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If we're spit-balling what we would like to see ME4 open with, I would suggest the following: 1. Have the "Control" ending be canon. This leaves Geth and AI present throughout the universe, and the relays are rebuilt by the Shepard controlled Reapers. 2. Don't have said Reapers be a constant presence. "They drifted back into dark space, and haven't been seen since." Something like that. 3. Set it is a significant amount of time after ME3. I'm talking, maybe a hundred years or something crazy like that. Imagine how cool it would be to see the world of Mass Effect evolve even further. Since the extinction cycle was broken, technology and AI could advance even further than what we saw in ME3. You could visit a reinvigorated Tuchanka. Additionally, given the life-span of some species, you could still rub elbows with characters like Aria or (possibly) Liara. Hell, you could even bring up the Dark Matter subplot and make it an important narrative ten tpole, given that after a hundred years, more star systems might have become unstable.
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Dec 28, 2013 19:53
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Brandon Keener has such a distinctive voice though, so far I've spotted him in Castle, LA Noire and Buffy. With the other Turians it sounds like they put a slight distort on the lower range of the voices, but if you listen to Keener in anything else, his voice seems to do the Turian distort on its own.
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Dec 28, 2013 19:56
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1st AD posted:Choices don't have consequences though, because no matter what you have to accept what the Catalyst is doing either by choosing one of it's options or by doing nothing and letting everyone get wiped out. For a series that tricks you into thinking that self-determination is a thing, it really takes a dump on everything you've accomplished at the end. But still, I can deal with that somewhat if BioWare could at least not make the choices they do give you be ridiculous cop-outs. I suppose my main issue with the whole thing is that the vast majority of Mass Effect players just push the paragon "I win" option all the time and everything comes out smelling like roses. BioWare does nothing to try to convince people to really think about the options they are given and what sort of an impact that will have in the future. There is no tough thinking or having to consider moral conundrums. Dragon Age Origins handled this much better in general. Even the ME3 ending choice wasn't anything different. If it means blowing up the reapers, most people aren't going to think twice about exterminating synthetics. Instead of thinking about things, they instead make excuses as to how the other two choices aren't what the Catalyst says they are so they can pretend there is only one right option. ME2's ending choice suffered similarly. The consideration of giving the base to Cerberus as a serious option is hampered by how BioWare presented issues in the past. First of all they didn't think ahead (no surprise there) considering Cerberus in ME1 existed to provide side quests for Shepard. People just used the incompetence argument to argue against saving the base, which should not have been one players could make. Ignoring that, BioWare did nothing to make players believe that the "paragon" option might not always be the best one and that you should actually stop and think about destroying a unique and extremely valuable source of intelligence on your enemy. I suppose what I'm trying to say is, not only does BioWare have problems with the choices they give the player, they also have a problem with how they present them to the player in such a way as to make different options credible and sensible based on what you're trying to achieve. Edit: SuitcoatAvenger posted:2. Don't have said Reapers be a constant presence. "They drifted back into dark space, and haven't been seen since." Something like that. Having the Reapers stay in dark space would be counterproductive in that sense, I think. It's also a cop-out for them to not be a constant presence having a real impact on things. Inverness fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Dec 28, 2013 |
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Dec 28, 2013 20:02
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SuitcoatAvenger posted:If we're spit-balling what we would like to see ME4 open with, I would suggest the following: "The Reapers kinda just left" would be almost as much of a cop out as "Destroy actually worked just fine, all our AI buddies are right here!" But really if they did do the Destroy wasn't so bad cop out and made the reconciliation of Geth and Quarians and Krogan/Turians/Salarians canon I'd be ok with it all the same, because it provides the best set up for a relatively stable universe where most of the previous issues of the past games can be ignored in favor of new stuff. I personally want to see the whole "oh yeah the Asari totally were a bunch of technology hoarding dickbags" thing brought back up and see the Asari get smacked down hard for it because that made me more angry than almost anything else in the entire series and it's barely a reveal before the game moves on to other things in its rush to finish.
