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Shbobdb posted:See, to me, that is just revisionism, of the worst kind. Sure, nutters have been saying the government is always spying on you since forever. After the sweeping reforms of the PATRIOT Act, a bunch of fully sane people said, "Holy poo poo! This allows the government to spy on us all the time and is twelve kinds of wrong!" They were dismissed as crazies because crazies have always said that sort of thing. During the Kerry Campaign, there was an attempt at reconciliation where people, for example, who were always against the Iraq War were clearly nutters, people who were for it and have come to realize it was a clusterfuck (which no one could have seen!) are the voices we need to listen to. Of course, that crashed and burned. Who would you prefer: the effeminate, French Appeaser or the manly, American Decider? But the people on Coast to Coast have been saying that the goverment has been spying on its citizens for decades, and their fantasies were much more elaborate than the more prosaic methods actually used. Anyways, "Spying on its citizens" is such a generic theory, its like saying "the goverment assassinates people!" the base statement is true, but everything from the logic used (if there is any) to the reasons and the methods are completely different. I'd also say that the decades of tinfoil hatters running around yelling it may actually have made the general public to not take the whole thing more seriously. Crying wolf so to speak. Anyways, it sounds like you're trying to go for some "The crazies on coast to coast about this one thing, what else might they be right about!!!!???" And you can't really take seriously all the calls of those who were against the war in Iraq as crazies because 9/11 broke a lot of American's brains and they blindly followed anything Bush's cadre said and if anyone disagreed there was an easy reponse "Why do you hate America?". As if not wanting soldiers to die in a pointless war is somehow bad for them. And I am Canadian, and America has not been the best world citizen since 9/11, but its not hopeless. They just need to get all the people suffering from mental health issues out of goverment and the media and into places they can get treatment.
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Dec 30, 2013 19:57
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You're not so good at the whole "reading comprehension" thing, are you Twistedmentat?
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Dec 30, 2013 20:46
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Shbobdb posted:You're not so good at the whole "reading comprehension" thing, are you Twistedmentat? Wow, I completely misread your post. My line about you saying "what else could they be right about" is pretty showing. Derp, but clearly I agree with you that the years of the nutters saying crazy things and one of those crazy things turned out to be true (in a shallow sense) have numbed the public to real goverment overreach. And the ones talking about spying now have some people going "they could be right about Alien human hybrid bigfoots and the Shining is a confession on the moon landing hoax (Go watch Room 237, it's really good and if you like conspiracies its also fun hearing them and seeing the evidence presented).
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Dec 30, 2013 22:57
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BottledBodhisvata posted:There were never any aliens. Grey Aliens are actually future humans peering through the computer simulation to do some hands-on patching. That's why they only abduct retarded rednecks--they're not stupid, they're simply glitched programs. Weed is the matrix in debug mode. A good bud is like dropping a breakpoint right into the plans of the saucer fiends.
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Dec 31, 2013 01:05
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duck monster posted:Weed is the matrix in debug mode. A good bud is like dropping a breakpoint right into the plans of the saucer fiends. LSD is the blue pill.
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Dec 31, 2013 01:29
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BottledBodhisvata posted:LSD is the blue pill. Mens Rights Activism, the red one.
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Dec 31, 2013 04:25
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duck monster posted:Mens Rights Activism, the red one. No, you see, Mens Rights Activists are actually a feminist false flag meant to make men look bad so that the female takeover can commence and we'll all have to cut off our penises and shop at the Gap.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:22
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Its all a trap within a trap within a trap! Like a multi layered matryoshka with a tiny lizard at the center.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:30
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duck monster posted:Its all a trap within a trap within a trap! Like a multi layered matryoshka with a tiny lizard at the center. He knows too much. I'm ordering the drone strikes.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:32
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First rule of Conspiracy theories, your enemy has to be both the best and the worst.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:32
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So about those moon landing conspiracies; do most of those people just believe that the original moon landing was faked, or that the moon is impossible to reach and the very idea is preposterous? Do they believe in satellite communications?
