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Popular Thug Drink posted:It's probably because they don't pray to Jesus every night. Prove me wrong, liberals. Maybe the radiation had a kind of homeopathic effect on the pacific seeing as how it's such a tiny dilution? *Sprints out of thread jumps in a car and burns rubber*
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Jan 3, 2014 20:27
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It's ok to be wrong or have temporary stupid ideas so long as you adjust based on actual information. Good work.
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Jan 3, 2014 20:32
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Baronjutter posted:I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that grazing land poses absolutely no actual health danger and in fact has lower levels of radiation than the natural background radiation in many parts of the world and the entire thing is political/paranoia. The Chernobyl disaster was "special" due to the fact that it released great amounts of Strontium-90 isotope instead of the (way more volatile) caesium-137. Since Strontium is a group two elements it mimics the characteristics of Calcium which means that if you ingest some, a portion of it will get absorbed by bones. Accumulation of Strontium weakens the bones in general, and radioactive isotopes of the element release beta radiation that, while weak, is enough to case bone cancer or, rarely, leukaemia. Those land restrictions were simply put in place to stop sheep and cows from eating Strontium-90 contaminated grass (due to rainwater "pooling" this heavy element) and producing Strontium-90 contaminated milk that would have been then consumed by humans. Keep in mind that humans drink exponentially more milk than other species so we were the only ones that could potentially develop health problems. Besides that there has been almost no other effect of the Chernobyl accident in the UK. I believe the same is true for other countries of similar distance from the accident site, but specific circumstances like wind might vary the outcome.
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Jan 3, 2014 21:33
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Grouchy Smurf posted:The Chernobyl disaster was "special" due to the fact that it released great amounts of Strontium-90 isotope instead of the (way more volatile) caesium-137. That's interesting to know. I remember there was something special about actual elements released which made Chernobyl much worse than any other nuclear incident. Which is another big issue with nuclear fears/dangers. Radiation is just the energy released, it's the actual physical material emitting the radiation you need to be worried about. Some dissolves/breaks down pretty harmlessly, or can be fairly easily cleaned up, while others can build-up in food chains and remain dangerous in the long term. But the same can be said for any dangerous material, specially heavy metals.
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Jan 3, 2014 22:21
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There was also that Chernobyl was in the middle of the Eurasian landmass, with prevailing winds blowing out over wide swathes of populated land to go with the massive amount of material released. While the prevailing winds around the plants in Japan go out to sea after going a bit up somewhat underpopulated coastlines, which were especially so because of devastation and evacuation in the wake of the tsunami - the minor explosions at the plants took place many hours after the tsunami hit.
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Jan 3, 2014 22:27
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Grouchy Smurf posted:Besides that there has been almost no other effect of the Chernobyl accident in the UK. I believe the same is true for other countries of similar distance from the accident site, but specific circumstances like wind might vary the outcome. Considering how red zones crop up in weird places, I'd say the verdict as to the extent of Fukushima's radiation is still out. On the other hand, pretending mass die-offs are a new thing and they're all to blame for an accident literally half the planet away, well, that's being rather alarmist.
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Jan 3, 2014 22:42
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Isn't Larry the guy who no longer posts in the UK thread because people there wouldn't stop ribbing him about aliens building the pyramids idiocy?
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Jan 3, 2014 23:38
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Radio Prune posted:Isn't Larry the guy who no longer posts in the UK thread because people there wouldn't stop ribbing him about aliens building the pyramids idiocy? No i got banned for being a conspiracy theorist troll and couldn't be arsed to re-reg, but yeah they do rip me for that (deservedly) even though i never said aliens. I do believe in them though...
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Jan 4, 2014 00:27
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Larry_Mullet posted:No i got banned for being a conspiracy theorist troll and couldn't be arsed to re-reg, but yeah they do rip me for that (deservedly) even though i never said aliens. I do believe in them though... Hopefully it eases your mind to know that it's literally impossible to hide the spread of radiation from the Fukushima incident outside of the immediate area. Instruments can measure radiation, so unless you think that countless people are being silenced it isn't possible to keep something like that "under wraps." People in California are receiving far more radiation from the sun than they are Fukushima. There seems to be this idea that the radiation from a nuclear power plant and accidents like Fukushima is somehow uniquely dangerous and different from the radiation we receive from countless other things. It's sort of like if someone gave you a beer (and one that was tested and found to contain non-dangerous levels of alcohol), but you responded by saying "But do we really know it's safe??? Have you seen what happens if someone drinks a bottle of 91% isopropyl alcohol?" Except that example is actually overly generous; it would be more accurate if everyone was hooked up 24/7 to an IV drip that constantly injected negligible amounts of alcohol in our bloodstreams. There's no mystery here. The only thing TEPCO could conceivably hide is the levels of radiation within the Fukushima exclusion zone. Anything beyond that and you would have to think that there's a giant shadowy conspiracy silencing everyone who tries to measure radiation.
