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Eckertmania posted:It's Kyle, and it was the only part of Countdown that I enjoyed. You mean you didn't like Swole Dog jumping at (and murdering) one of the Triplicate Girls with a knife?
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Jan 2, 2014 22:02
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Eckertmania posted:It's Kyle, and it was the only part of Countdown that I enjoyed.
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Jan 2, 2014 22:07
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Endless Mike posted:If you didn't enjoy Superman Prime, you have no soul. Eh, it wasn't edgy enough. "Hahahaha you nerds look at how irrational and dumb this character is hahahahahaha. We're gonna put him into a basement with his parents and have him complain on internet forums hahahahahahaha." It didn't feel all that biting, just cliched.
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Jan 2, 2014 22:14
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Hang on, now maybe I missed some stuff. (I did really hate Final Crisis) but I thought one of the things about Mary Marvel was she was supposed to be a commentary on the modern medias sexualised portrayal/ image of teen girls. In particular the shaved head look was supposed to be referencing Britney Spears. (Which even during the 2008 Final Crisis would have been a dated reference. But that's Grant Morrison for you, his knowledge/ understanding of modern culture after 90's rave culture, is that of someone who has had it explained to them, instead of experiencing it.) I took Mary Marvel versus Supergirl as some sort of really creepy "don't worry. Teenager over sexualised and looking for attention girl is defeated by someone who represents a chaste and sexless ideal of teenage girls."
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Jan 2, 2014 22:33
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That's Superboy-Prime. Superman-Prime was during that period where they couldn't use Superboy because of the lawsuit (IIRC) so they aged SBP up and he destroyed worlds in Countdown while screaming about how he'd "kill you to death".
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Jan 2, 2014 22:33
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Suben posted:That's Superboy-Prime. Superman-Prime was during that period where they couldn't use Superboy because of the lawsuit (IIRC) so they aged SBP up and he destroyed worlds in Countdown while screaming about how he'd "kill you to death".
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Jan 2, 2014 22:57
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The Question IRL posted:Hang on, now maybe I missed some stuff. (I did really hate Final Crisis) but I thought one of the things about Mary Marvel was she was supposed to be a commentary on the modern medias sexualised portrayal/ image of teen girls. In particular the shaved head look was supposed to be referencing Britney Spears. You should probably read it again, but you also didn't like Seven Soldiers so you might want to not bother if that's how you look at Morrison.
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Jan 2, 2014 22:58
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d00gZ posted:Yeah, Mary Marvel was 100% intentional. Also kind of amazing that Morrison put in a plot to comment on a dumb plotline other people had set up in the retroactive prelude they hired other people to make to his series. For some reason I had thought that it was Morrison that came up with Evil Mary Marvel, but I suppose it'd make more sense if it came about because of Countdown. Remember how Evil Mary Marvel returned to good, and then abruptly turned evil again towards the end of the story?
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Jan 2, 2014 23:08
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FoneBone posted:For some reason I had thought that it was Morrison that came up with Evil Mary Marvel, but I suppose it'd make more sense if it came about because of Countdown. Remember how Evil Mary Marvel returned to good, and then abruptly turned evil again towards the end of the story? It is a pointless task trying to make sense of Countdown. It only leads to madness or control of DC Comics.
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Jan 2, 2014 23:14
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FoneBone posted:For some reason I had thought that it was Morrison that came up with Evil Mary Marvel, but I suppose it'd make more sense if it came about because of Countdown. Remember how Evil Mary Marvel returned to good, and then abruptly turned evil again towards the end of the story? That happened to pretty much all the arcs on Countdown, my guess is than the writers only knew the general outline of FC and started building to what they thought would be the Status Quo on FC. Once than they realized Morrison would be doing his own thing they sloppily pedaled back on the developments. Yeah, I'm still bitter about Jason losing the Red Robin persona to Tim because of Damian 
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Jan 2, 2014 23:19
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:
I'm bitter Tim arbitrarily had the Red added to his name and got a terrible costume. Jason works better as the Red Hood anyway.
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Jan 2, 2014 23:31
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bobkatt013 posted:It is a pointless task trying to make sense of Countdown. It only leads to madness or control of DC Comics.
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Jan 2, 2014 23:36
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:That happened to pretty much all the arcs on Countdown, my guess is than the writers only knew the general outline of FC and started building to what they thought would be the Status Quo on FC. Once than they realized Morrison would be doing his own thing they sloppily pedaled back on the developments. The way I've always heard it is that they were not only working from a vague outline of Morrison's ideas but from an outdated outline at that because Morrison basically kept his actual plans very close to the vest (which is, imo, kind of a lovely thing to do if you're working on the tentpole event comic of a shared universe but whatever).