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Dec 28, 2013 20:03
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^^ I haven't gotten that far with the DLC, but doesn't Javik say something to that extent? "We gave you all of this poo poo to help you prepare for the next cycle and you hoarded it?!" Say what you will about the game, but I think Invisible War dealt with the "Which Of The Three Endings From The Previous Game Do We Use" issue pretty cleverly, by having them all happen in bits and pieces. You had JC/Helios merge, but caused the gently caress-It-All ending, and then the Illuminati picked up the pieces. Come to think of it, DX had the same general choices as ME3: Destroy/Tong, Control/Illuminati, Synthesis/Helios.
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Dec 28, 2013 20:08
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I think the Synthesis ending is the most interesting when it comes to the future. The obvious problem is that it's space magic that makes no sense. If they could retcon that into being something relatively sensible then I would be okay with it as a canon ending when ME4 comes around. Then, you could end up playing a reaper in ME4.  Character creation would be you designing your mobile organic platform or some such. When you get killed in battle you can spit out some Harbinger-inspired line about terrible vengeance before activating a spare body from a vat on your ship (which is you). The equivalent of your pre-service history selection in ME1 would be instead choosing what race got milkshaked in order to make you, which helps determine your personality and what idea you're trying to live up to or something.I think it would be an interesting challenge to try to do something like that and make it work without crap like laser guided amnesia in order to make the character a blank slate. A big factor would be how much of the original races that went into making the Reapers are left in them now. The original idea with the Reapers was them being fully synthetic and having organic memories being uploaded into them when they are created. That got replaced with the organic milkshake nonsense in ME2. Inverness fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Dec 28, 2013 |
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Dec 28, 2013 20:45
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SuitcoatAvenger posted:If we're spit-balling what we would like to see ME4 open with, I would suggest the following: So, basically nothing happened and the plot is, essentially, where it was as of Mass Effect 1? That's... pretty lame.
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Dec 28, 2013 20:54
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Inverness posted:It's not just the endings either, I have a real issue with how they butchered the Geth's character. It's total bullshit to imply that they weren't really alive the way they were before and they need to become more like organics to be considered of worth. It's also ridiculous how their whole interest as a networked AI with a lack of individuality wanting to join together as one giant entity was ignored and discarded in the way that you actually make them do the exact opposite of what they really wanted. You may have already read this, but the guy who wrote Legion/the Geth left after ME2, and was angry about exactly this when ME3 came out. It really was a complete about-face. For me, it wasn't just that they suddenly wanted to be real boys, it was that the Geth's whole dyson sphere project was suddenly happening around Rannoch. There was no reason for them to set it up there beyond sentimentality, which they weren't supposed to have, and there'd be significant defensive advantages to it happening in the middle of nowhere around a star nobody was ever likely to visit, which is what was implied in ME2. And I'm pretty sure it would kill Rannoch, which Legion stated they were maintaining. The entire setup for each race facing extinction was very manufactured.
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Dec 28, 2013 21:34
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Cheston posted:You may have already read this, but the guy who wrote Legion/the Geth left after ME2, and was angry about exactly this when ME3 came out. It really was a complete about-face. I thought the whole concept of the Quarians being in any way a threat to the Geth was ridiculous. This is partly even possible due to the fantastical and nonsensical way hacking is portrayed in sci-fi. I think the Quarians should have only been a threat to themselves and should have promptly gotten themselves killed if they didn't cease their nonsensical war with the Geth. The Geth would be with Shepard either way, but failing to stop the Quarians' mass suicide would mean no Quarians and less Geth available to help with the Reapers.
