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BottledBodhisvata posted:Alcohol prohibition, to my knowledge, actually ended by juries refusing to prosecute or declare guilty anyone charged with it. Vox populii or whatever. Then it became an amendment. But I am pretty sure it started with juries, which is what the creator the Wire suggested we do with drug crimes. Juries nowadays are instructed heavily on how to determine guilt exactly to the letter of the law and case precedent, I don't think that poo poo will fly now.
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Jan 5, 2014 08:25
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So I was as doing some research the other day and stumbled across this gem:quote:There’s one problem with legalizing, taxing and regulating cannabis at the state level: It can’t be done. The federal Controlled Substances Act makes it a felony to grow or sell cannabis. California can repeal its own marijuana laws, leaving enforcement to the feds. But it can’t legalize a federal felony. Therefore, any grower or seller paying California taxes on marijuana sales or filing pot-related California regulatory paperwork would be confessing, in writing, to multiple federal crimes. And that won’t happen… It turns out the man who wrote those words last year billed Washington State nearly a million dollars for consultancy fees about how to sell cannabis. I wonder if they will regret that. edit: At least we know that some drug warriors can be bought. KingEup fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 10:37
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In case anyone missed this HuffPo article:Huffington Post posted:
Link Also, I love how countries are okay with major banks like HSBC providing money laundering for drug-trafficking cartels (Oopsie! Better give the bank a slap-on-the-wrist fine and ask them to apologize!) but legitimate, legal cannabis business owners continue to get shafted and intimidated by the DEA and the Feds with raids, refusing bank accounts, etc. poo poo, when was the last time a bank's property got seized for drug-related asset forfeiture? Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 11:52
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EightBit posted:Juries nowadays are instructed heavily on how to determine guilt exactly to the letter of the law and case precedent, I don't think that poo poo will fly now. Not to mention that most cases simply don't go to trial. Unreasonable penalties are used to leverage still excessive pleas - undermines the 6th amendment in my opinion.
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Jan 5, 2014 15:23
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EightBit posted:Juries nowadays are instructed heavily on how to determine guilt exactly to the letter of the law and case precedent, I don't think that poo poo will fly now. Jury nullification still works, there are some drug war activists pushing for it. For example: http://www.flexyourrights.org/jury-nullification-drug-war-demise/
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Jan 5, 2014 16:57
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Could Colorado set up a state bank that would be an institution the industry could deposit their money in, outside of the relevant federal regulations? I know North Dakota has a state bank and their deposits are not guaranteed by the FDIC, rather the general fund and the state's taxpayers. They are also the only state with a state bank.
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Jan 5, 2014 19:17
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I doubt it, various federal agencies have cracked the heads of any bank or potential bank that has even thought about doing business with any marijuana businesses. There was a well financed startup that was going to be a medical marijuana credit union here in Colorado like two years ago and the DOJ threatened to keep them litigated "in perpetuity" so it was scrapped. Given what a piece of poo poo Hickenlooper is I doubt any bold ideas are coming at the state level any time soon. But if Jared Polis was governor...
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Jan 5, 2014 19:59
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Where would the federal government prosecute marijuana shop owners/workers if they decided to go ahead and raid all these businesses? If they do it in the state that has legalized marijuana, wouldn't that be most likely ground for jury nullification to happen?
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Jan 5, 2014 21:47
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Vira posted:Where would the federal government prosecute marijuana shop owners/workers if they decided to go ahead and raid all these businesses? If they do it in the state that has legalized marijuana, wouldn't that be most likely ground for jury nullification to happen? Please stop pinning your hopes on jury nullification. Especially considering the process to pick jurors.
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Jan 5, 2014 21:53
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Pryor on Fire posted:I doubt it, various federal agencies have cracked the heads of any bank or potential bank that has even thought about doing business with any marijuana businesses. There was a well financed startup that was going to be a medical marijuana credit union here in Colorado like two years ago and the DOJ threatened to keep them litigated "in perpetuity" so it was scrapped. The DoJ is explicitly working with the Colorado governor's office on exactly this issue. I would expect to see cannabis businesses able to use some sort of banking within a year, honestly.
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Jan 5, 2014 21:58
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Jazerus posted:The DoJ is explicitly working with the Colorado governor's office on exactly this issue. I would expect to see cannabis businesses able to use some sort of banking within a year, honestly. This. I can't find the article right now but the DOJ has told Colorado and banks to expect a "yellow light and additional guidance" for banks in dealing with marijuana businesses. I suspect this is already happening in some form already because like I said earlier, the dispensary I went to happily accepted Visa and MasterCard.
