|
Geostomp posted:As opposed to a random little boy you knew for a minute? One who obviously existed to be killed in the most melodramatic manner possible? Well, he was the only child in the known Mass Effect universe
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 02:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 11:11 |
|
|
It's unrealistic to expect them to have planned out an ending years in advance, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to have one in mind midway through the development of the third game in the trilogy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 02:55
|
|
|
They did, but they ditched it for something else.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 03:33
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:They did, but they ditched it for something else. I've read about that but never seen it. Do you know what it is or where I could find it?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 04:04
|
|
|
And we don't have any reason to believe that ending would've been great. I think that the issue was simply that Walters and Hudson thought their ending was awesome and most of the fans disagreed, and I just don't have any compelling reason to believe that them planning the ending earlier would've changed that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 04:05
|
|
|
Lycus posted:And we don't have any reason to believe that ending would've been great. I think that the issue was simply that Walters and Hudson thought their ending was awesome and most of the fans disagreed, and I just don't have any compelling reason to believe that them planning the ending earlier would've changed that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 04:09
|
|
|
Drew Karpyshyn isn't a great scribe or anything, but I kind of want to see what ME2 and 3 look like in the universe where he stayed on the Mass Effect series. Hopefully it's also the universe where Mac Walters is a fedora salesman.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 05:24
|
|
|
DrNutt posted:Drew Karpyshyn isn't a great scribe or anything, but I kind of want to see what ME2 and 3 look like in the universe where he stayed on the Mass Effect series. Hopefully it's also the universe where Mac Walters is a fedora salesman. Nah, you can let Mac write individual characters. He's not bad at that if it's his focus. Maybe go back in time and promote Patrick Weekes or Jon Dombrow to head writer instead of Mac.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 05:32
|
|
|
Geostomp posted:As opposed to a random little boy you knew for a minute? One who obviously existed to be killed in the most melodramatic manner possible? My problem with that scene wasn't that it occurred - its that you had no input on the reaction of your character. Ok paragon Shep is horrified at the tragic loss of innocent life, that's fine. But would renegade serial killer Shep really have nightmares over that one kid? I'm thinking perhaps not. Doesn't matter what you think though since you don't get to even press a different mouse button to maintain the illusion of choice.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 08:28
|
|
|
Full Renegade Shep in 3 would have blown up that escape ship him/herself given the opportunity, considering how more and more flat out evil the renegade options become as the series progresses.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 08:32
|
|
|
DancingShade posted:My problem with that scene wasn't that it occurred - its that you had no input on the reaction of your character. Ok paragon Shep is horrified at the tragic loss of innocent life, that's fine. But would renegade serial killer Shep really have nightmares over that one kid? I'm thinking perhaps not. Because the entire reason and justification for why a Renegade Shep exists is that they protect the galaxy and the human race, the kid, functioning as a stand-in for Earth and thus a large part of the Human race, has pretty much exposed Renegade Shep as powerless and all the horrific acts commited by them as meaningless. If anything, that scene should have had a more pronounced effect on a Renegade Shep over the course of the game. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Jan 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 08:37
|
|
|
Lycus posted:I think that the issue was simply that Walters and Hudson thought their ending was awesome and most of the fans disagreed, and I just don't have any compelling reason to believe that them planning the ending earlier would've changed that. The quote below is a blatant lie, yet Bioware stuck with it and kept repeating the same thing pretty much until release. I don't think it's fair to say people simply disagree about the ending when it ended up being exactly what they said it wouldn't be, even once they had to know it's nothing like what they promised. It is possible they changed their mind at the last minute but they didn't change their PR to reflect it. I think people wouldn't make that much of a deal of a bad ending if Bioware didn't make it into a big deal to begin with and focus on it so much in their advertising. Casey Hudson posted:At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 09:05
