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Oh yeah, the New 52 bullets thing was awesome. E the Shaggy posted:"Oh hey Cyborg, seems kind of cool. Where can I buy his book?" We're just going to test out the character by aggressively marketing him to your face but utterly failing to show you why you should care beyond "he fills two really convenient niches for us" (minority and tech-guy). See also the reason Steel failed to catch on in Morrison's JLA.
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Jan 6, 2014 00:45
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mind the walrus posted:Oh yeah, the New 52 bullets thing was awesome. To be fair to DC, I thought they did a good job of building interest and making me want to care about Cyborg, when they made him into the Worlds Number One Hero in Flashpoint.(Both the series and his Flashpoint Tie In series that for some reason was called World of Flashpoint: The Legion of Doom.) In fact I'd argue that's one of the few good things to come out of that crossover.
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Jan 6, 2014 01:20
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Did Steel really fail in that setting, though? He was on the B-team of JLAers that weren't The Big Guys but were still important members doing important stuff while the heavy hitters were busy stuffing Brainiac back into his recycle bin, I thought that worked out pretty well. Though if you're talking about his solo books that never made it very far, yeah, I see what you mean.
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Jan 6, 2014 01:22
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McSpanky posted:"Pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaase take Cyborg seriously as a JLA Big Seven member???" New 52 Cyborg joined the justice league as a sixteen year old kid who happened to have a useful body upgrade.
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Jan 6, 2014 01:40
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Chaltab posted:The thing is, Cyborg could be, with the right writer... except the New 52 has apparently removed all his history with the Titans (well aside from Titans being the name of his high school football team) and more importantly, his character arc. The Cyborg of the old universe, the thirty year old man who'd fought demon lords, assimilated into an extended family of superheroes, been a flying space-god-machine, lead the Teen Titans, etc? Yeah, he could theoretically cut it as a JLA member. To be fair, if you say "he was one of the first heroes to answer the call, when the JLA assembled for the first time to fight off an evil alien invasion", that does make him a JLA member and a founder. Yeah it's Grandfathering, but he's entitled to be a member of the big team. It's not like you can have Batman turn around and say "Look I know we are in a desperate fight for the safety of the world and we are in a lot of ways all untested. But frankly Victor, you need a couple years more experience before you can join the big guns."
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Jan 6, 2014 01:56
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Chaltab posted:The thing is, Cyborg could be, with the right writer... except the New 52 has apparently removed all his history with the Titans (well aside from Titans being the name of his high school football team) and more importantly, his character arc. The Cyborg of the old universe, the thirty year old man who'd fought demon lords, assimilated into an extended family of superheroes, been a flying space-god-machine, lead the Teen Titans, etc? Yeah, he could theoretically cut it as a JLA member. All a character needs to become relevant and interesting is to have an author who cares enough to make it so. Cyborg not being compelling at the moment has nothing to do with accumulated backstory. Not that any quality of headline book for him would sell anyway, but I'm kind of way into the idea of Cyborg and the Metal Men, so I hope they try  e: I guess this is thread relevant in how it's all a part of Geoff Johns JL run. I do think Cyborg fits on the team and I do care about the character presented at the moment. Johns isn't doing the worst job the Justice League's ever seen. I thought the Shazam! stuff was fantastic. His position in the company probably demands he spearheads the biggest book and events, but I don't think that's where he's best suited. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 02:02
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Adding to the N52 Cyborg chat, I just realized than he was the reason of Darkseid's defeat. He's also the only hero without a direct counterpart on the universes we've been shown. So yeah, Johns wasn't subtle about making Vic important. I still don't give a drat about him , though. I do find interesting than no one has seriously suggested making him closer to his cartoon counterpart like Starfire. For me it was odd to know comics Cyborg after seeing the cartoon. Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 02:29
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:So yeah, Johns wasn't subtle Geoff Johns: subtle he ain't 
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Jan 6, 2014 02:45
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Teenage Fansub posted:All a character needs to become relevant and interesting is to have an author who cares enough to make it so. Cyborg not being compelling at the moment has nothing to do with accumulated backstory. The problem is that Cyborg has like three decades across multiple reboots and various outside appearances (i.e. cartoons) of being a really loving boring character. It says a lot when the least boring he's ever been was a cartoon where he really didn't have much of a personality beyond a one-dimensional Slightly Goofy Black Guy Who Shouts "Aw yeah" deal.