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Jan 5, 2014 22:19
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Huh looks like you're right, I hadn't heard of this before: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/19/marijuana-banking_n_4474749.html
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Jan 6, 2014 02:25
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It looks like Andrew Cuomo is planning to launch medical marijuana in New York by executive order. There's some political discussion in the article, but as best I can see, it boils down to: a governor should support something supported by 82% of his constituents when up for reelection.
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Jan 6, 2014 04:19
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 Colorado is almost out of legal weed
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Jan 6, 2014 05:26
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mintskoal posted:This. I can't find the article right now but the DOJ has told Colorado and banks to expect a "yellow light and additional guidance" for banks in dealing with marijuana businesses. There's a good chance they're paying exorbitant fees to use an overseas processing company, such as in Bermuda or the Cayman Islands, similar to what a lot of other "high risk" businesses like escort agencies do.
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Jan 6, 2014 05:54
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Is there any realistic chance that an East Coast state legalizes it by this time next year or so, considering they're running out of weed and making millions a day? If this belongs in a different drug war thread, sorry.
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Jan 6, 2014 15:35
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cargo cult posted:Is there any realistic chance that an East Coast state legalizes it by this time next year or so, considering they're running out of weed and making millions a day? If this belongs in a different drug war thread, sorry. Medical marijuana is going to be up and running in Massachusetts next year. e: This year. Cue Garfield-caliber joke about how I'm still writing 2013 on all my checks!!! Tezzor fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 15:51
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cargo cult posted:Is there any realistic chance that an East Coast state legalizes it by this time next year or so, considering they're running out of weed and making millions a day? If this belongs in a different drug war thread, sorry. The only state I can see period is Oregon.
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Jan 6, 2014 15:55
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NY State is slowly coming around, it will most likely go the Medical->Retail route unfortunately, so I don't expect anything happening soon. Also just because another state, say Oregon, legalizes, doesn't mean that CO will be able to legally import. There is still a long way to go until we get some interstate commerce wrt legal weed.
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Jan 6, 2014 16:02
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cargo cult posted:Is there any realistic chance that an East Coast state legalizes it by this time next year or so, considering they're running out of weed and making millions a day? If this belongs in a different drug war thread, sorry. Rhode Island has a lot of momentum. They decriminalized in 2012 and also opened up medical dispensaries that year as well (having had medical for a number of years without dispensaries). In the 2013 legislative session they debated a legalization bill for the third or fourth year, and while it had a lot of support, it was never brought to vote. I used to work marijuana policy in RI, in 2010 and 2011 the decrim bill was killed by not allowing it to come to vote (despite having enough sponsors that it would have passed even if no one else voted for it). If the same pattern is followed I would expect the tax and regulate bill to pass within the next few years. It could easily happen in 2014 if only good news comes out of CO. A lot rides on the perceived outcomes for CO. In the discussion of decrim attention was heavily focused on MA, which had just decriminalized.
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Jan 6, 2014 16:27
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Here in DC the city council is almost certainly going to vote to decriminalize it (it's pointless) - there's also a legalization bill but it's not likely to go anywhere. I've been talking to folks around here trying to get folks interested in making it an election year issue for the upcoming Mayoral bloodbath.
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Jan 6, 2014 16:38
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Florida is working on getting medical marijuana on the 2014 ballot by petition, and it looks like we'll get enough signatures and then some. It looks like there are arguments about the wording of the proposed bill so I don't know how likely it is (please let it happen so I don't have to keep finding it for my father).
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Jan 6, 2014 16:43
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Something tells me weed is going to be the next gold rush of sorts with that kind of money being made so quickly and supply running out so fast.  [e]: Not to mention weed getting more votes than Obama in Colorado. Obama: Pot legalization not good economic strategy seems awfully silly in retrospect. 
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Jan 6, 2014 17:00
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TheRamblingSoul posted:Something tells me weed is going to be the next gold rush of sorts with that kind of money being made so quickly and supply running out so fast. It'll be really interesting to see how the legal weed production market develops. With alcohol, all the major post-prohibition distributors were pre-prohibition distrubutors who essentially went legal, but the state level/federal level split is doing weird things -- keeping out the big production and preserving an incentive to remain illicit for fear of later federal reprisal.
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Jan 6, 2014 17:04
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So what I don't understand is that one of the first issues on the usa.gov website was federal weed legalization, and Obama addressed it personally, but he just completely dismissed it, he even implied that it was nothing but a bunch of unemployed young people who were in favor of it. And now we are going to have multiple states decriminalizing it, and a good number are going to be legalizing it in the next few years. Just goes to show that when it comes to issues that aren't of interest to lobbyists, the people don't matter.