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Jan 3, 2014 00:23
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Considering how 52 and the fallout thereafter played out it's pretty understandable that Morrison was cagey about how things might happen with Final Crisis. Still a dick move, but a dick move in a hostile environment.
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Jan 3, 2014 00:25
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Oh sure, and that's not a defense of Countdown either since it would've been editorially driven crap full of half-assed ideas (Forerunner) even if they had Morrison's most up to date plans.
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Jan 3, 2014 00:29
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At the least the fact that there are 3 or more contradictory lead ins makes some sense with Darkseid's fall warping time and reality.
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Jan 3, 2014 02:15
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Suben posted:The way I've always heard it is that they were not only working from a vague outline of Morrison's ideas but from an outdated outline at that because Morrison basically kept his actual plans very close to the vest (which is, imo, kind of a lovely thing to do if you're working on the tentpole event comic of a shared universe but whatever). To go with that, from what I understand, the Mary Marvel thing was something created for Countdown with full intent to bring her back to normal by the end. Morrison kind of liked the Evil Mary Marvel idea and decided to include it into Final Crisis. Then they rewrote the ending of Countdown where she went evil again as a way to match up with it.
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Jan 3, 2014 07:05
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WickedHate posted:I'm bitter Tim arbitrarily had the Red added to his name and got a terrible costume. Jason works better as the Red Hood anyway. The whole "Super Heroes have only been around for 5 years" thing destroyed all of the Robins, in 5 years Batman has 4 Robins, one of which dies and is brought back to life as an adult. I don't normally care about the different ways comic characters age, because that way madness lies. But that's some sloppy loving storytelling, if you're going to reboot the whole thing they probably should have gotten rid of either Todd or Drake. (If I had my way Batman and Robin would still be Dick and Damien). Edit: Tim Drakes my favorite, but too many people like the idea of Robin being bludgeoned to death for there not to be a Jason Todd. Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 07:28
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Skwirl posted:(If I had my way Batman and Robin would still be Dick and Damien). Same but with Drake as Red Robin as a kind of back up helper working his own stuff out of the same house. Watching Alfred and the boys act like an actual family and trying to pick up the pieces after dad died was basically the best thing that has happened to Batman comics in like forever.
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Jan 3, 2014 09:12
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Skwirl posted:The whole "Super Heroes have only been around for 5 years" thing destroyed all of the Robins, in 5 years Batman has 4 Robins, one of which dies and is brought back to life as an adult. I don't normally care about the different ways comic characters age, because that way madness lies. But that's some sloppy loving storytelling, if you're going to reboot the whole thing they probably should have gotten rid of either Todd or Drake. (If I had my way Batman and Robin would still be Dick and Damien). Wasn't the point of the "5 years" thing that it was superheroes are public for X number of years but Batman has been around doing his poo poo for years before that anyway.
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Jan 3, 2014 09:31
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I liked the Trickster/Pied Piper stuff in Countdown. Could have done without...pretty much everything else.
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Jan 3, 2014 09:38
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Opopanax posted:At the least the fact that there are 3 or more contradictory lead ins makes some sense with Darkseid's fall warping time and reality. Which, ironically, was a retcon Morrison pulled out at an SDCC panel that year. Someone asked how the hell Death of the New Gods/Countdown/something else even added up at all with them showing directly-contradicting versions of the same scenes, and Morrison just grabs a mic and gives that example. Then Dan Didio hugged him and said "I love this man!".
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Jan 3, 2014 12:15
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I was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly so, that Mary Marvel's role in Final Crisis was always as depicted in the final book and her storyline in Countdown was another aspect like the 'war in heaven' where Morrison wanted the idea to be sudden and shocking and not told in Final Crisis but DC decided to do a pre-amble anyway.
