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Top Gym Pumper posted:btw play Pirate Doom it's awesome. The minigun is so much loving fun to use, and the Lechuck fight and battleship minigame is amazing. ^ Yeah, that. When people rag on modern FPSes for linear design, I want to force them to play the lovely keyhunt levels of DooM 2 and everything that starts with that one city level.
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Dec 26, 2013 00:26
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Just started playing Duke It Out in DC. The difference in quality between this and Duke: Nuclear Winter is just beautiful. The level design is neat and just as good as the original game, the enemies are fun to fight and there's no loving annoying christmas MIDI music that I can't change without breaking the game audio entirely. Between Duke It Out and Nuclear Winter, you can totally see the dramatic difference in effort and skill put in by the two different developers. It's just more Duke Nukem but with bigger maps and it's better off because of that.
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Dec 26, 2013 02:39
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Caribbean and D.C. are so good they occasionally outshine the original game. If you're a fan of those, I highly recommend Wonton Destruction for Shadow Warrior.
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Dec 26, 2013 03:35
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The Colonel posted:I... I think that might have actually been physically painful. Wow. The ten minutes of Duke Caribbean that I played were much, much, much more fun than this entire expansion was. They completely lost me from the very first level, where they literally copy-and-pasted E1M1 and added some snow, snowmen and elves. This was released commercially. Even if it wasn't sanctioned or released "officially" by 3D Realms it was an actual product in stores, and it has the production values of a bottom-of-the-barrel free TC from Dukeworld.
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Dec 26, 2013 03:41
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Luigi Thirty posted:The second half of Doom 2 is terrible Jesus. The levels are labyrinths. The city levels look horrible. Sandy or whoever did them just could not do outdoor environments like that. Whoever did that level The Chasm should be shot. Yes to all of that but The Chasm is actually pretty fun for deathmatch.
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Dec 26, 2013 03:49
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Some additional inducement for sock's new map:
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Dec 26, 2013 04:09
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JackMackerel posted:^ Yeah, that. When people rag on modern FPSes for linear design, I want to force them to play the lovely keyhunt levels of DooM 2 and everything that starts with that one city level. I even tried for the ~authentic experience~ by blasting loud music in the background and all I did was end up looking for keys in empty levels with James Hetfield screaming at me. Not really inspiring. I just restarted ZDoom but with Scythe instead. 
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Dec 26, 2013 08:09
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On a whim I decided to try gzdoom with dhtp (the high resolution texture pack), and I was shocked to find that it actually works now. It looks really nice when combined with Brutal Doom v19. Now if only I could find high resolution sprites for things like the barrels and items that you pick up (like the boxes of ammo), this would be perfect. edit: I like playing Brutal Doom with four AI bots in my squad (you can spawn them by typing "summon marine" for each one in the console). It's kinda cool to pretend to be a sergeant and watch your privates go around committing war crimes. Jakcson fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 08:32
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Here's a little late Christmas present for all of you; a compilation of publicly available Unreal 1 betas and pre-release material out there. http://www.mediafire.com/download/kwclvzv89wab678/unreal1betastuff.rar This package has all sorts of cool stuff, like: *A design document from 1996. This one shows that Unreal 1 was going to be a pretty different beast at one point. Hubs, possibilty of no living Nalis, the ability to transform into certain animals, and unused weapons are some of the cool stuff you can find in this design doc. *Four betas, including one showing off monsters that was made in September 1995 and a huge one made in 1998 showing lots of levels that didn't make it to the final game. *Tools used by the developers themselves, complete with model textures that didn't appear in the final game! Marvel at the awful model compiler! *Early background story! *A worklog made by Tim Sweeney that goes from May 1996 to 1998 that shows all of the changes Sweeney made to the engine! Has interesting info for both casual and technically-minded readers. *Official pre-release screenshots from 1995 and 1997!