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Dec 28, 2013 22:20
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Inverness posted:Yes, reading what Chris said about AI characters is in large part responsible for my change of opinion when it comes to AI in sci-fi. I used to think Legion's obsession with Shepard was interesting and endearing around when ME2 came out, but my thinking on AI has since changed so I get annoyed when people imply that AI becoming more like humans is somehow necessary for validation and/or acknowledgement, or necessarily a good thing at all. That's why Rannoch bugged me as well. From the moment we found Legion trapped instead of disseminated back into the collective, it became clear that the writers had completely forgotten how the Geth were supposed to work. It wasn't quite as bad as EDI all but asking "What is this thing you call love?", but still foreshadowed some cliche writing coming. It only got worse later when the Catalyst started spewing its ridiculous "synthetic vs. organic leads to inevitable war" nonsense. Even then, the quarians probably got hit worse than the geth. They look like suicidal, belligerent idiots for starting this war against a vastly superior opponent at the expense of what few resources they have, but doing so right as the Reapers are invading. I could see some hardliners like Xen or Tali's dad's friend pulling something crazy, but the entire species dedicating themselves to something as ridiculous as a second war while the apocalypse comes just diminishes them all. Even the krogan knew better than to waste time with old grudges during the apocalypse. This scenario was really forced. The writers were determined to have the player choose between the two races simply for the sake of having another "big choice". Geostomp fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 02:03
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Inverness posted:I haven't worked up enough interest to play ME3 since I learned about the endings. They just totally sapped my interest in the last game. I hear ME3 gameplay is good, but it doesn't offer anything I can't get elsewhere. My real interest was in the story. Of course I also hated the ending so much that I watched one of those indoctrination theory fan documentaries...and was honestly willing to accept that as the ending...because it was so much better than the lovely stock one. Can someone tell me what the hell the extended ending DLC added? Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 02:33
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gfanikf posted:Can someone tell me what the hell the extended ending DLC added? You can find each one here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mass+effect+3+extended+cut+ending Geostomp posted:That's why Rannoch bugged me as well.
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Dec 29, 2013 02:44
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There's nothing wrong with the Quarians being a threat. For all the similarities, this isn't BSG. The Qs left their planet with much more people/ships, live in a galaxy where they are (at least) tolerated by other races, have a coming-of-age ritual that involves bringing back technology, and the artificial race they fought against isn't interested in genociding them. Taken together, you have a race that is inherently stable and capable of growing. The Qs are belligerent assholes, because they never had anything to dissuade them from the mentality that one day they'll take back their homeworld from their malfunctioning slave-droids.
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Dec 29, 2013 02:45
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The Extended Cut DLC adds some good stuff - the fact that the extending is extended with an actual denouement is good. However, it also makes a lot of little, weird changes (I swear it alters TIM's dialogue during the confrontation with him), adds a bizarre scene where the Normandy touches down right in front of Harbinger but isn't shot down, nullifies a lot of the dramatic moments that worked (the Normandy is no longer caught in an explosion), and makes the planetside ending that much weirder. The Normandy lands on a strange unknown world, then flies away. Okay? It's better, sure, but that's not saying much when you remember the original ME3 endings. Still, it's not a marked improvement - it's just making what was there slightly more palatable. It turns a terrible ending into one that is 'okay, I guess'. For a full list: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect_3:_Extended_Cut
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Dec 29, 2013 03:06
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Inverness posted:As far as I know it only gives you better, extended ending sequences that actually show you what is happening afterwards and also explains why Joker mysteriously left Earth and ended up in the mass relay when the beam hit. I really do think for all the sins Bioware committed at times, they really got the feeling of dread and destruction (with the intentional exception of the Citadel) and also scope. I do love how the Reapers move around in the background and the stress and fears of people affected by them (just in the background dialogue). Milky Moor posted:The Extended Cut DLC adds some good stuff - the fact that the extending is extended with an actual denouement is good. However, it also makes a lot of little, weird changes (I swear it alters TIM's dialogue during the confrontation with him), adds a bizarre scene where the Normandy touches down right in front of Harbinger but isn't shot down, nullifies a lot of the dramatic moments that worked (the Normandy is no longer caught in an explosion), and makes the planetside ending that much weirder. The Normandy lands on a strange unknown world, then flies away. Okay? Hmm, it seems that they really went out of their way to poo poo on the whole idea of indoctrination. Though oddly a lot of ideas discussed in the video still kind of make sense. Still it does make a lot more sense now and you're dead on with "okay, I guess". I did get a chuckle out of how painfully obvious the Shepard, "okay this makes no sense, provide more exposition" choices were. Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 03:07
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Inverness posted:Retconning the Destroy ending so it only kills reapers and not all synthetics would be the worst cop-out ever. It's totally abandoning the idea that choices have consequences. I hope BioWare isn't that far gone yet.
