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On technical grounds, it's probably the Tombstone Piledriver, but you'd be safer letting the Undertaker give you a Tombstone than you would letting a lot of people give you an armdrag.
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Jan 3, 2014 18:50
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Which All Japan tag title is traditionally more important, the All Asia titles or the AJPW titles?
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Jan 3, 2014 18:54
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What are some cases where someone is accidentally legit KO'd by a move?
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Jan 3, 2014 19:04
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Bigass Moth posted:Which All Japan tag title is traditionally more important, the All Asia titles or the AJPW titles? The All Japan titles.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:07
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CopywrightMMXI posted:Quick question - did Ahmed Johnson ever have vignettes prior to his debut? I don't reacall ever seeing anything about him prior to his debut. I recall one or two talking head interview videos of him talking about himself, maybe on WWF Mania. He was making his televised in-ring debut at Survivor Series for the Wild Card Match, so they'd regularly talk about him as this mysterious big deal. I remember Doc Hendrix losing his poo poo while describing how jacked he is, having seen him in person before the viewers ever got a good look at him. Then I think his first true appearance was in a post-match brawl where he showed up and bodyslammed Yokozuna in a way that made Luger's bodyslam look like poo poo. Not that it didn't already.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:08
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Pope Corky the IX posted:He was only around for a few months in 1991 before leaving. I don't think he even had a PPV match, as he was supposed to be part of a team at Survivor Series '91, left before the actual event and was replaced by someone else. A shame, too. It seems like such a perfect gimmick for someone with a brawler style.  Imagine if he could work like Hansen or Finlay. Holy poo poo, that would've been awesome. (Edit: Dang. I was way off thinking he appeared in '95 or so. The '95 Rumble was full of so many jobber gimmicks, I guess I lumped him in with that crowd.)
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Jan 3, 2014 19:25
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Wojtek posted:What are some cases where someone is accidentally legit KO'd by a move? I seem to remember Samoa Joe concussing KENTA with his very first move (a slap) in a threeway versus Danielson in ROH. Though it's been a long time since I watched it, so I might just have been worked by the commentators.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:29
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Wojtek posted:What are some cases where someone is accidentally legit KO'd by a move? Goldberg did this to himself in a match against Kronik iirc, he ran into a ring post and was out on his feet. Little luck youtubing it at the moment. Ted DeBiase almost gets knocked out with a slap (bonus Orton hurting himself doing a taunt) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuYCsax1mFc
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Jan 3, 2014 19:32
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Wojtek posted:What are some cases where someone is accidentally legit KO'd by a move? The first DDT which was a botched front facelock being done by Jake Roberts when he tripped might have KO'd his opponent but am not 100%
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Jan 3, 2014 19:34
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Supreme Allah posted:Goldberg did this to himself in a match against Kronik iirc, he ran into a ring post and was out on his feet. Little luck youtubing it at the moment. Goldberg KO'd himself against DDP too, because he speared DDP, overextended and basically DDTed himself.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:35
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Supreme Allah posted:Goldberg did this to himself in a match against Kronik iirc, he ran into a ring post and was out on his feet. Little luck youtubing it at the moment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KCjg118gwk?
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Jan 3, 2014 19:36
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Slavik posted:The first DDT which was a botched front facelock being done by Jake Roberts when he tripped might have KO'd his opponent but am not 100% Cena accidentally put Edge out for a few seconds with the STFU, which is why he plays it so safe now that it doesn't even look like a stranglehold now. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 19:45
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Billy Kidman kills Chavo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-mxHiZRMfI
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Jan 3, 2014 19:47
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Have there really been any sigificant injuries due to a botched Tombstone or other kneeling piledrivers? Seems like the safest variant.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:48
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Wojtek posted:What are some cases where someone is accidentally legit KO'd by a move? Paul London got knocked out by a botched double stomp from Davey Richards during London's ROH return match last year. Just a couple months ago in NJPW Tetsuya Naito got knocked out after a table spot in a Masato Tanaka match.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:51
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Thauros posted:Have there really been any sigificant injuries due to a botched Tombstone or other kneeling piledrivers? Seems like the safest variant. Undertaker knocked Triple H silly for a minute when he returned at Judgement Day in 2000. That was the only botch I know of involving Undertaker.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:52
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Janet Boyer Wolfe, born 1933, died 1951, age 18. In-ring death; head trauma. Oro, born 1971, died1993, age 21. In-ring death; spinal injury. Daniel Quirk, born 1982, died 2005, age 22. In-ring death; head trauma. Emiko Kado, born 1976, died 1999, age 23. In-ring death; head trauma. Masakazu Fukuda, born 1972, died 2000, age 27. In-ring death; head trauma. Mariko Umeda, born 1967, died 1997, age 30. In-ring death; head trauma. Michel Martel, born 1944, died1978, age 33. In-ring injury; unknown. Solitario, born 1946, died 1986, age 39. In-ring injury; internal bleeding leading to cardiac arrest. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 19:52
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Thauros posted:Paul London got knocked out by a botched double stomp from Davey Richards during London's ROH return match last year. Oh god, this was awful. Paul went into a fencing position and everything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYjpoUM_QZM
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Jan 3, 2014 19:58
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Thauros posted:Paul London got knocked out by a botched double stomp from Davey Richards during London's ROH return match last year. I was second row ringside on the side of the ring where this happened... it was quite the thing to see.