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Jan 6, 2014 02:49
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Suben posted:The problem is that Cyborg has like three decades across multiple reboots and various outside appearances (i.e. cartoons) of being a really loving boring character. It says a lot when the least boring he's ever been was a cartoon where he really didn't have much of a personality beyond a one-dimensional Slightly Goofy Black Guy Who Shouts "Aw yeah" deal. I'd argue that he was more interesting on Superfriends. Granted, I don't remember too much about his role in that season, but I do remember him sulking over the fact that with all the heroes who have been on that show, he's the one who is physically unable to have a secret identity and has to live his life as a half-metal freak. He was basically the closest thing the show had to Ben Grimm.
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Jan 6, 2014 02:55
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Suben posted:The problem is that Cyborg has like three decades across multiple reboots and various outside appearances (i.e. cartoons) of being a really loving boring character. It says a lot when the least boring he's ever been was a cartoon where he really didn't have much of a personality beyond a one-dimensional Slightly Goofy Black Guy Who Shouts "Aw yeah" deal. Hey, that's not fair! He also shouted "Boo-yah!" a lot.
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Jan 6, 2014 02:56
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:he allowed a Yautja expy to return to its dimension even after butchering a scientist team 
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Jan 6, 2014 03:43
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I'd still say you can make an interesting character out of anyone. Have another British invasion. Anyone to discover at 2000AD these days?
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Jan 6, 2014 03:48
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Xenomrph posted:Wait what? This guy  Granted, I'm biased since I'm a big 'Predator' fan but I think the similarities are obvious.
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Jan 6, 2014 04:33
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I have to ask, why does Superman have digitized holes in his costume?
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Jan 6, 2014 04:37
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The not-Predator managed to damage the armor and that's how Jurgens choose to depict its self-repair function
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Jan 6, 2014 04:39
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:This guy Based on what look like question-marks in the alien's word bubbles, I'm going to assume it is saying,"Who are you? Where am I? Why are you hitting me? I just want to go home!  "
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Jan 6, 2014 04:41
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Jerusalem posted:Based on what look like question-marks in the alien's word bubbles, I'm going to assume it is saying,"Who are you? Where am I? Why are you hitting me? I just want to go home!  
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Jan 6, 2014 05:01
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Ha, under the mask it looks like the JCVD predator
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Jan 6, 2014 05:07
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Or is it Sputnik posted:A friend of mine used the phrase "Johnsian literalism" about the Rogues in Flash. Captain Cold's dad beat him when he cried, so his heart went cold. His grandfather drove an ice truck and he used to buy Cold ice cream. Cold, ice cold. Snow. Cold. Cold. "Get this, guys: Mirror Master snorts cocaine--wait for it--off a *mirror*."
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Jan 6, 2014 07:31
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Awwww man, Superman you big jerk 
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Jan 6, 2014 09:14
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DoctorDelaware posted:"Get this, guys: Mirror Master snorts cocaine--wait for it--off a *mirror*." The best part of Countdown wasn't Mary Marvel using Kyle Rayner as a club, it was Mirror Master using his powers to steal lines of coke off people's mirrors.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:22
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DoctorDelaware posted:"Get this, guys: Mirror Master snorts cocaine--wait for it--off a *mirror*." Didn't Grant Morrison first write Mirror Master II as a cokehead in Animal Man or JLA? I could have sworn that was an older characterization from him.
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Jan 7, 2014 05:10
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:Didn't Grant Morrison first write Mirror Master II as a cokehead in Animal Man or JLA? I could have sworn that was an older characterization from him. Pretty sure that doesn't show up in JLA. I've only read that run of Animal Man once, but I don't remember it being there either.