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Dec 29, 2013 03:36
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It only seems that way because of the Extended Cut's revisions and people's -- warranted -- cynicism.
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Dec 29, 2013 03:40
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Why the hell did Bioware, just not have the ending like it was in the extended one originally? Has anyone ever gotten the internal reason for it (even if just internet hearsay)? While I agree it is still a bit standard, I really feel if that had been the ending on launch, people would by and large been happy with it, maybe a little underwhelmed, but the game would not have the mixed or negative feelings it seems to engender for a lot of people. Honestly, watching it now I would have been fine with it.U.T. Raptor posted:I'm pretty sure Bioware only added the "EDI and the geth will die" part so everyone wouldn't immediately choose Destroy. Well that and to dissuade people who felt bad that Joker wouldn't get laid. Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 03:42
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gfanikf posted:Well that and to dissuade people who felt bad that Joker wouldn't get laid. I'm pretty sure that if we had access to the technology seen in the Mass Effect universe one of the first things we'd do is make highly advanced holodeck porn that lets even cripples get their rocks off so I'm not too concerned about that considering Joker is willing to settle for a robot in the first place. Killing the Geth bugged me though since I worked my rear end off to get the Rannoch Golden Ending.
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Dec 29, 2013 03:48
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U.T. Raptor posted:I'm pretty sure Bioware only added the "EDI and the geth will die" part so everyone wouldn't immediately choose Destroy. I myself favor Synthesis. Ignoring how it's executed with ridiculous space magic in ME3, I think the concept has merit. Adding some synthetic-ness to organics and adding some organic-ness to synthetics to help achieve understanding seems like a good idea.
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Dec 29, 2013 03:50
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Dan Didio posted:It only seems that way because of the Extended Cut's revisions and people's -- warranted -- cynicism. Not really. It was obvious from the first cut. They had to put EDI and the Geth on the chopping block because otherwise there'd be no reason for the player to not choose what was always the main goal of the series. Inverness posted:I agree. Like I said, BioWare does a bad job of convincing people to really consider the choices that are available. I don't because, frankly, it makes no sense. Beyond being purest space magic, what does it even mean? Are all the computers suddenly stuffed with meat? What happened with everyone suddenly learning that the know nothing about their new bodies? What about all those husk monsters who are now alive again and trapped in monstrous bodies that have been used as killing machines? How does it even prevent conflict? Is everybody mentally altered? If so, how is forcibly re-writing everyone's minds against their will at all morally acceptable? More than that, it completely undermines the theme of diversity the series had built up. It flat out says that our differences are insurmountable and that the only path to peace is to become the same. It's a little offensive, honestly. Give it the slightest bit of thought and Synthesis falls apart. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 03:51
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Fojar38 posted:I'm pretty sure that if we had access to the technology seen in the Mass Effect universe one of the first things we'd do is make highly advanced holodeck porn that lets even cripples get their rocks off so I'm not too concerned about that considering Joker is willing to settle for a robot in the first place. One would hope...one would hope. quote:Killing the Geth bugged me though since I worked my rear end off to get the Rannoch Golden Ending.  . Granted, I could honestly live with that, since otherwise it would have to be some massive EMP attack to wipe everything out...which would screw everyone.Inverness posted:I agree. Like I said, BioWare does a bad job of convincing people to really consider the choices that are available. Synthesis always bugged me, because in part it was the destruction of what made humanity unique...and it also made me feel that it was just so Joke could get laid and that it was a forced choice to avoid eventual synthetic supremacy and implied organic destruction. EDIT: ^^^ Yeah that too. It seemed like a false utopia. Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 03:51
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I feel like any discussion of ME3 and its ending should really just ignore Synthesis. It may be there and it may be a possible canon option but it's also something most people agree is a dumb ending that basically exists as a idiotic, inconsistent cop out on the part of the writers to work themselves out of the corner they got stuck in with space magic way beyond what was already in the universe. I agree with all the stuff that was said about the Geth, and it makes that whole sequence on Rannoch even more disappointing to me than it already was given that the Geth were by far my favorite ME universe aliens. I definitely agree with whoever said that Rannoch should've just been the Geth hanging out and waiting for Shepard to come so they could be all, "hey buddy, we're totally down for this Reaper War thing but can you make our crazy parents play nice with us so we don't have to bomb them back to the Stone Age, tia." That would've been way more consistent with the direction the writing had gone than the idiotic false equivalency they gave us.
