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Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

Sundae posted:

My company sent out a very interesting thing last week. (I'm on vacation for my anniversary and told the company to go gently caress itself until I get back, so I have no idea how this little saga ends yet.)

They have some day-shift manufacturing operator positions opening up. Now, it's normal enough to see internal postings for positions before you send it to outside, and it's also normal to see referral requests for internal listings.

The thing I'd never seen before was an internal salary-bidding process. They listed a certain hourly wage as a starting point in the e-mail and applicants were expected to bid what they'd require to do the job. In order to get off of night-shift / rotating weekend work, operators were bidding down the position. Every time the e-mail went back out again, a new (lower) bid was in the place of the previously higher salary. People were encouraged to re-bid if they were still interested.

I want to smack both HR and every stupid fucker who replied to that listing. Congratulations, you've just guaranteed that every last one of you will have salaries frozen for 'equity balancing' for the next X years, until you reach parity with that lower wage, and you've just dropped the starting wage for your own job for all future employees. Go you.

What a bunch of stupid fuckers. Have they never heard of worker solidarity?

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gninjagnome
Apr 17, 2003

I sense someone in management it getting a promotion...

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat
Guess who has a hyphen in his username and got assigned by his boss to go to a special big-name HPLC/MS workshop after only a month on the job?

This guy :toot: I think he's sending me partially because I had a few months of HPLC work a few years back but maybe this is a sign that I'm kicking rear end at the new job.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

C-Euro posted:

Guess who has a hyphen in his username and got assigned by his boss to go to a special big-name HPLC/MS workshop after only a month on the job?

This guy :toot: I think he's sending me partially because I had a few months of HPLC work a few years back but maybe this is a sign that I'm kicking rear end at the new job.
Is it sponsored by Waters? If so, he probably hates you.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat

Dik Hz posted:

Is it sponsored by Waters? If so, he probably hates you.

I don't think so, it's geared towards food chemistry and while I don't remember the name he told me (partially because he's something of a mumbler) it wasn't Waters. And two of the senior members of the lab are going as well, so maybe it's important?

C-Euro fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Oct 26, 2013

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Rumors have started flying about a reorganization at my company. I cannot thing of a worse idea than loving with corporate structure while you're still in consent decree. It's such a bad idea that it must be true. :lol:

Man, my record for picking the winners to work for is incredible. Use my career as a 'how to' guide for never having a stable job again. :D

I heart bacon
Nov 18, 2007

:burger: It's burgin' time! :burger:


Sundae posted:

Rumors have started flying about a reorganization at my company. I cannot thing of a worse idea than loving with corporate structure while you're still in consent decree. It's such a bad idea that it must be true. :lol:

Man, my record for picking the winners to work for is incredible. Use my career as a 'how to' guide for never having a stable job again. :D

I know that feeling at least a little. The last plant I was working in shut down and laid most of us off earlier this year. The one I'm working for now is in the kind of shape of still running, but bonuses and pay raises are on hold. It's still a pretty decent job, though.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

I heart bacon posted:

I know that feeling at least a little. The last plant I was working in shut down and laid most of us off earlier this year. The one I'm working for now is in the kind of shape of still running, but bonuses and pay raises are on hold. It's still a pretty decent job, though.

Ouch, sorry. :(


Today's fun: I met with manufacturing operations to help support their deviation investigation. They needed one of the technical guys to come in and help identify what could be the problem with their compression process. When I got to their meeting, I discovered that the lead investigator didn't know what root-cause investigation was, had never used a fish-bone diagram and didn't know how to assemble a fault tree. He also didn't know how the tablet compression process worked on even the most basic of levels.

There's something to be amazed by every day working here.

Hypha
Sep 13, 2008

:commissar:

Sundae posted:

Rumors have started flying about a reorganization at my company. I cannot thing of a worse idea than loving with corporate structure while you're still in consent decree. It's such a bad idea that it must be true. :lol:

Man, my record for picking the winners to work for is incredible. Use my career as a 'how to' guide for never having a stable job again. :D

If nothing else, you have a book.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Learning #610 about my new company: All assumptions about anything in manufacturing are wrong, even the ones which should be self-evident.

Like, for example, "Assuming someone didn't just write down complete bullshit in the batch record..."