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Dec 31, 2013 05:37
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Halloween Jack posted:So about those moon landing conspiracies; do most of those people just believe that the original moon landing was faked, or that the moon is impossible to reach and the very idea is preposterous? Do they believe in satellite communications? I think the "sensible" moon landing people don't doubt it is possible to reach the moon, and I don't think they doubt any of the subsequent moon landings, only that the famous one was faked due to how highly publicized it is and a few other aspects. Joe Rogan actually had Neil Degrasse Tyson on his podcast and they went over the moon landing photos and addressed the claims made by conspiracy theorists. Tyson basically knocks them all down, or at least explains how they are really weak conclusions based on limited evidence.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:39
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The Mythbusters TV show also went through and took a bunch of various theories and debunked them. There was one about the lighting conditions in a picture and another about what footprints would look like in moondust in a vacuum. They also debunked the "waving flag" theory and the one that the footage of Armstrong and Aldrin bouncing around was just sped up.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:47
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Halloween Jack posted:So about those moon landing conspiracies; do most of those people just believe that the original moon landing was faked, or that the moon is impossible to reach and the very idea is preposterous? Do they believe in satellite communications? Some of them are in the Impossible faction, for which I think the 'strongest' argument is that the Van Allen belt is some kind of instakill death zone. The rest think that it was faked at first just to put the Soviets in their place and prevent massive shame to America. Which oddly enough implicates the Soviets in the conspiracy as well, as they had everything to gain by exposing a landing they could easily track and expose as a fraud.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:49
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One of the big ones is that you can't travel in space because the radiation would kill you instantly. Ignoring that radiation shielding exists, and cosmic radiation isn't quite as powerful as the theoriests act. Not only that but the astronauts do have medical issues associated with very low level radiation exposure, but well within safety limits. But yea, NDgT does a really good debunking of the whole thing. Poor Phil Plate though, pretty much blindsided by the crazy that Joel Rogan was spewing on Penn Gilettes show. But when you are just bombarded with pot fueled crazyness, its hard to make a coherent come back on stuff. Though my favorite evidence is the "C Rock". Look there's a C on this rock, and everyone knows thats a propmasters mark from the movies, therefor HOAX!!!!! Ignoring that A) that is not a prop marking used by anyone and B) the photo they use is one seen in books and not the actual picture from Apollo 11, which shows no C. As for why, the least scary and more plausible one is to make the Russians fear the mighty US Space program, and to get the Russians to waste money trying to get their own moon mission done. More tinfoil hat ones involve the hoax being done so the US goverment cna squirrel away that money for something evil like MK Ultra or retrofitting alien nanoviruses, to the outright bizarre to hide Nazi Moon bases. My favorite crazy person, Richard Hoegland, has tons of stuff to say on this, and has a severe case of paradolia, because he sees things everywhere. He sees giant castles and crystal domes all over the moon, and pyramids along with the face on Mars, which is what made him famous. He also has his own madeup science called hyperdimentional physics. Funny enough he claims that John Carter proves this is real because the ninth ray from the movie is proof it exists, even though it doesn't share any similarities to his theories, until he changed them to suit the movie.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:59
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Listen, alright, the Sphinx was built thousands of years before we think it was and it was done by ALIENS no seriously just look at this weathering and erosion patterns where are you going please I have charts and graphs
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Dec 31, 2013 06:46
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Listen, alright, the Sphinx was built thousands of years before we think it was and it was done by ALIENS This reminds me of the ad that History showed for whatever season of Ancient Aliens is on (have they done one yet claiming the Nazi's had alien help?) that showed Georgio in front a wall with a map of the world and a massive web of red string going to random pictures of "proof" you know, Pyramids and that one statue that looks kinda weird. It looked like the evidence dungeon of a crazy person serial killer in a movie.