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Jan 3, 2014 20:08
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Kofi knocking Miz stupid(er) with Trouble in Paradise comes to mind.
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Jan 3, 2014 20:24
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PUNKS DIET SODA posted:Oh god, this was awful. Paul went into a fencing position and everything. triplexpac posted:I was second row ringside on the side of the ring where this happened... it was quite the thing to see. The clip cuts off, but Davey pretty clearly is more interested in London's well being than the match. What happened after this?
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Jan 3, 2014 20:26
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Red posted:The clip cuts off, but Davey pretty clearly is more interested in London's well being than the match. What happened after this? They continued the match for about five more minutes after London got back up. He was out of it, but managed to keep going.
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Jan 3, 2014 20:28
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SAVE_US.CHR
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Wojtek posted:What are some cases where someone is accidentally legit KO'd by a move?
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Jan 3, 2014 20:35
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ChampRamp posted:They continued the match for about five more minutes after London got back up. He was out of it, but managed to keep going. He did the 450 but Davey got his legs up to block it. Paul was still concussed so his aim was off and he landed face first into Davey's knees. I think this was the finish.
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Jan 3, 2014 21:17
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Endorph posted:Not sure about 'legit KO', but in Jericho's book he mentions giving D-Von Dudley a bump off the ladder that knocked him so loopy that Jericho had to literally explain to him the concept of a ladder and how to climb up one. He also talks about how he later had to explain to Bubba that Bubba's dead mom wasn't in attendance.
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Jan 3, 2014 21:21
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Wojtek posted:What are some cases where someone is accidentally legit KO'd by a move? Here's Low Ki being Low Ki by knocking out his opponent, not checking on him while he does his angry gorilla shtick, and then calling everyone else in the building a scrub in a promo afterwards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-xoN6Kx1VI
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Jan 3, 2014 22:23
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My favorite unintentional pro-wrestling KO comes from MMA. Pro-wrestler Nobuhiko Takada (better known now for wearing awesome military outfits in HUSTLE) was one of the biggest stars in JMMA's early days, with the slight problem that he was a loving terrible fighter who only won three fights in an eleven-fight career, all of which were works. His retirement fight was set against Kiyoshi Tamura, one of his best students who inexplicably was also a legitimately decent fighter, and while Takada was probably intending to lose the fight was still supposed to go the distance as had his last two bullshit works with Cro-Cop and Mike Bernardo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbGAg_op3NY Instead, after a lot of sparring, leg kicks and a ballshot, Tamura reflexively one-punches Takada to death when Takada rushes at him headfirst with his hands out. Tamura's "oh, gently caress" reaction is priceless.
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Jan 3, 2014 22:24
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The Takada fights with Cro Cop and Bernardo were not works, and in both fights Takada refused to engaged for fear of his life. When Takada did works they were really obvious because he'd book himself to look like a serious ground fighter and then win with an improbable submission.
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Jan 3, 2014 22:28
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The way I heard, they were worked inasmuch as Takada agreed not to win so much as just not lose, and Bernardo and Cro-Cop were paid to not try to take him out.
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Jan 3, 2014 22:33
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Ghostpilot posted:I happened across a post that mentioned that WWF's gimmicks were particularly awful in 1995. May anyone be up to going over what some of those were? I saw this and started a big effortpost on my thoughts on 1995 WWF and I'll finish it if anyone wants to argue with me, but here goes: 1993 was the worst year of the WWF and much much worse than 1995.
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Jan 3, 2014 22:50
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I thought it was actually pretty okay until everything got Lex-centric in July. You had Shawn and Marty trading the IC title, 1-2-3 Kid beating Razor, Yokozuna as a Jim Duggan killing force.
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Jan 3, 2014 22:56
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Wojtek posted:What are some cases where someone is accidentally legit KO'd by a move? I'm not sure it was a KO, but Bas Rutten took a stiff puro leg kick and instinctively knocked the other guy loopy before realizing what had happened.