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Dec 29, 2013 04:06
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Geostomp posted:I don't because, frankly, it makes no sense. Beyond being purest space magic, what does it even mean? Are all the computers suddenly stuffed with meat? What happened with everyone suddenly learning that the know nothing about their new bodies? What about all those husk monsters who are now alive again and trapped in monstrous bodies that have been used as killing machines? quote:More than that, it completely undermines the theme of diversity the series had built up. It flat out says that our differences are insurmountable and that the only path to peace is to become the same. It's a little offensive, honestly. The way I see it is you've got two people who can't communicate and are two impatient/fearful to learn each other's languages before deciding to start a war over perceived differences. Synthesis is downloading knowledge of each others' languages into them so they can begin to communicate properly. Either way I wholly disagree with the idea that synthesis means people are suddenly going to lose their diversity and everyone becomes the same. I'm not even sure where they idea came from at all. gfanikf posted:Synthesis always bugged me, because in part it was the destruction of what made humanity unique...and it also made me feel that it was just so Joke could get laid and that it was a forced choice to avoid eventual synthetic supremacy and implied organic destruction. Again, the ending doesn't do much of a good job of explaining what is going on (no surprise there), but it seems like some want to assume the worst. Actually it seems a bit pointless to argue about it with that in mind. We just end up talking about our own interpretations which aren't really canon and can be good or bad depending on the way people want things to be.
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Dec 29, 2013 04:21
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Inverness posted:Can you explain why you think it is destroying what makes humanity unique? Being born of flesh and blood and striving despite the limitations of our frail bodies (or not so frail if you're a Krogan). It also treats organic and synthetics as the only great divide and conflict. I know that is what the catalyst is saying, but to sum up the galaxy and all its issues as meatbags and non meatbags need to start banging (or space magic) and all will be good just seems like bullshit. I mean the Catalyst is just an AI that went rogue, how can we trust its logic or analysis? Also the idea of hey you need to merge with robots to stop a gneocidal war against you...is well dumb as opposed to killing them. More so the merger is not consensual beyond Sheperad, it seems...well wrong to enforce upon all species. Keep in mind a lot of stuff I had against the ending also came from interpretation of it with the indoctrination theory.
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Dec 29, 2013 04:38
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I really hope they don't rush Mass Effect 4. It's going to be the game that forces me to buy a PS4 or Xbox One.
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Dec 29, 2013 04:47
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gfanikf posted:Thanks, I remember when I first saw the that file was an extra 1.3 gb that it would be something significantly, but all the descriptions didn't really seem to add much. Apparently a lot of the file size is due to a bunch of video files that play during the epilogue that should, by all rights, be still images. They're not, however. quote:I really do think for all the sins Bioware committed at times, they really got the feeling of dread and destruction (with the intentional exception of the Citadel) and also scope. I do love how the Reapers move around in the background and the stress and fears of people affected by them (just in the background dialogue). Oh, yeah, definitely. Seeing those Reapers move around in the background of the Turian moon was incredible and nailed that feeling of an apocalypse having turned up on your front door. I'm pretty critical of ME3 but, really, Bioware did do a lot of things well. The problem is, not many of them are related to the plot. The gameplay is solid, the multiplayer is fantastic. The character moments are great and the ship is probably the most 'real' it has ever felt. It really is just the general plot, the sudden sense of a 'canon' Shepard they wanted you to play (Earthborn, romances Liara) and, above all else, the ending that really brings the game down. For me, I think the game is just fine up until Rannoch and, in particular, until the end of the Geth Dreadnaught mission. It's from that point on where the quality of the game just seems to drop lower and lower until you reach the underwhelming ending. It's just all the worse because Mass Effect 2 was, all in all, basically perfect.