It is very hard to do a root cause investigation when every single data source you can study is filled with total garbage. It's even harder when QA doesn't see a problem with that and sides with operations against you, even while you're operating under consent decree.

I mean, if you won't side with procedure and scientific justification in a CD environment, when will you? :suicide:

john ashpool
Jun 29, 2010
Post

john ashpool fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Mar 13, 2016

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

Sundae posted:

Learning #610 about my new company: All assumptions about anything in manufacturing are wrong, even the ones which should be self-evident.

Like, for example, "Assuming someone didn't just write down complete bullshit in the batch record..."


It is very hard to do a root cause investigation when every single data source you can study is filled with total garbage. It's even harder when QA doesn't see a problem with that and sides with operations against you, even while you're operating under consent decree.

I mean, if you won't side with procedure and scientific justification in a CD environment, when will you? :suicide:

Why in the gently caress is QA siding with operations? That makes no loving sense.

Islam is the Lite Rock FM
Jul 27, 2007

by exmarx
QC Manager no longer employed with the company. This manager is responsible for driving multiple laboratory managers to quitting and rains poo poo from the sky.

:snoop:

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Solkanar512 posted:

Why in the gently caress is QA siding with operations? That makes no loving sense.

I talked to him on the phone earlier today, and it was a combination of not understanding the problem and corporate siloing. Nobody bothered telling QA that the problem being investigated is a sore subject with the FDA, and our SOPs told quality to use a risk-management/assessment approach weighing the value of correcting the issue vs the impact to the business. (Why? gently caress if I know.)

They ruled that it was a biz risk and not a patient risk, and therefore it wasn't worth looking into. (This changed instantly the second I informed them of the FDA's involvement on it. Suddenly they care. I'm just shocked.) Basically, the entire thing changed the moment I explained to them that their control strategy of 'throw out the batch if the problem happens' doesn't work when you have no batches because the regulators have killed your production line.

Still, I'm running a root cause investigation completely blind because the batch records and what little data I have can't be trusted. Everyone knows the docs are crap, and yet nothing is being done about it. It is so, so aggravating.

I heart bacon
Nov 18, 2007

:burger: It's burgin' time! :burger:


Turns out the plant that I was laid off from earlier this year is starting back up. They started calling a few people back including a couple that moved over to the plant I'm working in now. (There's 5 of us that made the move after the layoff) I had no intention of going back, but didn't get a call. Feelin kinda :arghfist::emo: and maybe even a little :ssj:

In other news, it looks like the one HPLC did have issues with overfilled vials. The peaks came through very weak, also.

Also, must try this



john ashpool
Jun 29, 2010
Protip:

Stay away from the H-Class. Especially for proteins.

IM if you want details.

BrainParasite
Jan 24, 2003


Sundae posted:

I talked to him on the phone earlier today, and it was a combination of not understanding the problem and corporate siloing. Nobody bothered telling QA that the problem being investigated is a sore subject with the FDA, and our SOPs told quality to use a risk-management/assessment approach weighing the value of correcting the issue vs the impact to the business. (Why? gently caress if I know.)

They ruled that it was a biz risk and not a patient risk, and therefore it wasn't worth looking into. (This changed instantly the second I informed them of the FDA's involvement on it. Suddenly they care. I'm just shocked.) Basically, the entire thing changed the moment I explained to them that their control strategy of 'throw out the batch if the problem happens' doesn't work when you have no batches because the regulators have killed your production line.

Still, I'm running a root cause investigation completely blind because the batch records and what little data I have can't be trusted. Everyone knows the docs are crap, and yet nothing is being done about it. It is so, so aggravating.

I honestly do not understand how you guys aren't already shut down for any one of these things

johnny sack
Jan 30, 2004

One day, this team will play to their expectations...

Just not this year..

edit: so far, I am liking the ISO 17025 job.

johnny sack fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Dec 1, 2013

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

johnny sack posted:

edit: so far, I am liking the ISO 17025 job.

Kickass! Deal with any audits yet?

Bubbacub
Apr 17, 2001

Just read the entire thread, even though I don't work in biotech or pharma, my jaw dropped on a few of Sundae's posts. Anybody else here work at an FFRDC? I have a bachelor's in physics, and I've been happily employed at one for a few years doing optics/laser spectroscopy. We're not perfectly run by any means, but holy poo poo, we're pretty high functioning compared to some of the horror stories you guys have told.

