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You know, if you had turned every good two parter on Voyager into an entire season arc, you'd have had a pretty awesome show. Equinox for a whole year would have ruled.
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Dec 15, 2013 19:23
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The Actual Year of Hell.
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Dec 15, 2013 19:30
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The five minutes they spent with the animosities between Star Fleet and the Marquis crew. Out of all the missed opportunities, this is probably the biggest one. The majority of these people were former Star Fleet and probably left it due to some rather serious problems with the way it was run, yet they integrate pretty seemingly back into the command structure.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:33
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:The Actual Year of Hell. I can't help but think that it would strain credibility that the ship would ever be able to come back from being so completely hosed up, so it seems like that would have to be the last season, one way or the other.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:45
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:The Actual Year of Hell. Honestly they could have done with the Borg. Just have the Voyager constantly getting its poo poo pummeled, barely escaping. Janeway grows a massive beard like that one Riker mirror. They finally get home by stumbling onto their transwarp hub and riding the blast way on home.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:08
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e X posted:The five minutes they spent with the animosities between Star Fleet and the Marquis crew. Out of all the missed opportunities, this is probably the biggest one. The majority of these people were former Star Fleet and probably left it due to some rather serious problems with the way it was run, yet they integrate pretty seemingly back into the command structure. I had such hopes for the premise, but by the end of the pilot, when everyone was in Starfleet uniforms, I knew it was going to be just more of the same.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:16
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Writer Cath posted:
Oh, believe me, they were in desperate need of a good tailor.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:17
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What use would a simple tailor be on a ship like Voyager?
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Davros1 posted:I had such hopes for the premise, but by the end of the pilot, when everyone was in Starfleet uniforms, I knew it was going to be just more of the same. But the technology, it was totally new and different and exciting! Because... gel packs! Looked like fuckin' plasma pouches with light pipes stuck in them.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:23
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DemeaninDemon posted:They finally get home by stumbling onto their transwarp hub and riding the blast way on home. And the shockwave blasts them back to mere minutes after the Caretaker originally (care)took them!
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Dec 15, 2013 21:27
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:And the shockwave blasts them back to mere minutes after the Caretaker originally (care)took them! Then Janeway gets promoted to admiral after leading a flotilla of Mirandas deep into Dominion space. They succeed in destroying a ship yard with only three Mirandas blowing up.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:37
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:And the shockwave blasts them back to mere minutes after the Caretaker originally (care)took them! And then the whole thing is framed as an offscreen minor b-plot of TNG and Picard is all 'pip-pip these thing happen in starfleet back to exploring'.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:38
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Marshal Radisic posted:Sadly, when I think of stuff like this, I'm always reminded of one ugly fact: if Voyager's showrunners had be interested in doing anything like this, they would have used the Starfleet/Maquis conflict that was supposed to be the basis of the entire show. Exactly. It's not even very hard to insert Starfleet/Maquis conflict into existing episodes, either supplementing or replacing existing plot elements, and come up with something better than what we got. For example: it should've been the Maquis who stole Voyager and stranded the Starfleet crew in "Basics." Ditch the Kazon entirely, or keep them around as Maquis allies; either way, they were awful as the primary antagonists and a pretty weak external threat written in a spot where a much more interesting internal threat already existed, but was never used properly. That's Voyager, of course. It had a few good moments, but by and large it was seven years of squandered potential and missed opportunities. A real shame considering the strength of its premise. Data Graham posted:But the technology, it was totally new and different and exciting! Because... gel packs! Get the cheese to sickbay.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:41
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The Starfleet/Maquis being buddy buddy so quickly was the laziest writing I've ever seen.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:44
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rocket_man38 posted:The Starfleet/Maquis being buddy buddy so quickly was the laziest writing I've ever seen. As a kid the worst part of the Maquis on Voyager was that they never really explain who the hell they are, if you didn't watch DS9 or that one episode of TNG you'd have no idea what their deal is. It was only when I watched DS9 this year that I had any idea of what was up with them.
