like it was difficult for the sake of being difficult. That's kind of how I feel after going back to it after driving the skip for so long. iRacing definitely feels like it has less traction compared to other sims. If you get used to it, you don't really notice.
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Dec 15, 2013 15:29
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It defeats the purpose of a simulation, tho. I find it hilarious in particular, because actual race drivers are complaining that there's not enough grip in simulators, and when a game company starts doing that these drivers say, the players go all HURRRR ARCADE!
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Dec 15, 2013 16:17
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Wasn't GP Legends the sim that started the trend of artificial difficulty?
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Dec 15, 2013 18:32
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The guy that made GP Legends is the guy who started iRacing. Sim racing is plagued by a group of elite racers who want the most challenge possible and have gotten used to ice tires and refuse to listen to anyone who disagrees with it because anything less is clearly arcade. pCARS has tires that are a lot grippier and they have the Stig as one of their experts to determine how their cars are doing. If Ben Collins thinks that's realistic, I'll listen to him and not some nerd who has never driven a real car. iRacing has a lot of realism in many aspects, but their tire model is way behind the times. I was watching the going faster video by Skip Barber and he was talking about how in the old days of racing (on bias ply I assume) drivers didn't think they could turn and brake at the same time. They would instead do all of their braking on the straight, go through the corner and then accelerate out. You can see this in many old races where drivers would go sideways through corners to slow down because the tires couldn't handle trail braking and the brakes were garbage. With new tire compounds and radial tires, trailbraking is possible. Except not in iRacing. Their new tire model can not do trail braking at all. If you apply brakes at all, you can't turn. This trips me up because I'm going into a corner and if I hold the brakes too long, I go past a point where it feels like I'm going to understeer off. That is, until I let go of the brakes entirely (not even a tiny bit applied) and then my front tires have all the grip in the world. Perhaps they think they are doing well, and I'm sure all the sim masters are glad handing them for the terrible tire model. Everything else about iRacing is fun, but the tire model really needs an overhaul. I just don't think it's going to happen any time soon.
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Dec 15, 2013 18:55
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The odd thing for the MX5 for me was that at anything below 50mph the grip just dissapears and you're on an ice rink. Seriously, getting out of the pits at Laguna is almost impossible for me, I spin at the slow corner everytime (well not every, but can feel that way!).
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Dec 15, 2013 19:01
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peter gabriel posted:The odd thing for the MX5 for me was that at anything below 50mph the grip just dissapears and you're on an ice rink. I agree with how it feels coming out of the pits, but once the tires warm up after a lap or so it feels much grippier. I'm not a race car driver though, I don't actually know poo poo.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:14
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Yeah it feels great when racing, but oh god low speeds are terrible.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:15
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giogadi posted:I agree with how it feels coming out of the pits, but once the tires warm up after a lap or so it feels much grippier. I'm not a race car driver though, I don't actually know poo poo.
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Dec 15, 2013 22:36
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Combat Pretzel posted:Doesn't need a racer driver to know that even lovely street tires have more than enough grip to handle the wide-ish corners of a race track at 50mph. Yeah agreed, it feels almost as if the sim is expecting you to go fast and when you don't it just can't handle it for some reason. The MX5 in particular feels like it pivots from the center of the car at very low speeds, it's very odd.
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Dec 15, 2013 23:32
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The tires are Dave Kaemmer's fault and he's kind of nuts so its probably not going to change. In NR2003 (basically iRacing v1.0) it was the same way. He got super spiteful about Sierra and EA and released all the NR2003 dev tools so a bunch of mods made it a lot better. There was a guy who basically released a replacement track for every track in game that had better grip values and were used in the actual racing driver's fun leagues. Then he started iRacing which uses the NR2003 code base, sent a C&D to all the places hosting the dev tools and mod makers to remove the tools/mods from the internet.
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Dec 16, 2013 00:35
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Might be tire model related. SMS had to switch over to an alternate model under certain speeds because the brush model used back in the day broke down and caused similar grip issues, for whatever reason, when the tire rolled too slow.
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Dec 16, 2013 01:14
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/244210/ $30 for Assetto Corsa special. $40 is the early access price, which is itself a discount from the final price of $50.
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Dec 19, 2013 23:09
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Just bought it. Couldn't help myself at that price. STEAM WHAT ARE YOU DOING STEAM NO
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Dec 19, 2013 23:17
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Is there an Assetto Corsa update tomorrow or is that next week?
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Dec 19, 2013 23:34
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There's one tomorrow with four new cars and Monza: http://www.virtualr.net/assetto-corsa-friday-update-gallery
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Dec 19, 2013 23:53
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$30 was my breaking point. I'm very surprised (but pleased) that it went on sale. 2 hours later and I have to say that AC has the promise to be a very very special title. It's a real joy to just run some laps in this - has a real nice 'feel'. I also tested a bit with the 360 controller and am really impressed with how well it worked - felt very Forza-like in it's level of feedback/control, which is rare for a PC sim, even with the assists turned off. You can tell they've put in some effort into testing game-pad controls. In other news, I still have yet to muster the courage to run a real race in iRacing, but am starting to get that MX-5 around the track a lot more reliably VVVV No Multiplayer or even AI at this point. It's just Hot Lapping/Time Trials at the moment. pvax fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 01:25
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Does AC have multiplayer races already in, or is that a forthcoming feature? Normally I would just check, but I'm at work and our lovely internet and ancient browsers can't handle much of the internet.
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Dec 20, 2013 01:29
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