I was transitioning off of a project that was undergoing QC (rare for our line of work), so I had very peripheral exposure to ISO9000 standards. It just seemed like the QC engineer was around solely to have some kind of fig leaf to convince the program sponsor that we were adhering to a standardized process, when the actual R&D process was way more ad-hoc.

johnny sack
Jan 30, 2004

One day, this team will play to their expectations...

Just not this year..

Solkanar512 posted:

Kickass! Deal with any audits yet?

We had one to get an accreditation for flow. I don't know much about what it consisted of, just that we spent much of the previous day cleaning and organizing.

It's amazing to me how much attention to detail this job requires. Every company has some minor detail about how they want this or that done, and it's easy to miss the details. The worst is when something is out of tolerance or a customer doesn't send with a crucial piece of equipment. Then we call them up, and more often than not get voicemail. Just as often we never hear back and have to spend more time than we should trying to contact them again.

Zugzwang
Jan 2, 2005

You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh.


Ramrod XTreme
So I'm an analytical chemist and it seems like certain techniques like HPLC are highly prized, and well, I don't have experience with them because my grad research had no use for such instrumentation. Aside from volunteering in a lab like some have mentioned here, what's the best way to get experience in important techniques? A community college near here has a cGMP-simulated environment in which they offer intensive training in various instrumental techniques, HPLC among them, and I'm wondering if this would count as the experience that employers want. Especially if the hypothetical position wouldn't require interpretation of the data, just obtaining the data.

It sounds kinda ridiculous in one sense to be considering this route, but then again, the fact that employers are largely unwilling to train people in this sort of stuff doesn't leave me with many options, so.

Zugzwang fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Dec 4, 2013

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Zugzwang posted:

So I'm an analytical chemist and it seems like certain techniques like HPLC are highly prized, and well, I don't have experience with them because my grad research had no use for such instrumentation. Aside from volunteering in a lab like some have mentioned here, what's the best way to get experience in important techniques? A community college near here has a cGMP-simulated environment in which they offer intensive training in various instrumental techniques, HPLC among them, and I'm wondering if this would count as the experience that employers want. Especially if the hypothetical position wouldn't require interpretation of the data, just obtaining the data.

It sounds kinda ridiculous in one sense to be considering this route, but then again, the fact that employers are largely unwilling to train people in this sort of stuff doesn't leave me with many options, so.
There's no surrogate for hands-on experience. But that CC based course sounds like a good resume booster, if the price is right. Oftentimes those programs are for people who already have jobs and want to expand their roles or responsibilities. It would be a good idea to e-mail the instructor and inquire about placement opportunities. The instructor most likely knows who's hiring her students. Heck, you might even get a scholarship and a guaranteed job if your resume is good.

Zugzwang
Jan 2, 2005

You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh.


Ramrod XTreme

Dik Hz posted:

There's no surrogate for hands-on experience. But that CC based course sounds like a good resume booster, if the price is right. Oftentimes those programs are for people who already have jobs and want to expand their roles or responsibilities. It would be a good idea to e-mail the instructor and inquire about placement opportunities. The instructor most likely knows who's hiring her students. Heck, you might even get a scholarship and a guaranteed job if your resume is good.
Thanks for the advice. The classes range from $70-$200 so it seems like a good investment.

johnny sack
Jan 30, 2004

One day, this team will play to their expectations...

Just not this year..

Whenever I job searched for chemistry-related positions, HPLC was by far the most common technique desired. I scored numerous interviews based on my having done HPLC a few times for my master's thesis. If the only way to get the experience is the CC course, and its not too expensive, go for it.

If you go the CC course route, I would change your resume to the style where you list all your accomplishment/abilities under one section, then work history under another, and education under another yet. Throw the HPLC experience under the top section and mention the course in the education. The potential employer will ask about it during the interview, but doing it this way will be more likely to get you the interview in the first place.

Edit: compared to the resume style of past employer with dates and your tasks/accomplishment, followed by the next past employer with tasks and accomplishment, etc etc.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

johnny sack posted:

Whenever I job searched for chemistry-related positions, HPLC was by far the most common technique desired. I scored numerous interviews based on my having done HPLC a few times for my master's thesis. If the only way to get the experience is the CC course, and its not too expensive, go for it.

