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I thought this was interesting. Citing the Benghazi attack, 150 marines are poised to enter South Sudan to help evacuate the U.S. embassy. http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/23/world/africa/south-sudan-violence/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 posted:"By positioning these forces forward, we are able to more quickly respond to crisis in the region, if required," read a statement from U.S. Africa Command.
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# ? Dec 24, 2013 00:43 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 12:47 |
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Thank you so much for this post. Finding clear, concise information on the issues in Central Africa is always such a chore and this clears a lot of things up for me. Much appreciated. quote:North Kivu Boogaloo 2: The UN Strikes Back I laughed at this a lot more than I should have.
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# ? Dec 24, 2013 02:53 |
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And now reports of mass graves in South Sudanquote:The UN says it has reports of three mass graves in South Sudan, amid "palpable fear" among civilians they will be killed for their ethnicity.
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# ? Dec 24, 2013 19:37 |
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A UN aid worker in South Sudan is estimating a death toll in the thousands. The Guardian published a big piece today with a bunch of eye witness accounts collected by a journalist on the ground. Some harrowing stuff quote:A week ago, Simon K, a 20-year-old student living in the capital of South Sudan, was arrested by men in military uniforms. He was asked a question that has taken on deadly importance in the world's newest country in the past seven days: incholdi – "What is your name?" in Dinka, the language of the country's president and its largest ethnic group. Also, It seems the government has retaken Bor after an offensive launched today. Reports say there is also a government offensive to retake Bentiu in Unity but no word on how that's progressing. Seems both attacks were delayed until the American evacuation was completed
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# ? Dec 24, 2013 19:58 |
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ANYTHING YOU SOW posted:Also a bit of positive news: The praise heaped on Botswana needs clarification. While it has one of the world's highest GDP growths, it's not shared by the people at all: The last line is Botswana, showing an increase in rural poverty and a slight decrease in urban poverty from 1993 to 2003. Meanwhile, GDP per capita grew by 52% during that time. Essentially, Botswana's strong private property institutions did preserve GDP growth, and accordingly deposited that growth in the hands of those who owned said private property. Growth isn't the end-all solution if GDP per capita increases by 52% while national poverty headcount drops by only 2%. (NB: I'm not intentionally trying to play a trick here with the cutoff dates, those are just the most readily available datasets I have access to.) Also, as for life expectancy, I think the years given in the article (2001-2011) were chosen a bit too suspiciously: That dip is caused by the AIDS pandemic, which is another answer to the question 'why is SSA so hosed.' Note that this doesn't completely excuse Botswana for having such a shocking drop in life expectancy, because GDP per capita growth was constantly increasing during this time. GDP itself rose sharply too - which means the increasing GDP/capita isn't a morbid artifact of people dying and leaving behind more wealth per capita for the rest of the country. What good is an enormous GDP if it can't stop the country from suffering one of the highest rates of AIDS prevalence in Africa? Also, I thought that the specific metric, life expectancy at birth, seemed to be at odds with what World Bank records indicate: Actually on this issue, it's a matter of empirical disagreement and I don't actually hold the WB to be in higher esteem; I just thought it was interesting that the life expectancy figures end up in completely different directions. All this isn't to poo poo on Botswana's achievements, the GDP numbers are definitely solid; it's just that I find growth-oriented solutions dubious in lifting a country out of poverty even when they're wildly successful.
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# ? Dec 24, 2013 21:01 |
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Yeah, sounds like a lot of half-truths on top of each other when Botswana doesn't seem that different than their neighbors despite high GDP growth (which doesn't actually account for much if it isn't redistributed).
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# ? Dec 24, 2013 21:12 |
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flatbus posted:What good is an enormous GDP if it can't stop the country from suffering one of the highest rates of AIDS prevalence in Africa? It must be doing some good, I've read praise for Botswana's anti HIV efforts of the past decade. I don't think any SSA nation had enough money, infrastructure of general levels of education to stop from being devastated by staggering levels of HIV, especially given how fast it came on. Amused to Death fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Dec 24, 2013 |
# ? Dec 24, 2013 21:16 |
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Amused to Death posted:It must be doing some good, I've read praise for Botswana's anti HIV efforts of the past decade. I don't think any SSA nation had enough money, infrastructure of general levels of education to stop from being devastated by staggering levels of HIV, especially given how fast it came on. That is only going to go so far in a country with a very high gini index, in fact one of the highest in the world.