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Dec 29, 2013 04:54
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Geostomp posted:More than that, it completely undermines the theme of diversity the series had built up. It flat out says that our differences are insurmountable and that the only path to peace is to become the same. It's a little offensive, honestly. This is good point. It being offensive is a credit to the first two games, at least. Inverness posted:I think you're way overstating what the changes are. Synthesis (predicated on what the Catalyst/Bioware word-of-gods) is saying that these two people cannot ever communicate properly, or that if they do they will still eventually start a war over perceived differences. On that argument, it says that the only permanent solution to this is to make them be alike, in a way that necessitates (and forces) a fundamental change in being. That's more than just language. It doesn't need to be a significant change on the personal level (we have circuit skin, I guess? nbd) for the change on the vaguely-defined overall level (We are now the same as Them) to strongly violate the previously-established themes of the series.
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Dec 29, 2013 05:00
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Man, the thing that bugs me the most about Synthesis is that the Reapers are just still around, hanging out. Just because everyone is suddenly part of a weird synthorganic utopia doesn't mean that they should be OK with the Reapers murdering like several billion people. At least you're literally controlling them in Control -- Synthesis is like galactic permission to sit at the cool kids' table, only all the cool kids are genocidaires.
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Dec 29, 2013 05:05
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Milky Moor posted:Apparently a lot of the file size is due to a bunch of video files that play during the epilogue that should, by all rights, be still images. They're not, however. I basically agree with this but I think the point where the game started to fall apart for me was when you first arrive in the Rannoch system, well before the dreadnaught mission (which was a good mission in and of itself but was ridiculous plot-wise), though the "what the gently caress this is kind of dumb" feeling I guess started to creep in as soon as Kai Lang showed up on the Citadel when Cerberus invades. I honestly think the high point of ME3 for me was watching Kalros fight the Reaper Destroyer. Nothing following that really quite compared and it just couldn't capture that kind of awesomeness after that point.
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Dec 29, 2013 05:07
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Lightning Knight posted:I honestly think the high point of ME3 for me was watching Kalros fight the Reaper Destroyer. Nothing following that really quite compared and it just couldn't capture that kind of awesomeness after that point. Kai Leng was dumb as hell.
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Dec 29, 2013 05:25
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Alright here's what's what: To recap, the big theme of the trilogy is choices, consequences, legacy, etc. Basically everything revolves around the actions of those past in some way affecting the present, and the choices made today affecting the future. It's a really good theme for a series built around player choice! Now a big part of that is intergenerational conflict (ie. parent-child, creator-created, organic-synthetic). The predecessors have made decisions, good or bad, that the future generations will have to live with, but also they will be or are making decisions themselves (good or bad) that their 'parents' will be affected by, or may not like, or whatever. So, conflict! Sometimes this can be reconciled- the Geth and Quarians can find peace, Thane and Kolyat can bond, and so on. Sometimes it cannot- Morinth is a monster, not purely her own fault, but she cannot be allowed to continue to murder and she will not stop peacefully. But the point is that everything passes away in time, leaving a legacy behind that shapes the future, and they will leave their own mark and so on. The Reapers are both the ultimate rejection and perversion of this process. They are immortal, they are all-powerful, and all-shaping and all-imposing. They reject 'death' and continue to exist, shaping and purging and indoctrinating. They will never pass on, and are so powerful they can not be denied. Like a really pushy grandparent that is always meddling in family business and noone likes and just won't die. They are also a perversion on that process of replacement. Not only do they stick around, they also forcibly turn races into new reapers, and horribly kill and pervert the others into monsters. They take the essence of the 'new' into themselves, without actually being replaced. They're a lich, or a