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Jan 3, 2014 22:57
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maxallen posted:1993 was the worst year of the WWF and much much worse than 1995.
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Jan 3, 2014 23:08
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PUNKS DIET SODA posted:Billy Kidman kills Chavo: Weirdly, this led to Kidman getting pushed, as I recall. There was like 6 weeks where he slowly turned heel and began threatening to cripple people with the SSP.
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Jan 3, 2014 23:09
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Another lovely thing about WWF circa 1993-1995 is the TV production itself. I can't even quite put my finger on what I hate about it, but it was so incredibly stale and cold feeling. Unexciting. Even if it was technically "better" than WCW's production at the time, I used to find WCW Saturday Night to be more exciting looking than a live Raw. It also didn't help that they taped 4 weeks of Raw at a time in tiny arenas. By week 4 you'd have a burnt out, tired crowd in a tiny lovely building, watching bad characters having bad matches, with dull TV production on top of all it.
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Jan 3, 2014 23:30
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Cromulent posted:Another lovely thing about WWF circa 1993-1995 is the TV production itself. I can't even quite put my finger on what I hate about it, but it was so incredibly stale and cold feeling. Unexciting. Even if it was technically "better" than WCW's production at the time, I used to find WCW Saturday Night to be more exciting looking than a live Raw. It also didn't help that they taped 4 weeks of Raw at a time in tiny arenas. By week 4 you'd have a burnt out, tired crowd in a tiny lovely building, watching bad characters having bad matches, with dull TV production on top of all it. I think a lot of it was instead of feeding storyline into Raw they'd do one plot point then just run it with Todd loving Pettengill harping over why you should buy the PPV instead of letting what happened every week on Raw convince you to buy the PPV.
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Jan 3, 2014 23:36
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In terms of accidental knockouts, I recall a match from Chikara of D'Lo Brown and Glacier vs. Colin Delaney and Vin Gerard, which was supposed to be a blowoff to that terrible King of Trios match, only this time they were smart enough to not want anything to do with Al Snow. In the opening moments, D'Lo destroyed Gerard with a stiff clothesline and D'Lo seemed to realize he went a little too hard on it because when the fans chanted, "ONE MORE TIME!" he rather nervously and cartoonishly shook his head. Gerard sat out a good chunk of the match due to being knocked out and when he got up, his face was busted open.
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Jan 3, 2014 23:48
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What wrestling autobiographies are worth reading? I've read Bret's, all of Foley's except for Countdown to Lockdown, and both of Jericho's. Of those I probably enjoyed Bret's the most - Foley and Jericho's first books were fun reads with a couple of odd moments, but their other books almost retroactively ruined those first books. Jericho's second book wasn't complete garbage (though he used the word 'froot' like fifty times), but Foley just got weirder and weirder until it legitimately felt like reading gamers.txt or something. I'm especially interested in Regal's book, is that any good?
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Jan 4, 2014 00:57
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Endorph posted:I'm especially interested in Regal's book, is that any good? Regal's is great, but it's also dark as gently caress and will seriously bum you out. Terry Funk's is pretty good too, if only because the dude has had the WEIRDEST life.
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Jan 4, 2014 01:01
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Skjorte posted:I seem to remember Samoa Joe concussing KENTA with his very first move (a slap) in a threeway versus Danielson in ROH. Though it's been a long time since I watched it, so I might just have been worked by the commentators. All three of them concussed each other in that match, actually Gaz-L posted:Weirdly, this led to Kidman getting pushed, as I recall. There was like 6 weeks where he slowly turned heel and began threatening to cripple people with the SSP. Well I guess in the WWE world it's weird since most good promoters would take that and push a guy as a killer. Maybe call him The Crippler or something weird. Cromulent posted:Another lovely thing about WWF circa 1993-1995 is the TV production itself. I can't even quite put my finger on what I hate about it, but it was so incredibly stale and cold feeling. Unexciting. Even if it was technically "better" than WCW's production at the time, I used to find WCW Saturday Night to be more exciting looking than a live Raw. It also didn't help that they taped 4 weeks of Raw at a time in tiny arenas. By week 4 you'd have a burnt out, tired crowd in a tiny lovely building, watching bad characters having bad matches, with dull TV production on top of all it. It continues until late 1997 or 1998. They never really bothered to update with the times, and the production as a result looked like poo poo. Obviously they had money issues and distractions, but that doesn't excuse poor execution. The 97 Rumble is what I usually point to as an easily accessible example, as the arena looks like poo poo due to bad lighting and camera work, and multiple eliminations are missed because of horrid direction.
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