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# ? Dec 24, 2013 21:30 |
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Ardennes posted:That is only going to go so far in a country with a very high gini index, in fact one of the highest in the world. True, but the gini won't mean as much on this particular subject if you have a concentrated, nationalized nation-wide effort against HIV. For example, the number of HIV positive babies born to HIV positive moms has fallen to near western levels in just a few years. This NPR article also says near 95% of infected people receive anti-retroviral drugs for free, which is more than the US can actually say.
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# ? Dec 24, 2013 21:41 |
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Amused to Death posted:True, but the gini won't mean as much on this particular subject if you have a concentrated, nationalized nation-wide effort against HIV. For example, the number of HIV positive babies born to HIV positive moms has fallen to near western levels in just a few years. This NPR article also says near 95% of infected people receive anti-retroviral drugs for free, which is more than the US can actually say. Massive inequality almost certainly helped the epidemic spread in the first place. Of course its neighbors also had considerable inequality as well. The damage was already done.
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# ? Dec 24, 2013 21:49 |
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Ardennes posted:Massive inequality almost certainly helped the epidemic spread in the first place. Of course its neighbors also had considerable inequality as well. The damage was already done. Oh I thought you meant inequality in regards to the current efforts. No doubt the inequality probably helped quicken the spread. I don't think any country in the region though ever had a chance to stop the original epidemic, low or high inequality, unless history had been different and the nations of the area were reasonably developed. It just hit too quick and too strong. Botswana has shown though it's possible to begin to abate the level of the epidemic.
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# ? Dec 24, 2013 21:55 |
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Amused to Death posted:Oh I thought you meant inequality in regards to the current efforts. No doubt the inequality probably helped quicken the spread. I don't think any country in the region though ever had a chance to stop the original epidemic, low or high inequality, unless history had been different and the nations of the area were reasonably developed. It just hit too quick and too strong. Botswana has shown though it's possible to begin to abate the level of the epidemic. That is the issue people assume Botswana is developed because it has a high GDP, but in reality it faces much of the same challenges as its neighbors. Of course, the issue is that Botswana has been held up as a model when in fact the long term results are very much left wanting. Their recent effort against AIDS doesn't seem to contradict this.
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# ? Dec 24, 2013 22:05 |
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Amused to Death posted:It must be doing some good, I've read praise for Botswana's anti HIV efforts of the past decade. I don't think any SSA nation had enough money, infrastructure of general levels of education to stop from being devastated by staggering levels of HIV, especially given how fast it came on. Not to challenge you, but I'd like to read more on this. I've only been looking at it from a statistical perspective, which is quite ugly (24% prevalence rate, one of the highest in the continent). Now this could entirely be that Botswana was disproportionately affected by the AIDS pandemic, it's just frustrating to see the high rate when Botswana has a GDP/capita (PPP) of ~$15k, on the level of developed Latin American countries and much higher than South Africa (~$11k). General SSA-chat: It's getting close to the Millenium Development Goals deadline 2015. Progress report here: http://www.undp.org/content/undp/en/home/librarypage/mdg/mdg-reports/africa-collection/ Summary: Good news: UN progress report posted:Attending primary school is becoming the norm, but the quality of Bad news: UN progress report posted:Poverty reduction lags behind growth edit: UN report's on all of Africa, not just sub-Saharan. flatbus fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Dec 24, 2013 |
# ? Dec 24, 2013 22:21 |
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Does Mauritania/Western-Sahara count? Don't have another thread for it.