succubus that steals life and youth from others so they can live forever. It's not a perfect merger- the view of the young is lost in and subservient to the will of the Reapers, that's why it's perverted. So we apply this to the endings: Destroy is simple, it's a rejection of the Reapers. It doesn't offer any solution to the whole 'intergenerational conflict' thing itself, but maybe there isn't one, or there doesn't need to be a solution? Maybe things don't always work out for the best but we have to try. We have to take each issue, each new idea or viewpoint, on it's own. That's life. There's no one way to solve all problems forever, because something new will always come up. Or maybe there is a solution (that isn't control or synthesis because just choose them in that case!)? Either way, the Reapers CANNOT be allowed to continue. But, as written, it also involves destroying all synthetics. To be free of the bad aspects of the past (Reapers) we must sacrifice the future (synthetics, metaphorically)? Or maybe just one possible future. I dunno? Was tacking on that part a transparent ploy by Bioware to try and dissuade people. Yes, but now it's there so yeah. Synthesis is, like Lt. Danger I think it was, saying, a kind of metaphorical 'merging' of past and future, parent and child, creator and created, organic and synthetic. Everything is infinitely ancient and in its conception at the same time. Kind of. Sort of. Its really weird, but interesting in a crazy art-house sci-fi philosophy way? It's hard to imagine because such a state is so unlike our own existence, so I'm not really surprised Bioware dropped the ball. Because they dropped it loving hard. As is the actual thing we got is just a shambles. They focused too much on the robot aspect of it, leaned to heavily on space-magic and we got just a bunch of absurdity and holes and awkward questions. Joker's hat. The husks. The geth. What does this mean???? And so on. I'm not really even sure such a high-concept idea 'fits' in Mass Effect, like tonally or something. The Catalyst is right about one thing though- it's the 'perfect' form of what the Reapers do. They are immortal and ancient, but continually harvest the new, merging them into one in a horrific way. Synthesis completes that, merging the two in harmony(?), without all the blood and violence and whatnot, but also makes past and future equals, instead of one absorbed into the other. Control is interesting, because it's at least a partial agreement with the Reapers. I really can't imagine a Shepard of any bent continuing the reapings (no more perversion as above), but also I have to assume that Shep wouldn't tell them to fly into a blackhole or something, because that defeats the entire purpose of control as an ending. Whether they take an active role might depend on Paragon or Renegade, but ultimately the Reapers will continue to exist. They will be immortal, ever watching, ever 'I should go'-ing, ever finding trinkets and scanning planets. They're also still super strong and will continue to impose on the galaxy, even if just implicitly. They can't leave a legacy because they will never pass away. The reject ending is... well the Reapers/Catalyst believes that old/new conflict is a problem and it's right. It had one solution that is untenable, and some new ones are offered that you can agree with or not. Reject however, is not just a rejection of the Catalyst's solutions or any of the other possibilities, you're rejecting that there even is conflict between new and old, between past and present, or whatever. And that's stupid as hell. Because that's sort of implying that you have no issue with the Reapers doing what they do so it's totally fitting they 'win' in this ending. Is that what Bioware was actually trying to convey? I dunno. Is that what the players wanted when they asked to be able to debate with the catalyst? Definitely not. Was Bioware being petulant? Did they not understand what the players were objecting to? Did the players? Either way Reject is not simply rejecting the idea/existence of the Reapers, because that's Destroy. Mazerunner has become a legend by ending the ending debate. Now you can continue to build that legend by further posting and buying downloadable content. Mazerunner fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 05:26
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Lightning Knight posted:I basically agree with this but I think the point where the game started to fall apart for me was when you first arrive in the Rannoch system, well before the dreadnaught mission (which was a good mission in and of itself but was ridiculous plot-wise), though the "what the gently caress this is kind of dumb" feeling I guess started to creep in as soon as Kai Lang showed up on the Citadel when Cerberus invades. Originally, the Reaper was supposed to defeat Kalros. Given that they seemed to be going for 'No, you can't ever stop the Reapers' sort of feel, I really do wonder why they changed that.