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Dec 26, 2013 10:03
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The only Doom 2 map I have trouble with is map28, because it's not very hard but I always forget what walls need to be shot/used to proceed. I can't really remember any other ones that feel particularly key-hunt, the city levels are pretty straightforward! If you're ever at a loss of where to go, enter the nearest building and kill everything.
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Dec 26, 2013 16:22
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Cat Mattress posted:You forgot to put in Weapon.SlotNumber 3, since I think the normal shotgun's slot number is defined from MAPINFO rather than from DECORATE, so it won't be inherited. Might be different because I was working with Heretic, but in that I needed to define a new player class in DECORATE that included Player.WeaponSlot, and then in keyconf.txt include addplayerclass for that class, in order for the weapon to correctly work when I picked it up. May very well be different in that though what with the Powered weapons and funny business in Heretic. Edit: Yes that link does in fact cover that and I should have read it first 
Gwyrgyn Blood fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 17:09
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The Russian Half-Life community has popped out a new HL1/Quake 1/Quake 2 map editor, dubbed Jackhammer. No prizes for guessing what it's themed on.
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Dec 26, 2013 17:11
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The Kins posted:The Russian Half-Life community has popped out a new HL1/Quake 1/Quake 2 map editor, dubbed Jackhammer. No prizes for guessing what it's themed on. I've never liked the worldcraft/hammer default layout; I don't know why but I find qeradiant to the easiest to use.
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Dec 26, 2013 17:17
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SPACE HOMOS posted:I've never liked the worldcraft/hammer default layout; I don't know why but I find qeradiant to the easiest to use. Hammer and Radient are both absolutely terrible and ancient editors. UnrealEd is so loving sexy by comparison, as are Crytek, Id Tech 5, Hero Engine editors, etc. Seriously Valve where is Source 2.0? For the life of me I don't know how they make such pretty games in such a rusty engine. Doom Builder rules though, 2D ftw 
Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 18:16
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Luigi Thirty posted:The second half of Doom 2 is terrible Jesus. The levels are labyrinths. The city levels look horrible. Sandy or whoever did them just could not do outdoor environments like that. Whoever did that level The Chasm should be shot. Agreed. Also Quake  A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Looking at his channel, that DooMero guy is loving insanely talented. He's also done working Donkey Kong Country and Mortal Kombat clones in the Doom engine. Yeah this is loving bonkers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3XvzG7dqLg
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Dec 26, 2013 19:25
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Jakcson posted:It looks really nice when combined with Brutal Doom v19. Now if only I could find high resolution sprites for things like the barrels and items that you pick up (like the boxes of ammo), this would be perfect. Not exactly high-res, but it's a pretty cool upgrade: Team Hellspawn's Voxel Project turns the sprites of most items into 3D voxel models. From a distance everything appears to still be a sprite, but they stay in place and have dimension when you look at them up close.
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Dec 26, 2013 19:49
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Zaphod42 posted:Seriously Valve where is Source 2.0? For the life of me I don't know how they make such pretty games in such a rusty engine. Nobody at Valve is interested in making a new FPS engine so Source will probably just be tinkered with forever. Unless they get really desperate to do a cutting-edge FPS game or whatever (lol nope), at which point they'll probably just say "gently caress it" and license an Unreal engine.
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Dec 26, 2013 19:56
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Nobody at Valve is interested in making a new FPS engine so Source will probably just be tinkered with forever. 
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Dec 26, 2013 20:01
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Zaphod42 posted:Hammer and Radient are both absolutely terrible and ancient editors. The custom Portal 2 editor shows that Valve knows how to make a user friendly editor. However, they're still using Hammer, which is a godawful relic from 1997. Plus, they keep breaking the public version of Hammer with every update they release. Hammer should be put out of it's misery, like Radient was when iD made iD Tech 5.
