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Oh, and if everyone lived in Baithal until the division and they lost the way of the true faith, why was there a temple so far away where we found the sandals and flute? Bareen is bad news, bears.
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Dec 20, 2013 17:20
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What bad things did the devil do in the bible again? Certainly nothing so bad as the Old Testament El-style god.
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Dec 20, 2013 17:28
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ShotgunWillie posted:Bareen is literally the devil. gently caress off, Bareen. Tudiya and Ishamal have never offered us a quick path to great power; they have always pushed us to earn that right and responsibility. Stick with the people who believe that we can make the decision to be a good man without resorting to parlor tricks and prizes. What if you're right, but our (21st century human) bible stories are written by the victors. Without the post-hoc propaganda, it's not clear at all that 'El' would be the morally correct side. If we go based purely on bodycount, the OT god killed more than 2 million people. The devil killed about 10. http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html And, in Genesis, Adam and Eve were correct to trust the Serpent. They did gain knowledge. They didn't die that day. All of the downsides came when they were cursed by a wizard. So, I kind of agree with your take on the story, but think that we might be in a position to choose how history gets written.
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Dec 20, 2013 17:29
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Except in terms of personal repercussions for us, the Melachim (or the devil) apparently don't really care that we worship El. It is apparently an incredibly big deal for El if we worship the Melachim. The risk/reward balance isn't the same, there's no need to go with the upheaval.
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Dec 20, 2013 17:32
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Captain Mediocre posted:Except in terms of personal repercussions for us, the Melachim (or the devil) apparently don't really care that we worship El. It is apparently an incredibly big deal for El if we worship the Melachim. Captain Mediocre to the rescue!
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Dec 20, 2013 17:34
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This, but we're lying. We're seeking Ishmael's council immediately. "YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE. THE GREATEST EVER. EVERYTHING YOU EVER WANTED IS YOURS. SCREW RESPONSIBILITY, YOU CAN HAVE NAOMI, YOUR MOTHER, YOUR BROTHER ON THE ROAD WHILEYOU BECOME THE GREATEST HERO EVER" Maybe what she says is true, but she has no more proof than anyone we've encountered, suddenly she springs this chosen poo poo on us now? She's met us before, she didn't give a poo poo about us until it became plain we were blooded.
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Dec 20, 2013 17:41
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Bareen how do you believe the world was created? What role do the nomads and the Sun, Moon and Stars play in your account of things?
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Dec 20, 2013 17:48
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falcon2424 posted:What if you're right, but our (21st century human) bible stories are written by the victors. Also being on the morally correct side doesn't mean we can in fact act effectively to change things at this point. In the last game we were a powerful god-king and we still nearly caused several riots trying to change the institution of slavery. It'll probably take at least most of a (normal) human life time to change things, and that's after we gain a lot of authority over a particular territory.
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Dec 20, 2013 18:30
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Changing my vote to plan Tomn, though it seems ridiculously eloquent for a 17 year old.
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Dec 20, 2013 18:42
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Tomn posted:I don't really disagree. The post I was responding to specifically seemed to imply that we'd be leaving them all behind for no reason whatsoever - I was pointing out that we COULD take them along should we desire, and that if she was telling the truth there WOULD be a reason to leave. I did skip over the costs of doing so, true, but I do need to possess a modicum of brevity. Nah, the post you were responding to was actually very correctly pointing out that we WOULD have to abandon them. UNLESS we wanted to take the morally repugnant step of essentially kidnapping them (or in the case of Jalitha and Naomi, emotionally blackmailing them I suppose). Taking Danal and Co. with us is NOT an option unless we want to become an utterly selfish, morally repugnant human being. The fact Bareen glosses over that worries me, and it should worry other people more too.
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Dec 20, 2013 18:44
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I'm adding a futile vote for A here. If we stay, we're going to just be a pawn in somebody else's game. Going with her also has that possibility, but with the potential to learn and grow enough to eventually be able to make our own choices without being used by everyone. Also, with all the build up and foreshadowing regarding Bareen, the massive info dumps and now Barkof giving us one last chance to reconsider, I kind of get the feeling that this is supposed to be the 'canon' choice if there is such a thing. I know we have the choice to more or less do what we like, but I guess I kind of feel like this might be equivalent to us staying in Athar instead of going with Tudiya. Either way, this is probably the biggest turning point in the story since then. I just hope that if we don't end up taking this opportunity now that we don't end up in a gilded cage, unable to break free later. Rahul fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 18:55
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It really seems like Bareen just wants to use us as her own pawn, and has stated that she will do so by force if necessary. Also, if we go, we will make mom cry.