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# ? Dec 24, 2013 22:22 |
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edit: Please do talk about Mauritania, the place is fascinating From http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2013/12/south-sudan-death-toll-thousands-20131224184529888976.html quote:The United Nations Security Council has approved plans to almost double the number of UN peacekeepers in South Sudan. The bolded bit answers kustomkarkommando's question about Bentiu. Edgar Quintero fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Dec 25, 2013 |
# ? Dec 25, 2013 00:43 |
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Lawman 0 posted:What do you make of the reports of piracy in west Africa? But the reverse is happening in West Africa. Piracy has been common in the Niger-delta for some years. At first, it was part of the armed rebellion between 2003 and 2009, but from 2009 onwards as the conflict ebbed, more and more criminal organisations took over. Also fuelling it is the discontent of the local population with the government - which gets 4/5ths of its income from the oil industry, while very little of that money "trickles down" to the local population. What they do get stuck with, is the ecological fallout of the industry. This often ruins livelihoods and well, piracy is a attractive alternative. The attacks were mainly focussed on pipelines, tankers, etc. The oil companies quickly got wise and started securing their assets. In response, piracy took to the seas, targeting mainly tankers and oil platforms. And as the oil industry in the region expands, so is the area in which the pirates operate. They're moving from Nigerian waters to the rest of the coastline. The piracy is different from East Africa, though. They rarely take hostages. They're there for the cargo (often oil) and usually release the crew. They couldn't hold the ships anyway, since as opposed to what used to be the case in Somalia, they don't have government-free ports where they can hold the ships. Anyway, the countries there are moving to counter it. You can expect more and more international navies to get involved as well.
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# ? Dec 25, 2013 01:01 |
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flatbus posted:The praise heaped on Botswana needs clarification. While it has one of the world's highest GDP growths, it's not shared by the people at all: I think 2001 and 2011 were just the dates of the censuses. I'm not really sure about the figures for life expectancy- I assumed that they got them all from the census, and that those from the press release are just more up to date than the world bank ones, but I dunno. I think your definitely right that GDP per capita on it's own isn't everything- look at Equatorial Guinea! Really what Botswana needs to do is to move onto high value manufacturing. Mining employs very few people, you want industries that employ larger numbers of people in order to share the economic activity more equitably. Of course this is pretty difficult for a country like Botswana that has a very small population and that is landlocked. They do however seem to be going in the right direction in terms of moving up the value chain with diamonds: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-24876589
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# ? Dec 25, 2013 03:27 |
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ANYTHING YOU SOW posted:I think 2001 and 2011 were just the dates of the censuses. I'm not really sure about the figures for life expectancy- I assumed that they got them all from the census, and that those from the press release are just more up to date than the world bank ones, but I dunno. Honestly, it looks like Botswana is facing a resource curse, in this case it is diamonds rather than gas or oil. It is something that is very difficult to break out of especially when diamonds alone make up 62% of exports (and other mining takes another chunk).
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# ? Dec 25, 2013 03:38 |
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Ardennes posted:Honestly, it looks like Botswana is facing a resource curse, in this case it is diamonds rather than gas or oil. It is something that is very difficult to break out of especially when diamonds alone make up 62% of exports (and other mining takes another chunk). And cattle, their other big thing, is basically unexpandable and probably past its maximum; cattle grazing is producing a minor ecological catastrophe, which is a Really Big Problem when cattle ownership represents by far the biggest kinda-egalitarian industry in the country.
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# ? Dec 25, 2013 04:31 |
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Yeah, for those that don't know. Cattle in many parts of Africa are basically your 'bank' in the villages. A lot of the culture, especially in West Africa, is based around patron-client relationships, where the poorest ask (and get) handouts from richer people; the patrons get social status and the poor get money/goods. However, the rich obviously only want to do this so much, so they will buy cattle which live decently long lives and give 'interest' (breeding). Often, every other/third calf will be given to the herder as payment for his service. So in a lot of places there are getting to be large over concentrations of cattle, leading to overgrazing. And overgrazing makes desertification worse, changes soil composition, etc. Its a minor disaster in some areas. Why not use banks? The banks are centered in large cities mostly, which are difficult and expensive for rural populations to get to. And the banks charge a lot of fees and give almost no interest back, so at best the accounts remain static. And, really, there is no monetary culture of saving in the area. People are culturally used to having expenses match their income, with any extra used to throw parties and help relatives to gain social capital. If you want to learn more about monetary culture in West Africa, there is a really good book called African Friends and Money Matters by David Maranz which goes in-depth into the differences between American/European financial culture and African financial culture. Its a bit old though.