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Dec 31, 2013 07:51
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twistedmentat posted:This reminds me of the ad that History showed for whatever season of Ancient Aliens is on (have they done one yet claiming the Nazi's had alien help?) that showed Georgio in front a wall with a map of the world and a massive web of red string going to random pictures of "proof" you know, Pyramids and that one statue that looks kinda weird. It looked like the evidence dungeon of a crazy person serial killer in a movie. I'd love to find a youtube of this. I've never seen the show but I can't get enough ancient aliens.
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Dec 31, 2013 07:56
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It's like reverse Dunning-Kruger. It's hard not to get an idea of the scale of effort and brilliance required to land living men in a flying trash can on the Moon and bringing them back to Earth with the computing power of a Tamagotchi. "They're like, I don't know how to do that! So how could they?" Maybe a skeptic movement will emerge that alleges all events requiring massive coordination are a hoax. The "D" in D-Day stands for "Didn't happen" 
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Dec 31, 2013 08:09
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pd187 posted:I'd love to find a youtube of this. I've never seen the show but I can't get enough ancient aliens. Its not as fun as It sounds. The show is nothing but bad intrepretations of well understood historical artifacts and other objects, and outright lies. Most ancient alien things are like that though, or looking at one object completely without context or knowlage of the culture that made it. Hey this Mayan thing looks like a guy in a spaceship! Well, actually everything that looks like a spaceship is actually very common Maya artistic representations of well understood culturel beliefs. As for the lies, there are two great examples, one infuriating and the other amusing. First one is their claims that a stone in some area that was an ancient holy site for pretty much everyone is far beyond the abilities of the ancient people, when in fact the stone is much smaller than what the show claims AND it dates from Roman times who were very capable of moving stones that were the size of the one in question. The other is they base a lot of wacky ideas on this book that was supposed to have been channeled by some Hindu mystic and transcribed by an Englishmen. The book is pretty much a fantasy story about the Hindu gods doing battle with giant airships. Everyone knew this thing was a hoax until the Ancient ALiens people started promoting it as being a "Sanskrit manuscript from 8000 bc". The most infuriating member of the cast, Dr Childress loves to go on about how the book describes all kinds of advanced technology in detail, and how its all completely possible, such as mercury vortex engines and boats with paddles flying through the sky dropping nukes. He also loves appeal to authority as he's always talking about how NASA does this, and NASA does that, but never gives anything specific. Its just painful, like all those Nostradamus shows they used to have that used any kind of odd writing as a lost work of him.
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Dec 31, 2013 10:06
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I know a guy who claims the moon is hollow and is actually a secret space base for the Illuminati. He also believes the moon landings were faked.
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Dec 31, 2013 10:45
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Sergg posted:I know a guy who claims the moon is hollow and is actually a secret space base for the Illuminati. Well of course it is. Everyone knows that.
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Dec 31, 2013 11:12
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Sergg posted:I know a guy who claims the moon is hollow and is actually a secret space base for the Illuminati. He also believes the moon landings were faked. So.. If we can't get to the moon, how do the Illuminati get there & back? On the other hand, if it is relatively easy to get to the moon (so simple that the Illuminati choose the inside for a base instead of, say, somewhere remote on earth) then why fake it? Ah - of course, the Illuminati are just messing with us, like God and dinosaur bones. Those pesky Illuminati!
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Dec 31, 2013 11:18
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twistedmentat posted:Though my favorite evidence is the "C Rock". Look there's a C on this rock, and everyone knows thats a propmasters mark from the movies, therefor HOAX!!!!! Ignoring that A) that is not a prop marking used by anyone and B) the photo they use is one seen in books and not the actual picture from Apollo 11, which shows no C. When they showed that photo on the Fox special back in the X-Files years, I could've sworn that C was an obvious eye lash sitting on the photo. That whole special was weird.