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Dec 26, 2013 20:15
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The Kins posted:Source 2 is in the works. L4D3 is probably going to be its debut game. The lead designers hail from Immersive Sim territory (Thief and Far Cry 2). That much has leaked out over the past year. Any other details, well, they're both up in the air and probably beyond this thread's scope. It might be out of the thread's scope as you mentioned, but do you have any more info on that lead designers bit? I hadn't heard anything about that.
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Dec 26, 2013 20:15
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Urban Brawl just got a surprise addon.
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Dec 26, 2013 20:18
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Is Wolf4SDL still the preferred Wolfenstein 3D source port?
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Dec 26, 2013 21:03
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Is Wolf4SDL still the preferred Wolfenstein 3D source port? I prefer ECWolf myself.
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Dec 26, 2013 21:13
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catlord posted:I prefer ECWolf myself. That looks way better, thanks!
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Dec 26, 2013 21:15
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Yodzilla posted:Yeah this is loving bonkers. Okay Mortal Kombat in Doom is already pretty "what the gently caress?" but when he gets out of the arcade unit and walks around and changes characters and then comes back...  That's loving insane. Arcade units and preposterously big SNES controllers. This man is a real life mad scientist. Dude is undeniably both brilliant and insane. jerkstoresup posted:Not exactly high-res, but it's a pretty cool upgrade: Team Hellspawn's Voxel Project turns the sprites of most items into 3D voxel models. From a distance everything appears to still be a sprite, but they stay in place and have dimension when you look at them up close. Oooh, me likey...
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Dec 26, 2013 22:08
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Tangentally related, but I was reading the gif thread in pyf and I got really really confused.jgrrr posted:
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Dec 26, 2013 22:48
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Super cool alternate intro for Quake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPJdNKa3e-A
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Dec 26, 2013 23:33
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Well I know what I'm adding next update.
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Dec 26, 2013 23:40
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Johnny Law posted:The Quake Advent Calendar @ quaddicted.com is complete: Hi there, Preach here under another moniker, thanks for the nod. Just to re-iterate that sock's map is fantastic, a gorgeous example of the quality Quake maps can reach these days. Good fun to play, and lots of non-linearity & exploration if you want to seek it out.
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Dec 27, 2013 00:31
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Geight posted:It might be out of the thread's scope as you mentioned, but do you have any more info on that lead designers bit? I hadn't heard anything about that.
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Dec 27, 2013 09:20
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Meanwhile distributed to this day with Source engine games is a help file for Worldcraft from 1998 along with instructions that tell you to visit a Valve internal site from 10 years ago for more info. It's also not like there's been no development, the newer games (L4D2, Dota) have Lua scripting capabilities! A BSP-based renderer is still horrific in 2013 though. Computers are fast now! Luigi Thirty fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 09:25
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The Kins posted:A personnel-management webtool Valve use accidentally exposed itself to the outside world a while back, so people could see who was assigned to what projects etc. Two of the names assigned to L4D3 - the most staffed-up unannounced project - were Clint Hocking (Far Cry 2 lead designer) and Doug Church (Ultima Underworld, Thief, System Shock). It's a small detail, but it makes it seem a lot more interesting than the game's name would imply... Is Far Cry 2 an immersive sim? I thought it was just another FPS.
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Dec 27, 2013 09:28
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Pope Guilty posted:Is Far Cry 2 an immersive sim? I thought it was just another FPS. Far Cry 2's whole thing was the smart AI encounters that hunted the player down dynamically in an open-world setting. L4D is that but with zombies. e: Ugh. BSP-based levels are terrible. It's easy to create levels fast but brushes are so horrible to work with and Source's tools for working with models in your levels are awful. There's really low hard limits on things like that in the engine. Don't forget that there's still legacy code in there going back to Quake 1. That's worse than the Call of Duty engine being a fancy Quake 3 engine. Luigi Thirty fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 09:32
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Luigi Thirty posted:It's also not like there's been no development, the newer games (L4D2, Dota) have Lua scripting capabilities! A BSP-based renderer is still horrific in 2013 though. Computers are fast now! quote:Levels for the original Half-life consisted mostly of brush work and few models, today hardware is much more powerful and as a result levels are increasingly becoming more model based. Do you predict an end to brush built levels in future valve games?