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# ? Dec 25, 2013 06:49 |
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flatbus posted:Not to challenge you, but I'd like to read more on this. I've only been looking at it from a statistical perspective, which is quite ugly (24% prevalence rate, one of the highest in the continent). Now this could entirely be that Botswana was disproportionately affected by the AIDS pandemic, it's just frustrating to see the high rate when Botswana has a GDP/capita (PPP) of ~$15k, on the level of developed Latin American countries and much higher than South Africa (~$11k). I would say it's in fact the bolded part. Botswana was in the middle of the geographic area of the most severe region of the HIV epidemic. There's not any ryhme or reason to the outbreak numbers beyond geography. Botswana, Namibia, South Africa(this one is sketchier given apartheid was going into the 1990's) , and Zimbabwe(my knowledge on Zimbabwe isn't great but I hear until the past decade Zimbabwe was doing pretty well as far as sub-Saharan African nations) should in theory have lower numbers for their level of development when places right next door like Angola, DRC, and Mozambique have much lower rates of HIV infection despite years of civil war and huge areas with de facto no government to provide an effective response(or any response period). (I actually wonder if higher levels of development coupled with very lower populations actually helped HIV spread, namely in Botswana and Namibia. Most of both countries is arid and sparsely populated, it's possible their small populations may be more urbanized and/or localized which would spread disease quicker) The good news though(for Botswana specifically) is going by World Bank data, HIV rates have fallen by near 5 points since peaking around 1999, and as the last articles I posted showed, the rate of HIV transmission to children among HIV+ parents is down to 3-4%(from 40% previously) and near all of the infected population has access to retro-virus drugs(and potentially information on how to stop transmission). To see how effective this is though is going to take several more years of watching and waiting. Amused to Death fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Dec 25, 2013 |
# ? Dec 25, 2013 21:51 |
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Communocracy posted:edit: Please do talk about Mauritania, the place is fascinating One thing that hasn't been touched upon here is the "resource curse." Countries that have oil, diamonds, gold, etc. found in them don't have the infrastructure to take advantage of them, and there is major government and private sector corruption that skims lots of money off the top. Here's an example in Nigeria, Africa's biggest oil producer. This is kind of a silly question, but what's with the generic names of South Sudan states and districts? Unity, Hai Referendum, Area 107?
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# ? Dec 25, 2013 21:54 |
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Mauritania is pretty much a poor man's Saudi Arabia, they were supported by Algeria for a while to spite Morocco over Western Sahara, but pulled out of their third (the bottom part of western sahara) due to economic troubles and faded to near irrelevance in the area once again.Y-Hat posted:Isn't there honest-to-God chattel slavery in Mauritania? It's the country with the most slaves per capita in the world. Slavery only got abolished there relatively recently, however it isn't illegal to own slaves. Something ridiculous like a tenth of the population are slaves iirc.
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# ? Dec 25, 2013 22:09 |
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Communocracy posted:edit: Please do talk about Mauritania, the place is fascinating I'll do a write up after Christmas. Long story short: the last colony in Africa and Morocco's secret shame come to mind (as far as Western Sahara is involved)
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# ? Dec 25, 2013 23:14 |
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Aliquid posted:Anyone have any writing on how Botswana has been able to create an effective civil society in which the public has faith? Botswana is relatively ethnically homogeneous (79% Tswana), has a population of only 2 million people and produces a metric fuckton of diamonds. Regardless of policies, they're starting from one of the most advantageous positions on the continent. Equatorial Guinea is a good comparison, though -- similar population, homogeneity and even higher GDP per capita, but in that case it's from oil, not diamonds. And they are a lot worse off than Botswana. I would argue that this comes down to the difference in importance in international politics between diamonds and oil. Oil is a strategic resource, and the big powers are more than happy to gently caress with countries both openly and in secret to ensure its flow. It's only part of the puzzle, but it's worth bearing in mind that colonialism in Sub-Saharan Africa never really ended, it just got kinder and gentler. It's gone from outright rape and pillage to American-led exchanging of resources for valuable free market ideology to the Chinese actually building infrastructure in exchange for the resources they plunder. But at no point in the past 500 years have most countries in Sub-Saharan Africa not been effectively vassal states to global powers.
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# ? Dec 25, 2013 23:22 |
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Lead out in cuffs posted:And they are a lot worse off than Botswana. I hear they actually have an extremely poor level of living for most people despite all the wealth because the current regime and his uncle's before have been one long running kleptocracy. Meanwhile on paper the nation has a GDP per capita on par with South Korea.
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# ? Dec 25, 2013 23:35 |
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Lead out in cuffs posted:
There was actually a long-running joke in my city by locals about the halted construction or shoddy workmanship of Chinese infrastructure projects.