|
|
|
I'm wondering how much the critical response to The Witcher 3 will be influenced by the reaction to Mass Effect. (And when I say 'critical response,' I don't mean the one from "Games Journalism.") CDProjekt's angle hasn't been as much "Your Choices Matter" as it's been "There Are No Right Choices," which might help. There wasn't much anger at the second game ignoring a few choices in the first (I.E. who you "romanced"), but I can't help but think that a lot of that was A: fewer people knowing about The Witcher and B: far fewer people having ever finished the first game. (It's still PC-only and it's still something you struggle through for the good parts, whereas ME1 stood on its own as a high-profile release and still works, even if it feels boring next to ME2.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 10:35
|
|
|
Avalerion posted:The quote below is a blatant lie, yet Bioware stuck with it and kept repeating the same thing pretty much until release. I don't think it's fair to say people simply disagree about the ending when it ended up being exactly what they said it wouldn't be, even once they had to know it's nothing like what they promised. It is possible they changed their mind at the last minute but they didn't change their PR to reflect it. I think people wouldn't make that much of a deal of a bad ending if Bioware didn't make it into a big deal to begin with and focus on it so much in their advertising. Hmm yes the PR wasn't honest and this is a thing that sets Mass Effect 3 apart from other games because
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 10:45
|
|
|
Cheston posted:I'm wondering how much the critical response to The Witcher 3 will be influenced by the reaction to Mass Effect. (And when I say 'critical response,' I don't mean the one from "Games Journalism.") CDProjekt's angle hasn't been as much "Your Choices Matter" as it's been "There Are No Right Choices," which might help. Lycus fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Jan 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 11:09
|
|
|
Uhhh. So I just finished Mars and was wondering around my ship only to find Javik on it. ...I have not done his DLC, nor do I see the mission for it in my journal. Has anyone seen this before? Did I just automagically complete his DLC and acquire him haha? PC if it matters. E: Wait, he is Eden Prime? ...It says I completed that lol. I guess I'll just move on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 17:17
|
|
|
So I finally got around to replaying this with all of the important DLC, and I'm not going to lie, the Citadel DLC almost made up for the original ending. Probably one of the greatest DLC's of any thing I've ever played, and that includes F:NVs DLC.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 17:38
|
|
|
SOrry if this has been brought up, but I'm playing the Leviathan DLC on the PC and it always crashes at the same point. I get to the mining colony, fix and elevator with a drone, and as soon as I go to the next floor and the door opens the game crashes. I've hosed with drivers, graphics options, repairing installs for the main game and DLCs, changing squad members, everything I can think of. I'm reinstalling the whole game now and if that doesn't work then I'm boned. Has anyone found this before and can anyone give me some advice here?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
SSJ Reeko posted:SOrry if this has been brought up, but I'm playing the Leviathan DLC on the PC and it always crashes at the same point. I get to the mining colony, fix and elevator with a drone, and as soon as I go to the next floor and the door opens the game crashes. I've hosed with drivers, graphics options, repairing installs for the main game and DLCs, changing squad members, everything I can think of. I'm reinstalling the whole game now and if that doesn't work then I'm boned. Has anyone found this before and can anyone give me some advice here? I've never encountered this issue before myself. A crash in the same place that consistent usually means that a file or asset cannot be read/used/accessed/found. IF reinstalling doesn't work, then you may want to try installing outside of the Program Files directory. If you're already doing that, then I don't really have any other advice aside from checking Bioware's official support forum.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 18:59
|
|
|
Malderi posted:I've read about that but never seen it. Do you know what it is or where I could find it? Organic life's use of mass effect technology was creating dark energy that would hasten the death of the universe. You had to choose between the Reapers prolonging the life of the universe or the right of organic civilizations to exist. Completely lovely, fundamentally boring, arguably as bad as what we got. It was an awful episode of TNG and it would've been an awful ending for Mass Effect. Drew Karpyshyn wouldn't have saved this series and his novels make it clear he's not a particularly gifted writer.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