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Jan 7, 2014 08:35
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Johns totally invented the coke thing. Morrison riffed on it a li'l bit in Final Crisis, but that's it.
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Jan 7, 2014 11:59
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I stand corrected!
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Jan 8, 2014 06:00
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Time for more bitching The whole thing than Venditti's setting up on the lanterns books while could be a good story for someone less jaded is just a drag for me. The reservoir idea is loving stupid, he destroyed all the character development for Hal and he's writing him like an idiot rear end in a top hat than can't do nothing right and worse yet he just wrote another loving 'shattering the status quo' story. Can't we just have a nice breather arc before we enter on more 'everything's hosed up and the heroes are useless' bullshit?
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Jan 9, 2014 19:31
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It's weird how dull I'm finding Green Lantern when the other books, New Gardians and Red Lanterns (dunno about GLC, and I'm assuming are Larfleeze is still entertaining. Gotta catch up on that) have totally picked up in the creative team shuffle and are really vibrant and fun. I'm into most of the stuff GL put in place too: The new Smurfs, using Mogo as the homeworld, but it's just presented so flat in that particular title, and with the most uninteresting art possible.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:53
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:
This is a bad thing thing because?
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Jan 9, 2014 22:04
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Madkal posted:This is a bad thing thing because? Because Hal is my second favorite hero and while seeing than he's an utter wreck outside the suit it was also inspirating to me you know? If an utter failure as human being can still do the right thing and soar higher than anyone and become true hero everyone can do it too, my self included  Is corny and kind of dumb but that's why I like superheroes on the first place, but then seeing this bleak story where using the Emotional Specter is harmful to the universe, Hal being utterly wrong about everything and digging himself deeper is quite the shock. I'm tired of this endless events, plus the fact than I walked out from the story with the notion of 'everything's hosed up son and things will only got worse' and well what's the point?
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Jan 9, 2014 22:13
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Hal Jordan pretty much is an idiot rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 10, 2014 01:00
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The whole Green Arrow/Green Lantern run is all about how wrong Hal is most of the time. Also that time he killed a poo poo load of Lanterns.
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Jan 10, 2014 01:05
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bobkatt013 posted:The whole Green Arrow/Green Lantern run is all about how wrong Hal is most of the time. Also that time he killed a poo poo load of Lanterns. Aside of those story arcs being more than a decade old, he grew as character and learned from those experiencies. He also demostrated being a decent leader during the 'war of light trilogy'. While he was also a failure when he was at Sinestro's whims he mellowed out and showed an iron will during the First Lantern business. Suddenly having him punked with hit to the head and being even more useless than the guardians is pretty jarring and dissapointing.
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Jan 10, 2014 02:05
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Aside of those story arcs being more than a decade old, he grew as character and learned from those experiencies. He also demostrated being a decent leader during the 'war of light trilogy'. No, that's pretty much accurate to how Hal Jordan should be. Hal Jordan only became The Best Man Ever when Geoff Johns got his hands on him. Prior to that he was a good hero who hosed up a lot and was often carried through bad situations through the power of his ring or sheer luck and who was defined by being fearless. (Where "Fearless" is both a good and bad thing as opposed to just a good thing.) Hal Jordan being constantly right or the Best Ever or basically anything detracts from what actually makes him interesting.
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Jan 10, 2014 02:10
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ImpAtom posted:No, that's pretty much accurate to how Hal Jordan should be. Hal Jordan only became The Best Man Ever when Geoff Johns got his hands on him. Prior to that he was a good hero who hosed up a lot and was often carried through bad situations through the power of his ring or sheer luck and who was defined by being fearless. (Where "Fearless" is both a good and bad thing as opposed to just a good thing.) Hal Jordan being constantly right or the Best Ever or basically anything detracts from what actually makes him interesting. It depends on your perspective I guess, silver age Hal was an static character and more than Johns making him 'perfect' he worked to made him grow through experience. That's my main beef with Venditti's take, he's writing Silver Age Hal ignoring all the experiences and stories that came in between, the fact that only Hal suffers from this (you an argue than Stewart is the perfect lantern now) is just rubbing salt on the wound.