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Dec 29, 2013 05:30
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Milky Moor posted:Originally, the Reaper was supposed to defeat Kalros. Given that they seemed to be going for 'No, you can't ever stop the Reapers' sort of feel, I really do wonder why they changed that. That actually would've made more sense I think (though it would've been way less awesome). I imagine they changed it because then what are you going to do to kill the drat thing if "summon bigger fish" fails? It's not like the Rannoch scenario where there's a doom fleet waiting in orbit for you to call in an airstrike. Edit: And Rannoch was dumb because there's the complete logical disconnect between "two of the largest fleets in the galaxy conducting orbital bombardment" and "relatively tiny bombing in front of Shepard that totally doesn't kill him/her as collateral damage since they're standing right loving there." I get that they wanted it to be all cool and whatever but it made no drat sense and had no internal consistency. At least Kalros eating the Destroyer on Tuchanka was remotely plausible within the own internal logic of the universe. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 05:46
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CitadelTalk: I realize it doesn't really matter, but does taking all the P/R interrupts doing pull-ups with Vega impact your P/R scores?
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Dec 29, 2013 05:50
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MisterBibs posted:CitadelTalk: I realize it doesn't really matter, but does taking all the P/R interrupts doing pull-ups with Vega impact your P/R scores? I didn't check because I had no use for it at the point I played it but I doubt it. You did every single one, right? 
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Dec 29, 2013 05:52
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Geostomp posted:Not really. It was obvious from the first cut. They had to put EDI and the Geth on the chopping block because otherwise there'd be no reason for the player to not choose what was always the main goal of the series. No, their destruction in the original Destroy ending is consistent with everything else in that ending; including the destruction of the relays, etc. etc. Giving the player more to think about with regards to what choice to take is a result of that, sure, but the notion that the whole ending was constructed in a specific way to spite the player only makes sense after it's viewed as an inconsistency; as it is in the Extended Cut. People's cynicism drew them to that conclusion beforehand, granted, but that's not from reading the ending as it was either. Milky Moor posted:Originally, the Reaper was supposed to defeat Kalros. Given that they seemed to be going for 'No, you can't ever stop the Reapers' sort of feel, I really do wonder why they changed that. Probably because it's a nice, foreboding ending to a trailer that gets you hyped for the game, but not so much as part of a mission chain that needs that Reaper to be gone for the atmosphere and events after to work.
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Dec 29, 2013 05:57
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Kibayasu posted:I didn't check because I had no use for it at the point I played it but I doubt it. You did every single one, right? It makes perfect sense. Shepard just solves problems by flexing and pointing at their biceps, everyone just goes along with it. Dan Didio posted:No, their destruction in the original Destroy ending is consistent with everything else in that ending; including the destruction of the relays, etc. etc. I dunno, the relays got blown up in every ending, while synthetics are only singled-out in Destroy, which does set it apart from the others. I'll soften my 'was it tacked on' stance to 'probably' instead of 'yes' but I really can't see how Bioware would think that people would give C or S the same consideration without that clause. Mazerunner fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 05:58
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The reaper beating Kalos might have made sense from a logistics standpoint, but from a story standpoint it wouldn't make much sense, because then the reaper would focus right back on you, and the post shroud scenes wouldn't really have the same sense of peace and calm. That and it would just add another "Reapers are unstoppable" layer to the game, which they kind of had a bad time balancing that "We can beat them!" without it seeming like a hopeless struggle.
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Dec 29, 2013 06:01
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Lightning Knight posted:Edit: And Rannoch was dumb because there's the complete logical disconnect between "two of the largest fleets in the galaxy conducting orbital bombardment" and "relatively tiny bombing in front of Shepard that totally doesn't kill him/her as collateral damage since they're standing right loving there." Lycus fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 06:10
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