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Dec 15, 2013 22:02
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Data Graham posted:But the technology, it was totally new and different and exciting! Because... gel packs! I don't want to be on a starship traveling dozens of times the speed of light that could blow up because it got a cold.
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Dec 15, 2013 22:13
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I forgot about those dumb neural gel packs. After all the TNG episodes where the Computer gains sentience you'd think the Voyager, having brain bits woven into everything, would start writing philosophical treatises.
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Dec 15, 2013 23:09
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Mr. Jive posted:I forgot about those dumb neural gel packs. Don't worry, so did the show.
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Dec 15, 2013 23:15
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Jesus loving Christ no one told me about this loving Space-Irish episode. This isn't as bad as the Space-Africans from season 1 but man what next? Space Italians eating buckets of ravioli while singing something from Carmen? Oh Jesus this lady is even in some sort of space Aran jumper.  All this episode needs are Space-Brits or something.
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Dec 16, 2013 00:57
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Shoehead posted:Jesus loving Christ no one told me about this loving Space-Irish episode. This isn't as bad as the Space-Africans from season 1 but man what next? Space Italians eating buckets of ravioli while singing something from Carmen? Don't worry, Shades of Gray is coming up and it's considered one of the best episodes of the first two seasons. You might say it's got a little bit of everything. Timby fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 01:13
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Timby posted:Don't worry, Shades of Gray is coming up and it's considered one of the best episodes of the first two seasons. Yeah, a lot of people think that Descent or Best of Both Worlds are the great season finales, but this one really leaves you ready to see what happens next, it's a true masterpiece of Trekery.
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Dec 16, 2013 01:21
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You fuckers  3 minutes into Manhunt and Troi's mom shows up, so I'm happy.
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Dec 16, 2013 01:24
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Sash! posted:You know, if you had turned every good two parter on Voyager into an entire season arc, you'd have had a pretty awesome show. I definitely think we're at a point where it's better to have a writer write a season than to write an episode.
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Dec 16, 2013 01:44
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Mr. Jive posted:After all the TNG episodes where the Computer gains sentience you'd think the Voyager, having brain bits woven into everything, would start writing philosophical treatises. I imagine that if Voyager's computer gained sentience, it would immediately gas the crew and fly itself back to Earth.
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Dec 16, 2013 01:48
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Delsaber posted:I imagine that if Voyager's computer gained sentience, it would immediately gas the crew and fly itself back to Earth. Well, there was that hyper-competent torpedo that took over Voyager to help it continue its mission, but then sacrificed itself for the greater good. And even that giant Cardassian torpedo that B'Elanna had hacked was pretty clever.
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Dec 16, 2013 01:55
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Shoehead posted:You fuckers That was the best thing ever.
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Dec 16, 2013 02:04
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Otisburg posted:Yeah, a lot of people think that Descent or Best of Both Worlds are the great season finales, but this one really leaves you ready to see what happens next, it's a true masterpiece of Trekery. Who the gently caress enjoyed Descent?
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Dec 16, 2013 03:26
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Ron Jones?
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Dec 16, 2013 03:59
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1st AD posted:Who the gently caress enjoyed Descent? Yes, that is the biggest problem with comparing those episodes to Shades of Gray.
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Dec 16, 2013 04:11
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I didn't hate Descent. V VI do accept that it was the start of the decline of the Borg though.
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Dec 16, 2013 04:53
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hailthefish posted:Yes, that is the biggest problem with comparing those episodes to Shades of Gray. It's a clip show, at worst it was just pointless and done as a pure cost-saving measure. People spent real money and effort making Descent, and it sucked.