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Dec 20, 2013 19:20
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I'm kind of on the fence as to how to vote. Although Bareen has said some very interesting things, it's almost like everything has been specifically tailored to be exactly what we want to hear without her offering anything of real substance. She is a mind-reading shape-changer, after all. If she is telling the truth, though, how much you want to bet that Ishamal is actually Azzazel in disguise, or vice versa?
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Dec 20, 2013 19:36
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hiddenriverninja posted:Changing my vote to plan Tomn, though it seems ridiculously eloquent for a 17 year old. We are one of the most learned people in the little pond of Zepa with lots King Stuff and Tales to reference as well. Whether we can pull it off or not is a different matter. I expect to have time later today and hope to sift through this entire update. Wheee!
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Dec 20, 2013 19:37
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Fuckit, Changing my vote to plan Walk away from the two of them and compete in the archery contest.
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Dec 20, 2013 19:45
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Changing my vote to straight Ser Spook's plan. I counted votes while eating lunch. I had trouble with Ser Spook plan votes, since a lot of people voted for Ser Spook's plan + something that wasn't E--like Ser Spook plus B. So I counted those as both B + comment for Ser Spook. I consider it a win for Ser Spook's plan. Link to vote count doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgFUWFVbgIZBdDRSYi1kMlptLTZMZS1aQV9UMlp5OXc&usp=sharing edit: just noticed I named the doc car saleman, when it should be car saleswoman. Deadly Ham Sandwich fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 19:47
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Unless I'm blind I don't see me on the spreadsheet - I'm a firm E Plan SerSpook, A if it fails
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Dec 20, 2013 19:53
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Going for Tomn's plan. Just remember that Bareen is sending the slaves she's freed to their death without a hint of regret. I doubt she actually cares about us in any other way then how we can be used to further her own agenda. gnarl fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 19:55
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Task Manager posted:Unless I'm blind I don't see me on the spreadsheet - I'm a firm E Plan SerSpook, A if it fails Add yourself. I want to finish my sandwich.
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Dec 20, 2013 19:59
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quote:Bareen how do you believe the world was created? What role do the nomads and the Sun, Moon and Stars play in your account of things? quote:Azzazel made goats, you said? Who is Azzazel? And why is he or she not in the Old Tales? quote:Did you purposely lose to Barkof? Reviewed votes. Closing votes now. Diogines fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 19:59
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Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:Add yourself. I want to finish my sandwich. You sir, are no Cannuck. Can't seem to edit it from my phone - Diog, if you could please just keep in mind theres 1 more for Plan SerSpook, putting it at 22.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:06
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Put me on the serspook wagon. I wanna see where this goes.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:17
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Changing my vote to Not-B
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Dec 20, 2013 20:22
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Mexican Deathgasm posted:Bareen is obviously the good guy here. She dislikes slavery and believes in equality for women. If we end up trying to justify doing evil things, we're going to end up paying for it just like in the last CYOA. A person's morality is not a binary good/evil setup. It is entirely possible, for example, for someone to be against slavery while thinking that all black people are inherently dumb and should not be treated entirely equally. A serial killer may spend his time volunteering at a soup charity. A criminal mastermind may be kind and generous to his friends and family even as he dispassionately orders the death of someone who had seen too much. The fact that Bareen dislikes slavery and believes in equality for women does not mean that she is automatically good in every way, nor that she has no skeletons in her closet, nor that her motives and methods are as pure as driven snow and should be backed to the hilt based solely and entirely on that one point. Verify that poo poo, goddamnit. Personally, though, I'm pretty sure of one thing - whether for good reasons or evil, Bareen seeks to use us as a pawn, a tool, or a weapon - she may, like she claims Ishamal is doing, believe that doing so is justified in the name of her beliefs, but she wants us onside and doing what she wants to do. She intends to tell us what she wants to tell us, and try to get us to believe what she wants to believe, and so serve the causes she wants us to serve. Now, that's not necessarily a wholly bad thing nor indicative of evil in her heart - someone very desperate for investment in a clean energy program might lie a bit about likely returns to a wealthy backer, for instance - but in her mind we are very much a piece on the board that she wants in her corner. And if she is to be taken at face value, we have been treated in the same way by Shushem, Tudiya, and Ishamal. Well, I for one am tired of that bullshit. I am sick and tired of being jerked around and led by the nose with a carrot on a stick. I am sick of being a prize in someone else's game. If someone, if ANYONE wants to deal with us, I say let them treat us as another player in the game, not a piece to be fought over. If we're so valuable, let them make allies of us instead of puppets. We will not be corralled and we will not be harnessed, not unless we know precisely the nature of the yoke we are to pass under, and willingly choose to do so. We have our motives, our own beliefs, our own agendas, and from here on in I for one will be good-God-damned if we take on someone else's just because they told us to. They want our cooperation? Then loving work for it instead of demanding it or promising that the check is in the mail! If their cause is just and fears not inquiry then we'll roll with it eventually anyways, and if their cause is unjust then they can get right the gently caress out of our face. So I say let them all lay their cards on the table, because I'm for calling each and every one of their loving bluffs and seeing if any of them actually have a better hand than we do. Because gently caress cryptic bullshit right in the loving face.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:33
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Accidentally deleted this post.