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# ? Dec 26, 2013 09:14 |
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Aliquid posted:There was actually a long-running joke in my city by locals about the halted construction or shoddy workmanship of Chinese infrastructure projects. There's a travelogue written by a Zulu guy from my home town who did the Cape to Cairo alone using public transit. I forget which country it was -- somewhere northeast (Ethiopia maybe) -- but he walks into a nice-looking hotel, tries to check in, and is told "I'm very sorry sir, this establishment is for Chinese people only." I still have the impression that they're going about it more gently than previous waves of colonialism, but some things never change.
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# ? Dec 26, 2013 09:27 |
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Aliquid posted:There was actually a long-running joke in my city by locals about the halted construction or shoddy workmanship of Chinese infrastructure projects. The locals here complain because Chinese companies (including construction firms) and their employees won't hire local workers, even for tasks like housekeeping and cooking.
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# ? Dec 26, 2013 09:31 |
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One huge problem is that many Chinese treat African projects as a Chinese jobs program and import all the labor, instead of hiring Africans. So licks have no connection to the huge project in their neighborhood, other than the fact that government officials get rich.
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# ? Dec 26, 2013 09:32 |
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surrender posted:The locals here complain because Chinese companies (including construction firms) and their employees won't hire local workers, even for tasks like housekeeping and cooking. Yep, they complain about the Chinese here too. I'll hear people yell out stuff like "ching chong chang China!" at anyone vaguely Asian on the street. Quite racist, especially since its mostly Japanese aid workers in our area right now. They will still go to the Chinese embassy to make special product orders, though. I'm helping my friend set up a household biogas-electrical generator company in my area. He is going to order the expensive parts directly from the Chinese embassy since they are cheap.
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# ? Dec 26, 2013 09:50 |
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Al-Jazeera had a good report from inside Bor. There's a pause in the fighting, so people went back through town to salvage what they could before hurrying back to the UN camps. You can tell the fighting has been pretty drat heavy already. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlQLGqobrA4
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# ? Dec 26, 2013 10:31 |
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Hilde Johnson, head of the United Nations Mission in South Sudan, held a press conference a couple of minutes ago and made some clarifications about the reports of mass graves in Bentiu. Apparently the bodies of 13 or 15 SPLA soldiers were discovered in a single grave following a skirmish, somehow this was mis-communicated to Geneva leading to the reports of 75 dead. She was very cagey about the report of the massacre at the police station mentioned earlier in the thread, she said it is under investigation but did confirm that the police station in question was in Gudele (a shanty-town suburb of Juba that has sprung up to accommodate returning refugees). Fighting has spread to the Upper Nile, a major oil producing region, loads of conflicting reports that the rebels have captured the state capital of Malakal with others saying the government is still in control. The Upper Nile has a big Chinese presence in the oil fields and it seems they've evacuated their nationals as well. On the CAR front very bad news keeps coming. A skirmish between Chadian peacekeepers (the largest contingent of the AU peacekeeping mission) and an angry mob ended with the peacekeepers opening fire on the crowd killing a protestor (there are also reports they exchanged fire with Burundian troops in the area). This sparked a wave of attacks against the Chadian contingent that peaked on Wednesday and has,so far, left six peacekeepers dead. The Chadian troops are being pulled out of the capital and redeployed north while The French are deploying tanks to secure the capital. There are some worrying echoes of Somalia here...
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# ? Dec 26, 2013 18:21 |
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Botswana is relatively ethnically homogeneous (79% Tswana), has a population of only 2 million people and produces a metric fuckton of diamonds. Regardless of policies, they're starting from one of the most advantageous positions on the continent. The situation in Equitorial Guinea has a lot to do with the fact that the country's first post-independence leader, Francisco Nguema, was a raving lunatic who pillaged the country of everything he could get his hands on. During the 70s Equitorial Guinea didn't really have a president so much as a looter-in-chief. In one famous episode on Christmas Day 1975, he had a bunch of his opponents (real and imaginary) rounded up and shot in a stadium by troops wearing Santa costumes while 'Those Where the Days' played over the loudspeakers. In other countries, it took decades for the initial post-independence optimism to crumble under the weight of corruption and mismanagement; Equitorial Guinea started off at basically rock bottom.