Lycus posted:Witcher 2 also took a completely different tact with choices. The import doesn't matter much at all, but the choices you make in Witcher 2 make big differences internally to the game, both in storyline and gameplay. In contrast, whether or not you kill the Rachni Queen or shoot Wrex, the basic storyline stays the same, and you play all the same missions on every playthrough, just the cutscenes change a bit. Personally, I think Witcher's way is a better way to go about it, and I would have no problem if that's how they handle Witcher 3. What really hurt Bioware is at some point they decided that your choices shouldn't lock you out of content. I don't know if it was an EA mandate or if Bioware themselves made that dumb decision. Unlike the ending thing though, they didn't lie about it, I remember interviews where they stated that was a goal for them. What a stupid loving idea when you want to have choice matter.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 19:02
|
|
|
DrNutt posted:Hmm yes the PR wasn't honest and this is a thing that sets Mass Effect 3 apart from other games because And we certainly shouldn't give them poo poo for it, since everyone else did it too because
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 19:02
|
|
|
I can understand not wanting to make the game reliant on the previous games- you don't want to shut off new players, since your goal is 'make money', not 'make the LotR of games'- but but there should have been ways to intrduce the new players to old events. Maybe Shep has a nightmare about Virmire.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 20:22
|
|
|
I think those comic book DLC's were sufficient, but IIRC none of them came out in time for the launches of ME2 and ME3.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 20:33
|
|
|
DancingShade posted:My problem with that scene wasn't that it occurred - its that you had no input on the reaction of your character. Ok paragon Shep is horrified at the tragic loss of innocent life, that's fine. But would renegade serial killer Shep really have nightmares over that one kid? I'm thinking perhaps not. My problem was that Shepard had a lot more potentially scarring events in his/her life up to this point that would have been much better sources of pathos. Especially after being forced to commit genocide to slow the Reapers down in the last ME2 DLC. But no, all of that is glossed over in favor of wheeling out the lowest common denominator of killing a child. One who shows up repeatedly in the most hamfisted scenes in the game just in case we didn't quite get the message from the incredibly cheesiness of the first scene. The fact that he was the only child to ever exist in this series just makes it more obvious. I like the idea of all the pressure finally catching up to Shepard, but I object to the extremely blatant, cynical attempts at emotional manipulation. If they'd gone somewhere clever with these scenes, I might forgive, but they just jump on the most cliche, utterly pretentious options possible. I get that they wanted something "universal" so even complete newbies would go along with it (a misguided effort, but understandable), but they could have put so much more effort into it. These kind of scenes cheapen what emotional investments the series already had built up and are insulting to the viewer's intelligence. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jan 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 20:42
|
|
|
I, for one, would feel incredible pathos if Shepard saw a volus being herded into a dropship which was then shot down. RIP, volus.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 21:11
|
|
|
Bogart posted:I, for one, would feel incredible pathos if Shepard saw a volus being herded into a dropship which was then shot down. RIP, volus. I am sad just imagining it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 21:15
|
|
|
Bogart posted:I, for one, would feel incredible pathos if Shepard saw a volus being herded into a dropship which was then shot down. RIP, volus. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 21:19
|
|
|
The only way that child works for the story is if you buy the Shepherd is getting indoctrinated theory. But that's obviously not what they went for. e: Considering all the time Shepherd spends around Reapers and Reaper tech throughout the series it's kinda unbelievable from a lore standpoint that he doesn't start to feel the effects of indoctrination by Me3.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 23:06
|
|
|
The child would "work" in the sense that it represents his implied guilt that he's busy riding around in the swankest ship in the galaxy, and chatting up diplomats, instead of sweating it out on Earth with the rest of his species. Like, yeah, killing a kid is the bluntest possible way to put it, but I really don't think their intent was to communicate, literally, "Shep is sad because a child died". Shep's distaste for politics, and his/her desire to be fighting it out on Earth is something more-or-less explicitly stated several times in ME3. The problems were that a) killing a kid is really blunt, and b) gamers are sort of bad at subtext.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 23:20