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Jan 4, 2014 00:46
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Its like that with the Health anti-fluoridation people; yes fluoride isn't good for you, but the amount in water is so low, that you'd die of water poisoning long before you had fluoride poisoning. And your body will flush away what little is in the water you drink. But, no go ahead, get rid of it, and invest in the local dentists because they'll be making bank on fillings. The funny thing is fluoridation plants don't just add it to the water supply, but in many cases take it away because fluoride is an ALL NATURAL* product that occurs in some places in unsafe amounts. *in the paranoid world of food woo that exists, literally people believe good for you = natural, bad for you = artificial. Even though a chemical, is a chemical is a chemical.
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Jan 4, 2014 01:31
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I gotta give it to the 9/11 truthers, but they've been out in front of the WTC Path train several times over the past few weeks (that I've seen), even during freezing cold weather and until at least 8 or 9 PM.
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Jan 4, 2014 01:40
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Cheekio posted:Considering how red zones crop up in weird places, I'd say the verdict as to the extent of Fukushima's radiation is still out. On the other hand, pretending mass die-offs are a new thing and they're all to blame for an accident literally half the planet away, well, that's being rather alarmist. This behaviour is exactly the problem that the scientific world has when an accident occurs, be it Chernobyl or 9/11. The map you supplied gives measurements of the radioactivity of the released Caesium-137 and the distribution of said activity. It is measured in Becquerel. One Becquerel is defined as one nucleic decay per second. The chart goes up to 1000 Becquerel per meter squared. 1000 Becquerel of Caesium-137 mean that each m^2 is contaminated by 0.31 nanograms of Caesium-137. In full text that is 0.00000000031 grams per square meter. In comparison, consider: One smoke detector creates around 30,000 Becquerel due to Americium An average Australian house has about 3 becquerel worth of Radon per square meter. One emergency exit sign made of tritium has about one million Becquerel. One 70Kg human produces about 7,000 combined Becquerel of various radioactive materials. To stop with the anecdotal evidence and give a Fukushima comparison, 5 days ago the groundwater bypass well reached 34 million Becquerel of tritium per square meter. And there are hundreds of people working around that area. I am not saying that the Chernobyl disaster was "nothing to worry about". It had a very serious effect in Ukraine and some neighbouring countries like Russia, Belarus, Romania and Bulgaria. We were also really lucky with it, as the radioactive materials mated with tons of sand kept around the reactor and produced a glass-like substance instead of melting all the way down and polluting the waterbed. We suffered, learned, adapted and improved. That's all that matters now. Sometimes, the only way forward is for something bad to happen. The whole world stop using wooden escalators because of King Cross fire. The reason why we still have some sanctions in place on things like farming is because we have learned from our mistakes and are not willing to take any chances whatsoever. The last thing the this world needs is technophobia, especially in the energy department. Germany has passed a law to shut down nuclear power plants due to public outcry after Fukushima. I repeat: LAYMEN are expressing their opinion on scientific matters and force law changes. If you ask me, we have to bomb Berlin once more. Baronjutter posted:That's interesting to know. I remember there was something special about actual elements released which made Chernobyl much worse than any other nuclear incident. You are probably referring to the Graphite moderator the reactor was using, instead of a heavy water one. When the lid exploded, graphite dust that was contaminated with radioactive materials spread with the winds.
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Jan 4, 2014 02:50
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twistedmentat posted:*in the paranoid world of food woo that exists, literally people believe good for you = natural, bad for you = artificial. Even though a chemical, is a chemical is a chemical. The natural/artificial thing is one of those terminology issues that made me actually value university level education simply because of the focus on definition of terms (in my case in Philosophy, which particularly gets off on that kind of thing). At it's root the good/bad values applied to those makes some sense, at it's heart it's getting concerned about eating new things versus things we've eaten for a long time. With more recently engineered things (like trans fats) we get things in our diet in very different amounts or stripped away from things we'd normally be having them with. The problem is the terminology used to convey these ideas isn't particularly accurate, like you said chemicals is chemicals and we've been altering the 'natural' foods around since before we figured out how to master the demon element Fire. It's another example of people latching onto an intuition without really examining it and instead getting deeply into pseudoscience, general assumptions and 'knowledge' taking that original unclearly defined intuition as axiomatic. At the same time there's something to be said for the intuition, eating highly processed foods solely can end up in missing out on some important micronutrients or getting doses of specific food elements (like transfats) that our bodies aren't really used to in those quantities. Hell we kind of got started on that poo poo back when sugar became widely available. The rational basis though seems to send a lot of people off into crazy land, especially when you throw in the lack of certainty in some areas just turns into people assuming they have carte blanche to believe anything.