Diogines fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 20:35
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Ugh fine, it's cheesy and long-winded but I'm gonna vote SerSpook since A is off the table.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:37
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Diogines posted:B and Plan SerSpook are the only options now. Aw, I was going to change to Plan Tomn. That sort of effort deserves something.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:41
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Eh...can we get option SerSpook minus the belief in El bit? Because that's a really silly thing to say considering the circumstances (also I for one have a very weak belief in El, making that vow a bit of a lie as far as I'm concerned). Also I think it's a bit meandering, but it beats a flat refusal, I reckon.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:41
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Yeah, I'll go for Plan SerSpook, but I would like to take out the 'belief in El' part as well. Also, we need to terrorist fist-bump Barkof to show that we have no hard feelings.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:46
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Flat out refusing they are going to take us anyways. You guys think Barkof is in there to add to the conversation with his stunning wit and charm? I feel like Bareen is telling the truth, but she's played her hand. Shes going to act now regardless of if we deny her or not. Plan SerSpook not only tries to not totally burn the bridge with Bareen, it is also the most likely option to stay in Zepath and keep making googly eyes at Naomi if that's what you guys want.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:48
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Voting for Plan SerSpook.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:53
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drat, I was rooting for Plan Tomn. Well, if that's off the table, then I'm going for B - Refuse her. Edit: http://lparchive.org/The-Bards-Tale/Update%2060/ I believe this is relevant to our situation. At the very least, it's an amusing parallel. He even has a dog! the_steve fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 20:55
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Ugh. SerSpock minus El.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:55
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A vote for plan SerSpook.
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Dec 20, 2013 21:04
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B. Refuse her. It won't be the last we've seen of her, I'm sure, but there's no reason to go with her now. While some of what she says is interesting, her actions in being such a public figure and leading a heresy mark her very clearly as being a player who is willing to give up anonymity prematurely. That's bad, and it's bad for anyone who works with her. If she were really waiting for Enkidel, she'd have been wiser to do it quietly. I guess I just don't trust her judgement, even if everything she's said is true.
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Dec 20, 2013 21:08
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Yeah, Serspook minus El if everything else is off the table. Preferably a summary of the main points rather than a big monologue if that's possible. I don't know if they're going to be patient enough to listen to a large speech at this point.
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Dec 20, 2013 21:08
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By the way, if we can still ask questions... Would you say Ishamal is much weaker in Blood and Might than yourself? If she gives a non-committal answer, hit her with this: You say you could not approach Athar for you were a lion, yet Tudyia could approach because he was a mouse. Ishamal was with Tudiya. Do you claim that Ishamal is much weaker than yourself?
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Dec 20, 2013 21:26
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I cannot seem to edit the spreadsheet. Although I did cast my vote for B, it doesn't show up on the vote count.
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Dec 20, 2013 21:29
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Vote Change: Voting for plan Bard's Tale. Decline ultimate power, choose yourself, go drink. Edit: I set the spreadsheet to global sharing and I edited it without logging into G+. I can't tell what's wrong. Deadly Ham Sandwich fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 21:31
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 05:17 |
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Was A, now Option SerSpook
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Dec 20, 2013 21:35
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