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Dec 31, 2013 16:12
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duz posted:When they showed that photo on the Fox special back in the X-Files years, I could've sworn that C was an obvious eye lash sitting on the photo. That whole special was weird. Yea, it made the whole thing clear as just a bunch of people who don't understand or know any science. IF they're in space why are no stars visible????? Why is the flag waving in the picture!!!!??? I like the guy in the Penn and Teller episode who cracks up at the C rock, and then asks for his "water" which he keeps in a giant vodka bottle.
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Dec 31, 2013 19:58
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You know my dad? Apparently there's some ridiculous Russian TV program that spouts all kinds of nonsense like that and I've been having to hear it at every family gathering for the last year or so.
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Dec 31, 2013 20:04
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Whenever I hear about the moon hoax, I can only remember this Mitchell and Webb sketch. Or for that matter, on Area 51 conspiracies.
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Dec 31, 2013 20:22
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twistedmentat posted:This reminds me of the ad that History showed for whatever season of Ancient Aliens is on (have they done one yet claiming the Nazi's had alien help?) that showed Georgio in front a wall with a map of the world and a massive web of red string going to random pictures of "proof" you know, Pyramids and that one statue that looks kinda weird. It looked like the evidence dungeon of a crazy person serial killer in a movie. To be fair, I do think the Sphinx weathering is a pretty interesting detail that might support the existence of an advanced human society before Egypt. That doesn't seem particularly far-fetched considering how many holes we have in our historical records.
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Dec 31, 2013 20:36
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Randalor posted:Whenever I hear about the moon hoax, I can only remember this Mitchell and Webb sketch. In addition to being not very funny, the idea that the government would instinctively classify something like aliens isn't far-fetched when you consider how much poo poo is classified for no reason.
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Dec 31, 2013 20:48
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BottledBodhisvata posted:To be fair, I do think the Sphinx weathering is a pretty interesting detail that might support the existence of an advanced human society before Egypt. That doesn't seem particularly far-fetched considering how many holes we have in our historical records. Oh yes. There is nothing to suggest that there are not unknown civilizations that reached a certain level of cultural and technological sophistication that we don't know about because either later civs developed out of them and over top of them, or they're just in remoate areas we haven't discovered them in. The thing is, this basic "it could be" is take way too far to the crazy end zone when people start going ALIENS! And acting like archeologists are ignoring all their evidence because it might upset the neat march of history that they depend on, when in reality Archeologists would love to discover a previously unknown advanced civilization. Just that they need more than some guy who has looked at a lot of pictures of stuff in books who thinks one carving on a steele looks like a space ship.
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Dec 31, 2013 21:28
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Yeah, in a similar situation, I'd say that if anyone would lie about aliens, it would be NASA. Not to cover them up, but the opposite; to fake alien contact so they'd get more funding.
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Dec 31, 2013 22:08
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ponzicar posted:Yeah, in a similar situation, I'd say that if anyone would lie about aliens, it would be NASA. Not to cover them up, but the opposite; to fake alien contact so they'd get more funding. Yeah, I can promise you that if real, honest-to-god aliens landed in Times Square tomorrow and announced their existence to the world, every single alien-based conspiracy person would denounce them as a hoax.
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Dec 31, 2013 23:51
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OzyMandrill posted:So.. No that makes sense if you take the illuminati having a moonbase as axiomatic, obviously the illuminati won't ALLOW us to go to the moon 'cause we'd find their moonbase, so if we appear to have gotten there it must be fake.
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Jan 1, 2014 00:09
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ponzicar posted:Yeah, in a similar situation, I'd say that if anyone would lie about aliens, it would be NASA. Not to cover them up, but the opposite; to fake alien contact so they'd get more funding. NASA basically does this already, in a lighter way. Every year or so they release a BS press release about how they may have found some form of evidence of life on mars/asteroids/moons of jupiter, or they hype up a nonfinding as evidence for the possibility of life elsewhere.