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Jan 4, 2014 02:59
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And you come up with some crazy poo poo like "Doctors only want to keep you sick so they and big Pharma can make money off you" kinds of talk followed by "and buy my book about the secrets THEY don't want you to know". It doesn't help that the entire health food alternative medicine industry is designed to make you feel like a criminal for what you put in your and your family bodies. Don't give your children GMO Corn, it will turn them into flipper babies! If you're not drinking Wheatgrass juice on a daily basis you're murdering yourself!" And yes, there is poo poo that is really bad for you; i don't smoke or do any drugs, and barely drink, but I loving love pop. I know its bad for me, and I've cut way down (except over the holidays, because coke = christmas in my upper middleclass raised consumer brain), but I will not give it up entirely. Thing about that stuff is there is clear evidence and knowlage that says yes its bad for you, so cut down on it. Speaking of smoking, I know some super hard core level 15 super vegans who won't eat anything unless they are on first name with the farmer who pulled it from the dirt, but they smoke like chimneys. Tobacco is one of the most heavily modified crops in existence, and tobacco companies was way worse than Monsanto, not only in delivering a product that is nothing but harmful and their capitialism makes other companies save weapons look like amateur hour. But nope, they smoke because they're told not to, and because that's playing right into the medical-industrialist complex. Because a doctor, who gains no money by having you stop smoking is not to be listened to, but this guy online says that cancer is not caused by smoking but by tomatoes that were made from Monsanto seeds. Didn't you just say doctors want you to be sick? So why do they tell us to stop smoking, cut down on drinking and fast foods? Oh, reasons, good enough.
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Jan 4, 2014 05:19
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Most vegans I know (hipsters) smoke and drink and do blow all the time but will post on facebook about the need for natural foods to balance out our eco-systems and body systems and whatever. It is really weird. These are also the same people that weirdly buy into all the Fukushima conspiracies, which make no sense to me. If people in California are supposed to be deathly worried (or nearby, I'm in Arizona) then everyone in Japan has to be either dead or dying left or right. I guess either none of them thinks about that or don't care what happens to Japanese people.
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Jan 4, 2014 05:26
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My favorite is people who unironically stick to the mantra of "I don't eat it if it had ingredients I can't pronounce". How is that even a philosophy?
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Jan 4, 2014 05:32
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RagnarokAngel posted:My favorite is people who unironically stick to the mantra of "I don't eat it if it had ingredients I can't pronounce". How is that even a philosophy? Tell them that tomatoes have zeaxanthin in them.
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Jan 4, 2014 05:42
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Grouchy Smurf posted:To stop with the anecdotal evidence and give a Fukushima comparison, 5 days ago the groundwater bypass well reached 34 million Becquerel of tritium per square meter. And there are hundreds of people working around that area. Where are you getting your information about the subject? I was using the graph as an example of the complications wind currents have on fallout plume, not specific toxicity, as I've only heard conflicting reports about how bad the radiation escaping Fukushima was.
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Jan 4, 2014 06:02
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twistedmentat posted:And you come up with some crazy poo poo like "Doctors only want to keep you sick so they and big Pharma can make money off you" kinds of talk followed by "and buy my book about the secrets THEY don't want you to know". One of my all-time favorite conspiracy theorist nuts I used to argue with was convinced that a) vaccines were never beneficial; b) smallpox wasn't actually eradicated in the wild due to vaccination; and c) cancer didn't exist before vaccines created it. It was impressive. To briefly return to marine epidemics, they're actually depressingly common and can be super nasty. In the '80s some disease took less than a year to wipe out 95% of a extremely common species of sea urchin in the Caribbean. It came and went so fast that we have no idea what exactly caused it, but even still those urchins are pretty rare and losing them had major effects on the ecosystem. Suffice it to say that yes, the oceans are pretty well screwed and no, radiation probably isn't the prime suspect here.