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Dec 27, 2013 09:33
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Google failed me, what is the difference between model and brush-based/BSP editing?
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Dec 27, 2013 10:15
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With modeling the world is a complete 3D mesh. This means that it can be as complex as you want it to be and it can be fully dynamic. You can create a level in Maya and import it into your game, no stupid editors required. The problem is that you need a more powerful computer to run it. A lot of stuff needs to be done at runtime. For a long time home computers weren't capable of this at any kind of speed with detail. Game developers of the early 90s needed something faster so they came up with adapting BSP for video games. This worked well in a 2.5D engine. But what about full 3D? 3D games use brushwork the way 2.5D games use linedefs to create sectors. Brushes are the solids that form the shape of the level. The world is divided into regions based on which regions can see each other. With BSP, the game knows exactly what you can see from where you're standing and knows it only needs to render certain sets of polygons. The visibility and lighting calculations are all done on the mapper's computer and compiled into the map. The mapper also has to guide the visibility calculations through special brushes that fine tune the process. The skeleton of the world has to therefore be static for all the calculations to make sense. The environment itself can't move or deform. The system requirements are a lot lower though which is why BSP modeling has been used for so long. There's so many headaches with BSP though. Brushes have to be convex. The algorithm sucks at large open areas such as the outdoors because they're too hard to divide into sectors. Dynamic activity is possible in these engines but limited. For the BSP calculations to work, the visibility areas cannot change. Only special brushes and models can move and they still have loads of limitations. If there's a hole in your geometry where the world can see the void, all the calculations have to be thrown out and it just won't work. You might fall through the floor or something. And then you have to find the hole and plug it.
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Dec 27, 2013 10:44
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Luigi Thirty posted:The second half of Doom 2 is terrible Jesus. The levels are labyrinths. The city levels look horrible. Sandy or whoever did them just could not do outdoor environments like that. Whoever did that level The Chasm should be shot. Yeah they're pretty terrible. I think Im on the last few levels of doom 2 and just finished one where I had to shoot a wall to get to the exit. I'm fine with wandering around looking for keys but thought that was kind of stupid.
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Dec 27, 2013 11:54
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Luigi Thirty posted:e: Ugh. BSP-based levels are terrible. It's easy to create levels fast but brushes are so horrible to work with and Source's tools for working with models in your levels are awful. There's really low hard limits on things like that in the engine. Don't forget that there's still legacy code in there going back to Quake 1. That's worse than the Call of Duty engine being a fancy Quake 3 engine. Ultimately this means that either your map looks like poo poo, or your map is built entirely from prefabs, which defeats the point and it runs like poo poo anyways. Nobody should be using BSPs in the year of our lord 2013. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 17:21
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Brasseye posted:Yeah they're pretty terrible. I think Im on the last few levels of doom 2 and just finished one where I had to shoot a wall to get to the exit. I'm fine with wandering around looking for keys but thought that was kind of stupid. I swapped out my Doom 2 maps with the Doom 2 The Way id Did It maps. Honestly, while Doom 2 wasn't entirely terrible, it benefitted from these new maps. I replaced my Doom 1 maps with the D1 Doom The Way id Did It maps because I think all the original maps, except for the shareware maps, suck rear end. Toss in the dhtp high resolution pack, sergeant_mark_iv's Heavy Metal Doom soundrack, his Brutal Doom v19 mod, and a regeneration mod, and it's like you have a whole new game. It's Doom, but it's even Doomier than the original.
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Dec 27, 2013 19:30
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Jakcson posted:
You are trying to give poor Tiger Schwert an aneurysm, aren't you
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