If you go the CC course route, I would change your resume to the style where you list all your accomplishment/abilities under one section, then work history under another, and education under another yet. Throw the HPLC experience under the top section and mention the course in the education. The potential employer will ask about it during the interview, but doing it this way will be more likely to get you the interview in the first place.

Edit: compared to the resume style of past employer with dates and your tasks/accomplishment, followed by the next past employer with tasks and accomplishment, etc etc.
I got my job because I listed a specific HPLC accomplishment on my cover letter. Specifically, I used a normal phase SAX column to separate a pair of diastereomers that massed ~4 kDa. Boss was impressed and hired me.

Also, the last two chemists I hired were, in part, because of HPLC experience. So, 3 of 5 people on my team have been hired for HPLC experience.

BrownieMinusEye
Apr 22, 2008

Oven Wrangler
I recently applied for a postdoc job through a recruiter on Linkedin. The posting made no mention of what company is was for but the salary mentioned was way higher than a normal academic postdoc so I figured it was for a company, where the salary would be normal.

I got a call from the recruiter saying my resume was the best he'd seen and had forwarded it on! He then tells me its for a regular academic postdoc at a minor state school, dammit. He still mentioned the high salary range so I went to the school website and found the job listing. There was a typo of an extra zero in the minimum salary range. So the salary was listed from the maximum a postdoc would ever make up to over a third of a million a year...

Anyway, is this recruiter actually legit? I can't see how one that actually recruited postdocs would get that detail so wrong. Do any of them search for job listings and then "claim" them as their own? Would they even be in communication with the actual hiring manager?

Appachai
Jul 6, 2011

Why would you use a recruiter for a postdoc? Just find the absolute best lab in your field of interest and send the PI an email.

Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010

by Reene

Appachai posted:

Why would you use a recruiter for a postdoc? Just find the absolute best lab in your field of interest and send the PI an email.

This. Or use Science Jobs if your PI and institution have zero connections in the field. Also, why did you choose a mentor with zero connections his field?

KernelSlanders
May 27, 2013

Rogue operating systems on occasion spread lies and rumors about me.

BrownieMinusEye posted:

I recently applied for a postdoc job through a recruiter on Linkedin. The posting made no mention of what company is was for but the salary mentioned was way higher than a normal academic postdoc so I figured it was for a company, where the salary would be normal.

I got a call from the recruiter saying my resume was the best he'd seen and had forwarded it on! He then tells me its for a regular academic postdoc at a minor state school, dammit. He still mentioned the high salary range so I went to the school website and found the job listing. There was a typo of an extra zero in the minimum salary range. So the salary was listed from the maximum a postdoc would ever make up to over a third of a million a year...

Anyway, is this recruiter actually legit? I can't see how one that actually recruited postdocs would get that detail so wrong. Do any of them search for job listings and then "claim" them as their own? Would they even be in communication with the actual hiring manager?

This sounds like a really strange process of that particular state school. I cannot imagine a PI ever going though a recruiter, but most universities require that the PI list the position opening with their HR department. This particular school might just hand over all HR openings to contingency recruiters. Anyway, a postdoc isn't really a job. The whole point is to build credentials for something else. Make a list of people you would like to work with and just contact them.

BrownieMinusEye
Apr 22, 2008

Oven Wrangler
I guess it sounded like I didn't know what I was doing. For all my other postdoc apps I've just contacted the PI directly. I'm wanting to eventually go into biotech but probably need some postdoc experience with a PI with more industry connections so I'm looking for that.

While waiting on some postdoc opportunities I'm applying for various industry positions to see if I get lucky.

An industry postdoc seems perfect for my interests so when I saw the high salary listed for a postdoc I figured it was a company looking for someone. I'm not sure why the school is using a recruiter. I've never heard of it either.

gninjagnome
Apr 17, 2003

Fun fact! When your starting material supplier screws up, and dicks you around with their investigation, you can get your passport renewed and a visa to China in a week.

Thankfully, the threat of showing up at their door got them to pay attention, so I don't have to spend the holidays in China.

seacat
Dec 9, 2006

gninjagnome posted:

Fun fact! When your starting material supplier screws up, and dicks you around with their investigation, you can get your passport renewed and a visa to China in a week.