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# ? Dec 26, 2013 19:12 |
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Jonad posted:The situation in Equitorial Guinea has a lot to do with the fact that the country's first post-independence leader, Francisco Nguema, was a raving lunatic who pillaged the country of everything he could get his hands on. During the 70s Equitorial Guinea didn't really have a president so much as a looter-in-chief. In one famous episode on Christmas Day 1975, he had a bunch of his opponents (real and imaginary) rounded up and shot in a stadium by troops wearing Santa costumes while 'Those Where the Days' played over the loudspeakers. In other countries, it took decades for the initial post-independence optimism to crumble under the weight of corruption and mismanagement; Equitorial Guinea started off at basically rock bottom. Apparently (according to wikipedia) he was at first elected in a fair election too? (not that it ever prevented horrible people from being elected but still)
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# ? Dec 26, 2013 19:41 |
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Amused to Death posted:I would say it's in fact the bolded part. Botswana was in the middle of the geographic area of the most severe region of the HIV epidemic. There's not any ryhme or reason to the outbreak numbers beyond geography. Botswana, Namibia, South Africa(this one is sketchier given apartheid was going into the 1990's) , and Zimbabwe(my knowledge on Zimbabwe isn't great but I hear until the past decade Zimbabwe was doing pretty well as far as sub-Saharan African nations) should in theory have lower numbers for their level of development when places right next door like Angola, DRC, and Mozambique have much lower rates of HIV infection despite years of civil war and huge areas with de facto no government to provide an effective response(or any response period). Botswana's reliance on mining as the main component of their economy definitely plays a role in the high HIV prevalence among the population (like in South Africa). Mining in Southern Africa relies on a highly mobile migrant workforce, men leave their families and travel to distant mining camps in the bush for month-long work shifts to financially provide for their families who remain at home. A shadow industry of prostitution developed around these isolated mining communities facilitating the spread of HIV, which would then be brought home when the miners returned to their families between shifts. Debswana and Anglo-American both instituted sweeping ARV programs when they realized the extent of HIV infection among their workforce (or when absenteeism began biting at their bottom line) and there have been some moves (in South Africa at least) to construct family housing to try to change the culture around mining camps. This isn't the whole reason of course, but it's certainly a factor in why Southern Africa was so badly hit by the AIDS epidemic. Some of you might be aware that after years of back and forth the Ugandan parliament finally passed it's internationally condemned homophobic Anti-Homosexuality Bill. It seems that it's passage was due to a complete comedy of errors, the government forgot it was being voted on: The Observer posted:Prime Minister Amama Mbabazi stormed the House moments before the bill was passed, protesting without much effect. The EU and State Department have naturally both condemned the bill and are waiting on Museveni to sink it, which hopefully will happen soon enough.
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# ? Dec 26, 2013 23:35 |
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kustomkarkommando posted:Botswana's reliance on mining as the main component of their economy definitely plays a role in the high HIV prevalence among the population (like in South Africa). Mining in Southern Africa relies on a highly mobile migrant workforce, men leave their families and travel to distant mining camps in the bush for month-long work shifts to financially provide for their families who remain at home. A shadow industry of prostitution developed around these isolated mining communities facilitating the spread of HIV, which would then be brought home when the miners returned to their families between shifts. Debswana and Anglo-American both instituted sweeping ARV programs when they realized the extent of HIV infection among their workforce (or when absenteeism began biting at their bottom line) and there have been some moves (in South Africa at least) to construct family housing to try to change the culture around mining camps. This isn't the whole reason of course, but it's certainly a factor in why Southern Africa was so badly hit by the AIDS epidemic. The connection to mining is very enlightening. I did know about the 'highway of AIDS,' but thought that only applied to truckers and transportation workers. It hadn't occurred to me that migrant workers would be a part of it too.
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# ? Dec 26, 2013 23:47 |
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Huge protests in Niger today. quote:Tens of thousands of people have staged an anti-government rally in Niger's capital Niamey, protesting against corruption, media censorship and what they said was the failure of the country's president to improve living standards. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2013/12/niger-protest-2013122818045873463.html
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# ? Dec 28, 2013 21:01 |
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The X-man cometh posted:One huge problem is that many Chinese treat African projects as a Chinese jobs program and import all the labor, instead of hiring Africans. So licks have no connection to the huge project in their neighborhood, other than the fact that government officials get rich. Isn't there a similar issue in Indonesia?
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# ? Dec 28, 2013 22:10 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 12:47 |
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Orange Devil posted:Isn't there a similar issue in Indonesia?
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# ? Dec 28, 2013 22:13 |