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Jan 6, 2014 17:11
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It'll be really interesting to see how the legal weed production market develops. With alcohol, all the major post-prohibition distributors were pre-prohibition distrubutors who essentially went legal, but the state level/federal level split is doing weird things -- keeping out the big production and preserving an incentive to remain illicit for fear of later federal reprisal. I wonder if that will have a long term impact with consumer preferences being slanted towards small-scale craft weed vs large-scale weed producers, for example?
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Jan 6, 2014 17:12
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Powercrazy posted:NY State is slowly coming around, it will most likely go the Medical->Retail route unfortunately, so I don't expect anything happening soon. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/05/us/new-york-medical-marijuana/ Apparently it will be "limited and cumbersome," woo! It is being done via executive order since apparently it would be quite difficult to get any sort of bill through the legislature, so it makes sense that it's starting small. If you're already single-handedly making a federal crime 'legal' in your state with no one else to blame for potential failures, you probably won't want to make it a free-for-all right away. quote:Under [Governor] Cuomo's directive, the state health department would take charge by setting up the guidelines and picking hospitals that would take part. These hospitals would then have panels of people who decide, on a person-by-person basis, which patients qualify for medical marijuana.
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Jan 6, 2014 17:12
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TheRamblingSoul posted:I wonder if that will have a long term impact with consumer preferences being slanted towards small-scale craft weed vs large-scale weed producers, for example? If it's legalized federally there will be a blitz from manufacturers the likes of which you won't believe. Wine is the closest to what you're imagining and even that has lovely $10 boxed versions and $20 mass produced versions.
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Jan 6, 2014 17:17
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TheRamblingSoul posted:Something tells me weed is going to be the next gold rush of sorts with that kind of money being made so quickly and supply running out so fast. If we're making this much money with weed, imagine how it would be if they made METH legal. Hm, although, maybe not so much, more people certainly smoke pot than meth.
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Jan 6, 2014 17:46
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You can grow low quality weed outside with little energy investment: you can't make meth of any quality without a decent amount of heat, enough to where police can accurately target cooks by looking for excessive energy use.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:15
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The real driving forrce behind all of this is when the tax money numbers start getting rolled out. Dear god, I couldn't even begin to imagine how much money the state of colorado made this week.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:24
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Full Battle Rattle posted:The real driving forrce behind all of this is when the tax money numbers start getting rolled out. Dear god, I couldn't even begin to imagine how much money the state of colorado made this week. This. This so hard. Once CO releases a budget that shows all the money weed brought them, every state with a budget problem will be racing to legalize it.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:28
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superjew posted:Florida is working on getting medical marijuana on the 2014 ballot by petition, and it looks like we'll get enough signatures and then some. It looks like there are arguments about the wording of the proposed bill so I don't know how likely it is (please let it happen so I don't have to keep finding it for my father). My understanding is the wording is problematic because it basically legalizes it for everyone. Is that correct? Sounds good to me. Our attorney general sucks. Pretty much every old person I know in South Florida is a pothead. I have no idea what's keeping it out of our state.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:29
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WampaLord posted:This. This so hard. Once CO releases a budget that shows all the money weed brought them, every state with a budget problem will be racing to legalize it. On the other hand, every crime committed by anyone in Colorado with weed in their system will be blown into an Epidemic of Reefer Violence on cable news. That's what I'm worried about.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:32
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WampaLord posted:This. This so hard. Once CO releases a budget that shows all the money weed brought them, every state with a budget problem will be racing to legalize it. The largest benefit probably won't ever be reported - that is, having a lot fewer people in jail.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:38
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computer parts posted:The largest benefit probably won't ever be reported - that is, having a lot fewer people in jail. If our prisons weren't overwhelmingly privatized we'd probably have access to the data on exactly how much money that saves the state. Welp!
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Jan 6, 2014 18:41
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WampaLord posted:If our prisons weren't overwhelmingly privatized we'd probably have access to the data on exactly how much money that saves the state. There should honestly be a constitutional amendment preventing this sort of thing. "There shall not be the establishment of any prison, jail, detention center or holding station to the benefit of a single private interest."
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Jan 6, 2014 19:34
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As for the east coast, the answer for the next few years is no. There's not enough support among politicians here or out west to pass marijuana legalization through the state legislature. WA and CO did it by popular referendum initiated by signature collection, but, we can't force those here. As it stands now though with NY coming into the fold, every state in the north-east has both medical and decriminalized marijuana except New Hampshire.(only medical. So much for live free or die)
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Jan 6, 2014 19:38
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Keep in mind though, there's medical marijuana and then "medical" marijuana. Many Northeast states stick strictly to medical and really will only get you a card if you're due to be dead in 12 months or things like that. No "yeah i feel kind of bad sometimes and I have $40" stuff in those states.
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Jan 6, 2014 19:43
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Anyone keep up to date with Nevada? What are my chances of smoking legal weed within 3 years?
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