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Jan 4, 2014 07:42
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twistedmentat posted:Tobacco is one of the most heavily modified crops in existence, and tobacco companies was way worse than Monsanto, not only in delivering a product that is nothing but harmful and their capitialism makes other companies save weapons look like amateur hour. But nope, they smoke because they're told not to, and because that's playing right into the medical-industrialist complex. Because a doctor, who gains no money by having you stop smoking is not to be listened to, but this guy online says that cancer is not caused by smoking but by tomatoes that were made from Monsanto seeds. On the other end of that I've got friends who stopped trying to cut down or give up smoking because they now smoke 'natural' tobacco, which apparently is free of chemical treatment and so reduces your risk of cancer. Apparently this is as good as cutting down on their smoking so they're being healthier. They're really hard pressed to explain exactly what these evil chemical treatments most companies use are but they're pretty confident it involves adding tar to the final product (I guess there could be a flavour thing?) I can kind of understand that they're addicts who have been taken in by a marketing scheme that saves them having to quit but it's still a pain that they think natural in this case means safe. Of course I shouldn't be too surprised in a couple of cases as they're also strong exponents of The Secret.
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Jan 4, 2014 15:03
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Cheekio posted:Where are you getting your information about the subject? I was using the graph as an example of the complications wind currents have on fallout plume, not specific toxicity, as I've only heard conflicting reports about how bad the radiation escaping Fukushima was. Directly form TEPCO.
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Jan 4, 2014 16:20
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Larry_Mullet posted:No i got banned for being a conspiracy theorist troll and couldn't be arsed to re-reg, but yeah they do rip me for that (deservedly) even though i never said aliens. I do believe in them though... What do you believe made the pyramids then? Have you read the Urantia Book? You sound like one of the idiots I knew who was duped by that garbage.
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Jan 4, 2014 17:14
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RagnarokAngel posted:My favorite is people who unironically stick to the mantra of "I don't eat it if it had ingredients I can't pronounce". How is that even a philosophy? In reality it should be I don't eat things with more than a few ingredients. When you see lets say a cupcake and it has more than some milk eggs and flour there is probably a problem.
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Jan 5, 2014 11:51
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Grouchy Smurf posted:The Chernobyl disaster was "special" due to the fact that it released great amounts of Strontium-90 isotope instead of the (way more volatile) caesium-137. Yeah, when I was little, my Dad had a background radiation/weather monitoring station on our roof for tracking Chernobyl fallout, part of a project set up by him and others at Newcastle Poly - I remember that being the major worry and reasoning behind it. There was a definite and long-term increase in gamma, but that was about it I think. Still, I got to entertain myself by wandering round the house with a geiger counter. The results should be at http://www.environment.org.uk/index.htm, but helpfully they've set the site up so that you can't access any data from pre-2000, when the project was actually running.
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Jan 5, 2014 16:28
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The_Rob posted:In reality it should be I don't eat things with more than a few ingredients. When you see lets say a cupcake and it has more than some milk eggs and flour there is probably a problem. No, this doesn't make sense.
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Jan 5, 2014 19:05
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Don't look into the ingredients in eggs or milk. They're full of so many weird sounding chemicals and a whole bunch of elements. People should just eat basic elements and avoid chemicals. The processing plants and animals do is disgusting, they take all these fairly simple basic chemicals and process the poo poo out of them (sometimes actually processing poo poo, GROSS) in these incredibly complex ways. Sometimes just a slight difference between one plant and another's processing can make the end result poisonous or really bad for you so why take the chance. I don't trust it, why do we need to process so much?
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Jan 5, 2014 19:31
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I'm surprised nobody mentioned this yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcQLxT49ZP0 A Youtuber goes around a San Francisco beach with a Geiger counter, which regularly 'alarms' as it hits >100 cpm. The argument there is that the radiation is several times what it should be for the environment, peaking at 150cpm. Here's the paper that basically told people to look for radiation in early 2014, if you're willing to pay for it. The paper itself mentions the radiation that makes it to the US's West Coast is in negligible quantities to humans in their simulations, and local officials responded similarly. If someone knows how to better describe how CPM relates to actual radiation levels, that would be awesome. edit: I only think this belongs in the Truther thread because conspiracy groups continue to argue the real extent of the disaster has been hushed in the media. It appears that even in the worst case scenario (a multi-organization conspiracy and a significantly larger amount of radioactive material dumped into the ocean), the dilutive effects of the largest body of water on the planet means the West Coast would still be safe. Pythagoras a trois fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 20:23
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Baronjutter posted:Don't look into the ingredients in eggs or milk. They're full of so many weird sounding chemicals and a whole bunch of elements. People should just eat basic elements and avoid chemicals. The processing plants and animals do is disgusting, they take all these fairly simple basic chemicals and process the poo poo out of them (sometimes actually processing poo poo, GROSS) in these incredibly complex ways. Sometimes just a slight difference between one plant and another's processing can make the end result poisonous or really bad for you so why take the chance. I don't trust it, why do we need to process so much? I breathe pure CO2, two elements no waiting. I'm on a cleanse bro.