|
|
|
I think ultimately I just liked reapers more in ME1 & 2 where they were basically portrayed as enigmatic gods who altered reality, instead of the "lol dumb tripod harvester robot" we got in ME3.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 23:29
|
|
|
Fag Boy Jim posted:The child would "work" in the sense that it represents his implied guilt that he's busy riding around in the swankest ship in the galaxy, and chatting up diplomats, instead of sweating it out on Earth with the rest of his species. This was the feeling I got from ME3 as well. It was never about the child itself, but it was the last thing he saw as Shepard is leaving Earth. He's practically experiencing PTSD by later in the game, and the child exploding was really a symbol guilt/hopelessness that pervades the entire game. Of all the things that one could argue went wrong, I don't thing the child is one of them. Nor do I think the child being the catalyst is dumb, since clearly the catalyst is taking the form most imprinted in Shep's mind at that time, similar to the ending of Contact. Anyone who says "y u get mad at exploding boy you never knew shep?" isn't really getting the metaphor for what it is.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 23:38
|
|
|
I mean, the nice thing about the concept is that it makes sense- in fact, the weird disconnect between the idea that the entire galaxy was under attack, and billions were dying to the Reaper attacks, and me enjoying life, and chatting up Garrus on my sweet-rear end sleek spaceship was definitely something I noticed as the game went on, and I thought it was actually nice that the game actually addressed this indirectly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 23:41
|
|
|
The biggest issue with having the child represent hopelessness is that at no point in the game is it hopeless(well, until the catalyst, but  ). I mean, at one point you're 1 on 1 with a reaper. Didn't feel particularly hopeless. The entire early and mid section of the game is about hope. It never actually gets so bad that it feels hopeless. You pretty much always succeed and when you don't, it's not reapers, it's god drat Kai Leng popping up like a loony tunes villain. In a better game, with a more coherent story, the child metaphor would be decent, but ME3 isn't that game and it just feels tacky instead of deep.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2014 00:41
|
|
|
Fag Boy Jim posted:The child would "work" in the sense that it represents his implied guilt that he's busy riding around in the swankest ship in the galaxy, and chatting up diplomats, instead of sweating it out on Earth with the rest of his species. Just make it the dead squadmates dammit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2014 00:53
|
|
|
I don't really like the child either, but there are advantages to that choice. Alongside what others have said, there's the reference to 2001, and, as bad as it may seem now, the infodump/implicit demand for Shepard to resolve the crisis probably comes better from a child than from an overt authority figure.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2014 00:57
|
|
|
Rampant Dwickery posted:Just make it the dead squadmates dammit. Making it the dead squadmates would be saying something different- regret over a specific past action on Virmire, rather than his regret that Earth is burning up while he isn't. Besides, the dead squadmates do sort of show up in the dream sequences.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2014 00:58
|
|
|
Speaking of Arrival, the genocide in Arrival should be something that definitely affects Shepard in a huge way, and it should even be referenced OFTEN in ME3 (beyond the initial imprisonment and WELP UR FREE 2 GO), but.. The Batarian race is the wrong one for the genocide. I've always had trouble summoning any sympathy for the Batarian race. They seem to be the go-to disreputable race, but come on. Slavers and pirates? Batarian. Most of the Blue Suns? Batarians. That bar tender who tries to poison you? Batarian. So when I'm told I have to destroy a relay to halt or severely delay a Reaper invasion at the cost of 300k in a Batarian system, I don't have to think about it at all. Also the whole idea about ramming an asteroid into a relay and watching the ensuing explosion is awesome, but still. No sympathy from me at all. It should have been a human system.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2014 01:19
|
|
|
Arrival's story wouldn't have really worked in a human system. Instead of that, it probably would've been better to not make the entirety of the Batarian race so unsympathetic.
Lycus fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jan 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2014 01:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 11:11 |
|
|
Lycus posted:Instead of that, it probably would've been better to not make the entirety of the Batarian race so unsympathetic. That one guy you gank in the back in Archangel's recruitment seemed p. decent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2014 01:25
|
|