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Jan 1, 2014 00:24
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Does "liberal media" count as a conspiracy? Because I was listening to Rush's fill in going on about the NY Times Benghazi story and saying "they" only ran it now because "they" don't want to do stories on Obamacare, the economy and gently caress if I can remember what else. Who are "they" and why do right wing conspiracy minded people think the media is in league with the Democrats and actively trying to help Obama by squelching some stories and promoting others? For a year and a half now, all I've heard is that "they" won't report on Benghazi but now that they did, it's a designed distraction. Why would "they" do this (cover for the administration and intentionally distract from other stories)? This has never made any sense to me. That the media is in league with the Democrats and intentionally runs stories designed to help any Democratic President and their administration.
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Jan 1, 2014 01:14
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Halloween Jack posted:So about those moon landing conspiracies; do most of those people just believe that the original moon landing was faked, or that the moon is impossible to reach and the very idea is preposterous? Do they believe in satellite communications? Which is not too far-fetched when you consider that NASA was basically a military-funded technology-development effort with a civilian veneer so we could pretend it wasn't an escalation.
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Jan 1, 2014 01:17
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BiggerBoat posted:Does "liberal media" count as a conspiracy? I think that would generally fall under propaganda campaigns and generic stupidity rather than the potential mental illness that is conspiracy thinking.
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Jan 1, 2014 08:56
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Yeah liberal media is less about "Reptilian Zionist Masons are trying to pull the strings of world governments" and more of a generic Conservative view point of "anyone who isn't a total neo-con is in bed with Joseph Stalin, known Liberal"
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Jan 1, 2014 15:40
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Sadly, since being exposed to the internet for the last decade, my mother has fallen in with all this conspiracy crap. Can't convince her in any way that the 9/11 theories are all bunk. Doesn't matter what you show her, it's ultimately "well, the government was behind it." Why hasn't anyone involved in it come out and admitted it? "Oh, they've all been paid off" or "Some have tried to, but then they were killed before they could". It's odd, she'll read the most outrageous stuff and believe it, but if you show her evidence debunking it, then those are the people who are lying. Can't trust scientists or doctors, but you can trust a guy with a website called "What Really Happened." I mean, it's called "What Really Happened" so it must be true! A person with a website called "What Really Happened" would never mislead anyone. One time his website was down, and she was fearing that the government had gotten to him and had shut down his website to prevent him from telling the truth. She's always arguing with my sister about my sister having her son vaccinated. My sister and her husband have him vaccinated, but my mother's read on the internet that vaccines are nothing but poisons that will kill him. She thinks my sister should play it safe and not have him vaccinated. I point out that my sister and I were duly vaccinated, and she replied that if "she knew then what she knows know, she wouldn't have had us vaccinated." I found her reading Andrew Wakefield's book, and tried to point out to her that his work had been discredited (and that he had, in fact, basically faked it), and nope, she still believes him. It's a conspiracy against him to keep the truth from getting out. She once tried to convince that the Holocaust didn't happen, and try to prove it to me with an article she had read. The damning proof in the article? The author stated "I had spoke to a professor in Germany, and he told me 'Oh we know that the Holocaust didn't happen'." That was it. All the evidence that has been gathered about it for the last seventy or so years had to be fake, because "some guy" said it didn't happen. Also, did you know food companies put poison in all our food? Why do they do that? I can't really get a clear explanation for it, but they totally do! They said so on Natural News. Joseph Mercola is not a quack, and you need to by your medicine from him, because medicine made by Big Pharma is nothing but poison! Chemtrails are true. There's a youtube video that proves it. Her sisters fall for this stuff too. One aunt is worried because she read about something called "dirty electricity", which infests your home when you don't have your power on and can give you cancer.
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Jan 2, 2014 00:50
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Davros1 posted:
Monster was trying to save us all along! The audiophile community has a snake oil problem as insane as any conspiracy crowd. wheez the roux fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 01:29
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