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Jan 10, 2014 04:15
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Stewart has been drug through enough poo poo over the past twenty-plus years that he deserves to be "guy that is probably right" for a while. Hal has been presented as Space Jesus long enough that it's time for someone to remember that he's actually a huge rear end in a top hat (Johns ignored this at least as much as he had Hal overcome it, by outright retconning many of Hal's most egregious prior failings and thus escaping any accrued accountability which Hal should have had to deal with) Suben posted:The problem is that Cyborg has like three decades across multiple reboots and various outside appearances (i.e. cartoons) of being a really loving boring character. It says a lot when the least boring he's ever been was a cartoon where he really didn't have much of a personality beyond a one-dimensional Slightly Goofy Black Guy Who Shouts "Aw yeah" deal. The issue with Cyborg is that it's very clear what his niche should be - Cyberpunk Superhero - but DC has never gotten a writer in place who really knows how to play with that. It wasn't a thing yet when Cyborg was created, so Wolfman wasn't going to set anything up, and it hasn't happened since then. There is no hero better positioned to explore that genre/subgenre, short of outright androids or robots. Cyberpunk should be Cyborg's thing. Cyberpunk's themes should be the themes of Cyborg's stories. Cyberpunk's issues should be the issues Cyborg confronts. There is a pretty clear direction to take the character, and I can imagine a writer who is more adept with using technology and sci-fi pseudoscience in their work - Morrison, or Warren Ellis, or any number of Young Guns - doing really interesting things there. Someone who is better than average at writing characters with super-intellect could, likewise, do interesting things. But DC has always been kinda bad about getting their non-Batman super-intellect heroes to shine. Anyway Johns' "beep boop look how I can download these files! I wish my dad could see me downloadin' these files..." take certainly doesn't help matters. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Jan 10, 2014 |
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Jan 10, 2014 05:19
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PupsOfWar posted:Stewart has been drug through enough poo poo over the past twenty-plus years that he deserves to be "guy that is probably right" for a while. Yeah if Warren Ellis got his hands on him it could be amazing, but he is a cape
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Jan 10, 2014 05:21
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PupsOfWar posted:Stewart has been drug through enough poo poo over the past twenty-plus years that he deserves to be "guy that is probably right" for a while. 'Space Jesus? What are you talking about? With the retconnin I'm assuming you're talking about the Parallax thing, there's two reason on why I think it was worth it: it gave us a great payoff (and introduced a lot of new characters) with the 'War of Light', Hal still took responsability on his actions and continuosly he keep trying to mend them during the first two years after his return (He actually let it go after the SCW)
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Jan 10, 2014 17:02
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:'Space Jesus? What are you talking about? Look man, I actually liked GL up until Rise of the Third Army (which is way past when a lot of people had written it off) but if you don't see Hal as Space Jesus in the GL #20 finale then I don't know what to tell you. He raises himself from the dead with a black ring which makes no loving sense, basically uses Nekron (who was previously an uncontrollable force and who literally tells Hal that he won't be controlled before backing down because Hal I don't even begrudge you for liking the story, but I don't see how you can deny that Hal is written as the uber-Lantern, totally overshadowing all others, during it. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jan 10, 2014 |
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Jan 10, 2014 18:40
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TwoPair posted:Look man, I actually liked GL up until Rise of the Third Army (which is way past when a lot of people had written it off) but if you don't see Hal as Space Jesus in the GL #20 finale then I don't know what to tell you. He raises himself from the dead with a black ring which makes no loving sense, basically uses Nekron (who was previously an uncontrollable force and who literally tells Hal that he won't be controlled before backing down because Hal You made a lot of valid points, I never gave them too much thought since I chalked to the classic 'the heroes have an miraclous comeback and win' and the inconsistencies about the Black Ring to the reboot.
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Jan 10, 2014 22:45
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