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Dec 16, 2013 04:58
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RaspberryCommie posted:I didn't hate Descent. V I can see that. I guess it depends on your opinion of I, Borg. The Collective was always better when they were still a force of nature, before they became a bunch of space zombies following a space zombie lord, and I, Borg was the first episode to start representing that force with individual (and very often human) faces. It was still better than Descent, but it could be argued that I, Borg was a good episode that started a bad trend. It's a bit depressing, but if you go by this standard, it makes Q Who and Best of Both Worlds the only truly great Borg episodes Star Trek ever did... and Regeneration of all things suddenly becomes the closest they ever got to recapturing that feel. Random thought: regarding Picard's decision in I, Borg, Nechayev was totally right. Delsaber fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 05:20
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Delsaber posted:I can see that. I guess it depends on your opinion of I, Borg. The Collective was always better when they were still a force of nature, before they became a bunch of space zombies following a space zombie lord, and I, Borg was the first episode to start representing that force with individual (and very often human) faces. It was still better than Descent, but it could be argued that I, Borg was a good episode that started a bad trend. The Borg should have stopped being used after I, Borg. That way they could have still been a semi-mysterious, overwhelming force, and there could have been the mystery of whether Picard's plan worked or not. Also Nechayev was wrong, sorry
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Dec 16, 2013 05:26
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Nah, after I, Hugh, the Borg needed to update and get hip for the kids. Get Run DMC in as a trio of hip hop Borg whose individuality expresses itself with sick beats and mad rhymes.
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Dec 16, 2013 05:28
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I'm more of a Beastie Boys man myself, kind of replacing Intergalactic with Assimilation in my head now.
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Dec 16, 2013 05:33
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You gotta fight For your right To assiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimilate!
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Dec 16, 2013 05:37
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Delsaber posted:I can see that. I guess it depends on your opinion of I, Borg. The Collective was always better when they were still a force of nature, before they became a bunch of space zombies following a space zombie lord, and I, Borg was the first episode to start representing that force with individual (and very often human) faces. It was still better than Descent, but it could be argued that I, Borg was a good episode that started a bad trend. As much as I liked I, Borg as an episode, I honestly don't see how Picard's plan was supposed to work. Let Hugh experience individuality and then rejoin the collective to spread individuality throughout the hivemind? If that's the case, then why didn't that happen when he became Locutus? I'm pretty sure he was an individual before then. (I'm not using all the trillions of people assimilated by the Borg before then, because before Locutus, I don't think that was part of the Borg MO)
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Dec 16, 2013 05:38
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Descent really goes out of its way to sabotage any interest a viewer might have in the premise: "Lore and the Borg have allied!" "The Borg and evil Data? That sounds pretty scary-" "Yeah, but it's not the regular Borg. It's a bunch of loser Borg with no ships or technology or direction in their lives." "Oh. But Lore's going to rebuild them into a threat? That could be interesting-" "Yeah, he's upgrading them into android bodies!" "Wow, a whole army of Lores! How's the Enterprise going to stop him?" "Oh, they don't have to. He's actually lying, he's got no idea how to build more androids." "Ah. Yeah... I think I might skip this one."
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Dec 16, 2013 05:39
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RaspberryCommie posted:Let Hugh experience individuality and then rejoin the collective to spread individuality throughout the hivemind? Their plan seemed to be that an individual Borg being pre-wired into the Collective would do an end-around around their security and...then something would happen. I don't think it weakened the Borg as an episode because the big faceless Collective had already thought of that and had a procedure to prevent their non-plan from working (although it did indicate that the Borg realized that the plan would have been effective if they hadn't cut the corrupted group of drones out).
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Dec 16, 2013 06:19
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It definitely has the feel of an episode that started with a really cool pitch, and then got progressively dumber as it got more and more.. beiged. "Lore allied with the Borg" has potential. Lore has a history of allying with malevolent forces of nature and has technology that may be potentially interesting to the Borg who might very well decide to screw him over to steal his brain. Hell, even "Lore allied with a gaggle of loser Borg" has potential and helps with some of the plothole problems that might come from Lore allied with the entire Collective. But yeah, "Lore allied with a bunch of loser Borg and he doesn't actually have any idea what to do with them it's just a complicated gambit for reasons and also there's a bunch of metaphors about drug abuse" is just dumb and boring.
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Dec 16, 2013 06:33
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The only good part of Descent was Beverly using SCIENCE to blow up that abomination of a Borg ship, also guest starring the same actor who was in a previous episode about the same technobabble.
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Dec 16, 2013 06:35
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