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Jan 5, 2014 20:27
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I only eat foods with no more than two syllables in the name. Cupcakes are good for you, burgers are good for you, Caesar salad is bad. Boom.
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Jan 5, 2014 21:28
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Larry_Mullet posted:No I don't believe I did. I find it mildly annoying that just because someone explained to Miss-Bomarc He even brought in "you know this is true because nobody's talking about it", which is the kind of thing that they specifically tell you in Conspiracy Kook Class *not* to say because it broadcasts loud and clear that you're taking dication from the Red Lectroids. ps why do you refer to me as "she"? edit: As for "can't pronounce" I'm reminded of Neal Stephenson's "Zodiac", where the hero claims that the only drugs he uses are pure oxygen gas, because it only has two molecules; nitrous oxide gas, because it has only three; and pure ethanol, because it has only *eight* molecules. Anything more complicated than that is only going to cause trouble. (Except LSD, of course, because sometimes you just need something.) Miss-Bomarc fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 21:31
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twistedmentat posted:Tobacco is one of the most heavily modified crops in existence, and tobacco companies was way worse than Monsanto, not only in delivering a product that is nothing but harmful and their capitialism makes other companies save weapons look like amateur hour. Are you referring here to genetic modification? If so, do you know what strains? I'm aware of transgenic tobacco plants in an experimental context, but I hadn't realised they were in commercial cultivation.
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Jan 5, 2014 22:14
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1st AD posted:The worst ones are the architects for truth or whoever who claim that the WTC towers were filled with thermite or some other explosives and there was a timed demolition coinciding with the towers being struck. It would have been horrific and terrible amusing if after all that planning, the detonation occurred a few seconds before the planes struck.
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Jan 5, 2014 22:35
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Who What Now posted:I only eat foods with no more than two syllables in the name. Cupcakes are good for you, burgers are good for you, Caesar salad is bad. Boom. To be fair, Caesar salad is pretty damned caloric. A buddy of mine was wondering why he wasn't losing weight. He had replaced lunch and dinner with salads! Edit: Of course the real source of his weight-gain was the Morgellons. Crystal weighs a lot, so transforming into a silicon-based lifeform will make you heavier. Shbobdb fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 22:38
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Oh I love Morgellons panic. Its sad how these people could probably be helped, but they refuse to accept it because of paranoia. But I will laugh at some of their 'evidence', like the woman who would rub lemons on her hands and claim it caused worms to come out, and totally not pieces of lemon rind. The fact its paired with chemtrails is double hilarious.
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Jan 5, 2014 23:29
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twistedmentat posted:Oh I love Morgellons panic. Its sad how these people could probably be helped, but they refuse to accept it because of paranoia. That sounds like schizophrenia or some other schizoid disorder.
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Jan 6, 2014 00:04
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Miss-Bomarc posted:
The first name in your handle is Miss. 
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Jan 6, 2014 00:15
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This is the one my LooseChanj-Nein-Elephant-loving friend was trying to sell me on last night over drinks: http://www.bollyn.com/game-over-evidence-of-super-thermite-in-the-rubble Iron iron orbs ya'll
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Jan 6, 2014 00:40
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Sergg posted:That sounds like schizophrenia or some other schizoid disorder. Exactly. Many doctors and psychologists know exactly whats wrong, but they cannot treat it because the sufferers refuse their diagnosis because there's such a stigma against mental illness. It would be completely unethical to treat someone under false pretenses, they won't get help from doctors.
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Jan 6, 2014 02:23
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Morgellons is clearly a mental illness, but I don't see how calling CFS a potential mental illness is the height of kookery.
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Jan 6, 2014 02:41
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Sergg posted:That sounds like schizophrenia or some other schizoid disorder. Morgellons is another name for delusional parasitosis.
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Jan 6, 2014 02:46
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