Thankfully, the threat of showing up at their door got them to pay attention, so I don't have to spend the holidays in China.

ugh, Chinese manufacturing is the worst. You guys actually request investigation? What's the raw material if it's not a secret? We usually just reject the product and tell them to gently caress off. Then again we're not full-scale pharma. Do you speak Chinese? that's the other problem we always run into.. we have to go through the distributor for most foreign material.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

gninjagnome posted:

Fun fact! When your starting material supplier screws up, and dicks you around with their investigation, you can get your passport renewed and a visa to China in a week.

Thankfully, the threat of showing up at their door got them to pay attention, so I don't have to spend the holidays in China.

Congrats (on not having to go) and condolences on having to do an investigation with a foreign supplier. No matter where they are, it's always a pain.

gninjagnome
Apr 17, 2003

seacat posted:

ugh, Chinese manufacturing is the worst. You guys actually request investigation? What's the raw material if it's not a secret? We usually just reject the product and tell them to gently caress off. Then again we're not full-scale pharma. Do you speak Chinese? that's the other problem we always run into.. we have to go through the distributor for most foreign material.

Can't say the material, but we always ask for an investigation. It's hit or miss if it's useful.

One problem is since we're research we don't typically order extra material or from multiple suppliers, and our time lines are such that we can't get more in time. The other problem, in this case is, they got crap in the material and there are some gaps in our analysis of the contaminant to get an ID, so we need some leads from the supplier to help finalize the analysis. Otherwise, quality won't let us use the material, and we miss our deliveries.

I don't speak Chinese either, so that was going to be interesting as well.

Lyon
Apr 17, 2003
I'm bored so if anyone has any questions about Laboratory Information Management Systems (LIMS) I'd love to occupy some time answering them. I work at one of the 'Tier 1' LIMS companies as a technical trainer.

Tigren
Oct 3, 2003

Lyon posted:

I'm bored so if anyone has any questions about Laboratory Information Management Systems (LIMS) I'd love to occupy some time answering them. I work at one of the 'Tier 1' LIMS companies as a technical trainer.

What is LIMS, how much does it pay, and can I have a job?

Lyon
Apr 17, 2003

Tigren posted:

What is LIMS, how much does it pay, and can I have a job?

Hah well that was fast. LIMS is laboratory management software, specifically around sample management, but most of them have extended quite a bit beyond that narrow scope. The most common use for a LIMS is to track a sample from collection, to receipt, through all of the testing and the test results, review (print CoA), and then disposal. We also have modules for specific laboratory testing such as stability, QC batches, CAPA workflows, reagent/consumable tracking, instrument maintenance/calibration schedules, analyst training, etc. A LIMS becomes the repository for all of your samples, test results, specifications, etc.

Pay depends on function and experience like anything else. What is your background? We are hiring Domain Experts and Business Analysts.

Vladimir Putin
Mar 17, 2007

by R. Guyovich

Lyon posted:

Hah well that was fast. LIMS is laboratory management software, specifically around sample management, but most of them have extended quite a bit beyond that narrow scope. The most common use for a LIMS is to track a sample from collection, to receipt, through all of the testing and the test results, review (print CoA), and then disposal. We also have modules for specific laboratory testing such as stability, QC batches, CAPA workflows, reagent/consumable tracking, instrument maintenance/calibration schedules, analyst training, etc. A LIMS becomes the repository for all of your samples, test results, specifications, etc.

Pay depends on function and experience like anything else. What is your background? We are hiring Domain Experts and Business Analysts.

What's the technical writer aspect of that like? Do you do documentation and that sort of thing?

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Lyon
Apr 17, 2003

Vladimir Putin posted:

What's the technical writer aspect of that like? Do you do documentation and that sort of thing?

Well I'm a technical trainer, not a tech writer, so most of my writing is in PowerPoint slide decks and Word docs with hands-on exercises they perform on the system. My job is usually post-sale but pre-implementation (for new customers) and I go on site with a customer for three days and walk them through the basics of the system. Each topic starts with me explaining the system via slides and then they perform the exercises on a cloud hosted instance of the software.

It is really cool because I've been to a ton of different labs and usually get to tour them and see the setups etc. Some look like sci fi movies (usually validated pharma environments) and others look like shop floors (a metals lab and an animal carcass rendering lab).

TLDR; I write training specific materials but don't really get involved with the product documentation/help files/marketing materials.

Lyon fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Dec 19, 2013

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