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Jan 3, 2014 13:44
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Waterhaul posted:Wasn't the point of the "5 years" thing that it was superheroes are public for X number of years but Batman has been around doing his poo poo for years before that anyway. Yeah, I'm pretty sure "5 years" was supposed to be Action #1 when Superman starts making his public appearances.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:06
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I'm ignoring all the caption boxes saying 'x years ago' since doesn't made any sense. I'm blaming Snyder for this since he was the first to start the bullshit with the annual saying than Freeze's accident happened seven years ago, just a month after Bruce's return.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:13
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Waterhaul posted:Wasn't the point of the "5 years" thing that it was superheroes are public for X number of years but Batman has been around doing his poo poo for years before that anyway.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:14
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I can't reread Final Crisis or Seven Soldiers these days because I really bought into the new DC universe Morrison was building, with self-aware weirdness and genuine heroism - and it's clear from the nu52 on that they've gone in a totally different direction, shooting for faux-edginess and half-baked moral complexity, with characters who can't really support it.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:57
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redbackground posted:I thought that was just The Internet trying to explain Nu52 Batman's already overflowing contact list after such a short period of time. My memory is terrible, but Snyder's Batman wasn't around like 10 years ago, DC-time, correct? (I honestly can't recall how long ago Zero year is taking place.) Actually looking it up it's the Justice League is formed 5 years ago but everybody has been off heroing and poo poo for a while and Batman has been an urban legend/"masked vigilante" before this point than a real public hero. Waterhaul fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 20:07
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Gavok posted:To go with that, from what I understand, the Mary Marvel thing was something created for Countdown with full intent to bring her back to normal by the end. Morrison kind of liked the Evil Mary Marvel idea and decided to include it into Final Crisis. Then they rewrote the ending of Countdown where she went evil again as a way to match up with it. Although the way Mary Marvel went evil, either time, in Countdown doesn't really match up at all with how she's depicted in Final Crisis, but then, that's Countdown for you.
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Jan 3, 2014 20:46
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Waterhaul posted:Actually looking it up it's the Justice League is formed 5 years ago but everybody has been off heroing and poo poo for a while and Batman has been an urban legend/"masked vigilante" before this point than a real public hero. Superman was already in his armor by then, how long before that did he start Supermanning in the jeans?
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Jan 3, 2014 20:50
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The public for 5 years thing doesn't work anymore, because Year Zero in Batman takes place "five years ago."
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Jan 3, 2014 22:35
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TheJoker138 posted:The public for 5 years thing doesn't work anymore, because Year Zero in Batman takes place "five years ago." Wow, Snyder and the editors are loving idiots then since that puts Zero Year on the same year of the JL's foundation.
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Jan 3, 2014 22:51
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I really wish there was a JLU Question type of character trying to make sense of all this in-universe for the Nu52.
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Jan 3, 2014 23:02
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This is why I like that modern Marvel almost never tries to nail down timelines
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Jan 3, 2014 23:10
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Skwirl posted:This is why I like that modern Marvel almost never tries to nail down timelines Yeah they're just like "poo poo's hosed yo. Ignore it and it's still awesome though."
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Jan 3, 2014 23:15
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Do events count as "runs" because if so can someone explain to me what the hell was up with Fear Itself? Like what was the reaction to it and what were they trying to do with it? I stopped reading comics as a whole after Siege (just didn't like the sound of the "Heroic age", making Baron Zemo a villain again after his 10 year long slow redemption left a bad taste in my mouth and also my local shop closed) but I just borrowed all of Fear Itself and it seems like it would have been a complete clusterfuck, especially if you just read the event book itself. Age of Ultron and Avengers Vs X-men didn't sound great either but not this bad.
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Jan 3, 2014 23:19
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Fear Itself was a Thor/ Cap crossover that got ballooned hideously by editorial.
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Jan 3, 2014 23:32
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Dan Didio posted:I was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly so, that Mary Marvel's role in Final Crisis was always as depicted in the final book and her storyline in Countdown was another aspect like the 'war in heaven' where Morrison wanted the idea to be sudden and shocking and not told in Final Crisis but DC decided to do a pre-amble anyway. I buy the "I changed it because it seemed interesting" thing just because I've always assumed that the stuff from the Final Crisis Sketchbook they put out before the main story was the framework Countdown might have been built off of? It's got so many ideas and plots that never made it into the final, and one of those was that we were going to see an on-panel Desaad as perverted torturer, but in the final thing, he is instead possessing Mary Marvel (who, from memory, since I can't find the drat issue - was not in said sketchbook)
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Jan 3, 2014 23:52
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TheJoker138 posted:The public for 5 years thing doesn't work anymore, because Year Zero in Batman takes place "five years ago."  and that was a flash forward.Mimir posted:Superman was already in his armor by then, how long before that did he start Supermanning in the jeans? He was jeaning in his Zero Year tie-in, so about as long as Bruce. I think Morrison's Action was supposed to start about six or eight months before JL #1. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jan 4, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 23:54
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Madkal posted:I really wish there was a JLU Question type of character trying to make sense of all this in-universe for the Nu52. Well the Question could do this if he was anything like the Question anyone actually likes but instead he's stuck as Some Dude A Wizard Cursed and can't be tasked to do anything at all. Maybe those guys who's job it is to figure out and protect the timeline, Booster Gold and his sister and Future Son could handle it? Wait no, he gave up his memories so the Writers could revert him back to the Pre-Ted boring unfunny Booster.
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Jan 4, 2014 02:55
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